The ultimate COVID thread

[doctalaughs]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

That guy was a drunk idiot and while I don't think deadly force was necessary, perhaps the cop should just face some sort of sanction or firing. However, not even I think the cop should face prison time over an incident where a suspect swings around to fire a taser at you.


And yes, it was most definitely a taser and the cops knew it. He had already been searched, and when the scuffle escalated they threatened numerous times to tase him, and then it sounded like they were talking about him grabbing the taser before he broke off and ran.

As to whether the guy had 1 foot and a hundred lbs on the cop, I'll let you decide:

And how else would they know it was a taser? The thing is bright yellow and even before being fired it glows like a goddamned light saber from 50 ft away, even on a blurry security cam zoom in

The part I watched prior was from a different angle. I withdraw the 100 lbs and 1 foot after seeing that.

and I do agree with your assessment- sanction, retraining (for handling the situation poorly). Not charges— and not cause for riots (or even really fuel for big protests).

The trouble I see with BLM supporting major protests of this incident (or liberal media spinning it up) ... they have big widespread support with Floyd and risk loosing it if they try to equate a situation like this in the narrative.

 

[Twiggidy]

And before anyone asks, in a lot of states, especially in that area of the country, if you are intoxicated in the driver seat of a parked car you can be considered driving under the influence. I know some places say the key has to be in the ignition.

 

[marr65]

Honestly...having now seen multiple dash cam videos and bystander footage, my opinion is have your drinks at home and if a cop says you’re under arrest just turn around, get in the cuffs and go to jail. Wrestling with two officers, taking one’s taser, running, and then firing at them wont end well for you. What can also be true is police need to re-evaluate how they handle drunks.

I do not equate this situation with George Floyd.

I heard DeRay McKesson say on a podcast to ask yourself to visualize a loved one and ask yourself “What is the minimal thing that person can do where you’d be ok if they were killed by the police?” Personally shooting a cops taser a him comes pretty close.

Damn, they arrested a guy that wasn’t even driving. Is it normal to be arrested that way? Cops should have just impounded the car and call an Uber for him.

 

[Southpaw]

Rayshard Brooks - one of the first questions he was asked was ‘are you carrying a weapon?’ He said ‘No’. He was then patted down and no weapon was found.

The problem here is that we have a cop acting as judge and jury and delivering capital punishment after a DUI and a SCUFFLE. It was clear he wrestled a taser from one cop and fired it at the other WHILE RUNNING AWAY. COPS HAVE TO STOP DOING THIS ****!!!

Abolish police unions. Change the way they’re trained. Have fewer of them if they aren’t willing to take up the job asked of them. Force them to live in the cities in which they SERVE. They should be STEWARDS of the law. Not judge and jury. I’m tired of white cops and white men delivering capital punishment to African American men as if they are judge and jury. For walking on a construction site. Or sitting in your car drunk. Or having a scuffle. Or walking down the street. Or sitting in your car telling a cop you have a licensed firearm. Or walking through a Wal Mart with an unboxed BB gun. Or whatever other ridiculous situations African American men have been killed by white cops. THEY KNEW HE WAS UNARMED.

He didn’t deserve to lose his life. I’m tired of this ****.

 

[Twiggidy]

Damn, they arrested a guy that wasn’t even driving. Is it normal to be arrested that way? Cops should have just impounded the car and call an Uber for him.

Uber is a good suggestion and in the long term would save a lot of trouble and tax payer money. Although remember, arrest stats are GOOD thing in law enforcement (watch Season 3 of The Wire)

Yes, you can absolutely be charged with a DUI in a parked car. Happened to a classmate of mine in med school. He went to jail and is alive to talk about it. He also has MD after his name now.

 

[deleted87051]

Uber is a good suggestion and in the long term would save a lot of trouble and tax payer money. Although remember, arrest stats are GOOD thing in law enforcement (watch Season 3 of The Wire)

Yes, you can absolutely be charged with a DUI in a parked car. Happened to a classmate of mine in med school. He went to jail and is alive to talk about it. He also has MD after his name now.

So it’s not a good idea to sleep off the booze in your car before you start driving? I thought people do that.

 

[Twiggidy]

So it’s not a good idea to sleep off the booze in your car before you start driving? I thought people do that.

Not in the driver seat. That’s the mistake a lot of people make. Sleep in the back seat. I think even sleeping in the passenger seat is a slippery slope.

 

[deleted162650]

So it’s not a good idea to sleep off the booze in your car before you start driving? I thought people do that.

Sure, but you can’t do it in the driver’s seat. Lay down in the back, and make sure the keys are nowhere near the ignition.

 

[deleted162650]

Looks like @Twiggidy beat me to it. Great minds . . .

 

[chocomorsel]

I suppose you could spin it that way. You could also say these cops spent 30 minutes trying to talk down this guy (fact). He then decides to fight them while they attempt a lawful arrest (and by the way, he looks to be about a foot taller and 100 lbs heavier than the cop I saw in the video. In the scuffle he takes something from his partner (theres no evidence they are sure it was the taser), ran and pointed what looked like a gun at the cop who subsequently shoots him.

again, world of difference from Floyd. Could the cops have handled that better? Probably. But firings/arrests (not to mention violent protests and property destruction) from this incident before we have more evidence? And how the liberal media is spinning it? Pretty bad as well....

The police chief said in his press conference that the suspect took a taser.
He would know hopefully since he said he watched all angles of the video.
If these firings don’t happen, and some charges are brought up in many instances, will the police have incentives to change their practices?
I stand by my assertion that police in this country are too quick to pull the trigger.
I also wonder how quickly they would have been to pull the trigger on a woman who was behaving belligerently due to drunkenness.

 

[marr65]

Uber is a good suggestion and in the long term would save a lot of trouble and tax payer money. Although remember, arrest stats are GOOD thing in law enforcement (watch Season 3 of The Wire)

Yes, you can absolutely be charged with a DUI in a parked car. Happened to a classmate of mine in med school. He went to jail and is alive to talk about it. He also has MD after his name now.

Man, learned something new.

 

[chocomorsel]

" If these firings don’t happen, and some charges are brought up in many instances, will the police have incentives to change their practices? " You are a charming soul for thinking the police will make changes based on "incentives", they have had enough and don't.

I am hoping that times are achanging now. Keep hope alive!!!

 

[chocomorsel]

Rayshard Brooks - one of the first questions he was asked was ‘are you carrying a weapon?’ He said ‘No’. He was then patted down and no weapon was found.

The problem here is that we have a cop acting as judge and jury and delivering capital punishment after a DUI and a SCUFFLE. It was clear he wrestled a taser from one cop and fired it at the other WHILE RUNNING AWAY. COPS HAVE TO STOP DOING THIS ****!!!

Abolish police unions. Change the way they’re trained. Have fewer of them if they aren’t willing to take up the job asked of them. Force them to live in the cities in which they SERVE. They should be STEWARDS of the law. Not judge and jury. I’m tired of white cops and white men delivering capital punishment to African American men as if they are judge and jury. For walking on a construction site. Or sitting in your car drunk. Or having a scuffle. Or walking down the street. Or sitting in your car telling a cop you have a licensed firearm. Or walking through a Wal Mart with an unboxed BB gun. Or whatever other ridiculous situations African American men have been killed by white cops. THEY KNEW HE WAS UNARMED.

He didn’t deserve to lose his life. I’m tired of this ****.

100% concur. And I disagree with my buddy @Twiggidy on this one. A taser is not going to kill you. At least it's very very unlikely to kill you. That is all he had and they knew it. I would definitely not be OK with this if this was my family and certainly not OK with this now.
I am going to say again, that maybe police need to learn a little something from European Cops on how to handle certain situations. The mentally ill, the drunk, the people on drugs. It doesn't have to always be met with deadly force.

Have you guys seen the video of the guy from Last year somewhere in the Southern states? Killed by the cop and guard and then dragged in jail cell and then afterwards his heart stopped. I bet it had already stopped before they put him in the cell. No one seemed to care really. He was limp and you could see them checking for a pulse or respirations.

Are cops not trained in CPR? Or do they just not give a damn?

Edit: I just tried to google "mentally ill man killed by police in 2019" and story after story keeps coming up. How many mentally ill people have been killed by cops instead of restrained and taken to the hospital. This is disgusting. I didn't think I would see so many different stories.

This all needs to stop.

 

[Lawpy]

Abolish all police unions nationwide!

 

[Lawpy]

I am hoping that times are achanging now. Keep hope alive!!!

We're far worse off now compared to the Obama presidency though. I miss 2009-2017.

 

[chocomorsel]

George Floyd wasn’t the first victim of police violence. Families of North Texas victims want to remind us of that

With each day of social reckoning since the world watched George Floyd’s 8 minutes and 46 seconds of agony on a Minneapolis street, I can’t shake this...

www.dallasnews.com

 

[vector2]

This guy’s channel where he as a person color tests the intersection of the Constitution, 2A, open carry, and racism by showing up near police property with a firearm and a camera.....the videos have really got something for everybody to like or hate (@pgg , @ShockIndex )

 

[Lawpy]

George Floyd wasn’t the first victim of police violence. Families of North Texas victims want to remind us of that

With each day of social reckoning since the world watched George Floyd’s 8 minutes and 46 seconds of agony on a Minneapolis street, I can’t shake this...

www.dallasnews.com

Based on your experiences, how are the current protests different from the original BLM that started back in 2014 or so? Like i get that now is more ripe to social unrest because of crappy lockdowns tanking the economy. But they both stress the same issues on police brutality that has been emphasized repeatedly for even several decades.

The problem is the police culture is looking to be increasingly worse and more militarized as time goes on that protests will only end up ignored again!

 

[chocomorsel]

Based on your experiences, how are the current protests different from the original BLM that started back in 2014 or so? Like i get that now is more ripe to social unrest because of crappy lockdowns tanking the economy. But they both stress the same issues on police brutality that has been emphasized repeatedly for even several decades.

The problem is the police culture is looking to be increasingly worse and more militarized as time goes on that protests will only end up ignored again!

I feel they are different now because they seem to be lasting a lot longer AND more importantly we now have way more Caucasians involved. And since they have the advantage of being listened to more and having more power, I am hopeful that this time things will change. BLM in the past was considered fringe and even terroristic by some people. Today it's mostly considered a civil rights group IMHO.

 

[Twiggidy]

100% concur. And I disagree with my buddy @Twiggidy on this one. A taser is not going to kill you. At least it's very very unlikely to kill you. That is all he had and they knew it. I would definitely not be OK with this if this was my family and certainly not OK with this now.
I am going to say again, that maybe police need to learn a little something from European Cops on how to handle certain situations. The mentally ill, the drunk, the people on drugs. It doesn't have to always be met with deadly force.

Have you guys seen the video of the guy from Last year somewhere in the Southern states? Killed by the cop and guard and then dragged in jail cell and then afterwards his heart stopped. I bet it had already stopped before they put him in the cell. No one seemed to care really. He was limp and you could see them checking for a pulse or respirations.

Are cops not trained in CPR? Or do they just not give a damn?

Edit: I just tried to google "mentally ill man killed by police in 2019" and story after story keeps coming up. How many mentally ill people have been killed by cops instead of restrained and taken to the hospital. This is disgusting. I didn't think I would see so many different stories.

This all needs to stop.

I really do hear where you’re coming from and I 100% agree that police need to focus more on de-escalation, but let’s be realistic here, you can’t shoot a taser at a police officer and expect to explain yourself the next day. Guy is shooting taser at me, sure it may not be deadly, but what if it incompacitates me? Damn now he can grab my gun and now my life is in danger. Those thoughts probably went through his mind a whole lot faster than it took me to type this post. Sorry. Bad move by Mr. Brooks. Take the L and go sober up in jail. My a** isn’t even shooting a water gun at the police.

But this is me responding as an educated professional. I know better than to wrestle with the police.

 

[doctalaughs]

I really do hear where you’re coming from and I 100% agree that police need to focus more on de-escalation, but let’s be realistic here, you can’t shoot a taser at a police officer and expect to explain yourself the next day. Guy is shooting taser at me, sure it may not be deadly, but what if it incompacitates me? Damn now he can grab my gun and now my life is in danger. Those thoughts probably went through his mind a whole lot faster than it took me to type this post. Sorry. Bad move by Mr. Brooks. Take the L and go sober up in jail. My a** isn’t even shooting a water gun at the police.

But this is me responding as an educated professional. I know better than to wrestle with the police.

This 100%.
Not sayin the cops in this situation acted perfectly but cmon - he made a bad call in a high-adrenaline situation. Fired? Maybe. Charged with a crime for defending himself? Uhh.

Also everyone stop saying “scuffle” (makes it sound like it’s okay and normal) and call these things what they are - assaulting a police officer.

 

[Southpaw]

I really do hear where you’re coming from and I 100% agree that police need to focus more on de-escalation, but let’s be realistic here, you can’t shoot a taser at a police officer and expect to explain yourself the next day. Guy is shooting taser at me, sure it may not be deadly, but what if it incompacitates me? Damn now he can grab my gun and now my life is in danger. Those thoughts probably went through his mind a whole lot faster than it took me to type this post. Sorry. Bad move by Mr. Brooks. Take the L and go sober up in jail. My a** isn’t even shooting a water gun at the police.

But this is me responding as an educated professional. I know better than to wrestle with the police.

There were two of them. They’re both armed. One of him. He wasn’t. He’s dead. They’re both alive. We get ONE chance to live. Life is sacred.

I would not question, argue with, or even think about putting my hands on a cop. I do the whole yes sir no sir deal with them. And I’m paying their salary. They need to learn to be stewards of the law. Not dudes on power trips always trying to maintain control of situations they escalate.

 

[Southpaw]

This 100%.
Not sayin the cops in this situation acted perfectly but cmon - he made a bad call in a high-adrenaline situation. Fired? Maybe. Charged with a crime for defending himself? Uhh.

Also everyone stop saying “scuffle” (makes it sound like it’s okay and normal) and call these things what they are - assaulting a police officer.

Made a bad call? He took a life!!!

Scuffle. Fight. Wrestle. Call it whatever you want. I’ve never scuffled with anyone in my entire life and watching the video it looked like a scuffle. Call it a fight if it makes you happy. I’m not downplaying what Rayshard did. It was wrong. But it wasn’t justice served by losing his life.

 

[deleted87051]

Compare and contrast time. This is 3 years ago in California.

Dude has 9 lives. WTAF. Is it the button down shirt?

 

[chocomorsel]

Compare and contrast time. This is 3 years ago in California.

Dude has 9 lives. WTAF. Is it the button down shirt?

And that last line right there. “Good thing he ain’t black, they would have been killed him”.
Come on people, wake up! I couldn’t see his race myself and was wondering why they hadn’t killed him?
For real, I was thinking this cop has tremendous self restraint.
And then the pin dropped.

 

[chocomorsel]

This 100%.
Not sayin the cops in this situation acted perfectly but cmon - he made a bad call in a high-adrenaline situation. Fired? Maybe. Charged with a crime for defending himself? Uhh.

Also everyone stop saying “scuffle” (makes it sound like it’s okay and normal) and call these things what they are - assaulting a police officer.

Please google “mentally ill people killed by cops”. And read story after story of family wanting answers and police hardly ever being prosecuted.
And then come back and tell us you think Cops are justified.
I am not saying all cops are bad, but clearly these stories tell you that they are NOT trained well when it comes to DEESCALATION.
I stand by my assertion that they are too quick to pull the trigger.

 

[doctalaughs]

Please google “mentally ill people killed by cops”. And read story after story of family wanting answers and police hardly ever being prosecuted.
And then come back and tell us you think Cops are justified.
I am not saying all cops are bad, but clearly these stories tell you that they are NOT trained well when it comes to DEESCALATION.
I stand by my assertion that they are too quick to pull the trigger.

I am not talking about the many stories on the internet. I’m talking about this very specific situation.

If we are talking in generalities- yes, I agree with you that cops are too quick to pull the trigger. I actually agree with you even in this situation (not handled ideally).

However there is a difference between corrupt/criminal/racist cops and this. Do you think 1) officer should be charged with a crime? 2) officer should have been fired immediately? 3) the police chief had to resign. 4) the protests/riots (in this specific incident) are justified 5) the media should be stirring this particular pot? 6) BLM should have this as part of their rallying cry?

In my eyes it doesn’t matter what you did BEFORE you assault a cop and saying “fight” etc is still sugar-coating because that sounds like two middle-schoolers spitting and shoving before someone starts swinging. They spent 30 min trying to de-escalate and there was only ONE person who initiated.

 

[Lawpy]

The media is total garbage but the protests are justified. I'm pushing for massive police reforms that involve abolishing the police unions, demilitarizing the cops and eliminate the police culture of cops treating the public as the enemy.

 

[Lawpy]

Opinion | Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police (Published 2020)

Because reform won’t happen.

www.nytimes.com

I'm going to push to abolish gun control laws in direct opposition to calls to abolish the police.

 

[chocomorsel]

I am not talking about the many stories on the internet. I’m talking about this very specific situation.

If we are talking in generalities- yes, I agree with you that cops are too quick to pull the trigger. I actually agree with you even in this situation (not handled ideally).

However there is a difference between corrupt/criminal/racist cops and this. Do you think 1) officer should be charged with a crime? 2) officer should have been fired immediately? 3) the police chief had to resign. 4) the protests/riots (in this specific incident) are justified 5) the media should be stirring this particular pot? 6) BLM should have this as part of their rallying cry?

In my eyes it doesn’t matter what you did BEFORE you assault a cop and saying “fight” etc is still sugar-coating because that sounds like two middle-schoolers spitting and shoving before someone starts swinging. They spent 30 min trying to de-escalate and there was only ONE person who initiated.

1. Yes, the officer should be charged with a crime. The specifics of that crime, I am an unsure of because I am not a lawyer and don't know legalese, but he took someone's life unnecessarily.
2. Yes, he should have been fired immediately.
3. I am unsure of the police chief resigning honestly based on just one incident. However, I don't know the history of this police chief's tenure and I don't know if there have been multiple incidents where police used too much force to restrain a civilian or killed a civilian but what recently comes to mind is those two college students who got tased in their cars during the protests.
4. The protests are justified. Can't say I agree with burning down Wendy's but it's insured I bet. I hate fast food so yeah, burn them all🙂
5. The media is always stirring the pot. It's reporting what it thinks is unbiased news but we all know they are biased.
6. BLM should yes have this as part of their rallying cry.

I know that you are asking about this specific incident. However, you can't just take one incident alone and ignore all the other incidents that I am trying to point you to. BLM is not just fighting one incident. It's fighting multiple incidents where cops have killed people needlessly because clearly their training is flawed and needs to be completely overhauled. They are going out there and looking at us as adversarial and as the enemy even when we are mentally ill and in distress, even when we do stupid stuff that is petty, even when we get into a "scuffle" or a "fight" with them. Two kids in a playground spitting at each other and then one starts swinging does not lead to death now does it? Leads to a black eye, maybe a broken bone, but not something one cannot recover from. Think about it.

And then my question to you is, look at @nimbus video and answer me this. Was that police officer justified in NOT shooting that man who had multiple attempts to hurt and even kill him?

 

[chocomorsel]

And there have been multiple incidents that prove that you can still act right, not fight and still end up dead. Even when sleeping in your own bed, minding your business in your own house, driving your own car and getting pulled over because you "look like a suspect" etc.
I am with @Lawper here.

 

[Twiggidy]

And there have been multiple incidents that prove that you can still act right, not fight and still end up dead. Even when sleeping in your own bed, minding your business in your own house, driving your own car and getting pulled over because you "look like a suspect" etc.
I am with @Lawper here.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you on this notion. (Well, maybe one person on this thread may disagree with you) I'm just saying in this particular situation the police weren't exactly in the wrong with the outcome. The MOST DEFINITELY could have handled it different-- such as Uber, drive him home, call someone to pick him-- there are a handful of ways to handle a drunk citizen, especially one who isn't in the act of driving. The same can be true that he resisted arrest, took a police's weapon, and fired it at him. That's like 3 felonies right there in addition to the "technical" DUI. I'd feel the same way about this situation if it was a drunk white guy who got into it with two black cops.

Again, you are 1000% correct in that Dr. Twiggidy can "yes sir, no sir, here's my license sir" all day and still end up like Philando Castille. I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't make a good juror for the prosecution in this particular case.

 

[Southpaw]

I am not talking about the many stories on the internet. I’m talking about this very specific situation.

If we are talking in generalities- yes, I agree with you that cops are too quick to pull the trigger. I actually agree with you even in this situation (not handled ideally).

However there is a difference between corrupt/criminal/racist cops and this. Do you think 1) officer should be charged with a crime? 2) officer should have been fired immediately? 3) the police chief had to resign. 4) the protests/riots (in this specific incident) are justified 5) the media should be stirring this particular pot? 6) BLM should have this as part of their rallying cry?

In my eyes it doesn’t matter what you did BEFORE you assault a cop and saying “fight” etc is still sugar-coating because that sounds like two middle-schoolers spitting and shoving before someone starts swinging. They spent 30 min trying to de-escalate and there was only ONE person who initiated.

There was no de-escalation because there wasn't even an escalation until they tried to cuff him. They stood there and talked for > 30 minutes. The answers to your questions are 1) yes 2) yes 3) yes 4) yes 5) the media hold an extremely important role but they're playing their part in this country's diviseness

Honestly, why cuff the guy? The answer from cops would amount to 'because it's what we were trained to do' or 'it's standard procedure for a DUI' or some bull**** like that. Consider the fact that the guy complied with everything the cops did. He talked with them respectfully. He did the breathalyzer. He didn't speed off or endanger others lives. They could've just driven Rayshard downtown, uncuffed, and charged him with a DUI.

You are thinking what the cops did was reasonable because of one simple reason-

You are working in the mental framework of our current system. You are not accepting that the way we current police our neighborhoods is completely ****ed.

If you come to the conclusion that our current way of policing black neighborhoods is just completely ****ed, and needs revamped, and the police system in the US needs to be completely broken down and rebuilt, then you conclude that what occured with Rayshard Brooks, and countless other black American men, isn't reasonable. It makes no sense. You simply can not justify, or walk away without serious, serious reprimand, where a black unarmed man is sleeping in a car and then dead 45 minutes later after his interaction with 2 white cops.

 

[chocomorsel]

I don't think anyone disagrees with you on this notion. (Well, maybe one person on this thread may disagree with you) I'm just saying in this particular situation the police weren't exactly in the wrong with the outcome. The MOST DEFINITELY could have handled it different-- such as Uber, drive him home, call someone to pick him-- there are a handful of ways to handle a drunk citizen, especially one who isn't in the act of driving. The same can be true that he resisted arrest, took a police's weapon, and fired it at him. That's like 3 felonies right there in addition to the "technical" DUI. I'd feel the same way about this situation if it was a drunk white guy who got into it with two black cops.

Again, you are 1000% correct in that Dr. Twiggidy can "yes sir, no sir, here's my license sir" all day and still end up like Philando Castille. I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't make a good juror for the prosecution in this particular case.

I also think that if we hadn't been raised in a society where there are so many "justifiable" shootings of people by the police like we see in this country, we would think differently.

I think they feel justifiable because that is what their training teaches them. But if you take this same scenario and put it in lets say a country where cops aren't running around shooting people but deescalating situations, then we would think otherwise of calling this a justifiable shooting.

The police officer in question obviously thinks it's justifiable and so do many others including you. Which is fine because that is what he was trained to do and that is what many people expect police to do. But until we start challenging these "justifiable" homicides, nothing will change. Not too long ago racism and killing people of color because some White woman yelled "rape" was justifiable in many areas and drew a crowd.

We need to change our way of thinking of what is "justifiable" behavior by police and the police for sure need to do that as well.

 

[chocomorsel]

There was no de-escalation because there wasn't even an escalation until they tried to cuff him. They stood there and talked for > 30 minutes. The answers to your questions are 1) yes 2) yes 3) yes 4) yes 5) the media hold an extremely important role but they're playing their part in this country's diviseness

Honestly, why cuff the guy? The answer from cops would amount to 'because it's what we were trained to do' or 'it's standard procedure for a DUI' or some bull**** like that. Consider the fact that the guy complied with everything the cops did. He talked with them respectfully. He did the breathalyzer. He didn't speed off or endanger others lives. They could've just driven Rayshard downtown, uncuffed, and charged him with a DUI.

You are thinking what the cops did was reasonable because of one simple reason-

You are working in the mental framework of our current system. You are not accepting that the way we current police our neighborhoods is completely ****ed.

If you come to the conclusion that our current way of policing black neighborhoods is just completely ****ed, and needs revamped, and the police system in the US needs to be completely broken down and rebuilt, then you conclude that what occured with Rayshard Brooks, and countless other black American men, isn't reasonable. It makes no sense. You simply can not justify, or walk away without serious, serious reprimand, where a black unarmed man is sleeping in a car and then dead 45 minutes later after his interaction with 2 white cops.

You are echoing my sentiments exactly. We are typing at the exact same time writing essentially the same damn thing!!!

 

[Southpaw]

If you can reasonably conclude it's okay to kill unarmed black men when they resist arrest by armed white cops then you are mentally buying into a system that MUST hit the reset button. This stuff just can't continue. MAGA has amplified the problem. We have to be willing to sit down, acknowledge it's a systemic issue, and work together as a country to solve it.

Looking at specific instances like 'hey well in THIS situation it was justified' or 'okay okay so this was wrong HERE' or 'well I mean he DID resist arrest a little bit here right?' is like missing the forest for the trees. Step back, look at the whole game, and realize it's completely jacked and the people in power aren't treating a whole segment of our society respectfully and haven't for hundreds of years.

America will not get past racism in my lifetime.

 

[Twiggidy]

There was no de-escalation because there wasn't even an escalation until they tried to cuff him. They stood there and talked for > 30 minutes. The answers to your questions are 1) yes 2) yes 3) yes 4) yes 5) the media hold an extremely important role but they're playing their part in this country's diviseness

Honestly, (1) why cuff the guy? The answer from cops would amount to 'because it's what we were trained to do' or 'it's standard procedure for a DUI' or some bull**** like that. Consider the fact that the guy complied with everything the cops did. He talked with them respectfully. He did the breathalyzer. He didn't speed off or endanger others lives. (2) They could've just driven Rayshard downtown, uncuffed, and charged him with a DUI.

You are thinking what the cops did was reasonable because of one simple reason-

You are working in the mental framework of our current system. You are not accepting that the way we current police our neighborhoods is completely ****ed.

If you come to the conclusion that our current way of policing black neighborhoods is just completely ****ed, and needs revamped, and the police system in the US needs to be completely broken down and rebuilt, then you conclude that what occured with Rayshard Brooks, and countless other black American men, isn't reasonable. It makes no sense. You simply can not justify, or walk away without serious, serious reprimand, where a black unarmed man is sleeping in a car and then dead 45 minutes later after his interaction with 2 white cops.

(1) Because he’s under arrest for DUI. Plain and simple. That’s where people get in trouble. The minute you say “no” to the cuffs, now you’re resisting arrest. That’s now 2 charges. When you get physical that’s 3 charges. It very well may be standard procedure to arrest people for DUI. We do things in anesthesia that is standard procedure all the time and we get very annoyed when other specialties try to tell us to deviate from a standard procedure. That’s not to say that we can’t do parts of our procedure better/safer/etc.

It’s sucks and it’s embarassing and it’s probably even a violation of rights but if you get in the cuffs and sit on the sidewalk and ask “Is there are charge here?” They’ll either say ”No” and have to let you go or they’ll tell you what you’re charged with and you just have to take the loss and go to jail. *emphasis* I am not here saying that police don’t arrest people without charges *end emphasis* Of course there are some dirty police out there.

(2) That’s what they were trying to do until Mr. Brooks didn’t comply.

 

[Twiggidy]

I also think that if we hadn't been raised in a society where there are so many "justifiable" shootings of people by the police like we see in this country, we would think differently.

I think they feel justifiable because that is what their training teaches them. But if you take this same scenario and put it in lets say a country where cops aren't running around shooting people but deescalating situations, then we would think otherwise of calling this a justifiable shooting.

The police officer in question obviously thinks it's justifiable and so do many others including you. Which is fine because that is what he was trained to do and that is what many people expect police to do. But until we start challenging these "justifiable" homicides, nothing will change. Not too long ago racism and killing people of color because some White woman yelled "rape" was justifiable in many areas and drew a crowd.

We need to change our way of thinking of what is "justifiable" behavior by police and the police for sure need to do that as well.

The burden also lies with DAs, prosecutors, and juries. The police can say a shooting is justifiable, but it’s these parties who don’t charge, don’t prosecute, and don’t convict are the one’s who empower them. It’s not different from the toddler who does something wrong and the parent doesn’t punish them........which as been said above, leads to the problem of police unions. Not so different from nursing unions when you really look at it.

 

[doctalaughs]

There was no de-escalation because there wasn't even an escalation until they tried to cuff him. They stood there and talked for > 30 minutes. The answers to your questions are 1) yes 2) yes 3) yes 4) yes 5) the media hold an extremely important role but they're playing their part in this country's diviseness

Honestly, why cuff the guy? The answer from cops would amount to 'because it's what we were trained to do' or 'it's standard procedure for a DUI' or some bull**** like that. Consider the fact that the guy complied with everything the cops did. He talked with them respectfully. He did the breathalyzer. He didn't speed off or endanger others lives. They could've just driven Rayshard downtown, uncuffed, and charged him with a DUI.

You are thinking what the cops did was reasonable because of one simple reason-

You are working in the mental framework of our current system. You are not accepting that the way we current police our neighborhoods is completely ****ed.

If you come to the conclusion that our current way of policing black neighborhoods is just completely ****ed, and needs revamped, and the police system in the US needs to be completely broken down and rebuilt, then you conclude that what occured with Rayshard Brooks, and countless other black American men, isn't reasonable. It makes no sense. You simply can not justify, or walk away without serious, serious reprimand, where a black unarmed man is sleeping in a car and then dead 45 minutes later after his interaction with 2 white cops.

Don’t think you are getting my point. Up until the 30 seconds he assaulted the cop and tried to use their taser on them, it’s irrelevant what he was doing prior. The interaction (on both sides) was very appropriate.

The act of committing 2 serious felonies in those 30 seconds directly led to his death. Police could have handled it better — but this is not one of those “sleeping in my bed minding my own business” cases so don’t try to conflate the two. Everyone except a few fringe People agree that sort of thing needs to stop. I feel BLM and protesters are destroying their own credibility when they conflate like that.

 

[chocomorsel]

The burden also lies with DAs, prosecutors, and juries. The police can say a shooting is justifiable, but it’s these parties who don’t charge, don’t prosecute, and don’t convict are the one’s who empower them. It’s not different from the toddler who does something wrong and the parent doesn’t punish them........which as been said above, leads to the problem of police unions. Not so different from nursing unions when you really look at it.

Hopefully now they will change and listen to the cries of the public. But we can't also keep enabling them by saying this is "justifiable" when they can be trained to use less lethal force to handle belligerent people.
Good thing the DA seems to be in agreement with some of us on this one.
Again, it was a taser. Not a gun. Not even a knife.

 

[Southpaw]

(1) Because he’s under arrest for DUI. Plain and simple. That’s where people get in trouble. The minute you say “no” to the cuffs, now you’re resisting arrest. That’s now 2 charges. When you get physical that’s 3 charges. It very well may be standard procedure to arrest people for DUI. We do things in anesthesia that is standard procedure all the time and we get very annoyed when other specialties try to tell us to deviate from a standard procedure. That’s not to say that we can’t do parts of our procedure better/safer/etc.

It’s sucks and it’s embarassing and it’s probably even a violation of rights but if you get in the cuffs and sit on the sidewalk and ask “Is there are charge here?” They’ll either say ”No” and have to let you go or they’ll tell you what you’re charged with and you just have to take the loss and go to jail. *emphasis* I am not here saying that police don’t arrest people without charges *end emphasis* Of course there are some dirty police out there.

(2) That’s what they were trying to do until Mr. Brooks didn’t comply.

We do standard things in anesthesia and also accept it's perfectly reasonable to do things your own way to achieve the successful end result. Noyac just did a shoulder on a big fat lady with no functioning alveoli with a block and a LMA. Others do that case with an aline, ETT, and IV opioids. It's fine. It's okay to not do the same thing everytime. We accept that, smile, pat one another on the back and say 'nice job'. We're cool like that.

If Mr. Brooks doesn't want to be cuffed, find a reasonable different solution. He was complying with the officers, even repeatedly referring to one of them as 'Mr. Rolfe' in a respectful manner. Our police work for us. They are paid by us. They have to find ways to calm situations and de-escalate them. Not continually maintain control at all costs. If an unarmed man doesn't comply with what you're doing, it can't end in bullets every time because they didn't comply with 'our standard'.

 

[Lawpy]

FDA Pulls Emergency Covid-19-Use Approval for Hydroxychloroquine, Taken by Trump

The FDA has revoked its emergency-use authorization for two malaria drugs, chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, for the treatment of the Covid-19 disease. President Trump, who touted the drugs, said he took hydroxychloroquine as preventive.

www.wsj.com

 

[chocomorsel]

Don’t think you are getting my point. Up until the 30 seconds he assaulted the cop and tried to use their taser on them, it’s irrelevant what he was doing prior. The interaction (on both sides) was very appropriate.

The act of committing 2 serious felonies in those 30 seconds directly led to his death. Police could have handled it better — but this is not one of those “sleeping in my bed minding my own business” cases so don’t try to conflate the two. Everyone except a few fringe People agree that sort of thing needs to stop. I feel BLM and protesters are destroying their own credibility when they conflate like that.

That was me who said the "in bed minding your own business". But of course you are going to ignore my question to you about the other posted video. Or maybe you are busy working. I am off. I will wait.

 

[Twiggidy]

We do standard things in anesthesia and also accept it's perfectly reasonable to do things your own way to achieve the successful end result. Noyac just did a shoulder on a big fat lady with no functioning alveoli with a block and a LMA. Others do that case with an aline, ETT, and IV opioids. It's fine. It's okay to not do the same thing everytime. We accept that, smile, pat one another on the back and say 'nice job'. We're cool like that.

If Mr. Brooks doesn't want to be cuffed, find a reasonable different solution. He was complying with the officers, even repeatedly referring to one of them as 'Mr. Rolfe' in a respectful manner. Our police work for us. They are paid by us. They have to find ways to calm situations and de-escalate them. Not continually maintain control at all costs. If an unarmed man doesn't comply with what you're doing, it can't end in bullets every time because they didn't comply with 'our standard'.

Wait, so now we not handcuffing people who are under arrest? Ok, so now I’m the police and I’m listening to you. I need to arrest someone with a charge of DUI. I have a legitimate reason to place him under arrest. What do I do?

 

[Twiggidy]

So I got in touch with my relative who worked as a patrol officer and then a detective. She said in her city "the officer has the option of calling an Uber for a DUI but that varies from state to state."

So these things we're talking about are actually on the table.

She also added that now many cities are opting for issuing citations instead due to jail/prison overcrowding. Again, I'm sure that varies state to state.

Update:
Text response

 

[doctalaughs]

That was me who said the "in bed minding your own business". But of course you are going to ignore my question to you about the other posted video. Or maybe you are busy working. I am off. I will wait.

sorry I am working. What question was it I didn’t answer?

I already responded to the videos and agree that there are plenty of criminal excessive uses of force but yet to be convinced this is one of them.

in regards to southpaw saying this should be part of the narrative and not considered separate- where do you draw the line? If he didn’t have a partner cop and was afraid the taser would disable him, then allow for the suspect to kill him would it then be justified? How about just a baseball bat? Each case is different and has to be considered on its own merit.

I can get outraged about Floyd or the girl who got shot in bed with a no-knock warrant. This Isn’t related in any way to those cases, in my mind.

 

[AMEHigh]

There’s a video (and I’m sure there’s more than 1 of similar incidences) of a man at a bus stop sleeping. I’m not going to post it as I couldn’t even finish watching it as he gets killed. Apparently someone called because he was sleeping there. At least 4 officers (But I think there were more based on what I read) with "machine guns" (Im sorry if that’s not the technical term, I know very little about guns). Well they yell him to wake up and keep his hands away from his waist band.

Anyway, to make a long story short they ultimately end up shooting and killing him. They all fire at him. I believe he wasn’t following commands to keep his hands out of his waist band and they "feared for their lives."

But that’s the kind of thing that’s infuriating. I see plenty of homeless people. Sometimes I ask if they’re ok if they look like they’re in distress. Never once have I been scared for my life when approaching or being around a homeless person. And yelling at them while standing there with large guns is obviously not going to help the situation. It makes no sense that people are ok with this.

 

[doctalaughs]

There’s a video (and I’m sure there’s more than 1 of similar incidences) of a man at a bus stop sleeping. I’m not going to post it as I couldn’t even finish watching it as he gets killed. Apparently someone called because he was sleeping there. At least 4 officers (But I think there were more based on what I read) with "machine guns" (Im sorry if that’s not the technical term, I know very little about guns). Well they yell him to wake up and keep his hands away from his waist band.

Anyway, to make a long story short they ultimately end up shooting and killing him. They all fire at him. I believe he wasn’t following commands to keep his hands out of his waist band and they "feared for their lives."

But that’s the kind of thing that’s infuriating. I see plenty of homeless people. Sometimes I ask if they’re ok if they look like they’re in distress. Never once have I been scared for my life when approaching or being around a homeless person. And yelling at them while standing there with large guns is obviously not going to help the situation. It makes no sense that people are ok with this.

Who are you talking about that is OK with the situation you describe?

What does that have to do with assaulting a cop with his own taser after driving drunk and passing out in a drive thru lane of a fast food restaurant?

 

[AMEHigh]

Who are you talking about that is OK with the situation you describe?

What does that have to do with assaulting a cop with his own taser after driving drunk and passing out in a drive thru lane of a fast food restaurant?

I've seen more than 1 person online and in person expressing confusion as to why people are protesting against how current policing is handled. When given examples like the one above they just say "well it's just 1 bad apple" and don't think it's a larger problem in regards to how police came to be in this country and the power they have and use. There are a lot of people that want things to continue the way that they currently are, so that is who I'm talking about that is ok with the situation I described.

I didn't say it had anything directly to do with assaulting a cop and a taser (I haven't read every single post in this tread, so my apologies if I missed something).
However, it absolutely has to do with "the system" and people getting killed for unnecessary reasons.
I've dealt with my share of disgruntled or aggressive or mentally ill or on substances patients in the outpatient setting (and I'm sure many of you all have as well), yet I've managed not to kill any of them.

 

[vector2]

Wait, so now we not handcuffing people who are under arrest? Ok, so now I’m the police and I’m listening to you. I need to arrest someone with a charge of DUI. I have a legitimate reason to place him under arrest. What do I do?

Rashard commits a non-violent crime and doesn't want the handcuffs to be put on. He winds up dead.


Old powerful white guy commits a non-violent crime and doesn't want handcuffs put on:

"
Chicago Alderman Ed Burke, charged with federal corruption, wasn’t forced into a squad car in cuffs or paraded in a “perp walk” for the cameras. Instead, the 75-year-old lawyer, wearing a pinstriped suit and fedora paired with a tan overcoat and pink tie, was allowed to surrender without fanfare with his lawyers at the federal courthouse downtown.

To perp walk or not: When do white-collar defendants get to surrender peacefully?

The ABA Journal is read by half of the nation's 1 million lawyers every month. It covers the trends, people and finances of the legal profession from Wall Street to Main Street to Pennsylvania Avenue.

www.abajournal.com

"




Also, a classic for the ages:

Tron Carter's "Law & Order" - Uncensored - Chappelle's Show | Comedy Central US

Tron beats a drug rap in a different reality.

www.cc.com