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The First Step is Admitting you have a problem:
Official Liar List: PittMedicine
Official Liar List: PittMedicine
PittMedicine said:The First Step is Admitting you have a problem:
Official Liar List: PittMedicine
PittMedicine said:The First Step is Admitting you have a problem:
Official Liar List: PittMedicine
kypdurron5 said:Hrrrm he could be talking about "laying"....so, do tell, who can't stop getting laid because they're so excited about the future? Ok, enough low-class humor.
I could actually see a valid point here. Just today I was considering how far I am willing to stretch the truth during an interview. I am never one to lie, but lets face it; this is the most important event as far as our futures are concerned. Before we can realize our dreams we must first jump the hurdle of getting into medical school, which requires that we present certain life-experiences in a way so as to highlight why we will make good doctors. Do I have close friends who cant afford proper healthcare well, I did talk to that cashier at Walmart yesterday for a good 20 seconds .
Law2Doc said:If you were getting laid nonstop you wouldn't be thinking past the present.
There's a difference between lying and "spin". Spin is where you talk about your actual true experiences, but cast them in the light most favorable to your cause. What was boring and tedious gets recast as interesting and thought provoking.
Lying is where you never had such an experience in the first place (boring or not) and are just making it up. Lying is what is not acceptable, and what adcoms will sniff out a mile away.
PittMedicine said:I meant on this thread.
kypdurron5 said:Well that depends on how good a liar you are, how long your interviews are, how "believable" your lies are, etc. The idea that adcoms are all-knowing is a myth that has unfortunately been perpetuated too long.
Law2Doc said:What seems like a good job of being believable at 20 may not be to someone much older, who has been around the block a few times. You get pretty good at reading people with age, particularly if your job requires it. Judges, police officers, interviewers -- it's all the same. It's an acquired skill that improves with each passing year. And this skill is helped by the fact that most liars aren't particularly good at it. And most college age folks are far worse liars than they'd like to think. When you are young you think you know more than you do. Medical school cures you of this.
I've done some job interviewing in my prior career, and you absolutely can tell the fakers.
kypdurron5 said:Look, I completely agree with everything in that post. The only thing I'm trying to get you to admit is that it IS possible to lie and get away with it. I realize those different things which are obvious to the untrained, trained, and all-knowing...but you seem to refuse to admit the possibility that you can lie about SOMETHING and get away with it. Thus, why I said "Well that depends on how good a liar you are, how long your interviews are, how "believable" your lies are, etc." To suggest that you can't get away with saying "I volunteered Mondays, Tuesdays, and Fridays" when you actually only volunteered Mondays, Fridays, and one time on a Tuesday is ludicrous. Don't get me wrong, I KNOW that you realize this, it's just that you don't acknowledge it in any of your posts on the topic of lying (I'm referring to another thread as well where you said something about adcoms "seeing through" things). Interviews may be experienced, as are interrogators and judges...but even Jack Bauer is wrong sometimes.
quantummechanic said:What about OJ?
butmylipshurtrealbad said:Am I the only one who is copletely confused by this thread? What is it about?
PittMedicine said:The First Step is Admitting you have a problem:
Official Liar List: PittMedicine
Law2Doc said:Sure adcoms aren't all-knowing. But they are usually pretty sharp. And because they do several hundred interviews a year, they get pretty good at it. Maybe you could get away with something petty, like a few extra hours of volunteering without betraying yourself, but try to lie about something big and you are pretty likely to get caught. People have "tells', "tics" and other nervous mannerisms. Others get too emphatic. Still others catch themselves in lies even within the span of a 20 minute interview And the rest are just never are as convincing as they'd like to think.
confused48 said:The OP started the Interviews 2007 thread and indicated that he/she had two interviews at schools in VA. Subsequently (today) he/she indicated that this was a lie and removed his/her name from the schools. Now why he/she started this thread is not clear--hoping for group forgiveness perhaps?
kypdurron5 said:Plus, even if an adcom "thinks" someone might be lying, there is nothing they can do about it unless it's verifiable. It's not like they're going to say to the admission council "this applicant is impressive, but I think they're lying about their dead cat...I can't prove it, but I've been doing this for 35 years..." Thus, I think most adcoms take the "innocent until proven guilty" stance, or the "trust but verify" option (credit- CSI lol). There is no room for the "gut feeling" option unless it has something to do with the applicant as a whole- one suspected lie just won't cut it as far as denying an otherwise qualified applicant a position.
Law2Doc said:Um, no, if an interviewer thinks you are being less than truthful, they simply give you a lower score on the interview. There is lots of room on that form for judgement calls (vague categories such as "maturity") and you only have to be a point or two shy of others to not get into that med school. If you think that the interview is a place where you get the presumption (of innocence, admission, etc), you are wrong, and approaching it incorrectly. You need to earn the spot, not just not screw it up.
kypdurron5 said:Lol, I love your arrogant diatribes on adcoms. You had honestly better BE an adcom if you're going to speak with as much arrogance as you do (again, not just this thread, but others). And maybe you are, but still, your response is still ignorant in that it assumes all interview processes work the same way. Who says all schools use a "point" system? Who says you have to "prove yourself" to all schools? Heck, one interviewer told me straight up that he wasn't there to pass any sort of judgement, that his job at the school was simply to present my credentials to the committee. I would never say you get a presumption of admission, but you're suggesting interviewers presume us to be lying degenerates as they search for the slightest sign of nervousness. Yeah, like EVERYONE isn't nervous when interviewing! All the characteristics used to detect "lying" are analogous with being nervous- the theory being that you shouldn't be nervous if you're telling the truth. That logic just doesn't hold true with what we're talking about because we're interviewing for our very future, hopes, and dreams. The idea that adcoms presume lying over honesty based upon some nervous characteristics is, again, ludicrous. Finally, what I've failed to mention thus far is that many schools use completely inexperienced med students for at least one of the interviews. Look, you obviously have your mind set, and so I am seriously not trying to change it...I am merely trying to help others see past your biased excerpts proclaiming adcoms to be demigods.
Except the ones who had you fooled.Law2Doc said:I've done some job interviewing in my prior career, and you absolutely can tell the fakers.
Law2Doc said:You seem to be exaggerating a lot of what I say, or are reading things between the lines that haven't been said. I'm just telling folks it's a bad idea to lie -- you will get caught. Nervousness and perceived lying are not the same thing. If you feel you know what's what, more power to you. I see no need to debate this further.
But at any rate, I know of quite a few schools that use point systems on interviews. I also know of schools where everyone is deemed equal as of the interview, making the interview the only game in town once you get to that level. If you don't sell yourself better than the last couple of applicants, you are SOL. I don't know what school has their interviewers not judging you but it is an exception not the norm in this process. The committee already has your paper credentials (so there is no need to have someone merely "present your credentials to them"), and the point of the interview is to get someone's take on you in real life. The interview plays a huge role in admission at most places, and is not a formality. (And those places that use student interviewers generally place value to that input accordingly.)
narc said:You really need to change the title of this thread.
"I can't stop lying because I am a worthless piece of $hit"
The guy from the other thread attacking everyone with immature insults?MiesVanDerMom said:ETA: but i'm still in love with Dr. E
instigata said:the guy in my avatar...he's alive
kypdurron5 said:I agree with you that lying is a bad idea, however, it's not because you'll get caught; it's because you're trying to a be a doctor for goodness sakes! You should have the utmost integrity, and not crossing that line now would be a good start.
TheProwler said:Except the ones who had you fooled.
hahaha and most people don't realize that until it's too late. i think i'm sooo excited about my future that i can't take any chances and lie.Law2Doc said:All I'm saying is don't lie, both because it's unethical and also because you are likely not nearly as good at it as you think you are.
Amen to that. If you're a traditional applicant, odds are very good that you haven't been through more than a dozen high pressure interviews. The person doing the interviews has probably conducted hundreds if not thousands. They'll know your "type" if you try on a persona like a hat.Law2Doc said:All I'm saying is don't lie, both because it's unethical and also because you are likely not nearly as good at it as you think you are.
):( said:
SeaAngel45 said:Usually I tell the truth regarding my grades and scores
However my parents lie sometimes. I have people coming up to me and asking me about my GREAT GPA (I have a 3.3). lol, it's usually embarassing to make my parents look like liars so I end up compensating for thier lies.
It's a vicious cycle.
swifty100850 said:actually, outside of the pre-med/law world, a 3.3 is very respectable (especially in a difficult major).
TheProwler said:Except the ones who had you fooled.
kypdurron5 said:I could actually see a valid point here. Just today I was considering how far I am willing to stretch the truth during an interview.
I am never one to lie, but lets face it; this is the most important event as far as our futures are concerned. Before we can realize our dreams we must first jump the hurdle of getting into medical school, which requires that we present certain life-experiences in a way so as to highlight why we will make good doctors.