Stuck in Grad School

[jiujitsuchick]

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I am currently a Grad student (still in my first year) and I my dream and goal is to go to medical school. I graduated from with my BS in three years and didn't have the oppertunity to apply to medical school for this fall, so I got some late applications into some grad schools because its something I wanted to try. (I also had some aspirations to do the MD/PhD thing) But so far I really really don't like grad school. What is the general consensus on leaving grad school after potentially being accepted to medical school? I am going to finish out this year for sure but I don't know if I could do the full three that they require for a Masters degree. I am in need of some advice... 😕

 

[OSUdoc08]

I am currently a Grad student (still in my first year) and I my dream and goal is to go to medical school. I graduated from with my BS in three years and didn't have the oppertunity to apply to medical school for this fall, so I got some late applications into some grad schools because its something I wanted to try. (I also had some aspirations to do the MD/PhD thing) But so far I really really don't like grad school. What is the general consensus on leaving grad school after potentially being accepted to medical school? I am going to finish out this year for sure but I don't know if I could do the full three that they require for a Masters degree. I am in need of some advice... 😕

I've been told that admissions committees look down upon people dropping out of graduate programs.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've been told that admissions committees look down upon people dropping out of graduate programs.

Bailing from grad school for another path certainly doesn't bode well for one's odds of actually completing professional school. But like all hurdles, it can be overcome with good credentials and the right spin.

 

[Caligirl98]

I am currently a Grad student (still in my first year) and I my dream and goal is to go to medical school. I graduated from with my BS in three years and didn't have the oppertunity to apply to medical school for this fall, so I got some late applications into some grad schools because its something I wanted to try. (I also had some aspirations to do the MD/PhD thing) But so far I really really don't like grad school. What is the general consensus on leaving grad school after potentially being accepted to medical school? I am going to finish out this year for sure but I don't know if I could do the full three that they require for a Masters degree. I am in need of some advice... 😕

I'm not exactly sure what the "general consensus" on leaving grad school is but I can tell you my experience with it. I was in my first year of graduate school also when I decided that I really wanted to go to medical school. At the time though I wanted to make sure that medical school was the right decision for me and that I was not just rushing into it because I was not happy in graduate school. I ended up staying in graduate school for a total of three years. Since I had passed my qualifying exam I was able to do a voluntary withdrawal from the program I was in and receive a Master's degree. I also did not have a lot of clinical experience at the time so by staying in graduate school two years longer I was able to gain a significant number of hours volunteering at a hospital. I am applying this application cycle and have been on two interviews so far. I have gotten asked how I "changed my mind" and decided to go to medical school but no one has asked me too many specific questions about why I left graduate school.

I do know that there are several schools that once you are accepted require you to finish any degree granting program before you can matriculate. I was able to avoid this by applying after I had left graduate school so the decision as to whether I was going to finish my Ph.D. or not had already been made by the time I submitted my AMCAS. As to your specific situation, have you already taken the MCAT? Do you feel like you have enough clinical experience? If you have, then I would suggest applying after you have left graduate school so that you don't get caught in the situation I mentioned above. If you haven't though why not stay in graduate school and get your master's degree while you are taking care of the MCAT and clinical experience? (or any other thing that you might need for your application) In my opinion having your master's degree can only help your application and if you are going to have to take at least another year to get everything for your application to medical school together then having your master's degree is just another thing you can add to it. Are you at a school that also offers a MD/PhD program? If you are, you also may be able to talk to the director of that program about the possibility of applying to be a part of that program if that is something you are interested in.

I hope this information helps you and I would be happy to answer any other questions you may have.

 

[NapeSpikes]

I am currently a Grad student (still in my first year) and I my dream and goal is to go to medical school. I graduated from with my BS in three years and didn't have the oppertunity to apply to medical school for this fall, so I got some late applications into some grad schools because its something I wanted to try. (I also had some aspirations to do the MD/PhD thing) But so far I really really don't like grad school. What is the general consensus on leaving grad school after potentially being accepted to medical school? I am going to finish out this year for sure but I don't know if I could do the full three that they require for a Masters degree. I am in need of some advice... 😕

Nothing productive to add, but I just have to say, nice screen name. 🙂

 

[deuist]

Generally, leaving graduate school for the sake of medical school is looked down upon. Wake Forest even requires a letter from your adviser stating that you'll be finished with your degree by the time you matriculate. If you dislike school this much, you can always opt for a non-thesis masters (if your program offers it), and be done in a year.

 

[jiujitsuchick]

Generally, leaving graduate school for the sake of medical school is looked down upon. Wake Forest even requires a letter from your adviser stating that you'll be finished with your degree by the time you matriculate. If you dislike school this much, you can always opt for a non-thesis masters (if your program offers it), and be done in a year.

To All:
Unfortunatly I got stuck in a program that required not only a thesis but also requires that you get published before you can graduate. 😡 There are no other options than this. The other problem I am running into is that they are giving me so much busy work that I can't do other things I enjoy (such as volunteering). They also do not allow you (by contract) to have a job, including a volunteering position that has set hours for fear that it will take away from your preformance in the lab. I feel stuck in grad school with no way to better my odds for medical school. *sigh*

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Just remember that grad. school is most always a useful place to be.

 

[jiujitsuchick]

My situation is that I want to finish my MS program (graduate in May of 2007) but applied this year hoping to defer a year if accepted. It works out well because my MS degree is in counseling and I log lots of hours counseling clients, so I get lots of patient contact which is good for med school while at the same time finishing my MS degree.

At my interview they really didn't ask too many questions about this. Once accepted, I am going to beg for a deferral in order to complete my degree.

Do we know what the odds of them deferring entry are? I plan on doing something of the same thing. I will start this application process this summer, and if accepted I plan on deferring for one year. (I was told to plan on a Spring 2008 graduation.) Just wondering if you have heard of anyone having success with this sort of request.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Do we know what the odds of them deferring entry are? I plan on doing something of the same thing. I will start this application process this summer, and if accepted I plan on deferring for one year. (I was told to plan on a Spring 2008 graduation.) Just wondering if you have heard of anyone having success with this sort of request.

It depends on the school but most allow it (although they won't admit this beforehand). Usually it takes a letter from both you and your advisor. I know many who have done it but school don't seem to like to advertise that they will do this.

 

[deuist]

To All:
Unfortunatly I got stuck in a program that required not only a thesis but also requires that you get published before you can graduate. 😡 There are no other options than this. The other problem I am running into is that they are giving me so much busy work that I can't do other things I enjoy (such as volunteering). They also do not allow you (by contract) to have a job, including a volunteering position that has set hours for fear that it will take away from your preformance in the lab. I feel stuck in grad school with no way to better my odds for medical school. *sigh*

Use a vanity published journal. Volunteer, but don't tell your advisor. And challenge the legality of the contract. Tell them that you misunderstood the meaning of the work involved. The contract then becomes null. I'm sure that Law2Doc will probably object right about here, but feel free to give a big "screw you" to your boss. I did (in a passive aggressive sort of way); and it felt great.

 

[Pewl]

I'm currently in a phd program but i decided just to finish the master's and leave. It takes 2 years to finish the master's, and I gotta take the comprehensive exam this spring. If I were you I would just finish the master's at least. It will look good both on your application and for residency.

 

[Beau Geste]

Use a vanity published journal. Volunteer, but don't tell your advisor. And challenge the legality of the contract. Tell them that you misunderstood the meaning of the work involved. The contract then becomes null. I'm sure that Law2Doc will probably object right about here, but feel free to give a big "screw you" to your boss. I did (in a passive aggressive sort of way); and it felt great.

That doesn't always fly. And, if there is a stipend involved, it could mean having to pay it back.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I am currently a Grad student (still in my first year) and I my dream and goal is to go to medical school. I graduated from with my BS in three years and didn't have the oppertunity to apply to medical school for this fall, so I got some late applications into some grad schools because its something I wanted to try. (I also had some aspirations to do the MD/PhD thing) But so far I really really don't like grad school. What is the general consensus on leaving grad school after potentially being accepted to medical school? I am going to finish out this year for sure but I don't know if I could do the full three that they require for a Masters degree. I am in need of some advice... 😕

You have to be careful. I personally know two people who tried this and they were unsuccessful (One is now in a pharmD program and one is a nurse practitioner - both great careers inthemselves). There's nothing more damaging to a professional application than the appearance of a previous commitment not being honored. It may be easier to drop out of grad school (ask yourself if you would still finish if you could not get into medical school; that will tell you a lot) and work while applying to medical school. That said, a few people on this board have successfully dropped out of graduate school and gained medical school admission. Good luck with your decison.

 

[BooMed]

To All:
Unfortunatly I got stuck in a program that required not only a thesis but also requires that you get published before you can graduate. 😡 There are no other options than this. The other problem I am running into is that they are giving me so much busy work that I can't do other things I enjoy (such as volunteering). They also do not allow you (by contract) to have a job, including a volunteering position that has set hours for fear that it will take away from your preformance in the lab. I feel stuck in grad school with no way to better my odds for medical school. *sigh*

I'm sorry jiujitsuchick, what a crappy situation. 🙁 I can't believe thay can keep you from volunteering... that's nuts. Do you have summers off?

 

[Caligirl98]

To All:
Unfortunatly I got stuck in a program that required not only a thesis but also requires that you get published before you can graduate. 😡 There are no other options than this. The other problem I am running into is that they are giving me so much busy work that I can't do other things I enjoy (such as volunteering). They also do not allow you (by contract) to have a job, including a volunteering position that has set hours for fear that it will take away from your preformance in the lab. I feel stuck in grad school with no way to better my odds for medical school. *sigh*

What about talking to your graduate thesis advisor about your plans to apply to medical school? Maybe if you explain that you are interested in finishing your Master's but would also like to apply to medical school so that you can start once you are finished with your Master's he or she may be ok with you going to volunteer once a week as long as you are keeping up with your lab work. If your advisor is aware of your plans too they also will probably be able to write you an awesome letter of recommendation for med school, something again that can only help your application.

 

[jiujitsuchick]

I'm sorry jiujitsuchick, what a crappy situation. 🙁 I can't believe thay can keep you from volunteering... that's nuts. Do you have summers off?

No summers off... does any grad program let you have summers off? I want into that one...

 

[blondMD]

I am in a 2 years MS program at Seton Hall, in North Jersey. Not the most prestigious school, but they are good to me, and they have connections with UMDNJ.

May advice...transfer. If you don't want to transfer, then quit wasting your time on SDN and get some experiements done. I still have to write my thesis too, yes it sucks but if you sulk about it, it will never get done.

PS- Last year, a first year MS student applied to med school, b/c they saw she wasn't going to complete her degree, she didnt get an interview. I'm not sure what her GPA was, but MCAT was 31.

 

[Boner]

I am currently a Grad student (still in my first year) and I my dream and goal is to go to medical school. I graduated from with my BS in three years and didn't have the oppertunity to apply to medical school for this fall, so I got some late applications into some grad schools because its something I wanted to try. (I also had some aspirations to do the MD/PhD thing) But so far I really really don't like grad school. What is the general consensus on leaving grad school after potentially being accepted to medical school? I am going to finish out this year for sure but I don't know if I could do the full three that they require for a Masters degree. I am in need of some advice... 😕

I'm kind of in the same boat as jiujitsuchick; I got to grad school and found my interests were actually clinically oriented rather than research/lab oriented. My advisors have noticed this as well and I have withdrawn from my program to pursue medical school admission. I'll be applying next cycle as my final decision had only been made over winter break. I talked to an admissions counselor at one medical school, the one where I happen to attend grad school, and they said that someone who realizes that medical school is what they really want to do should do everything they can to show that they are committed to medicine. In my case, I have gotten a job as an orderly in a surgical center to boost my clinical exposure. Furthermore, they said a great personal statement for AMCAS would involve explaining your situation. Lastly, they hinted that getting out early with really good grades in grad school shows that you're not just cutting and running, rather, you did well and made a thoughtful and mature decision to pursue medicine. Also, getting out early will prevent your department from wasting more money and investing more time in you. Imagine how happy your advisor would be if you quit while knee deep in your thesis research.

 

[CADreaming06]

I'm sorry jiujitsuchick, what a crappy situation. 🙁 I can't believe thay can keep you from volunteering... that's nuts. Do you have summers off?

Wow, I am really surprised that they don't want you to volunteer. The happiest and healthiest grad students in my program always had outside interests. Actually, I"m a PhD student that is applying to med school this year (I should complete my PhD this summer). My advisor actually told me to go volunteer at a local hospital even though she knows it takes 8 hours of my week (patient contact is essentual for the md application, and i think even more so if you are switching careers). Good luck, feel free to PM me if you want.

 

[jiujitsuchick]

Wow, I am really surprised that they don't want you to volunteer. The happiest and healthiest grad students in my program always had outside interests. Actually, I"m a PhD student that is applying to med school this year (I should complete my PhD this summer). My advisor actually told me to go volunteer at a local hospital even though she knows it takes 8 hours of my week (patient contact is essentual for the md application, and i think even more so if you are switching careers). Good luck, feel free to PM me if you want.

After talking to my advisor recently I found out that they want me completely "submerged" in this program. They even felt it was necessary to tell me that I shouldn't be going home (to my hometown) as often as I would like and that I should stick around, regardless if there is work for me to do. I feel like a rat in a cage. Based on all the advice I have been getting I think I'll stick it out and try and make the best of it. (*sigh*) 😳

 

[deuist]

Jeez, what kind of program is this?

 

[ghostchild]

I hope this doesn't get too far off topic but did you guys apply to med schools right after your undergraduate degree or just to the grad schools and are finding out that it's not right for you. If you've previously applied to med schools I think that shows even further commitment and grad school was always your "back-up" plan.

And I've just always been curious but does anybody know what % of med school students have graduate degrees? Do most students get in w/out the masters or PhD?

 

[deuist]

The vast majority of medical students do not have graduate degrees. In my class of 180 people, only 7 have masters and two have doctorates. I even met one person in the second year class without a bachelors. He had lots of credits and applied without finishing his degree.

 

[DeadorAlive]

After talking to my advisor recently I found out that they want me completely "submerged" in this program. They even felt it was necessary to tell me that I shouldn't be going home (to my hometown) as often as I would like and that I should stick around, regardless if there is work for me to do. I feel like a rat in a cage. Based on all the advice I have been getting I think I'll stick it out and try and make the best of it. (*sigh*) 😳

By "grad school" did you mean prison? Are you in a special program that's more than just school? Are they throwing tons of money at you? I can't see normal graduate education operating this way... yes you're expected to put in a ton of time and work but no one can tell you where to go and what to do when you DO have free time....

 

[tigress]

Okay, everybody who says it's very looked down upon, check out my profile. Everybody always says that dropping out of grad school looks horrible. Well, it certainly doesn't look great, of course. But I happen to know a number of doctors who dropped out of grad school. I HATED being in my PhD program (the program itself was great; I just found out I couldn't stand the thought of actually being a scientist). I left grad school after my FIRST SEMESTER. Well, part-way into my second semester, actually, but they managed to remove all second semester courses from my transcript. And you know what? I got plenty of interviews and so far 3 acceptances and a waitlist (I'm waiting on another decision, to come in 2 weeks, and I'm hopeful for an acceptance). Grad school wasn't even brought up in all of my interviews! I addressed it briefly in my personal statement and moved on. It was probably held against me at some of the more prestigious schools, like Pitt and Penn and Emory, but I've still gotten into some good schools.

After leaving grad school last February I studied for and took the April MCAT and applied this past summer. I had a certain amount of clinical experience, but not a ton; I'm now working in a clinical job, which was something to discuss on interviews. Before I dropped out I met a woman who had dropped out of grad school after first semester and is now Chief of her ER. I also know a few other doctors who have done it.

Bottom line: it's completely doable. Don't stay somewhere if you're miserable. BUT you need to have good numbers, and some good ECs, to make it happen. And you need to address the whole issue succinctly, and not apologetically, in your application. I didn't stay any longer in grad school because an MS wasn't really an option in my program (except by default if you fail your prelim exam), and besides, I dreaded going in each day and I couldn't see myself doing that for any longer.

I have not regretted my decision for one day. In my current job I see patients, and every day I realize how wrong research was for me and how right medicine is. Interestingly, two other people dropped out of the same program (we started with 15) after I did; like I said, the program is great, but a life of research really takes a certain kind of person, and people aren't always aware of how it will fit until they get there. Above all, don't feel like you have to apologize to adcoms. It's your life, and you should do what works for you.

edit: sorry if the beginning of this post sounds harsh/defensive; it's a touchy subject, certainly very personal for me!

 

[Beau Geste]

Okay, everybody who says it's very looked down upon, check out my profile. Everybody always says that dropping out of grad school looks horrible. Well, it certainly doesn't look great, of course. But I happen to know a number of doctors who dropped out of grad school. I HATED being in my PhD program (the program itself was great; I just found out I couldn't stand the thought of actually being a scientist). I left grad school after my FIRST SEMESTER. Well, part-way into my second semester, actually, but they managed to remove all second semester courses from my transcript. And you know what? I got plenty of interviews and so far 3 acceptances and a waitlist (I'm waiting on another decision, to come in 2 weeks, and I'm hopeful for an acceptance). Grad school wasn't even brought up in all of my interviews! I addressed it briefly in my personal statement and moved on. It was probably held against me at some of the more prestigious schools, like Pitt and Penn and Emory, but I've still gotten into some good schools.

After leaving grad school last February I studied for and took the April MCAT and applied this past summer. I had a certain amount of clinical experience, but not a ton; I'm now working in a clinical job, which was something to discuss on interviews. Before I dropped out I met a woman who had dropped out of grad school after first semester and is now Chief of her ER. I also know a few other doctors who have done it.

Bottom line: it's completely doable. Don't stay somewhere if you're miserable. BUT you need to have good numbers, and some good ECs, to make it happen. And you need to address the whole issue succinctly, and not apologetically, in your application. I didn't stay any longer in grad school because an MS wasn't really an option in my program (except by default if you fail your prelim exam), and besides, I dreaded going in each day and I couldn't see myself doing that for any longer.

I have not regretted my decision for one day. In my current job I see patients, and every day I realize how wrong research was for me and how right medicine is. Interestingly, two other people dropped out of the same program (we started with 15) after I did; like I said, the program is great, but a life of research really takes a certain kind of person, and people aren't always aware of how it will fit until they get there. Above all, don't feel like you have to apologize to adcoms. It's your life, and you should do what works for you.

edit: sorry if the beginning of this post sounds harsh/defensive; it's a touchy subject, certainly very personal for me!

That is exactly how I feel and very precise. There are a lot of people that use these forums that have opinions on how adcoms behave based on their friends or rumors or how they themselves feel. You won't know for sure until you try, and damn the naysayers.

 

[jiujitsuchick]

I hope this doesn't get too far off topic but did you guys apply to med schools right after your undergraduate degree or just to the grad schools and are finding out that it's not right for you. If you've previously applied to med schools I think that shows even further commitment and grad school was always your "back-up" plan.

And I've just always been curious but does anybody know what % of med school students have graduate degrees? Do most students get in w/out the masters or PhD?

I just applied to the grad school because I didn't have time for the med school application process. Then when I found out my program was a three year program I had to wait another year. I told them medical school was my first choice but I think they forgot I said that...

 

[nimotsu]

If it's a technical degree like Masters in chemistry, then might as well finish it up. Some schools I applied to will not honor your app if you drop out off another prog and you have to wait a year to then apply. I was also in the same position to graduate in three years, but my parents told me to stay four years. I also had an interest in grad school but research experience quickly solved that problem (chem grad school looked very boring and unexciting).

Sorry to hear you're stuck in the dark side. I heard the first year of grad school is the worst because you have to TA and do all this other crap if that's any help. Make sure to follow your dreams because you're still young and don't want to regret later on, but I think you're ultimately going to have to figure out the logistics. However, I think it's doable to drop out if you wanted as long as you could prove that you now have the maturity to know medicine is for you.

 

[tigress]

If it's a technical degree like Masters in chemistry, then might as well finish it up. Some schools I applied to will not honor your app if you drop out off another prog and you have to wait a year to then apply. I was also in the same position to graduate in three years, but my parents told me to stay four years. I also had an interest in grad school but research experience quickly solved that problem (chem grad school looked very boring and unexciting).

Sorry to hear you're stuck in the dark side. I heard the first year of grad school is the worst because you have to TA and do all this other crap if that's any help. Make sure to follow your dreams because you're still young and don't want to regret later on, but I think you're ultimately going to have to figure out the logistics. However, I think it's doable to drop out if you wanted as long as you could prove that you now have the maturity to know medicine is for you.

These are some good points (especially the last one about maturity). Also, I wanted to say that I had plenty of research experience pre-grad school, but it was somehow completely different when I got to the point where research would be for my foreseeable future, rather than just a summer or a semester, and the scope of my own involvement was bigger. In addition, in my grad program we never had to TA, and I actually enjoyed the coursework, so I knew it was only going to get worse as time went on 😛

good luck to the OP with whatever you decide

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I applied to medical school two years ago, didn't get in, then went into a chemistry master's program (it was very, very hard, and required lots of pushing against the administration, plus they refused to give me a stipend!), and reapplied, and have been getting great interviews and a great acceptance. I'm applying MD/PhD.

If you have a strong interest in research but want medical school as well, you might consider MD/PhD. If that's the case, you have to complete the master's and hopefully get published. If you just was want to be a clinician, I suggest dropping out right away and getting highly involved in plenty of clinical things - job, volunteering, nights, weekends, international projects, etc. - you will have to convince the ADCOMS that it is not the burden of grad/professional school per se that made you drop out, but that you are actually interested in clinical medicine as a career.

 

[Gut Shot]

I just applied to the grad school because I didn't have time for the med school application process.

Big mistake. Awful. Horrible. Huge. I know because I made the same one. It's actually not quite that simple, but suffice to say I found myself mired in a PhD program with dreams of medical school. Unfortunately for myself, I was in that trap where I was too far along to drop out "safely", but still had years of work left to do. I finished and went to med school, but it cost me years of my life I won't get back.

Then when I found out my program was a three year program I had to wait another year. I told them medical school was my first choice but I think they forgot I said that...

I doubt they've forgotten, but they have their priorities: squeezing cheap labor out of you.

Look, if you really hate grad school, and wanted to attend med school all along, then quit. The sooner the better. Despite what some of the other folks on this thread have been saying, quitting grad school after a semester doesn't really say much about your (in)ability to complete a program. It does say that you hated the program enough to drop out with great speed, but that's about it. I would be much more concerned if you had quit multiple programs, or were 2+ years into it and wanted to throw in the towel.

One of the other grad students in my program (entered about 3 years below me) lasted about 4 months. He told us he hated it, he was quitting, going home and getting an MPH while pursuing medical school. He'll graduate in May with his MD. Bully for him, since he figured out what he wanted and charted a successful course to obtain it.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[docbill]

Ahhh yeahhh grad school... it is funny that way. It has a way of taking those serious about graduate degrees and humiliating them, hurting them and breaking them down.

Just imagine what it does to people who are not serious about it and just entered the program because they had no time to fill out another program application.

 

[Gut Shot]

Just imagine what it does to people who are not serious about it and just entered the program because they had no time to fill out another program application.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Ahhh yeahhh grad school... it is funny that way. It has a way of taking those serious about graduate degrees and humiliating them, hurting them and breaking them down.

Just imagine what it does to people who are not serious about it and just entered the program because they had no time to fill out another program application.

You must have had a totally different experience in graduate school from myself and everyone else I know. Sure, you work HARD but you pretty much set your own work hours (unlike medicine where you have no control of your time whatsoever). Plus you get paid in graduate school and you’re pretty much treated like a colleague! What a privilege.

 

[dr.z]

You must have had a totally different experience in graduate school from myself and everyone else I know. Sure, you work HARD but you pretty much set your own work hours (unlike medicine where you have no control of your time whatsoever). Plus you get paid in graduate school and you’re pretty much treated like a colleague! What a privilege.

I guess its different at every school. I don't think I was ever treated like a colleague.

 

[deuist]

I was never treated like a colleague, either. I heard that a few years ago, my advisor used to make immigrant students act as his secretary---taking calls, keeping up the calendar, and sometimes he would make them come over to his house to cook for his family! Eventually an American student threw a fit and got it all changed.

 

[Hoberto]

You must have had a totally different experience in graduate school from myself and everyone else I know. Sure, you work HARD but you pretty much set your own work hours (unlike medicine where you have no control of your time whatsoever). Plus you get paid in graduate school and you’re pretty much treated like a colleague! What a privilege.

Holy crap! I need to transfer to your school!

My sig sums up my experience.

 

[docbill]

You must have had a totally different experience in graduate school from myself and everyone else I know. Sure, you work HARD but you pretty much set your own work hours (unlike medicine where you have no control of your time whatsoever). Plus you get paid in graduate school and you’re pretty much treated like a colleague! What a privilege.

Well... you are one lucky Chap that is for sure. Maybe the "English Accent" helped. No for sure, some are treated well, some are not.

I will give you a brief summary of what happened.

My Masters project was good, but the prof was a ba$**** and totally minipulative. I had to leave, like other masters students in this lab, on bad terms. We forced him to sign the papers so we can graduate. Actually the chair forcing him to do it.

My PhD degree started at another institution and that went terribly wrong. The ADHD with some people in research was rediculous. They backstabed, lied, made up stuff, just to make people look bad with the prof. After 1 year and a half, and little data to keep me motivated. I walked out. Thinking that is the end of that.. and no more research ever. Too many bad experiences.

But...

Yes there is a but.

I did not want to give up. SO I was looking at new places to re-start a PhD. Just to see if it is possible. I had my own funding so that made it easier. Normally PhD student leaving one place, is like a hooker trying to get married and be a born again virgin. Not the easiest thing to do.

Because of my funding, I was offered many positions, and chose the one I am at now. Prob the most competitive location and project you can get. Now after over 3 years here and going to graduate this summer I can finally say I earned my stripes. Here, my prof is very respectful and treated me more like a fellow then a student. Actually, at this stage of the game, I more or less run a section of the lab. I supervise some students and get to decide what I do freely. But let me make it clear. It was hard to earn that position. Even now. I work 70-80 hours a week. I am on various committees at the University and nationally.

And.. have grown much thicker skin. Actually I would say that I am NOW an A$$hole and that is why things worked out. "Knock on wood"

 

[Scottish Chap]

Well... you are one lucky Chap that is for sure. Maybe the "English Accent" helped. No for sure, some are treated well, some are not.

I will give you a brief summary of what happened.

My Masters project was good, but the prof was a ba$**** and totally minipulative. I had to leave, like other masters students in this lab, on bad terms. We forced him to sign the papers so we can graduate. Actually the chair forcing him to do it.

My PhD degree started at another institution and that went terribly wrong. The ADHD with some people in research was rediculous. They backstabed, lied, made up stuff, just to make people look bad with the prof. After 1 year and a half, and little data to keep me motivated. I walked out. Thinking that is the end of that.. and no more research ever. Too many bad experiences.

But...

Yes there is a but.

I did not want to give up. SO I was looking at new places to re-start a PhD. Just to see if it is possible. I had my own funding so that made it easier. Normally PhD student leaving one place, is like a hooker trying to get married and be a born again virgin. Not the easiest thing to do.

Because of my funding, I was offered many positions, and chose the one I am at now. Prob the most competitive location and project you can get. Now after over 3 years here and going to graduate this summer I can finally say I earned my stripes. Here, my prof is very respectful and treated me more like a fellow then a student. Actually, at this stage of the game, I more or less run a section of the lab. I supervise some students and get to decide what I do freely. But let me make it clear. It was hard to earn that position. Even now. I work 70-80 hours a week. I am on various committees at the University and nationally.

And.. have grown much thicker skin. Actually I would say that I am NOW an A$$hole and that is why things worked out. "Knock on wood"

Sounds like it made you stronger and less prone to bitterness. I averaged 65+ hr work weeks - sometimes longer. My advisor left two years into the project and I could not go with him so I had to finish alone. It was tough, but a great experience nonetheless. It's all about perpective, IMHO. Medical school is pretty much the same way, I suppose....

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Terminal MS programs in the social sciences are great.

You take a set amount of classes, do a few internships, and then research your thesis on your own with some input from your advisor. 2 short years and 1 summer. You don't have to deal with all the politics of a PhD, takes much shorter, and still gives you a relatively painless MS degree.

 

[jiujitsuchick]

By "grad school" did you mean prison? Are you in a special program that's more than just school? Are they throwing tons of money at you? I can't see normal graduate education operating this way... yes you're expected to put in a ton of time and work but no one can tell you where to go and what to do when you DO have free time....

The are actually "throwing" some money at me. They are covering my tuition (nice for a private school) but the cost of living where I am makes the already small salary seem even smaller.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

If it's a technical degree like Masters in chemistry, then might as well finish it up. Some schools I applied to will not honor your app if you drop out off another prog and you have to wait a year to then apply. I was also in the same position to graduate in three years, but my parents told me to stay four years. I also had an interest in grad school but research experience quickly solved that problem (chem grad school looked very boring and unexciting).

so true

 

[C.P. Jones]

wow, how did i miss this thread....looks like my decision has been made....stickin' to my job

 

[SigPi]

to the OP:

It is my humble belief that if you know something is not for you, then stop. If you are actually going to apply to medical school then be prepared to back this up with legit reasons and experiences that led you to the conclusion that medical school, not grad school, is where you belong.

I'm sure you know this, but let me remind you. THIS KIND OF DECISION TAKES BALLS (or the female equiv. if thats who you are). If you drop out, you'll prob need to skip an app cycle (depending on when you drop) to pad your application with activities and even a job that shows you have a real interest and committment to medicine.

I myself was a similar situation. I began a PharmD program right out of undergrad...knew it wasnt for me from the first week...I finished the semester with A's in every class to prove i could do the work and withdrew after semester 1. By doing this i saved at least another $10,000 in tuition, got a job in the hospital and started volunteering where i could. took the MCAT and applied that summer. was unsuccessful that first time. I honestly think i needed some more time to get some more experience in medicine to prove that i was a committed applicant. During the fall and spring of the unsuccessful app cycle i switched over to a research lab with the local med school, volunteered for their cover-the-uninsured week committe, got my EMT-B (which the school paid for btw, i'm sure many other places would too) and tried to stay connected and outwardly interested in any way i could.

This cycle i have 3 shots and 3 kills....applied to 3 schools i liked and was accepted to all 3. What was the difference between this year and last? More research, more healthcare volunteering, more clinical work and an all around more interesting and committed application.

One of my interviewers brought up the fact that i had dropped out of pharmacy school. I gave him my reasons and explained why it wasnt for me and the mistake i made. He seemed very interested and after i finished he says, "I understand what you mean, I really do. I myself was once in pharmacy school." and then he went on to tell me his story...it was a strong part of the interview and I think i stood out in a POSITIVE way because I recognized my mistake, called myself on it, changed my direction, and PROVED this is what i wanted to do through my actions...and could explain all this in an interview situation --which was key.

Sorry for this being so long. I just don't like it when people feel trapped. It is a lonely and empty, ****ty feeling --I've been there and now in 4 years i will be what i know i've always wanted to be...an MD. life is to damn short to be doing something you hate --even for "3 short years". So my 2cents is follow your gut and do what you think will make you happy in the end

Good luck man, i feel your pain

 

[Chouster]

Word to what SigPi said. I was a first year PhD student when I realized that I also wanted to study medicine. I don't know what your take on an MD/PhD program is, but I successfully applied and gained acceptance to the MSTP program at my school (I still want to do research later on; I only applied to my school's program). I did well in all my classes, worked my ass of in lab (and am still doing so), and put every last ounce of energy into writing a killer PS and AMCAS application. This may be something you want to do if you have a strong interest in research still. This requires that a) your school has an MD/PhD or MSTP program, b) graduate students are eligibile to apply, and c) you have the support of your future thesis mentor because by the time the next app cycle rolls around, you should have already chosen one. The great thing about this option is that you won't be stepping on anyone's toes. If anything, your department should be happy for you if you "upgrade" yourself from a PhD to MD/PhD program at the same school. Just another option if the three points mentioned apply to your school.

In some regards, I was very lucky but the take-home point is if you realize you don't like where you are, then pursue what you want to do. No point in wasting precious years studying something you know is not going to be part of your future career. In your case, you're not too far in so the sooner you started actively pursuing a career in medicine the better. Once you start your thesis work, then you've pretty much committed yourself to see graduate school through to the end. Dropping out once you've begun your thesis is going to be looked down upon by adcoms, and definitely worse than if you bail during the first two years or so when you're still taking classes and such. Good luck jiujitsuchick... I feel for you! I really do!

 

[relentless11]

Word to what SigPi said. I was a first year PhD student when I realized that I also wanted to study medicine. I don't know what your take on an MD/PhD program is, but I successfully applied and gained acceptance to the MSTP program at my schoolQUOTE]

Wow, finally someone who went in this route. I've been wondering if it was possible to go into an MSTP if you are currently a PhD student. I've been waiving this question around at my school, and they haven't been too clear on if this is possible or not. Anyway glad to see it worked somewhere. Now if only my school can give me a solid answer 🙄

But yea, grad school can be really fun, or really crappy. Either way, its a lot of work. 😉 I lucked out, worked with my PI as an undergrad, so we get along quite well. Thats the most important thing I learned though....was finding the right PI, and the right research, otherwise it will be a miserable graduate life.
My pre-med advisors here have stated that skipping out of the grad program is not something good in the eyes of the adcoms. I asked our director of admissions the other day about wanting to apply to med school, and he reiterated that I "should" do that after completing my PhD. So at least here, it is not a myth, or legend. The adcoms expect that one has a very good idea about what they are getting themselves into. THis is why they expect people to have some amount of clinical experience. Of course like many things there are exceptions....but i don't htink there are many.

 

[Gut Shot]

Wow, finally someone who went in this route. I've been wondering if it was possible to go into an MSTP if you are currently a PhD student.

It's possible, but highly unlikely. After 6 years in grad school and 4 in med school I have met my fair share of MD/PhD, and I've only met two who have pulled off the PhD -> MD/PhD switch. One of those cases probably involved more than a little nepotism. So yeah, it's certainly possible, but not a basket I'd be dumping all my eggs into.

 

[Chouster]

It's possible, but highly unlikely. After 6 years in grad school and 4 in med school I have met my fair share of MD/PhD, and I've only met two who have pulled off the PhD -> MD/PhD switch. One of those cases probably involved more than a little nepotism. So yeah, it's certainly possible, but not a basket I'd be dumping all my eggs into.

Yea, there were some obstacles along the way that could have deterred me from applying. Some people were saying that I should finish the PhD before going to MD, but it's something I knew I wanted to do and granted that my window of opportunity was still open, I took the chance. Havarti666 is right, though, in that this is a rare occurrence. Given the level of competition for Michigan's MSTP, I was fully prepared to receive my rejection letter (and frankly, expecting it), but thankfully someone up there loves me and has given me a chance. So jiujitsuchick, if you do decide to take this route, I hope you find a mentor who rekindles your passion for research and who you get along with very well, because graduate school is a great experience if you find both of those. And should you apply to your MSTP and not get in (which I hope will be an acceptance in your case) the alternative of PhD then MD won't seem like a bad alternative at all. I am lucky in that I've found an awesome PI who is an amazing geneticist and a very easy person to get along with, so had I not gotten in, the in-series alternative would've been fine with me. Good luck!

Relentless: What kind of vague answer have they been giving you? It seems whether graduate students are eligibile for MSTP programs or not is a very straightforward yes-or-no type question. Michigan is very well known for its organization and clarity on its rules, so that definitely made things easier for me.

 

[CADreaming06]

Yea, there were some obstacles along the way that could have deterred me from applying. Some people were saying that I should finish the PhD before going to MD, but it's something I knew I wanted to do and granted that my window of opportunity was still open, I took the chance. Havarti666 is right, though, in that this is a rare occurrence. Given the level of competition for Michigan's MSTP, I was fully prepared to receive my rejection letter (and frankly, expecting it), but thankfully someone up there loves me and has given me a chance. So jiujitsuchick, if you do decide to take this route, I hope you find a mentor who rekindles your passion for research and who you get along with very well, because graduate school is a great experience if you find both of those. And should you apply to your MSTP and not get in (which I hope will be an acceptance in your case) the alternative of PhD then MD won't seem like a bad alternative at all. I am lucky in that I've found an awesome PI who is an amazing geneticist and a very easy person to get along with, so had I not gotten in, the in-series alternative would've been fine with me. Good luck!

Relentless: What kind of vague answer have they been giving you? It seems whether graduate students are eligibile for MSTP programs or not is a very straightforward yes-or-no type question. Michigan is very well known for its organization so that definitely made things easier for me.

Wow I am really surprised that you were able to do this, mainly because of funding issues between the MSTP programs and the regular graduate programs. At my school, plenty of PhD's decide to move into medicine. If early, they are encouraged to leave the program and apply to med school or MSTP, if later they finish up their PhD and apply to med school (my route). And, most of us aren't able to gain acceptance at our own institution. When I spoke to my director re. the inabilty to move from the PhD to MSTP, he really made it sound like it was funding. Did you have to withdraw from your PhD program before you were admitted?