T20 next year or state school (T50) this year?

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

Again how many go from 503 to 525? That's the key here.

it's not just 503 to 525. it's 503 to 503 to 525, but i digress. i agree with you that mcat does not define someone's trajectory, especially how good of a clinician they will be. all i'm saying is that whatever led to OP not doing well those first few times might be a habit to try and fix prior to school. if it's possible to delay an exam when you are not in the best space, see if you can do so.... if you can't, see if you can identify adaptive coping methods that help you block out distractions which could affect your performance.

im most in admiration of OP's ability to stick with his gut and attempt the exam a third time when if he didn't change things he could have gotten a much similar score. he scored better than me anyways lol (522 here) in no way trying to bring him down.

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[Darrow O'Lykos]

This number is a little misleading. Most of these 45% are not true primary care (family practice etc) but high power Internal medicine and pediatric residencies which lead on to prestigious fellowships in cardiology/gastroenterology/oncology etc.

Very few people (some do) who do an internal medicine residency in an inner city community hospital land up in a prestigious cardiology/gi fellowship, they usually land up in primary care. Most of the internal medicine residents in prestigious residencies dont go there with an intention to pursue primary care, but rather as a pre-requisite for a fellowship program.

So, while there is some minimal truth to the saying on this bulleting board here that an MD is an MD (not sure I agree with it fully), there is not much truth to that all internal medicine residencies are the same.

I'm not saying all IM residences are the same, and I already admitted that obviously HMS is going to have a higher transition rate into fellowships than other schools, but my point remains the same that OP is likely overestimating the importance of attending a t20 to match into competitive specialties.

IU, like most state flagship medical schools, is a perfectly fine place to receive a medical education. It's not like they churn out nothing by primary care docs and t20s solely churn out ortho and derm matches.

edit: for a quick comparison, 11% of HMS's 2020 class matched ortho or derm. State schools in TX like UTSW and UTH matched 6% and 9% respectively into those same specialties. That isn't that substantial of a difference, and I'd be insane as a TX resident to have turned down an offer to either school if I was in OP's position and wanting to potentially get into a "better" school the next cycle just because my MCAT improved. Not to get too much into the weeds in comparing IU, UTSW, UTH, and HMS, but the point remains.

 

[DNAJB6]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, don't a lot of medical schools curve? Even if you get into a top 20, you can expect to be on the lower end of the curve given the two very low MCAT scores. Even at a P/F school it will affect recommendation letters if you are at the bottom of the class. That's something to consider too. You stand a better chance of being average or close to average at a state university.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

I think of it as the difference between those who make it into the NFL, versus those who make it to the NFL and consistently go to the Pro Bowl

Honestly I'd sign away my name, image, and likeness rights if a video game developer out there wanted to develop a mega-football game with a roster generated of the ~20k first year medical students in the US.

Making Pro-Bowl in that would be about as helpful as listing honor society membership when applying for residency.

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, don't a lot of medical schools curve? Even if you get into a top 20, you can expect to be on the lower end of the curve given the two very low MCAT scores. Even at a P/F school it will affect recommendation letters if you are at the bottom of the class. That's something to consider too. You stand a better chance of being average or close to average at a state university.

Lol arent p/f preclerkships actually the majority? And I’m no med student but maybe someone can weigh in on average consensus of whether med school exams require the same critical thinking skills as the mcat.

Either way, after speaking with those into medical education, it seems that after a certain foundation of basic science knowledge hard work to hone those clinical skills is what really separates Med students during clerkships.

having been in Boston the last couple of years and knowing several HMS students, I assure you (most of them) don’t strike me as geniuses or so much smarter than everyone else. Sure they get good grades and high scores, but most med schools can fill their classes with people with great stats. Beautiful thing about med school is that you all start from the same position even if there is a ranking

Someone I know at HMS told me they see tons of their classmates come in and think they’ve made it , and not put the same effort they had put in to get to HMS , resulting in their clinical skills really lacking. Seems like hard work and consistency can help you succeed in any UME no matter the pedigree of your peers.

 

[ChonkySkyBison]

Ehh I think the general consensus is that OP is free what he wants to do he will become a physician at one point or another. Totally support people making an informed decision whatever that may but he wants input and the fact of the matter is that the majority of stories of folks who do this are likely not as successful as you.

Yes, it really depends on how much you want to risk. I think the OP probably has a good shot at getting into a better school, considering they applied to 20 and most schools ask if you have ever applied to their specific med school before. I have only come across a few this cycle that asked about me applying to other med schools other than theirs in prior cycles. So the OP has many many schools they will not be a reapplicant at. A 525 is a 525 and I don't know why the consensus is that every med school averages MCAT scores. A lot of the ones I applied to, many in T20, say they look at the most recent on their websites. Also, how are we just gonna throw out the rhetoric "med schools like improvement" for this scenario? If they like improvement so much, this should be the greatest demonstration of that (503-525). This is an evident example of people demonizing those who are struggling to make the very soul-wrenching decision of turning down an acceptance. Everyone just goes straight to "don't ever do that" without trying to grasp the complexity of what it means to navigate such a choice.

Anecdotally, the bottom line is that everyone and their brother last year told me to just take the acceptance, that I should be grateful, that I may not ever get in again, etc etc. This was not the right path for me, despite the STRONG opinions of others. Sometimes you need to trust in yourself. If the OP knows that this is not the correct way to enter medicine for them, they'll likely work hard enough on their app to find a better fitting school. Essentially my opinion is that not everything is black and white, despite the abundance of premeds trying to make it so. Bullying the OP by saying they should be grateful etc. like some other people have done is literally not helpful and assumes a lot. I encourage people to try to understand how much goes into a decision like turning down an acceptance. And I fully recognize that the odds are stacked against reapplicants, that my situation is uncommon, unlikely, whatever. But people like me exist, it's just not talked about due to how quickly people jump to conclusions after one mentions declining an acceptance.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

At least @Goro is not a pre-med who is advising medical students..

Some of the premed advising is better than some experts. Some are very good at summarizing others views

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

That's not the message. Rather, it's that with that particular profile tend not to be the ones who make it into the uber-residencies.

I think of it as the difference between those who make it into the NFL, versus those who make it to the NFL and consistently go to the Pro Bowl

But sometimes undrafted players go to Pro Bowl

Top 30 undrafted players in NFL history

Recently, NFL Media experts made their picks for the best undrafted free agent currently in the NFL. Dallas Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo was my selection. That discussion had me wondering about Romo's place all-time among undrafted players. Romo is amo

www.nfl.com

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

Yes, it really depends on how much you want to risk. I think the OP probably has a good shot at getting into a better school, considering they applied to 20 and most schools ask if you have ever applied to their specific med school before. I have only come across a few this cycle that asked about me applying to other med schools other than theirs in prior cycles. So the OP has many many schools they will not be a reapplicant at. A 525 is a 525 and I don't know why the consensus is that every med school averages MCAT scores. A lot of the ones I applied to, many in T20, say they look at the most recent on their websites. Also, how are we just gonna throw out the rhetoric "med schools like improvement" for this scenario? If they like improvement so much, this should be the greatest demonstration of that (503-525). This is an evident example of people demonizing those who are struggling to make the very soul-wrenching decision of turning down an acceptance. Everyone just goes straight to "don't ever do that" without trying to grasp the complexity of what it means to navigate such a choice.

Anecdotally, the bottom line is that everyone and their brother last year told me to just take the acceptance, that I should be grateful, that I may not ever get in again, etc etc. This was not the right path for me, despite the STRONG opinions of others. Sometimes you need to trust in yourself. If the OP knows that this is not the correct way to enter medicine for them, they'll likely work hard enough on their app to find a better fitting school. Essentially my opinion is that not everything is black and white, despite the abundance of premeds trying to make it so. Bullying the OP by saying they should be grateful etc. like some other people have done is literally not helpful and assumes a lot. I encourage people to try to understand how much goes into a decision like turning down an acceptance. And I fully recognize that the odds are stacked against reapplicants, that my situation is uncommon, unlikely, whatever. But people like me exist, it's just not talked about due to how quickly people jump to conclusions after one mentions declining an acceptance.

Roughly a century's worth of cumulative, pertinent experience and perspective advising OP of the statistical reality of their situation shouldn't be perceived as bullying. OP can do what they'd like, but there is a reason an overwhelming ratio of experienced individuals are advising them to take the acceptance should they get it.

Sure, they can try and be one of the astronomically low number of applicants that successfully garner a t20 acceptance after rejecting a USMD acceptance in a previous cycle (and notably, solely for the reason of "well I wanted to go somewhere better"), but placing the two options on a scale and saying they both hold even remotely equal merit is simply poor judgment. That's the blunt reality.

SDN has a few trolls here and there, but by in large we're here to help each other accomplish our dreams. No one is trying to bully OP (at least not that I've seen).

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Hi everyone- so I’m in a peculiar situation. I took the MCAT twice in 2020 and got a 503 both times. I applied to 20 schools, and so far only got one interview from my state school (Indiana University) My GPA is pretty high at 3.9+ too.

I just got my MCAT from January 15 back and am very fortunate to have scored a 525. I was in a much different mindset and it drastically changed how I approached the test, so I’m happy to see it paid off. That being said, if I get into IU this year, should I take my admission offer, or should I withdraw and reapply this upcoming cycle to several top 20 schools?

I am willing to take out more loans if it means I can get a stronger name. I’m interested in very competitive specialties like derm and plastics (though not academic medicine) and have heard that a strong name can go really, really far with helping to match these residencies. Although, I am burnt out from the exhaustion of taking the MCAT three times and don’t know if I have the strength to push through applying and interviewing another year (I have a masters program and research lined up in the meantime since I thought I wouldn’t get in this year). So- if I get in to IU, do I take it, or do I wait and apply again to try and secure a top 20 admission? Adcom and expert advice appreciated @Goro @LizzyM @gonnif @WedgeDawg @gyngyn Thanks everyone!

Honestly if you do not have commonsense to find out what is better, really you should rethink about if you need to be a doctor and rethink why you applied to med school. If you are really gunning for the top school, please deny the current acceptance and go for it next year.

 

[ChonkySkyBison]

Roughly a century's worth of cumulative, pertinent experience and perspective advising OP of the statistical reality of their situation shouldn't be perceived as bullying. OP can do what they'd like, but there is a reason an overwhelming ratio of experienced individuals are advising them to take the acceptance should they get it.

Sure, they can try and be one of the astronomically low number of applicants that successfully garner a t20 acceptance after rejecting a USMD acceptance in a previous cycle (and notably, solely for the reason of "well I wanted to go somewhere better"), but placing the two options on a scale and saying they both hold even remotely equal merit is simply poor judgment. That's the blunt reality.

SDN has a few trolls here and there, but by in large we're here to help each other accomplish our dreams. No one is trying to bully OP (at least not that I've seen).

I shared my experience and now I think I'll move on. I don't wish to argue when I am simply saying that nothing is as black or white as this thread is making it out to be. Per my post, I stated that the OP should take into account the acceptance rates/stigmatization/risk. However, the OP should also consider those of us who are on the flip side, where things have worked out incredibly well. That is all, have a good one everybody

 

[emergentmd]

All of the antedoctal advices on both ends have very little bearing on the questions. You can Monday morning QB all you want but has little bearing on the decision making. Someone winning the lottery shouldn't mean that you should play the lottery. Someone going to liberal arts making $50M/yr as an actor doesn't mean you should go into liberal arts expecting to make it rich.

Bottom line is IF OP gets into IU, he/she has 2 decisions he has to make

#1 - Accept and become a doctor with a chance of going to Derm/Plastic
#2 - Decline and risk not getting into med school

The betting man would say #1 would have a higher chance of becoming a derm/plastic just b/c you are risking never making it in again. You are an adult, make whatever decision is more important to you.

For me, I would never risk a life changing decision to go back into the application pool. Declining alone tells me you have poor insight and need some growing up to do.

 

[DNAJB6]

SDN has a few trolls here and there, but by in large we're here to help each other accomplish our dreams. No one is trying to bully OP (at least not that I've seen).

Exactly. We're trying to be helpful.

 

[Keep2r]

what percentage of them go to fellowship? most non-surgical sub specialties need primary care residency.

The reported match for medical schools are for the specialty the student will ultimately go into. I think the primary care residency you are talking about are transitional years/prelim years, these are not what is reported by medical schools in their match lists. For example, if a student goes into neurology residency, they will do a 1 year transition year/prelim year in internal medicine. However, this student will not be listed in the match as "primary care", they will instead be listed as having matched to neurology. Transition years and prelim years are generally not reported and don't matter.

That being said, a significant portion of students at top 20 programs still match into primary care and internal medicine specialties. This isn't because they couldn't get into a more competitive specialty, it's because they are not interested in surgery and dermatology. Not everyone is meant to go into that kind of lifestyle. There are students who find interests in neurology, psychiatry, family medicine, etc. In fact, many of the top residencies for these "less competitive" specialties are actually harder to get into than a low-tier program for plastic surgery or dermatology.

I was the top of my class and aced all of my medical school classes, rotations, and Step exams but I chose internal medicine, a "primary care" field because I knew I wanted to become a cardiologist and didn't really care about cutting people open. I matched at a top-tier residency for internal medicine where the majority of my classmates are from top 20 medical schools. I have absolutely no regrets about not pursuing plastic surgery or dermatology. I am, however, very psyched to be practicing cardiology next year which has always been my dream.

 

[Keep2r]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, don't a lot of medical schools curve? Even if you get into a top 20, you can expect to be on the lower end of the curve given the two very low MCAT scores. Even at a P/F school it will affect recommendation letters if you are at the bottom of the class. That's something to consider too. You stand a better chance of being average or close to average at a state university.

THIS is so absolutely true. The reason a dream school is a dream school is because it's out of your reach. At a top program everyone in your class will be as smart or smarter than you. Just getting into medical school already weeded out the majority of average college students, being the 1% of the 1% will be even more high stress and you will not be special unless you are somehow gifted and at the very top.

The stress gets to a lot of people and that's why every few years you hear about a medical student killing him/herself when they don't get the results they wanted. I think all of my classmates have broken down and cried at one point or another in med school and residency.

I don't know if being subpar at a top 20 is better or worse than being average or above average at a state university, but I'd think the subpar student at a top 20 will definitely feel less confidant applying to a competitive program.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

The reported match for medical schools are for the specialty the student will ultimately go into. I think the primary care residency you are talking about are transitional years/prelim years, these are not what is reported by medical schools in their match lists. For example, if a student goes into neurology residency, they will do a 1 year transition year/prelim year in internal medicine. However, this student will not be listed in the match as "primary care", they will instead be listed as having matched to neurology. Transition years and prelim years are generally not reported and don't matter.

That being said, a significant portion of students at top 20 programs still match into primary care and internal medicine specialties. This isn't because they couldn't get into a more competitive specialty, it's because they are not interested in surgery and dermatology. Not everyone is meant to go into that kind of lifestyle. There are students who find interests in neurology, psychiatry, family medicine, etc. In fact, many of the top residencies for these "less competitive" specialties are actually harder to get into than a low-tier program for plastic surgery or dermatology.

I was the top of my class and aced all of my medical school classes, rotations, and Step exams but I chose internal medicine, a "primary care" field because I knew I wanted to become a cardiologist and didn't really care about cutting people open. I matched at a top-tier residency for internal medicine where the majority of my classmates are from top 20 medical schools. I have absolutely no regrets about not pursuing plastic surgery or dermatology. I am, however, very psyched to be practicing cardiology next year which has always been my dream.

No, I am talking about medicine subspecialties like GI, Cardiology, Oncology, Nephrology etc... which require IM residency and so goes with Pediatrics. My spouse is a specialist so I know what I am talking

 

[Keep2r]

No, I am talking about medicine subspecialties like GI, Cardiology, Oncology, Nephrology etc... which require IM residency and so goes with Pediatrics. My spouse is a specialist so I know what I am talking

Oh gotcha. Those who go on to sub specialize are not reported in medical school matches. But I would estimate at least half if not more of residents from top tier institutions will go on to subspecialize and succeed.

 

[bennybrak]

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. There's reason why it's an adage. Don't make this mistake. Make the most of the opportunities that come your way today and fight for tomorrow's battle's when you already have your legs in med school.

 

[deleted880375]

A bird in the hand etc etc

In this case the bird is not even in hand though

 

[Banco]

In this case the bird is not even in hand though

 

[DNAJB6]

+1.

44% of Harvard's 2020 graduating class matched into a primary care field. People overestimate their chances of matching into a competitive specialty solely based on what school they attend, or underestimate their ability to match into competitive fields despite not having a t20 name on their degree.

I can't fathom turning down a USMD acceptance, especially an in-state school, for the statistically small chance they can get accepted to a "higher ranked" USMD school a year later.

If OP wants to become a doctor, they should take the hypothetical acceptance to the doctor school that allows people to become doctors. Especially at a discounted rate in comparison to perceived t20 private doctor schools.

But your post assumes that those that went into primary care were forced to do so as if it is some sort of residency purgatory for those who couldn't match into ortho, neurosurgery, or the other competitive fields. Some people are genuinely drawn to it. With that said, I agree withe rest of your post.

 

[Goro]

But your post assumes that those that went into primary care were forced to do so as if it is some sort of residency purgatory for those who couldn't match into ortho, neurosurgery, or the other competitive fields. Some people are genuinely drawn to it. With that said, I agree withe rest of your post.

Yup. Contrary to the delusions of some pre-meds, Primary Care is not the 7th Circle of Hell.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

But your post assumes that those that went into primary care were forced to do so as if it is some sort of residency purgatory for those who couldn't match into ortho, neurosurgery, or the other competitive fields. Some people are genuinely drawn to it. With that said, I agree withe rest of your post.

My post assumed nothing regarding the motivations of those who go into primary care. My post was in response to those making faulty assumptions that one must go to a t20 to go into a competitive speciality, or that if one goes to a state school they will be more likely to have to go primary care, when the numbers show that reality doesn’t fit that mindset. A significant proportion of doctors enter primary care, whether it be from a state school or t20 school. Those who seek more competitive specialties can also do so from either route.

 

[mcat_taker]

Didn't the NYT just publish an article recently showing how med school applications are exploding due to interest secondary to COVID?? Like Stanford having 50% more applications this year or something?? Sounds like it'll get more and more competitive next year more than this year. OP I would take the allopathic acceptance if granted (still not a sure bet), not like you're juggling a DO interview vs a Top 20 potentially next year. Don't burn yourself out going through application season again.

 

[Goro]

Didn't the NYT just publish an article recently showing how med school applications are exploding due to interest secondary to COVID?? Like Stanford having 50% more applications this year or something?? Sounds like it'll get more and more competitive next year more than this year. OP I would take the allopathic acceptance if granted (still not a sure bet), not like you're juggling a DO interview vs a Top 20 potentially next year. Don't burn yourself out going through application season again.

It's been mentioned multiple times in these fora that apps are up at all med schools, to the tune of 10-40%. This is based upon the reports of the Adcom members of SDN, who represent some ~10% of all US med schools.

Admissions do seem to go up when the economy tanks.

 

[A Ryan Seacrest Type]

Probably has been stated but the advantage of going to a top 20 include:
1) obtaining a "top tier" residency program, i.e. prestige begets prestige. Yes any US MD will afford you the opportunity to purse any specialty you may want (including competitive ones), but those name brand residency programs within a specialty will be more easily obtainable with a top 20

2) You can be among the lower performing students in your class (meaning you can work less hard TO AN EXTENT) and still match well in a competitive program or even top program, whereas in a "lower ranked" med school you really have to be among the top of the class to match competitive specialties or programs

There are probably other reasons like wanting academia and stuff but this is the gist of it. If these things and what others have mentioned are worth it to you and you like to gamble, then push another year. If you're more risk averse, capable of working hard and just want to match a competitive specialty (not emphasizing the prestige of the actual program), then take the MD now. Choice is yours

 

[sasukeuchiha33]

100% re-apply

A 525 MCAT will attract the attention of top-tier MD schools that value academic stats more than anything else. And I don't really think med schools average MCAT scores, my pre-medical advisor at the University of Miami, Dr. Michael Stephen Gaines, mentioned that that's rarely ever done and not truly seen in practice.

I have no doubt you'd match somewhere great, I'd personally re-apply next year because you deserve the best possible education any top medical school would be lucky to have someone as brilliant, diverse, and humble as you.

can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not 😅

 

[DNAJB6]

It's been mentioned multiple times in these fora that apps are up at all med schools, to the tune of 10-40%. This is based upon the reports of the Adcom members of SDN, who represent some ~10% of all US med schools.

Admissions do seem to go up when the economy tanks.

How long do the spikes in application numbers last? Is it better to defer applying a year for this coming cycle in your opinion?

 

[m1redsox]

can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not 😅

If you plan to do this (I am not advocating for it - I think it is bad advice, which is extremely common to receive from pre-med advisors) then you should withdraw from IU's WL now in order to avoid questions about your dedication to medicine. Although I will say, you seem to only respond to comments that support you in your plan to reapply and ignore all others (maybe some confirmation bias or something?), in which case you might as well do it. But do it BEFORE you are accepted.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

How long do the spikes in application numbers last? Is it better to defer applying a year for this coming cycle in your opinion?

I sincerely doubt applications spiked because of sudden interest due to Dr. Fauci. Media just loves to make headlines. Applications went because
1. Those who intended to take gap year applied after realizing that they can't strengthen ECs during pandemic
2. Some schools became MCAT blind
3. With no ECs and fewer job opportunities applicants have more time to work on applications.

For comparison, UG applications also went up 50% or more at most schools so I don't think it's Fauci effect.

Apply when your application is strong not based on number of applicants. You will have more reapplicants next year.

 

[Goro]

How long do the spikes in application numbers last? Is it better to defer applying a year for this coming cycle in your opinion?

A weaker applicant might be helped be deferring.

But a good applicant should apply

 

[DNAJB6]

A weaker applicant might be helped be deferring.

But a good applicant should apply

GPA/MCAT wise, what does this translate into?

 

[deleted1066189]

Kind of an odd thread when OP doesn't have a guaranteed acceptance yet.

That said. good luck OP!!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

GPA/MCAT wise, what does this translate into?

Doesn't it depends on home state and URM/ORM status?

 

[DNAJB6]

I sincerely doubt applications spiked because of sudden interest due to Dr. Fauci. Media just loves to make headlines. Applications went because
1. Those who intended to take gap year applied after realizing that they can't strengthen ECs during pandemic
2. Some schools became MCAT blind
3. With no ECs and fewer job opportunities applicants have more time to work on applications.

For comparison, UG applications also went up 50% or more at most schools so I don't think it's Fauci effect.

Apply when your application is strong not based on number of applicants. You will have more reapplicants next year.

I wish schools would continue #2 so I don't have to take the MCAT.

 

[DNAJB6]

Doesn't it depends on home state and URM/ORM status?

I was thinking a generic rule of thumb like "you should score X points better than last year's MCAT median for each school (after adjustments for each demographic) to be equally competitive this cycle."

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I was thinking a generic rule of thumb like "you should score X points better than last year's MCAT median for each school (after adjustments for each demographic) to be equally competitive this cycle."

my rule of thumb for ORMs is 3.8/517.

 

[DNAJB6]

my rule of thumb for ORMs is 3.8/517.

That's surprisingly not that bad.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

#1 - Accept and become a doctor with a chance of going to Derm/Plastic
#2 - Decline and risk not getting into med school

The betting man would say #1 would have a higher chance of becoming a derm/plastic just b/c you are risking never making it in again. You are an adult, make whatever decision is more important to you.

For me, I would never risk a life changing decision to go back into the application pool. Declining alone tells me you have poor insight and need some growing up to do.

This post can't be emphasized enough.

If anyone in a position to similar OP is reading this and contemplating this possible action, consider this: if you want the honor and privilege of becoming a doctor and practicing medicine, take the acceptance that affords you that opportunity. Declining it and trying for better would be steeped in arrogance, ignorance, and vanity, and such a foolish decision would be unbecoming of really any medical professional.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

That's surprisingly not that bad.

It's not bad if you have those with required ECs (in hundreds of hours not necessarily thousands) and a decent essay writer

 

[LaughingGas10]

my rule of thumb for ORMs is 3.8/517.

average for ORM matriculants last cycle was asian 3.77/513.8, caucasian 3.77/512.2.

so for most state schools, even slightly lower than these numbers would be competitive stats for ORM who are in state.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

average for ORM matriculants last cycle was asian 3.77/513.8, caucasian 3.77/512.2.

so for most state schools, even slightly lower than these numbers would be competitive stats for ORM who are in state.

Not in my state (CA) though 😀

 

[Banco]

average for ORM matriculants last cycle was asian 3.77/513.8, caucasian 3.77/512.2.

so for most state schools, even slightly lower than these numbers would be competitive stats for ORM who are in state.

Damn even GPA's are approaching an average of 3.8 now.

When I started premed the numbers cited to be competitive for top schools were 3.7 GPA with a 35 MCAT (517).

 

[LaughingGas10]

Not in my state (CA) though 😀

Yes, it is harder for californians to match in state (especially ORM).

However, surprisingly California has much better overall metrics for matching (and is definitely not in the 5 highest metrics state for difficulty among matriculating students) , since students have better opportunities to get extracurricular experience, so lots of the students match out of state.

 

[m1redsox]

Not in my state (CA) though 😀

Per the AAMC, the average CA matriculant in 2020 had a 3.7 cGPA and a 513.5. Sure, maybe URMs pull that down slightly, but Asians pull it up slightly and white matriculants are usually just above average. I’d say 3.75/514 as a white applicant in CA and 3.8/515 as an Asian. I’m white and from CA too (got into a CA program and I’m included in the 2020 stats) and definitely didn’t get a 517 haha.

https://www.aamc.org/media/6076/download

 

[LadyDustyBlue]

Pretty much this. OP should respectfully remove themselves from the situation (WL from their state school or whatever is going on) or patiently wait for that A.

It sounds more like an undeveloped situationship rather than a marriage proposal with a pre-nuptial. And initially this whole thread had the impression that perhaps OP had the A.

I’m a non-trad pre-med at this moment looking at this like, “I’m in my twenties but shrugs! It took me awhile to accept this path but I wanted to be damn sure *why* I wanted to do it.” Everyone in my immediate family works in medicine somehow, or at a hospital. But I wanted to know why it was right for me and WHEN I was ready.

No matter OP’s current age, if you want it to happen, end the thread & move FORWARD with your life: however that seems fit for you. SDN members here can only supply you with so much but we don’t wake up as you tomorrow.

Also... Speaking as someone who turned down a top program at a top school in California, when you *have* to make a withdrawal, you do it for the right reason. Death of a family member before I was going to transfer was mine. But if it wasn’t that? I would’ve later realized I went to a specific school to prove I could make it. Rarely is that enough to keep you pursuing a path though! For me, it took volunteering for a political campaign, talking to people irl, & working a specific job to get back to wanting to be pre-med again. So really? Don’t do it to prove it to anyone.

And if you think that you need to prove it to yourself, you know... that thought in your head that you’re only as good as the prestige, then you have to re-think whether your integrity is all there.

 

[lidaojie37]

Hi everyone- so I’m in a peculiar situation. I took the MCAT twice in 2020 and got a 503 both times. I applied to 20 schools, and so far only got one interview from my state school (Indiana University) My GPA is pretty high at 3.9+ too.

I just got my MCAT from January 15 back and am very fortunate to have scored a 525. I was in a much different mindset and it drastically changed how I approached the test, so I’m happy to see it paid off. That being said, if I get into IU this year, should I take my admission offer, or should I withdraw and reapply this upcoming cycle to several top 20 schools?

A jump up to a 525 after two 503s?? What on earth did you do to change your mindset?

 

[LaughingGas10]

Hi everyone- so I’m in a peculiar situation. I took the MCAT twice in 2020 and got a 503 both times. I applied to 20 schools, and so far only got one interview from my state school (Indiana University) My GPA is pretty high at 3.9+ too.

I just got my MCAT from January 15 back and am very fortunate to have scored a 525. I was in a much different mindset and it drastically changed how I approached the test, so I’m happy to see it paid off. That being said, if I get into IU this year, should I take my admission offer, or should I withdraw and reapply this upcoming cycle to several top 20 schools?

I am willing to take out more loans if it means I can get a stronger name. I’m interested in very competitive specialties like derm and plastics (though not academic medicine) and have heard that a strong name can go really, really far with helping to match these residencies. Although, I am burnt out from the exhaustion of taking the MCAT three times and don’t know if I have the strength to push through applying and interviewing another year (I have a masters program and research lined up in the meantime since I thought I wouldn’t get in this year). So- if I get in to IU, do I take it, or do I wait and apply again to try and secure a top 20 admission? Adcom and expert advice appreciated @Goro @LizzyM @gonnif @WedgeDawg @gyngyn Thanks everyone!

What resources and changes in exam taking technique helped you improve the score from 503 to 525 ?

Looking at the AAMC data tables, there are probably less than a few handful people who manage to increase the score by 10 points, and I think the number of people who increase by 22 points, is extremely rare.

This may be useful for future test takers

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

Yup. Contrary to the delusions of some pre-meds, Primary Care is not the 7th Circle of Hell.

No, that's either clinical trials research or pediatric allergy

 

[MDMechEngr]

interesting how you won't expand on the rest of your app... even a 503 with a 3.9+ and a decent EC list should get something more than a statie.... unless you only applied to the JHU-esque tier. hmm...

a 503 is likely lethal at MD schools unless you have a hook or you fit with the school's mission. The fact the OP received an II, although his state school (a good school), means he likely has a good application regardless of the 503.