The future of anesthesiology

[kkolwath]

I recently met with a medical advisor and he really tried to deter me from going into medicine. He stated that I should go into dentistry instead because there was a surplus of physicians and not enough dentists. He also stated that the industry is threatened by PAs and CRNAs that are being looked upon as colleagues and not subordinates to the anesthesiology, and the fact that they can pay them less money than a true MD. I would like to know how does the practicing anesthesiologist feel about these comments.

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[Noyac]

Yeah, become a dentist. Seriously. That is if its right for you.

 

[MD Dreams]

I recently met with a medical advisor and he really tried to deter me from going into medicine. He stated that I should go into dentistry instead because there was a surplus of physicians and not enough dentists. He also stated that the industry is threatened by PAs and CRNAs that are being looked upon as colleagues and not subordinates to the anesthesiology, and the fact that they can pay them less money than a true MD. I would like to know how does the practicing anesthesiologist feel about these comments.

Lots of discussion about this topic already. Do a search.

I think that dentistry is protected to a much larger degree than medicine from all the BS beauracracy. However, as a dentist you will not make anywhere near some of the higher paying subspecialties of medicine. The exception, I believe is if you go into orthodontics, but you really have to be at the top of your class to have a shot at that.

I think dentistry is a great profession and you can make a great difference in peoples lives, perhaps more than some specialties in medicine. But after all is said and done, I think you should listen to your heart!

 

[Duckie24]

Oh geez, can we lock this one up before it even starts. Please! There are endless threads about this already.

 

[heymisslady]

Yeah, become a dentist. Seriously. That is if its right for you.

I have absolutely no interest in dentistry. I just wanted to get the opinion of practicing anesthesiologists, because you all are already dealing with the red tape of medicine.

 

[The_Sensei]

I recently met with a medical advisor and he really tried to deter me from going into medicine. He stated that I should go into dentistry instead because there was a surplus of physicians and not enough dentists. He also stated that the industry is threatened by PAs and CRNAs that are being looked upon as colleagues and not subordinates to the anesthesiology, and the fact that they can pay them less money than a true MD. I would like to know how does the practicing anesthesiologist feel about these comments.

Do what most dentists have already done: attempted to get into medical school, failed and then became dentists. OR you could trick yourself into believing that that is what you really wanted from the onset and apply to dental school from the get go!

 

[Monty Python]

Do what most dentists have already done: attempted to get into medical school, failed and then became dentists. OR you could trick yourself into believing that that is what you really wanted from the onset and apply to dental school from the get go!

I think my deceased father would argue that broad and unflattering over-generalization. His college was delayed by four years of island-hopping in the Marines during World War 2. His applicant cohort pool to dental school consisted of the people at the "normal" point in their age-related academic progression, plus a huge amount of returned GIs whose educational progress was put on hold as they served their country in it's darkest hour. His dental school class of 50 had over 700 competitive applicants, three times the normal amount.

He had no desire to be a physician. He never applied to medical school. He had a productive, prosperous, and fulfilling career as a busy and well-respected dentist. Oh, yes, he never had a beeper, got about one phone call per month after hours, and worked 9-4 five (later four) days per week. Never on call. Full nights sleep. Time for family life and hobbies.

His golfing foursome for about 20 years was an orthopod, an OBGYN, and an ophthalmologist. All the MDs regretted the day they applied to medical school. They all vigorously counseled me to never apply to medical school as I caddied for them.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Do what most dentists have already done: attempted to get into medical school, failed and then became dentists!

Dude dental school is a sweet gig. You get to wear scrubs - every day - for 3 years. Seriously. Full scrubs.

Inpatient medicine docs and students don't wear scrubs, why do dentistry students?!

 

[ewps13]

Go for dentistry if you think you will like the work.

They go to school for 4 years and then start getting paid. No extra 3-5 years of residency and fellowship bulls--t to put up with while working like a slave. Once you are into dental school, you know what you are going to do.

Hours are easy, and they get compensated pretty well. Just as much if not more than most primary care, depending on the area you work in.

Forgot about all that prestige, failed to be an MD crap. Just something that nerds who care about how smart you are care about.

 

[johankriek]

I recently met with a medical advisor and he really tried to deter me from going into medicine. He stated that I should go into dentistry instead because there was a surplus of physicians and not enough dentists. He also stated that the industry is threatened by PAs and CRNAs that are being looked upon as colleagues and not subordinates to the anesthesiology, and the fact that they can pay them less money than a true MD. I would like to know how does the practicing anesthesiologist feel about these comments.

that is sound advice.. He is pretty on the money with whats going on....

 

[MD Dreams]

Go for dentistry if you think you will like the work.

They go to school for 4 years and then start getting paid. No extra 3-5 years of residency and fellowship bulls--t to put up with while working like a slave. Once you are into dental school, you know what you are going to do.

Hours are easy, and they get compensated pretty well. Just as much if not more than most primary care, depending on the area you work in.

Forgot about all that prestige, failed to be an MD crap. Just something that nerds who care about how smart you are care about.

100% agree!

Plus, most of your time, you are doing procedures, which are fun by themselves.

 

[Mman]

Hours are easy, and they get compensated pretty well. Just as much if not more than most primary care, depending on the area you work in.

You'd be hard pressed to find a respectable dentist clearing less than $300,000 a year in a medium sized city in the midwest for 8-5 M-F. Hell, you could find any number of jobs in any number of cities with salaries well over $500,000. Dentists get paid. I know. I was "dumb" enough to find it quite boring and turned down the easy cash to go to medical school where you've got to work for less $$$.

 

[DendriticCell]

Well, we can tell how much they make by looking at their graduated degree

D.D.S = Double doctor's $
M.D. = Major Debt

decision is yours, choose wisely.

 

[The_Sensei]

Well, we can tell how much they make by looking at their graduated degree

D.D.S = Double doctor's $
M.D. = Major Debt

decision is yours, choose wisely.

In what fantasy world of yours do dentists make twice a physician's salary? No wonder you couldn't get into medical school.......

 

[toofache32]

In what fantasy world of yours do dentists make twice a physician's salary? No wonder you couldn't get into medical school.......

Not that it matters, but since you asked....2001 marked the first year that general dentists' average income passed primary care MDs (internal medicine, pediatrics, FP) according to the ADA. with an average of $180,000 and an average work week of 32 hours. For dental specialists, it can double or triple. Show me one orthodontist or endodontist making less than $400,000 (at minimum, while many easily get up to 6 or 7). But if it's not something you enjoy, then what's the point?

 

[EtherMD]

Not that it matters, but since you asked....2001 marked the first year that general dentists' average income passed primary care MDs (internal medicine, pediatrics, FP) according to the ADA. with an average of $180,000 and an average work week of 32 hours. For dental specialists, it can double or triple. Show me one orthodontist or endodontist making less than $400,000 (at minimum, while many easily get up to 6 or 7). But if it's not something you enjoy, then what's the point?

If you want to earn the bucks forget General Dentistry. The money is in Oral Surgery, Cosmetic Dentistry and Orthodontistry.

Oral Surgery: $600-$800,000 per year. average week 40-45 hours.
Cosmetic Dentistry: $500-$700,000. average week 40 hours
Orthodontist: $500-$650,000 per year. average week 40 hours

I know all of the above and they make the high end of what I listed.
Now, compare that with the following:

Anesthesiology: $200-$800,000. Average salary $375,000 per year. Average work week 52 hours

You make the call. Pretty darn near two times when the HOURS are factored into the equation.

 

[markneil]

If you want to earn the bucks forget General Dentistry. The money is in Oral Surgery, Cosmetic Dentistry and Orthodontistry.

Oral Surgery: $600-$800,000 per year. average week 40-45 hours.
Cosmetic Dentistry: $500-$700,000. average week 40 hours
Orthodontist: $500-$650,000 per year. average week 40 hours

I know all of the above and they make the high end of what I listed.
Now, compare that with the following:

Anesthesiology: $200-$800,000. Average salary $375,000 per year. Average work week 52 hours

You make the call. Pretty darn near two times when the HOURS are factored into the equation.

are you serious? you're talking about guys who've been in the field for 20+ years or starting out? never thought the dude who put my braces in baack in the day earned that much.

 

[The_Sensei]

If you want to earn the bucks forget General Dentistry. The money is in Oral Surgery, Cosmetic Dentistry and Orthodontistry.

Oral Surgery: $600-$800,000 per year. average week 40-45 hours.
Cosmetic Dentistry: $500-$700,000. average week 40 hours
Orthodontist: $500-$650,000 per year. average week 40 hours

I know all of the above and they make the high end of what I listed.
Now, compare that with the following:

Anesthesiology: $200-$800,000. Average salary $375,000 per year. Average work week 52 hours

You make the call. Pretty darn near two times when the HOURS are factored into the equation.

Sorry, bro......most of your posts are right on, but I'm gonna' have to call bullsh#t on this one.

 

[toofache32]

are you serious? you're talking about guys who've been in the field for 20+ years or starting out? never thought the dude who put my braces in baack in the day earned that much.

I would say within 5-10 years.

Sorry, bro......most of your posts are right on, but I'm gonna' have to call bullsh#t on this one.

I would say he's right on. This is my observation from having both dental and medical degrees, a father and grandfather who was an orthodontist, 2 other general dentists in the close family, and my current position as an oral surgery resident. I used to moonlight as a general dentist one day a week and made about $40G per year.

I've only seen the actual bank books of 2 oral surgeons. One was 5 years out and the only guy in a small town. He deposited 1.3M with 40% overhead. the other guy was one of our recent grads who made $180 his first year, $280 his second year, and over $500 by his 4th year out.

But I'll never see it because I'm planning on academics.

 

[EtherMD]

I would say within 5-10 years.



I would say he's right on. This is my observation from having both dental and medical degrees, a father and grandfather who was an orthodontist, 2 other general dentists in the close family, and my current position as an oral surgery resident. I used to moonlight as a general dentist one day a week and made about $40G per year.

I've only seen the actual bank books of 2 oral surgeons. One was 5 years out and the only guy in a small town. He deposited 1.3M with 40% overhead. the other guy was one of our recent grads who made $180 his first year, $280 his second year, and over $500 by his 4th year out.

But I'll never see it because I'm planning on academics.

I work with three Oral Surgeons. These guys are in high demand and get a lot of all cash cases. I work in their private office as well. On the low end the new guy makes $500,000. The senior guy, age 42, makes $800,000.
Do you know how much a full set of dental implants can run? Try $40,000 Cash. I routinely provide anesthesia for a few implants (1.5 hour case) which cost the patient $22,000. Plus, these guys do gum grafts (good money) and TMJ surgery, etc. I am telling you they are really well paid.

My Orthodontist (kids have braces) makes $600,000 per year. He lives real well on those braces. He charges $5200 per set ($$$ cash). He does offer zero percent interest financing over 36 months however.

As for Cosmetic Dentistry the Wall Street Journal featured these guys a few years ago. They make $500,000 per year easy provided they limit their insurance business and basic dentistry. Do you know what a cap or crown costs these days? More than most of your Medicare cases pay for the entire anesthetic.

Behind Plastic Surgery and Dermatology these guys have it made. What else can you do in Medicine that makes that kind of money with a 40 hour work week? Also, no Mid-Level Providers stealing their livelihood either.

Sorry, but the dentists got it right when they turned down being involved with Medicare.

 

[The_Sensei]

I work with three Oral Surgeons. These guys are in high demand and get a lot of all cash cases. I work in their private office as well. On the low end the new guy makes $500,000. The senior guy, age 42, makes $800,000.
Do you know how much a full set of dental implants can run? Try $40,000 Cash. I routinely provide anesthesia for a few implants (1.5 hour case) which cost the patient $22,000. Plus, these guys do gum grafts (good money) and TMJ surgery, etc. I am telling you they are really well paid.

My Orthodontist (kids have braces) makes $600,000 per year. He lives real well on those braces. He charges $5200 per set ($$$ cash). He does offer zero percent interest financing over 36 months however.

As for Cosmetic Dentistry the Wall Street Journal featured these guys a few years ago. They make $500,000 per year easy provided they limit their insurance business and basic dentistry. Do you know what a cap or crown costs these days? More than most of your Medicare cases pay for the entire anesthetic.

Behind Plastic Surgery and Dermatology these guys have it made. What else can you do in Medicine that makes that kind of money with a 40 hour work week? Also, no Mid-Level Providers stealing their livelihood either.

Sorry, but the dentists got it right when they turned down being involved with Medicare.

I stand corrected! Too bad I hate teeth though....

 

[johankriek]

If you want to earn the bucks forget General Dentistry. The money is in Oral Surgery, Cosmetic Dentistry and Orthodontistry.

Oral Surgery: $600-$800,000 per year. average week 40-45 hours.
Cosmetic Dentistry: $500-$700,000. average week 40 hours
Orthodontist: $500-$650,000 per year. average week 40 hours

I know all of the above and they make the high end of what I listed.
Now, compare that with the following:

Anesthesiology: $200-$800,000. Average salary $375,000 per year. Average work week 52 hours

You make the call. Pretty darn near two times when the HOURS are factored into the equation.

My personal friend from college is currently an orthodontist. He is 35 years old. made 550,000 dollars last year. after four years in dental school he did a one year endodontics residency. he works 4 1/2 days a week a little over forty hours..

The average salary for an anesthesiologist is NOT 375K ether. What are you sniffing? ether? I would say the average salary for an anesthesiologist is closer to 275-290. and thats on the high side.. Maybe Im way off. But I dont know any of my friends making in the high 300s and i know at least 15 personal friends who are anesthesiologists.
So dentistry is a great field for 1)control of schedule 2) lifestyle 3) way less headaches then medicine. 4) higher salary.. I think control of schedule is one of the most important things..

 

[EtherMD]

My personal friend from college is currently an orthodontist. He is 35 years old. made 550,000 dollars last year. after four years in dental school he did a one year endodontics residency. he works 4 1/2 days a week a little over forty hours..

The average salary for an anesthesiologist is NOT 375K ether. What are you sniffing? ether? I would say the average salary for an anesthesiologist is closer to 275-290. and thats on the high side.. Maybe Im way off. But I dont know any of my friends making in the high 300s and i know at least 15 personal friends who are anesthesiologists.
So dentistry is a great field for 1)control of schedule 2) lifestyle 3) way less headaches then medicine. 4) higher salary.. I think control of schedule is one of the most important things..

Johan,

I have news for you. Your salary is "low" by Private Practice standards. A recruiter told me average salary for MDA was $350,000 plus benefits. I was told the "average" academic attending salary was $240,000 (50th percentile).
These numbers do not include benefits like health, retirement, malpractice, etc. Many AMC's offer the low 300's plus benefits. Georgia is not a high paying state in general for MDA's (except perhaps certain Atlanta locations).

Please check your "sources" as even Mark Lema lists the overall average MDA salary (academic and private practice) at $300,000. My numbers seem to verify the data presented by Lema. Usually, the "published" numbers are low because my Physicians under-report their incomes on surveys.

Also, check Gaswork.com and look at the jobs in Colorado, Indiana,etc. There are plenty of jobs offering starting salaries in the high two hundreds for the FIRST year of a partnership track. Another reason that joining a Group can pay much better than going "solo" from day one. Groups have more bargaining power with the hospital which helps to obtain subsidy money.
Even in high Medicare states like Florida which should be lower than national average offer salaries in the Mid-300's. Check it out.

In short, you and your friends are making below average private practice income. Sorry dude, but this is the truth.

 

[johankriek]

Johan,

I have news for you. Your salary is "low" by Private Practice standards. A recruiter told me average salary for MDA was $350,000 plus benefits. I was told the "average" academic attending salary was $240,000 (50th percentile).
These numbers do not include benefits like health, retirement, malpractice, etc. Many AMC's offer the low 300's plus benefits. Georgia is not a high paying state in general for MDA's (except perhaps certain Atlanta locations).

Please check your "sources" as even Mark Lema lists the overall average MDA salary (academic and private practice) at $300,000. My numbers seem to verify the data presented by Lema. Usually, the "published" numbers are low because my Physicians under-report their incomes on surveys.

Also, check Gaswork.com and look at the jobs in Colorado, Indiana,etc. There are plenty of jobs offering starting salaries in the high two hundreds for the FIRST year of a partnership track. Another reason that joining a Group can pay much better than going "solo" from day one. Groups have more bargaining power with the hospital which helps to obtain subsidy money.
Even in high Medicare states like Florida which should be lower than national average offer salaries in the Mid-300's. Check it out.

In short, you and your friends are making below average private practice income. Sorry dude, but this is the truth.

umm, maybe i should move to these states.,.. Im just telling you the reality. I have friends in varied environments and different states.. the average is prolly high 200s.

 

[The_Sensei]

umm, maybe i should move to these states.,.. Im just telling you the reality. I have friends in varied environments and different states.. the average is prolly high 200s.

Your friends are getting hosed, bro.......I wouldn't bother tying my shoes for the high 200s.

 

[EtherMD]

umm, maybe i should move to these states.,.. Im just telling you the reality. I have friends in varied environments and different states.. the average is prolly high 200s.

If you had joind a Group like mine you would have started out at a higher salary your First year than you currently earn. After 24 months you would be making SUBSTANTIALLY more money than you think possible. I also have several friends in Top Tier Groups and they are all making more money than you think possible. The difference is we are all in Groups that receive hospital subsidy money. My best guess is that your friends and you don't.
At your level of pay NO AMC would take the contract.

At my Group we pay our CRNA's around $200,000 plus benefits for a 50 hour work week.
The good news for you is that even CRNA only groups may not want your contract either as these types of CRNA's expect the high 200's for 50 hours a week (CRNA only).

Maybe, you need to re-evaluate your "hatred" of Groups because it is costing you a lot of potential lost wages. There are many Groups that would pay you a SALARY higher than your current level of income with NO PARTNERSHIP track.

I am glad you posted the comments about salary. There is much to be learned about the "business" side medicine.

 

[YupGypsy]

If you want to earn the bucks forget General Dentistry. The money is in Oral Surgery, Cosmetic Dentistry and Orthodontistry.

Oral Surgery: $600-$800,000 per year. average week 40-45 hours.
Cosmetic Dentistry: $500-$700,000. average week 40 hours
Orthodontist: $500-$650,000 per year. average week 40 hours

I know all of the above and they make the high end of what I listed.
Now, compare that with the following:

Anesthesiology: $200-$800,000. Average salary $375,000 per year. Average work week 52 hours

You make the call. Pretty darn near two times when the HOURS are factored into the equation.

Posts like this makes me feel horrible =(

 

[YupGypsy]

I work with three Oral Surgeons. These guys are in high demand and get a lot of all cash cases. I work in their private office as well. On the low end the new guy makes $500,000. The senior guy, age 42, makes $800,000.
Do you know how much a full set of dental implants can run? Try $40,000 Cash. I routinely provide anesthesia for a few implants (1.5 hour case) which cost the patient $22,000. Plus, these guys do gum grafts (good money) and TMJ surgery, etc. I am telling you they are really well paid.

My Orthodontist (kids have braces) makes $600,000 per year. He lives real well on those braces. He charges $5200 per set ($$$ cash). He does offer zero percent interest financing over 36 months however.

As for Cosmetic Dentistry the Wall Street Journal featured these guys a few years ago. They make $500,000 per year easy provided they limit their insurance business and basic dentistry. Do you know what a cap or crown costs these days? More than most of your Medicare cases pay for the entire anesthetic.

Behind Plastic Surgery and Dermatology these guys have it made. What else can you do in Medicine that makes that kind of money with a 40 hour work week? Also, no Mid-Level Providers stealing their livelihood either.

Sorry, but the dentists got it right when they turned down being involved with Medicare.

$$$ wise, Plastic surgery & dermatology > dentists?

I know an aggressive dermatologists raking in 7 figures a year with a full-blown practice. However, most surveys report dermatologists salaries to be around $200k, are they accurate?

 

[toofache32]

$$$ wise, Plastic surgery & dermatology > dentists?

I know an aggressive dermatologists raking in 7 figures a year with a full-blown practice. However, most surveys report dermatologists salaries to be around $200k, are they accurate?

These may be the same surveys that say dentists make $80-130K. Those are notoriously low for most specialties (in my opinion).

 

[johankriek]

If you had joind a Group like mine you would have started out at a higher salary your First year than you currently earn. After 24 months you would be making SUBSTANTIALLY more money than you think possible. I also have several friends in Top Tier Groups and they are all making more money than you think possible. The difference is we are all in Groups that receive hospital subsidy money. My best guess is that your friends and you don't.
At your level of pay NO AMC would take the contract.

At my Group we pay our CRNA's around $200,000 plus benefits for a 50 hour work week.
The good news for you is that even CRNA only groups may not want your contract either as these types of CRNA's expect the high 200's for 50 hours a week (CRNA only).

Maybe, you need to re-evaluate your "hatred" of Groups because it is costing you a lot of potential lost wages. There are many Groups that would pay you a SALARY higher than your current level of income with NO PARTNERSHIP track.

I am glad you posted the comments about salary. There is much to be learned about the "business" side medicine.

what state are you in? geez.. crnas starting out at 200K how is that cost effective.. New grads on the east coast make 200K. and mature pay is like I said 280-320.. I know groups that are at select hospitals... and are fortunate not to have many medi-cal or medicare can make that much.. but the salary you are throwing out is crazy. I do get some money at some hospitals for taking call and doing ob but thats it...... I hate groups because they skim off of the top

 

[YupGypsy]

These may be the same surveys that say dentists make $80-130K. Those are notoriously low for most specialties (in my opinion).

I have never seen a survey that reports $320k+ for derm. Same goes for Orthodontists & Oral Surgeons, and I know these guys make a lot more than what the surveys say.

 

[EtherMD]

what state are you in? geez.. crnas starting out at 200K how is that cost effective.. New grads on the east coast make 200K. and mature pay is like I said 280-320.. I know groups that are at select hospitals... and are fortunate not to have many medi-cal or medicare can make that much.. but the salary you are throwing out is crazy. I do get some money at some hospitals for taking call and doing ob but thats it...... I hate groups because they skim off of the top

Dude, you are making pretty good ACADEMIC type pay. Do you work as an academic attending? Your pay is low (about 30th percentile) for Private Practice in the USA. So, you prefer to be screwed by the hospital instead of a Group? The difference is the Group screwing is better and ends after 2-3 years! Your screw job goes on and on until you find out!

You will find dozens of private practice Groups paying you more money after your first year (that's 12 months) with them. By 24 months you would be making a whole lot more money. Groups are much better at getting a subsidy for work and low paying cases. Do you get a subsidy? I am 100% positive that a AMC would at your hospital. But, no AMC would touch your hospital without a big subsidy. However, you are much happier knowing the CEO of the hospital is screwing you (because he screws everybody) rather than some Group. The problem with your logic is that you NEVER earn a good income.

Based on your logic every Mid management guy in corporate America should quit because the CEO gets paid hundreds of millions of dollars for sittting on his ass while they do all the work. Another example is the Academic Chair doing 1/5 the work of the average attending but making 2 times the pay. Wise up! Sometimes you have to pay some dues up-front in order to get to your goal.

This post is a good example why Residents need a few "guest visitors" from the private sector prior to getting a job.

 

[salary]

what state are you in? geez.. crnas starting out at 200K how is that cost effective.. New grads on the east coast make 200K. and mature pay is like I said 280-320.. I know groups that are at select hospitals... and are fortunate not to have many medi-cal or medicare can make that much.. but the salary you are throwing out is crazy. I do get some money at some hospitals for taking call and doing ob but thats it...... I hate groups because they skim off of the top

Thought I would post anonymously what I could remember about the salaries my residency mates started at (finished last year):
1. $185,000 (academic)
2. $200k then $240k then partner @~$320k
3. $300k then $400k then partner @>$500k
4. $240k for two years then partner @>$500k
5. $200k for two years then partner @$600k
6. $200k then ? then partner after 4 years @~$700k
7. $180k for 2.5 years then partner @~330k
8. $? then partner after 2 years @~$330k
9. $? then partner after 3 years @~$300k

That's all I can remember. Most of the lower salaries were out west.
At least one of these places was 50-60% medicare/caid... the rest all had there fair share too...

 

[EtherMD]

Thought I would post anonymously what I could remember about the salaries my residency mates started at (finished last year):
1. $185,000 (academic)
2. $200k then $240k then partner @~$320k
3. $300k then $400k then partner @>$500k
4. $240k for two years then partner @>$500k
5. $200k for two years then partner @$600k
6. $200k then ? then partner after 4 years @~$700k
7. $180k for 2.5 years then partner @~330k
8. $? then partner after 2 years @~$330k
9. $? then partner after 3 years @~$300k

That's all I can remember. Most of the lower salaries were out west.
At least one of these places was 50-60% medicare/caid... the rest all had there fair share too...

Your numbers are not too bad. Remember the academic salary goes up as well after a few years so the average pay is $240,000. As you can see from the high numbers finding a job with partnership pay after 2-3 years which results in $375,000 plus is totally realistic. I would never recommend anyone serve a track greater than one year for a partnership worth less than $350,000 since this is "average" type income. Someone has to be below average/Median pay don't they? I just don't recommend it.

 

[Stimulate]

what state are you in? geez.. crnas starting out at 200K how is that cost effective.. New grads on the east coast make 200K. and mature pay is like I said 280-320.. I know groups that are at select hospitals... and are fortunate not to have many medi-cal or medicare can make that much.. but the salary you are throwing out is crazy. I do get some money at some hospitals for taking call and doing ob but thats it...... I hate groups because they skim off of the top

$200K is probably cost-effective because of the 50-hour work week. CRNAs working 30-40 hour work weeks probably start in $100K-140K range but this group is working extra hours for extra pay. Most of the SRNAs and CRNAs that I know only want to work 36 hours per week so this is a motivated group apparently. Money will do that to ya.

 

[Stimulate]

Your numbers are not too bad. Remember the academic salary goes up as well after a few years so the average pay is $240,000. As you can see from the high numbers finding a job with partnership pay after 2-3 years which results in $375,000 plus is totally realistic. I would never recommend anyone serve a track greater than one year for a partnership worth less than $350,000 since this is "average" type income. Someone has to be below average/Median pay don't they? I just don't recommend it.

At my institution (academic) the starting salary is approx $220K without fellowship and $240-270K with fellowship (depending on what the fellowship is in). Raises are 1-6% per year with (rumor has it) $320K salary cap.

Most of my friends taking private jobs are $275-325 first year with 1 year to partnership ($400K plus).

 

[EtherMD]

At my institution (academic) the starting salary is approx $220K without fellowship and $240-270K with fellowship (depending on what the fellowship is in). Raises are 1-6% per year with (rumor has it) $320K salary cap.

Most of my friends taking private jobs are $275-325 first year with 1 year to partnership ($400K plus).

I agree with most of the above. The average partnership track is 24 months in the USA. I stand by my statement that average partner income is around $375,000 plus benefits. Those will fellowship training should be able to do better than average in the track or more importantly, the partner income.
Fellowship trained individuals have a "leg-up" on the rest and have the option of getting the higher paid jobs (greater than $400,000 per year).

 

[VolatileAgent]

Thought I would post anonymously what I could remember about the salaries my residency mates started at (finished last year):
1. $185,000 (academic)
2. $200k then $240k then partner @~$320k
3. $300k then $400k then partner @>$500k
4. $240k for two years then partner @>$500k
5. $200k for two years then partner @$600k
6. $200k then ? then partner after 4 years @~$700k
7. $180k for 2.5 years then partner @~330k
8. $? then partner after 2 years @~$330k
9. $? then partner after 3 years @~$300k

That's all I can remember. Most of the lower salaries were out west.
At least one of these places was 50-60% medicare/caid... the rest all had there fair share too...

your numbers at your institution are low and, therefore, not competitive for academia. i was offered (but didn't take) a job at my home program starting at about $35K more than you listed.

 

[kkolwath]

Thanks guys for all of the comments, but we got off the subject. I really don't care about the money, as long as I can pay my student loans and put money away for retirement. I don't need a $40,000 car or a mansion. I just want to do what I love and help ppl in undersereved areas and participate in doctors without borders. These are the things important to me .

 

[opa beleza?]

 

[EtherMD]

Thanks guys for all of the comments, but we got off the subject. I really don't care about the money, as long as I can pay my student loans and put money away for retirement. I don't need a $40,000 car or a mansion. I just want to do what I love and help ppl in undersereved areas and participate in doctors without borders. These are the things important to me .

Are you for real? If so, you have ZERO worries for the future.

 

[zippy2u]

Wow Kkolwath, I lost that mindset about helpin' the poor , makin' enough money to survive, doctors without borders and all that other liberal BS about the 1st week of MS-3 year. Yeah, ya could say I developed my "jadedness" early in my career. Be careful out there though; rather rough world and goin' to get rougher--- don't be "tooled" Regards, ---Zip

 

[The_Sensei]

Wow Kkolwath, I lost that mindset about helpin' the poor , makin' enough money to survive, doctors without borders and all that other liberal BS about the 1st week of MS-3 year.

Damn, Zip......it took you THAT long. Guess I'm even more jaded than you.

 

[mille125]

zzzzzz

 

[The_Sensei]

zzzzzz