For DO schools yes. For MD schools, the mean matriculant is around 510 and ORMs will likely want to have 512-513 to be competitive. State schools are more forgiving.
my point being that OP only has one remaining II despite having more than decent stats... these other things you've listed are hard to fix in the months remaining until the next cycle. i'd like to think schools he is a reapplicant at especially may not be as forgiving if his application itself has not changed much
Are you seriousOnly for derm/plastics
You will forge your own path regardless of what others advise. My daughter was advised several years ago by @Goro that she would not get into medical school with her scores and grades-it was a very discouraging and dismissive comment. What actually happened is that she did get into MD school that same year, matched in the selective specialty of her choice and was chosen to be the lead 1st year resident in general surgery after only two rotations. Advice can be helpful, but it's one person's opinion based on limited information.-don't let it deter you from your goals.
This. Nobody cares and as I recall the data on MCAT to step 1 correlation (which does matter a lot) shows it isn’t predictive at all.
there's still step 2 and other ways to separate yourself.
I think the first thing is, don't be stuck on a T20 school solely because of that designation. The idea of schools being more or less prestigious is not as important for med school as it is in undergrad (THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS LOL) and that socialization tends to stick with us but there are more drastic differences in UG because those institutions basically aren't really accredited in specific majors but in degree types i.e. BS, BA etc. So each school may vary more significantly on their curriculum and that's where you begin to see substantial differences because one school may add an extra course to better prepare their students that another school doesn't. Exams are generally school specific. Now with med school there isn't as much of that. Everyone is preparing for the same exact exams and has to learn generally the same content. I think the decisions should be most based on what learning environment will you be most comfortable in? What living environment will you be happiest and most functional in (sunny climate vs long winter, etc), which institution has faculty that teaches in a style that best meets your needs as a student, which institution has the clinical rotations you're most interested in? What partnerships does the institution have? Basically I believe your choice shouldn't be based solely on a ranking (there are exceptions lol) but more on how successful and *happy* (as much as possible 😅) you believe you will be as a student there. You have to choose the environment that sets you up personally for the best success.
Similar advise was given to my son also i.e. he is aiming too high but he got more T10 interviews than T20 (only applied to T20s). I agree that it's not easy to give advise without seeing PS, LORs etc. but comments like this are hurtful when same adcoms call premeds neurotic quickly.
Ehh I think the general consensus is that OP is free what he wants to do he will become a physician at one point or another. Totally support people making an informed decision whatever that may but he wants input and the fact of the matter is that the majority of stories of folks who do this are likely not as successful as you.***Complete opposite experience from what everyone is saying***
So I applied last year with a 510 and ended up getting into one of my state schools. Ended the cycle with 2 interviews, 1 acceptance. I decided to turn down the acceptance because the school felt like a poor fit and like the OP, I wanted to score better on the MCAT to go to a better school (not only ranking wise but also fit and financial reasons).
I retook the MCAT, reworked my PS, and better articulated my activities on my primary. I got a 516 and found a gap year full-time position as a COVID-case manager/researcher. Now I am nearing the end of my cycle with 9 interviews and acceptances from every school I have interviewed at. There are a few I am waiting on, like Mayo MN and Pittsburgh. One acceptance is a T-5.
The bottom line is there is no guarantee to this process. I took a large risk but I did it because I needed to stay true to myself and be honest that I did not want to spend 4 years at the school I had been accepted at. Frankly, I knew that I could perform better than I did and I would be a better fit at other schools...and I was willing to really risk it all to prove that to adcoms and make a better, happier life for myself the next 4 years and beyond. In my case, it worked. So personally, I would be hesitant to take the advice of others in this extremely unpredictable process. You need to do what is best for you. However, it IS true that you will need to let schools know you previously applied. And you will need to be able to fully back up your reasons for doing so. Also, there is a stigmatization of reapplicants at some schools and yes the acceptance rate in any given year is in the 40 %s.
I guess my point is that literally, no one can say anything about your situation. People can speculate based on chances but at the end of the day, if you think you will not be successful at a school, you need to do everything in your power to change that for yourself. I would disagree with the blanket statements others are saying in that you're doomed and you're morally/ethically wrong for turning down an acceptance. Everyone is living a complex life and you need to do what feels right for you.
Edit: Additionally, I never took "one year of earnings" into consideration because frankly, that means nothing to me. And that's coming from a disadvantaged app
Even seeing PS, LOR, and other objective data, there are so many intangible factors at play that you can never reliably predict what will happen or where someone will go. Every “expert” opinion needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The smartest student isn’t always the most personable and schools want a class with different talents to fulfill requirements such as diversity and inclusion.
So basically school list recommendations are useless?
Yikes. I think that last part was really un-necessary! I don’t know much about the residency selection process at this point, but I don’t think taking the MCAT several times has any baring on what sort of physician you are going to be! If anything, I think it means you are dedicated and hardworking and you don’t give up.
I don’t think it’s useless but it shouldn’t deter a student from applying to specific programs. It’s meant as a guide but not everyone fits the same mold. Generally applying broadly is the best option to have the most choice.
How will you deal with your life going to hell as you put it when you are in medical school and a doctor.
learning to compartmentalize what's going on in different spaces can be a challenge and not one people just learn before having to actually do it.... i'm sure OP will use this experience to learn how to manage the inevitable challenges that come in life and associated with this profession
You know they have resources for this in med school, residency, fellowship, and as a physician right? Burnout and physician suicide is a huge issue and one that is actively being addressed with support resources. I’ve had classmates at all steps of training who have gotten months to a year off to get their personal lives in order.
Agreed. Follow the $$$.
while i agree the OP should take the IU acceptance if it comes through, i never liked this argument about losing a year of attending salary. assuming someone is working full time before medical school, having money now to pay down debt from college and to start investing in a roth IRA/other investment accounts may end up making them more money in the process than going directly to medical school and having college debt continue to compound and lose out on those investments maturing. without knowing someone's debt or current salary, i don't think you can say for sure that the best long-term financial decision is to go to med school ASAP.
+1.
Which gap year job pays $300K?
what percentage of them go to fellowship? most non-surgical sub specialties need primary care residency.
with investments and paying off debt, you can make less now but actually accrue more in the future. its all about interest. not to mention the benefits of being in a lower tax bracket and being able to put that money into retirement investing.
I don't think many (if any) schools publish their graduate->fellowship data, but where and what they do in residency will carry more weight than where they went to school.
That's not the message. Rather, it's that with that particular profile tend not to be the ones who make it into the uber-residencies.
lol I think Goro is known for being quite brash. don't think he really wanted to nor cares about purposefully being malicious. just saying what might more than likely be true - someone who takes MCAT twice and gets the same score perhaps didn't adjust their studying plan the right way in response to the many challenges he was facing or unrealistic about how effective his prep was and what his target score was likely to be.... unlike say someone who received their target score on first attempt (whatever they may be) by making sure they covered all aspects of prep thoroughly and only took the exam when they were ready to do so and delayed it if necessary. of course there are outliers and sometimes people score much higher or lower than expected, but usually people score -/+2 of average AAMC scores. one's MCAT does not completely define someone's career trajectory or how well they will do in UME, but it may reveal habits that can make it more likely for someone to do well enough to actually pursue particularly competitive careers.
I understand what you are saying but the argument is 1 year salary compounds over more and purely financial point of view that's correct but I didn't buy that argument when my dividing my kid.
Again how many go from 503 to 525? That's the key here.
I agree on your argument, that was my argument also.
its not over 4 years though, you should compare it over the course of the career. you aren't losing a year of salary at 35, really you're losing a year of salary at retirement (in this scenario you're retiring at 65 no matter what).
the argument I heard is the savings from one year salary savings compounded over 30 years (say 100K after taxes and life style changes which will be over $700K after 30 years compounding at 7% stock market historic return) not comparing with salary at retirement age. This argument is used to justify 7 year BSMD programs.
yeah but i don't think thats the right way to look at it. in one scenario you work as an attending for 30 years lets say. in the other scenario you work as an attending for 29 years, but made $70k (average clinical research coordinator salary according to glassdoor, job that doesn't require a ton of experience and good for premeds looking to work for a bit) for one additional year, and that was allowed to compound for 9 additional years (4 years med school + 5 years res/fellowship with lower salary). that first year of attending salary will compound for almost the same amount of time (29 vs 30 years), so there is some loss but not significant. but now that attending has the $70k salary that compounded for an additional 9 years. so it really comes down to losing that year at the end, rather than the beginning.
yes, to each his own. The most reliable piece of information before making this decision is the performance on the AAMC practice FL tests. If this is at least consistently 4 points above the achieved score, there is nothing wrong in thinking about retaking based on the context of the situation.
