Successful NIH IRTA applicant is taking your questions!

[philosonista]

Hi, all. I'm currently holding offers from PI's at the NIH through the IRTA post-baccalaureate program.

It's been interesting and confusing navigating the process.

Give me your questions about the program if you have any! I'm doing a problem set on the last leg of finals week and looking for some fun.

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[philosonista]

WTF is the IRTA program you ask? A one or two year program for recent college grads during which you work for a PI at the NIH while preparing/applying to professional and/or graduate school.

https://www.training.nih.gov/programs/postbac_irta

 

[Lost in Translation]

Do you get off on knowing you've accomplished a feat that some can only dream of?

 

[philosonista]

Do you get off on knowing you've accomplished a feat that some can only dream of?

Thanks for that. You know, I would have appreciated having a thread like this when I was working on my application. I scoured the SDN threads on the program when I was applying, but did not find much.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Unless there's some secret formula that you've stumbled upon to be able to succeed in the application process for this program, I don't see the point of this thread.

 

[philosonista]

Unless there's some secret formula that you've stumbled upon to be able to succeed in the application process for this program, I don't see the point of this thread.

I would have loved to have asked someone when you should start contacting PI's. I did it way too early and wasted my time. I really wish I had known how long I should ask a PI to wait for my decision before searching for another possible hire. I have more interviews that are scheduled after when other PI's are expecting to hear back from me about their offer, and I regret that my choices of PI's were superficially cut off because of it. I could go on with more questions.

You are making ASSumptions. Go you!

If anyone has any actual questions into the future, I get email updates for each reply.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

I haven't been involved with IRTA, but maybe I'll help my kids set this up a few decades down the line. Any tips on posturing for this while in UG?

 

[philosonista]

I haven't been involved with IRTA, but maybe I'll help my kids set this up a few decades down the line. Any tips on posturing for this while in UG?

Are you f-ing with me or you actually are concerned about the possible IRTA positions of your kids??????

Obviously, the usual things apply: good grades, good LOR's, good research experience. 10% of applicants succeed at getting a position, so the competition is no joke.

Then there are some other things that are not entirely obvious and many small logistical things worth noting that I'm not sure would hold decades down the line, so......

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

Are you f-ing with me or you actually are concerned about the possible IRTA positions of your kids??????

Obviously, the usual things apply: good grades, good LOR's, good research experience. 10% of applicants succeed at getting a position, so the competition is no joke.

Then there are some other things that are not entirely obvious and many small logistical things worth noting that I'm not sure would hold decades down the line, so......

Im serious. What's wrong with a little bit of preparation and foresight?

 

[NotaCop]

I turned down an IRTA position to work in clinical research at a private company (mostly for geographical reasons), did I screw up big time?

 

[philosonista]

I turned down an IRTA position to work in clinical research at a private company (mostly for geographical reasons), did I screw up big time?

Don't know. Haven't even gotten there yet. And of course my experience would hardly be representative. But you're likely making better money. Haha!

 

[NotaCop]

Don't know. Haven't even gotten there yet. And of course my experience would hardly be representative. But you're likely making better money. Haha!

Yeah true that hahah. I did the SIP but I just never realized the IRTA was so prestigious. Good luck to you in yours

 

[steelersfan1243]

I turned down an IRTA position to work in clinical research at a private company (mostly for geographical reasons), did I screw up big time?

Hmm, so current IRTA. Let it be known, that being a NIH Postbac Fellow is really not that great and something to marvel over. Its the same research job that you can get at any academic institution with the same pay or go into industry to pretty much double your salary. Getting a position isn't hard either, its more of a applying at the right time. PI fill their open spots quick, but if you happen to apply once a lab has an opening, you'll most likely get the position. The only cool thing about it most labs understand you're applying to medical or grad school, so taking days off for interviews, studying for MCAT, or finishing applications is perfectly acceptable.

 

[steelersfan1243]

My question is what's the value of NIH IRTA when everyone on the interview trail at Top 20's comes from the exact same program and has one more thing that fails to distinguish them from the rest of the applicant pool?

Serious question because that's my main deterrent from NIH IRTA - friends who are applying this cycle say EVERYONE who has been interviewing with them has been from this program.

It is true I have yet to go on an interview where I did not meet another IRTA, but it really is just a paid research position thats really convenient for a gap year. Schools will see it nothing more than just a year of research, the NIH name won't be dropping jaws

 

[Lucca]

When is a good time to start emailing PIs for IRTA? Is there a big difference between IRTA and a post bacc research fellowship at another institution also sponsored by the NIH like the NIH PREP programs? (Other than the obvious of being somewhere other than the NIH)

 

[ImmunoLove]

Unless there's some secret formula that you've stumbled upon to be able to succeed in the application process for this program, I don't see the point of this thread.

I think it might come in handy for those who have questions. Also, I believe the NIH postbac is the largest postbac program in the country (or one of the largest, if memory serves me right. Source: friend who went through it, so admittedly not something I know or care to confirm).

 

[steelersfan1243]

Is March or April too late to be looking into the program? I might apply but want to wait on other options.

So if you have strong research experience, a good GPA, and not gunning for any specific lab, you'll be fine applying in March or April. I applied in June and was offered positions within two weeks of my application being completed.

When is a good time to start emailing PIs for IRTA? Is there a big difference between IRTA and a post bacc research fellowship at another institution also sponsored by the NIH like the NIH PREP programs? (Other than the obvious of being somewhere other than the NIH)

I would say January is a good time to have your full application in. Meaning cover letter, three letters of rec, and resume. You can start emailing PIs as soon as you can if their research does interest you, they'll know by now whether they would be able to afford a postbac for this upcoming year. If you have your application completed though, you'll be entered into a database where PIs who you may not know search through to find future postbacs for their lab. Most people I met got the job through here.

On the difference between NIH PREP and this NIH, again I doubt there is any difference. All in all both are research years.

I think it might come in handy for those who have questions. Also, I believe the NIH postbac is the largest postbac program in the country (or one of the largest, if memory serves me right. Source: friend who went through it, so admittedly not something I know or care to confirm).

So just to clarify the NIH Postbac program is not your typical postbac, you're not taking classes (unless you elect to) to increase your GPA, its really just doing research. So to compare its size with other postbac programs doesnt really make sense

 

[ImmunoLove]

So if you have strong research experience, a good GPA, and not gunning for any specific lab, you'll be fine applying in March or April. I applied in June and was offered positions within two weeks of my application being completed.

I would say January is a good time to have your full application in. Meaning cover letter, three letters of rec, and resume. You can start emailing PIs as soon as you can if their research does interest you, they'll know by now whether they would be able to afford a postbac for this upcoming year. If you have your application completed though, you'll be entered into a database where PIs who you may not know search through to find a future postbac if they want one. Most people I met got the job through here.

On the difference between NIH PREP and this NIH, again I doubt there is any difference. All in all both are research years.

So just to clarify the NIH Postbac program is not your typical postbac, your not taking classes (unless you elect to) to increase your GPA, its really just doing research. So to compare its size with other postbac programs doesnt really make sense

I agree with the size comparison caveat...

 

[Noctámbulo]

Are you entered into the database only after all LORs are in?

EDIT:
More questions: When did you first begin emailing PI's, and how long did it take you to secure an offer?

Thanks for doing this!

 

[steelersfan1243]

Are you entered into the database only after all LORs are in?

EDIT:
More questions: When did you first begin emailing PI's, and how long did it take you to secure an offer?

Thanks for doing this!

You are only seen as complete in the database after all your LORs are in. A large majority of people do not submit LORs and really thats where their "10% acceptance rate" comes from. If you really want to boost your chances of getting a position having all three LORs submitted is important. Most PIs will only look at completed applications.

I submitted in early June and got the position two weeks later. I was in a bad situation where my earlier plans fell through and I scrambled for a job. Most people I've met applied in January.

 

[philosonista]

Are you entered into the database only after all LORs are in?

EDIT:
More questions: When did you first begin emailing PI's, and how long did it take you to secure an offer?

Thanks for doing this!

You are entered into the database only when you've sent requests for LOR -- not necessarily received them -- and put in something for the rest of your application. Leave no blanks. You can change your LOR requests, fyi. I actually put in dummy LOR requests that I changed later so that I could get the rest of my application up.

I started around October -- too early. I got no responses except one person telling me to contact them later. You should start during Thanksgiving break. December 1st at the latest. That's when things start getting heated, and people are scheduling interviews. I emailed 26 people within the scope of two weeks and it took me within the scope of those two weeks to get an offer.

You should keep a spreadsheet of all the people you plan to contact, checking off who you contacted and what they said, if anything. I composed a list of 40 people, looking for anyone in which I would have interest, and only whittled it down later to only the ones I loved when I got my first offer that I did not feel was at all a compromise. It worked beautifully.

 

[CaffeineJunkie]

You are entered into the database only when you've sent requests for LOR -- not necessarily received them -- and put in something for the rest of your application. Leave no blanks. You can change your LOR requests, fyi. I actually put in dummy LOR requests that I changed later so that I could get the rest of my application up.

I started around October -- too early. I got no responses except one person telling me to contact them later. You should start during Thanksgiving break. December 1st at the latest. That's when things start getting heated, and people are scheduling interviews. I emailed 26 people within the scope of two weeks and it took me within the scope of those two weeks to get an offer.

You should keep a spreadsheet of all the people you plan to contact, checking off who you contacted and what they said, if anything. I composed a list of 40 people, looking for anyone in which I would have interest, and only whittled it down later to only the ones I loved when I got my first offer that I did not feel was at all a compromise. It worked beautifully.

While I agree that starting early (around your winter break...I started then too) is a good idea, I just want to emphasize that you don't have to stress yourself out meeting a self-imposed urgent deadline. A lot of replies I received in late December/early January actually told me to check in with them again (in ~March) when they had a clearer view of their budget situations. My IRTA friends received acceptances anywhere from November to the following October (no joke - one friend started just before Halloween this year). Every lab does things differently, so cast aside the notion of set deadlines and don't despair if you don't hear back right away!

Source: Current IRTA diggin' the NCI

 

[philosonista]

While I agree that starting early (around your winter break...I started then too) is a good idea, I just want to emphasize that you don't have to stress yourself out meeting a self-imposed urgent deadline. A lot of replies I received in late December/early January actually told me to check in with them again (in ~March) when they had a clearer view of their budget situations. My IRTA friends received acceptances anywhere from November to the following October (no joke - one friend started just before Halloween this year). Every lab does things differently, so cast aside the notion of set deadlines and don't despair if you don't hear back right away!

Source: Current IRTA diggin' the NCI

If you want to maximize your chances, I would say do freak out about the self-imposed deadline. It's quite clear to me that starting on December 1st has put me in the first sorting of IRTA's. I did have a few tell me to contact them in March, but for the most part they were receptive in December. And who doesn't want a lab relatively rich enough to not have to crunch the numbers before hiring? One of my December interviewers even offered to fly me over to visit the lab.

 

[7331poas]

Why is this better than just joining a lab at your UG? I never understood these programs. What does an applicant expect to achieve in 2-3 months.

 

[philosonista]

Why is this better than just joining a lab at your UG? I never understood these programs. What does an applicant expect to achieve in 2-3 months.

There are summer-length IRTA programs. And one could easily argue NIH labs >>>>> your college lab.

But that is not the point: This thread is referring to the one or two year long program offered to recent college graduates.

 

[Lucca]

Why is this better than just joining a lab at your UG? I never understood these programs. What does an applicant expect to achieve in 2-3 months.

One reason could be money: some summer programs pay pretty well and it's tough to receive a similar stipend from your PIs grant money unless you can find support from your institution. Another could be the desire to see something else and see another part of the country. The same cannot really be said of a PhD program. Once you are in, you are in. It's beneficial to see another field, another lab, another PI, other researchers, a different environment. Plus its fun to travel.

 

[Noctámbulo]

OP- have you committed to IRTA for 2 years?

 

[philosonista]

OP- have you committed to IRTA for 2 years?

I am currently considering several offers that would commit me to two years. Indefinitely, I will be in the program for 2 years, though I am not certain about which PI it will be with.

 

[To be MD]

Hi, all. I'm currently holding offers from PI's at the NIH through the IRTA post-baccalaureate program.

It's been interesting and confusing navigating the process.

Give me your questions about the program if you have any! I'm doing a problem set on the last leg of finals week and looking for some fun.

Did you have solid research experience in college before you applied? I'm in the >2 years out boat as well, had no physical sciences research, and IRTA is the only one for which I'm eligible. What's your story?

That being said, the whole point of applying to a research post bacc, I thought, was to get you research experience. From what I see on their videos, they're looking for researchers in college who want even more experience before applying to a MD or MD/PHD program. Is that true?

 

[philosonista]

Did you have solid research experience in college before you applied? I'm in the >2 years out boat as well, had no physical sciences research, and IRTA is the only one for which I'm eligible. What's your story?

That being said, the whole point of applying to a research post bacc, I thought, was to get you research experience. From what I see on their videos, they're looking for researches in college who want even more experience before applying to a MD or MD/PHD program. Is that true?

I wasn't destitute of research experience. I had two years in a cellular bio lab, -- though with nothing to show for it but a good LOR -- a summer in a SURF program and one year in a statistics-intensive sociology project. I have gotten the feeling I had unusually good reception as an applicant, for my experience and other reasons, but it is neither unheard of nor uncommon for those with little to no experience to make it in. You might not get multiple offers, but if you sell the strengths you have that would be useful in research, it would help a lot. For example, even though sociology is not close to neuroscience, I've often used my sociology research as my primary example of why I make a good researcher.

 

[Gingy]

I turned down an IRTA position to work in clinical research at a private company (mostly for geographical reasons), did I screw up big time?

I think you made a fine decision. As a current IRTA, I'm regretting not having used my gap year to gain clinical experience. In retrospect it would have improved my app much more.

 

[Lucca]

I think you made a fine decision. As a current IRTA, I'm regretting not having used my gap year to gain clinical experience. In retrospect it would have improved my app much more.

It all depends on your goals and where your deficiencies might be.

 

[philosonista]

I think you made a fine decision. As a current IRTA, I'm regretting not having used my gap year to gain clinical experience. In retrospect it would have improved my app much more.

Lucca is right about this.

It's also worth noting -- now that I am reminded -- that some PI's could prefer research-interested IRTA's as opposed to pre-meds. I actually had one PI explicitly ask me if I was pretending to be pre-MD-PhD because he believes pre-meds are less willing to work and just want a pleasant gap year with some resume worth.

2/3 interviews I've had thus far have asked me explicitly why I am doing the program if my application is already so good. They're going to want to know why you're here -- a better explanation than I'm a pre-med in need of a gap year activity.

 

[Gingy]

If you want to maximize your chances, I would say do freak out about the self-imposed deadline. It's quite clear to me that starting on December 1st has put me in the first sorting of IRTA's. I did have a few tell me to contact them in March, but for the most part they were receptive in December. And who doesn't want a lab relatively rich enough to not have to crunch the numbers before hiring? One of my December interviewers even offered to fly me over to visit the lab.

Though freaking out might be a bit much, it is better to apply earlier. I applied late (March) and was lucky to be contacted by a PI. When I realized that e-mailing PIs was commonplace, I did so to see if I could garner more options. Most PIs had already filled their IRTA positions for the upcoming year.

Later applicants may certainly garner offers but it isn't the norm.

 

[Gingy]

It all depends on your goals and where your deficiencies might be.

I agree completely. But in my case, it was the wrong decision, and anyone considering becoming an IRTA should think long and hard about how/whether the position furthers their goals.

 

[7331poas]

There are summer-length IRTA programs. And one could easily argue NIH labs >>>>> your college lab.

How so? From what I have seen there is nothing that really distinguishes an NIH lab from other well funded researchers in basic science departments.

One reason could be money: some summer programs pay pretty well and it's tough to receive a similar stipend from your PIs grant money unless you can find support from your institution. Another could be the desire to see something else and see another part of the country. The same cannot really be said of a PhD program. Once you are in, you are in. It's beneficial to see another field, another lab, another PI, other researchers, a different environment. Plus its fun to travel.

I suppose, but there are plenty of other summer programs that offer research positions and stipends.

 

[philosonista]

How so? From what I have seen there is nothing that really distinguishes an NIH lab from other well funded researchers in basic science departments.



I suppose, but there are plenty of other summer programs that offer research positions and stipends.

Then I guess your college has good labs with good funding and interesting research. Not all do. And the prestige of working at the NIH for a summer is likely higher -- speaks better of your worth as an applicant.

 

[7331poas]

Then I guess your college has good labs with good funding and interesting research. Not all do. And the prestige of working at the NIH for a summer is likely higher -- speaks better of your worth as an applicant.

Does it? I am not trying to be difficult but could @Goro or @gyngyn speak to whether a summer program with the NIH is any better to an adcom than performing basic research in a lab at UG provided you are similarly productive and dedicated?

 

[Lucca]

Does it? I am not trying to be difficult but could @Goro or @gyngyn speak to whether a summer program with the NIH is any better to an adcom than performing basic research in a lab at UG provided you are similarly productive and dedicated?

Prestige of where you work likely matters very little for MD hell it probably doesnt matter for PhD. The content of the LOR and the experience are more important than the name at the bottom or of the institution. The NIH program is not the end-all summer program; it is one of many and due to their competitive nature people often apply to more than one. This thread in particular is for the IRTA program which is a 1-2 year post-bacc program. Your question might be better suited for the summer research thread. If you go to a large research university and are already involved in a lab there is very little to no incentive to go somewhere else. If you do, it is for non-research, non-professional reasons. For example, I want to go somewhere else next summer even though I could stay at my home institution. Why? I want to work with an MD/PhD or MD PI and see a different environment to solidify my decision to pursue the dual degree. Can't get that at my home institution. Nobody will care about this decision other than me. Not every single decision you make has to result in a +0.000001 on your med school app.

 

[Goro]

The key thing to all this is that you learn something about the scientific method. This could be done in a lab at your home university, at the NIH, or in the South Seas looking at clams.

Yet, in looking over the IRTA program, it appears to be competitive, and so I'd be impressed with someone who got into it.

Does it? I am not trying to be difficult but could @Goro or @gyngyn speak to whether a summer program with the NIH is any better to an adcom than performing basic research in a lab at UG provided you are similarly productive and dedicated?

 

[WhittyPsyche]

You are only seen as complete in the database after all your LORs are in. A large majority of people do not submit LORs and really thats where their "10% acceptance rate" comes from. If you really want to boost your chances of getting a position having all three LORs submitted is important. Most PIs will only look at completed applications.

I submitted in early June and got the position two weeks later. I was in a bad situation where my earlier plans fell through and I scrambled for a job. Most people I've met applied in January.

Actually you are marked as complete once a single LOR is in you become searchable. In fact, some of my professors said before they got the chance to write, PI's would call them and ask for a verbal reference if they were ready to make hire decisions.

 

[Noctámbulo]

Actually you are marked as complete once a single LOR is in you become searchable. In fact, some of my professors said before they got the chance to write, PI's would call them and ask for a verbal reference if they were ready to make hire decisions.

Are you sure applications are not searchable prior to the first LOR? I was under the impression that they would be, as long as the student has submitted their portion.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

Are you sure applications are not searchable prior to the first LOR? I was under the impression that they would be, as long as the student has submitted their portion.

Before any LORs your application is saved but is not accessible/searchable to the PIs. After the first letter comes in then you will get a notification saying you are officially complete and now searchable.

 

[steelersfan1243]

Why is this better than just joining a lab at your UG? I never understood these programs. What does an applicant expect to achieve in 2-3 months.

I think you're right a summer intern can expect not to achieve much in 2-3 months versus continuing a year long project with their undergrad. However, I think because of the summer interns, the NIH definitely has a different vibe in the summer and its actually a blast. Remember you live in DC and pretty much everyone drinks together for happy hour and on the weekends.

In terms of research, understand most labs do not have grad students. They are almost all full of staff scientists and postdocs. So if you were to get a strong letter from any of these PIs for just doing a summer's worth of research I think that would hold a lot of weight and would look impressive. The summer interns usually are some of the brightest people I've met.

Actually you are marked as complete once a single LOR is in you become searchable. In fact, some of my professors said before they got the chance to write, PI's would call them and ask for a verbal reference if they were ready to make hire decisions.

This is interesting and I think you are right because I was interviewed with only two letters in. But my offer was not confirmed until I got my third letter, so maybe its a must to have the letters in to be accepted.

 

[philosonista]

Are you sure applications are not searchable prior to the first LOR? I was under the impression that they would be, as long as the student has submitted their portion.

This is the official answer:

How will I know if my application is complete?
You may, if you wish, submit a partial application initially and complete your application at a later time. Please note, however, that NIH investigators are able to access completed applications only. If you submit a partial application, you will receive an e-mail with directions for completing it. Once you have submitted a completed application, you will receive an e-mail confirming that your application is complete. This message will contain login credentials that will allow you to update your application and instructions for checking to see whether your letters of reference have been received. Be certain to save this message.

This is from the letter I got when my application was complete (which occured when I had only requested, not gotten, any LOR's):

This confirms that we have received your Postbaccalaureate IRTA program application, and it is complete. (This does NOT mean, however, that we have received your letters of recommendation. See below for more on this.)

I stand by my original answer: An application considered complete has every box filled in, including LOR requests -- but not necessarily received LOR's.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

This is what is sent after the first letter is received. You are searchable without the renaming letters.

"Dear Postbaccalaureate IRTA Applicant,

This message is to follow up on your recently submitted Postbaccalaureate IRTA application, which is currently available for review by investigators at the National Institutes of Health (NIH). If someone reviews your application and wishes to interview you for a position, he or she will contact you directly. Please note that there is no fixed timeframe for application review and candidate selection."

 

[philosonista]

Hmm, so current IRTA. Let it be known, that being a NIH Postbac Fellow is really not that great and something to marvel over. Its the same research job that you can get at any academic institution with the same pay or go into industry to pretty much double your salary. Getting a position isn't hard either, its more of a applying at the right time. PI fill their open spots quick, but if you happen to apply once a lab has an opening, you'll most likely get the position. The only cool thing about it most labs understand you're applying to medical or grad school, so taking days off for interviews, studying for MCAT, or finishing applications is perfectly acceptable.

Hmm... I wouldn't steamroll the whole program under one premise. Certainly it matters which lab you work in, and how you are doing in that lab. I'm pretty certain one of my offers comes from a PI's who is a big figure in comp neuro. Not that I would expect ADCOM's to know that, but I'm pre-MD-PhD and it matters for that.

 

[crossingthefingers]

I met many many people on the interview trail where did the IRTA! Basically if someone said they lived in DC you knew what was up. Obviously they were successful (I was meeting them on the interview trail), but I don't know that they necessarily had more success than someone who took a full time tech job at a productive university lab. It's helpful if your mentor has connections at the school you're interviewing at, but that's not necessarily amplified by an NIH post-bac.

EDIT: For undergrads considering this, it's worth noting that it may be easier to get a position with NIH IRTA than at a university lab you don't have a connection to--in my experience, a lot of the hiring in universities is done internally, through word of mouth, etc.

 

[philosonista]

I met many many people on the interview trail where did the IRTA! Basically if someone said they lived in DC you knew what was up. Obviously they were successful (I was meeting them on the interview trail), but I don't know that they necessarily had more success than someone who took a full time tech job at a productive university lab. It's helpful if your mentor has connections at the school you're interviewing at, but that's not necessarily amplified by an NIH post-bac.

EDIT: For undergrads considering this, it's worth noting that it may be easier to get a position with NIH IRTA than at a university lab you don't have a connection to--in my experience, a lot of the hiring in universities is done internally, through word of mouth, etc.

Hmmm... The labs I am interested would not have me purely in the role of a lab tech. I would be an integral part of the team. Yes, some labs want purely tech-y post-baccs, but the ones I am seriously considering want me for my brain and not just my time.

 

[crossingthefingers]

You do you, girl. I'm pretty sure most people who are doing a tech-like role and applying MD/PhD aren't just running Westerns all day without understanding what a protein is! Lab tech is just the name of the position--also, I've met super super competent technicians who have done a brilliant job training me, so it's kind of a bummer to say they're not an integral part of the team.