The ultimate COVID thread

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vector2 said:
Rashard commits a non-violent crime and doesn't want the handcuffs to be put on. He winds up dead.


Old powerful white guy commits a non-violent crime and doesn't want handcuffs put on:

"
Chicago Alderman Ed Burke, charged with federal corruption, wasn’t forced into a squad car in cuffs or paraded in a “perp walk” for the cameras. Instead, the 75-year-old lawyer, wearing a pinstriped suit and fedora paired with a tan overcoat and pink tie, was allowed to surrender without fanfare with his lawyers at the federal courthouse downtown.
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He grabbed a police officer’s weapon. I would not expect to survive that encounter if I did that. And I am very white. Very different from the George Floyd situation.

Perp walks should be Illigal. The only reason to put handcuffs on someone is if they will not come willingly. This guy is showing up in court with his attorney to surrender. Why do you want to cuff him? Innocent until proven guilty...
 
dannyboy1 said:
He grabbed a police officer’s weapon. I would not expect to survive that encounter if I did that. And I am very white. Very different from the George Floyd situation.

Perp walks should be Illigal. The only reason to put handcuffs on someone is if they will not come willingly. This guy is showing up in court with his attorney to surrender. Why do you want to cuff him? Innocent until proven guilty...
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And yet there are situations, even shown in this thread, where white guys consistently survive.

I’m also white. So very white. And you cannot be an officer of the law and just do whatever the **** you want, and get off continually. You can’t kill unarmed people. We have to force accountability on our law officers. Our country deserves for them to treat ALL of us respectfully and for them to have accountability for their actions.

They shot Rayshard in the back.....
 
Southpaw said:
And yet there are situations, even shown in this thread, where white guys consistently survive.

I’m also white. So very white. And you cannot be an officer of the law and just do whatever the **** you want, and get off continually. You can’t kill unarmed people. We have to force accountability on our law officers. Our country deserves for them to treat ALL of us respectfully and for them to have accountability for their actions.

They shot Rayshard in the back.....
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I don’t agree with this shooting at all. My feeling is that a lot of cops are @$$holes and they are far to quick on the draw. That being said these cops did not seem at all like they were about to kneel on his neck for 9 minutes while he was already handcuffed. They were having a calm conversation with him, decided to bring him in for DUI. Any sane person at that point puts his hands behind his back says “yes officer” and complies. to struggle and grab the cops weapon is borderline suicidal.
 
Twiggidy said:
Wait, so now we not handcuffing people who are under arrest? Ok, so now I’m the police and I’m listening to you. I need to arrest someone with a charge of DUI. I have a legitimate reason to place him under arrest. What do I do?
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We are all very smart people. Not all people are the same so you can’t treat and arrive at the same solution for everyone. Cops must act in a similar manner. You want something specific but I think we can both settle on there’s a large swath of gray area between handcuffs and death.
 
doctalaughs said:
Who are you talking about that is OK with the situation you describe?

What does that have to do with assaulting a cop with his own taser after driving drunk and passing out in a drive thru lane of a fast food restaurant?
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Dude/dudette, there has been another video posted where a totally belligerent Non Black male attacked, chased the cop, got in his car and damn near ran the cop over, and he didn't get shot. Clearly, they are capable of not killing people. Especially some who try to ram ram them with vehicles and are clearly high on something or are manic or just have the strength of Thor and a taser doesn't do crap to them. There are other videos out there, one of a female cop getting her ass handed to her, but yet, she doesn't kill the non black perpetrator.

Yet, this dude gets killed after he tries to run away, while he's far away from the cop with a taser, may not even have been close enough to deploy the taser effectively, and you are defending this? Seriously?
 
dannyboy1 said:
He grabbed a police officer’s weapon. I would not expect to survive that encounter if I did that. And I am very white. Very different from the George Floyd situation.

Perp walks should be Illigal. The only reason to put handcuffs on someone is if they will not come willingly. This guy is showing up in court with his attorney to surrender. Why do you want to cuff him? Innocent until proven guilty...
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Oh I’m sorry, was Rashard convicted in a court of law before he died? They cops already had his info....Where was his option to have his car towed, walk to his sister’s house, sober up, consult with his attorney, and then turn himself in to the courthouse a week from Tuesday?
 
nimbus said:
thehill.com

Buffalo officials ask state to re-examine 2008 firing of black police officer who stopped white officer’s chokehold

Buffalo, N.Y., city council members on Tuesday voted to reopen the case of a police officer fired in 2008 after she intervened to prevent another officer from applying a chokehold on a suspect.The …
thehill.com thehill.com
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So I wonder what's gonna happen now. There are so many murders and homicides that could potentially be reopened. Is the statute of limitations for murder set state by state? And does it expire I wonder?
Oh boy.
 
vector2 said:
Oh I’m sorry, was Rashard convicted in a court of law before he died? They cops already had his info....Where was his option to have his car towed, walk to his sister’s house, sober up, consult with his attorney, and then turn himself in to the courthouse a week from Tuesday?
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I have no problem if they also slapped handcuffs on the rich white fraudsters. Just a distraction from arguing this particular case. The truth is that the handcuffs were not the issue. He wasn’t going to come with them either way and was prepared to use force against the cops (initiate it, too).

Was there another way this ended up better when they had a few seconds to made a decision? Probably. But how far do you want to take your judgement?

Should cops avoid force for someone who refuses to be cuffed and let a perp walk away in these situations:
- actively stealing a car?
- breaking windows of a business?
- burglarizing a residence?

Is it ok for them to routinely assault an officer (as long as they are unarmed)? So if I’m a fast runner I can go punch a cop and run away quickly and not risk any lethal force? Sounds like a good policy - placing someone under arrest is essentially “optional” then, depending on if they resist or not.
 
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doctalaughs said:
I have no problem if they also slapped handcuffs on the rich white fraudsters. Just a distraction from arguing this particular case. The truth is that the handcuffs were not the issue. He wasn’t going to come with them either way and was prepared to use force against the cops (initiate it, too).

Was there another way this ended up better when they had a few seconds to made a decision? Probably. But how far do you want to take your judgement?

Should cops avoid force for someone who refuses to be cuffed and let a perp walk away in these situations:
- actively stealing a car?
- breaking windows of a business?
- burglarizing a residence?

Is it ok for them to routinely assault an officer (as long as they are unarmed)? So if I’m a fast runner I can go punch a cop and run away quickly and not risk any lethal force? Sounds like a good policy - placing someone under arrest is essentially “optional” then, depending on if they resist or not.
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Are you seriously saying that punching a cop should be met with lethal force and is justifiable? Are you on crack?

In this specific situation, they could have let him run and caught up with him later because you know, they had all his information. There were two cops. Why couldn't the other cop jump in with his taser? I am assuming he had one since most cops do.

No one is saying they should avoid force. Just that they should try avoid LETHAL FORCE and UNNECESSARY FORCE. Are you not understanding the difference?
 
Many of you are probably aware of it, but here's a still ongoing thread of videos of police brutality, excessive force, and racism compiled from just the past 2-3 weeks. There's more than 500 vids so far.


This one from today caught my eye. It's from a year ago but it's a cop beating the living crap out of a patient restrained in a gurney in an ED. I don't think most of these guys can be trained to de-escalate. It's basically already been proven that won't work. If you were to do a root cause analysis, that would not be considered a realistic solution.
 
doctalaughs said:
I have no problem if they also slapped handcuffs on the rich white fraudsters. Just a distraction from arguing this particular case. The truth is that the handcuffs were not the issue. He wasn’t going to come with them either way and was prepared to use force against the cops (initiate it, too).

Was there another way this ended up better when they had a few seconds to made a decision? Probably. But how far do you want to take your judgement?

Should cops avoid force for someone who refuses to be cuffed and let a perp walk away in these situations:
- actively stealing a car?
- breaking windows of a business?
- burglarizing a residence?

Is it ok for them to routinely assault an officer (as long as they are unarmed)? So if I’m a fast runner I can go punch a cop and run away quickly and not risk any lethal force? Sounds like a good policy - placing someone under arrest is essentially “optional” then, depending on if they resist or not.
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A couple things: first, you are determined to paint this case as Rashard initially using force against a cop in the act of resisting arrest. There is no evidence of this since by all accounts he was attempting to run away from them, so it's entirely speculation to pretend that he was punching them or assaulting them vs vice versa when.the bodycam starts going shaky. Also, from a purely philosophical (not law) standpoint, they are the agents initiating the physical aggression and it is likely that there would have been zero violence if he starts running and they do not impede him from doing so.

Secondly, you are making a category error and trying to compare apples and oranges by comparing this situation to actively stealing a car, breaking windows of a business, or committing a burglary. In this all those situations, the perp is actively commiting physical destruction and putting somebody else's liberty/rights/property in danger. If you want to make a comparison that isn't nonsense, then you need to bring up a situation where the perp is drunk and is in the act of recklessly driving so directly putting other people or property in danger- not just parked and asleep in his car.
 
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I can't believe I'm just now discovering that these sort of "Constitution Audit" videos are a thing. There are dozens if not hundreds of them from people all over the country. Are these filmmakers being needlessly provocative by (legally) refusing to identify themselves, provide ID, or state what their business is? Sure- but I think the result that illustrates just how ignorant or bullying so many cops are and how often they purposefully try to violate your rights makes it worth it.











NNSC almost arrested!!?? Another Open Carry, Another Fail For LEOS
 
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vector2 said:
Oh I’m sorry, was Rashard convicted in a court of law before he died? They cops already had his info....Where was his option to have his car towed, walk to his sister’s house, sober up, consult with his attorney, and then turn himself in to the courthouse a week from Tuesday?
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Not defending the shooting. Like I have said I have a dim view of police in general, because a lot of them are just pricks. Plain and simple. That is why in my (albeit limited) interaction with police officers I am always polite, respectful, and compliant. Hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel and “yes officer” or “no officer”. Never in a million years would I try to physically fight the police or grab for their weapon. If I did and got shot it wouldn’t be racism. It would be because the cop was an @sshole and I was a *****...
 
vector2 said:
A couple things: first, you are determined to paint this case as Rashard initially using force against a cop in the act of resisting arrest. There is no evidence of this since by all accounts he was attempting to run away from them, so it's entirely speculation to pretend that he was punching them or assaulting them vs vice versa when.the bodycam starts going shaky. Also, from a purely philosophical (not law) standpoint, they are the agents initiating the physical aggression and it is likely that there would have been zero violence if he starts running and they do not impede him from doing so.

Secondly, you are making a category error and trying to compare apples and oranges by comparing this situation to actively stealing a car, breaking windows of a business, or committing a burglary. In this all those situations, the perp is actively commiting physical destruction and putting somebody else's liberty/rights/property in danger. If you want to make a comparison that isn't nonsense, then you need to bring up a situation where the perp is drunk and is in the act of recklessly driving so directly putting other people or property in danger- not just parked and asleep in his car.
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You are ignoring the fact he stole, pointed and by all accounts fired a taser at the police. This is, by definition, putting somebody else’s liberty/rights in danger. Or do the police not also count as people in your book?

If he just ran and did not do that last part, I would be wholly agreeing with you.
 
doctalaughs said:
You are ignoring the fact he stole, pointed and by all accounts fired a taser at the police. This is, by definition, putting somebody else’s liberty/rights in danger. Or do the police not also count as people in your book?

If he just ran and did not do that last part, I would be wholly agreeing with you.
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I know you are probably attempting to ignore me, but I am going to repeat again. It was a taser. And he was far away enough to where it likely wouldn't have worked anyway. And the cop had backup. The victim took the taser and was running away.
Would you defend the victim was your brother? Son? Father? Being a ***** and behaving stupidly while drunk should not equal a death sentence.

And no you should not be met with deadly force if you go up and slap a cop.
 
doctalaughs said:
You are ignoring the fact he stole, pointed and by all accounts fired a taser at the police. This is, by definition, putting somebody else’s liberty/rights in danger. Or do the police not also count as people in your book?

If he just ran and did not do that last part, I would be wholly agreeing with you.
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I'm not ignoring anything. But are you interested in who is actually initiating aggression and the who is resisting aggression in this situation (regardless of whether the law gives the right for police to do these things)? It doesn't seem so because you're using the same logic that would philosophically assign the blame to someone who was using physicality in their own defense. The police are the ones who get him out of the car, perform the field test, state they're going to arrest him, and try to put the handcuffs on- the aggressive actions. Rashard doesn't want the handcuffs on- resistive. Instead of deescalating, the police state they are going to tase him- aggressive. Rashard while struggling against the aggressors defensively goes for the weapon which someone just said he was going to use on him- resistive. Other cop starts chasing him- aggressive. Rashard running away- resistive. Cop continues to close on him and is certainly going to use some kind of physical force on him once he's in proximity- aggressive. Rashard, who is the one getting chased and likely in the midst of fight or flight, half-flails around and fires a defensive non-lethal taser shot- resistive. Cop, who still has backup, returns fire with lethal rounds...

You don't get to claim that someone who is trying to defend himself and then run away/remove himself from the situation is the one creating the immediate threat to somebody else's liberty/rights.

dannyboy1 said:
Not defending the shooting. Like I have said I have a dim view of police in general, because a lot of them are just pricks. Plain and simple. That is why in my (albeit limited) interaction with police officers I am always polite, respectful, and compliant. Hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel and “yes officer” or “no officer”. Never in a million years would I try to physically fight the police or grab for their weapon. If I did and got shot it wouldn’t be racism. It would be because the cop was an @sshole and I was a *****...
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Beyond the fact that none of us of any color should have to act like scared little puppies when interacting with officials whose salaries we pay, the salient point in general is that when these situations do happen to unarmed people, it seems unarmed black people die at statistically higher rates compared to other demographics.
 
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dannyboy1 said:
Not defending the shooting. Like I have said I have a dim view of police in general, because a lot of them are just pricks. Plain and simple. That is why in my (albeit limited) interaction with police officers I am always polite, respectful, and compliant. Hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel and “yes officer” or “no officer”. Never in a million years would I try to physically fight the police or grab for their weapon. If I did and got shot it wouldn’t be racism. It would be because the cop was an @sshole and I was a *****...
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dannyboy1 said:
Not defending the shooting. Like I have said I have a dim view of police in general, because a lot of them are just pricks. Plain and simple. That is why in my (albeit limited) interaction with police officers I am always polite, respectful, and compliant. Hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel and “yes officer” or “no officer”. Never in a million years would I try to physically fight the police or grab for their weapon. If I did and got shot it wouldn’t be racism. It would be because the cop was an @sshole and I was a *****...
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So because you are a ***** in a certain stupid situation, the the right dingus police is justified in taking your life?
Can you not see how wrong that is regardless of your skin color?

You people are so brainwashed. Do some reading on how police are trained and how they react to most situations in Europe and see their rates of killing people compared to ours. People who are unarmed or armed with knives. Because they don't have the guns over their like we do but they have knives and other weapons. See how many people they kill in comparison. See how long their training is compared to ours as has been mentioned by @vector2. See how they are trained to use deadly force and how they feel about it.

Police reform, getting rid of the damn police unions and their immunity, overhauling the whole system is very necessary. They are out of control. And if that means firing a bunch of them and hiring a bunch of new ones trained differently and over a longer duration of time to handle things more humanely and less aggressively, that will be good for ALL of us. Not just black and brown people. You all do know that they kill white people needlessly sometimes too right?
 
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chocomorsel said:
I know you are probably attempting to ignore me, but I am going to repeat again. It was a taser. And he was far away enough to where it likely wouldn't have worked anyway. And the cop had backup. The victim took the taser and was running away.
Would you defend the victim was your brother? Son? Father? Being a ***** and behaving stupidly while drunk should not equal a death sentence.

And no you should not be met with deadly force if you go up and slap a cop.
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I’m not ignoring you- I just disagree with you. Guns are the most likely to kill someone but any weapon can be deadly - bat, knife, taser or fist. A police taser is 30-50k peak voltage and sustained 1.5k, people hit their heads on the concrete, spasm violently and can be very seriously injured. It’s not a toy.

And yes, if I walk up to any person (cop or not) with an open-carry gun who knows how to use it and violently attack them (say, for arguing sake, I sucker punch them in the throat as hard as I can) I would expect them to shoot me on the spot. I would expect the same to happen to my relative. I would *hope* the other person/cop had the restraint, hand-to-hand ability and quick thinking not to kill me, but I would not expect less.

Again, agree with broader points about needed police reform. Agree that non-violent or restrained people cannot be brutalized and cops like that should be prosecuted. But when we allow “some” violence against lawful arrests or policing to be tolerated, that’s too much.
 
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chocomorsel said:
So because you are a ***** in a certain stupid situation, the the right dingus police is justified in taking your life?
Can you not see how wrong that is regardless of your skin color?
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Where did I say this was justified ? He didn’t deserve to die. Stupidity should not be punishable by death. The guy who OD’s on heroin or rides his motorcycle without a helmet also doesn’t deserve to die for it. But if you put yourself in bad situation $hit can happen...
 
dannyboy1 said:
Where did I say this was justified ? He didn’t deserve to die. Stupidity should not be punishable by death. The guy who OD’s on heroin or rides his motorcycle without a helmet also doesn’t deserve to die for it. But if you put yourself in bad situation $hit can happen...
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Exactly. No one is saying he deserved to die. Everyone agrees this is NOT ideal policing.

But in a volatile situation where there is a ***** who does unexpected/violent stuff mistakes happen. The guy should t be dead but also the cop isn’t a racist murderer (Unlike some other situations). Pushing that narrative just makes both sides entrench more.
 
doctalaughs said:
Exactly. No one is saying he deserved to die. Everyone agrees this is NOT ideal policing.

But in a volatile situation where there is a ***** who does unexpected/violent stuff mistakes happen. The guy should t be dead but also the cop isn’t a racist murderer (Unlike some other situations). Pushing that narrative just makes both sides entrench more.
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You are both saying that the police are justified in shooting him. Sure it's not the same as saying the victim "deserved to die". But guess what? No matter which way you try to spin it, the end result is still the same. The guy is dead for making a stupid decision that should not have cost him his life, that were it to happen in many countries in the Europe, I can pretty much guarantee, based on the numbers alone, that this guy would still be alive.

Again, you are all brainwashed by how the American cops run this country and treat its people. And continuing to talk about "justified" shootings that have been shown to have an alternate ending that isn't sealed in death, especially when there is evidence otherwise when perpetrators are of lighter hued complexion. This is is honestly really baffling to me.

He did not point a gun at the officers. That right there would have been "justified".

I haven't said anywhere that the policeman is a racist murderer. I don't think anyone here has. You guys are confusing the issue and really generalizing this whole BLM movement. We are just acknowledging that unconscious bias, brought on by years and years of systemic racism in this country plays a large part in the police shootings in this country which affect mostly black and brown people. Research shows that undoubtedly.

Do I think most White people in this country are openly racist? Nope. Do I think most white people in this country are affected by unconscious bias when it comes to black and brown people and culture? Absolutely. Even we in that said culture are affected by unconscious bias as well.

We on this board should be of above average intelligence enough to do some research on our own, see how other first world countries treat their criminals, not paint with a broad brush and generalize the BLM movement and acknowledge the fact that cops in this country literally get away with murder, homicide, manslaughter every single day. And are then given a pass by people like us when we know that there are better, less lethal and less aggressive ways to handle these situations. These cops should not keep getting passes because they are trained to be aggressive.
 
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Cops need Simulation training like many of us get regularly. Cops also need a national standard of policing and a certification exam. That said, what type of person becomes a police officer? If you want smarter cops I think the pay is going to need top go up not down.

If I was on a jury this police officer would be acquitted of all murder charges. He acted inappropriately but in the heat of the moment the video clearly shows self defense IMHO. A taser could disable you and allow Brooks to then steal your pistol. While I readily admit this is highly unlikely, the officer was not in the best frame of mind after the altercation with Brooks.
 
dannyboy1 said:
Where did I say this was justified ? He didn’t deserve to die. Stupidity should not be punishable by death. The guy who OD’s on heroin or rides his motorcycle without a helmet also doesn’t deserve to die for it. But if you put yourself in bad situation $hit can happen...
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It doesnt seem like this guy put himself into that situation though. Far as I know, he was sleeping his drunkenness off in his car when some jerkwad decided they didnt like that and called the cops.
 
MirrorTodd said:
It doesnt seem like this guy put himself into that situation though. Far as I know, he was sleeping his drunkenness off in his car when some jerkwad decided they didnt like that and called the cops.
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He put himself into that situation when he decided to grab the cops taser.
 
MirrorTodd said:
It doesnt seem like this guy put himself into that situation though. Far as I know, he was sleeping his drunkenness off in his car when some jerkwad decided they didnt like that and called the cops.
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he was blocking a drive through lane at a busy fast food restaurant, not sleeping it off in a park. If you see an unresponsive passed out guy blocking traffic what would you do? The first thing the cops ask on tape is if he needs help or medical attention. They talk to him calmly for 30 minutes and although he lawyer is claiming he “thought his life was in danger, I don’t buy that given he was the one who inexplicably started fighting, grabbing and pointing weapons.
 
doctalaughs said:
he was blocking a drive through lane at a busy fast food restaurant, not sleeping it off in a park. If you see an unresponsive passed out guy blocking traffic what would you do? The first thing the cops ask on tape is if he needs help or medical attention. They talk to him calmly for 30 minutes and although he lawyer is claiming he “thought his life was in danger, I don’t buy that given he was the one who inexplicably started fighting, grabbing and pointing weapons.
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Honest answer, no bull****...I wouldn't call the cops. That's the straight up truth. At most I would call an ambulance if i decided to knock on his window and found he was unresponsive. Hell I probably wouldnt even tell the restaurant staff. Come on man, he wasn't "blocking traffic". If anything whoever called the cops should've told the manager that someone was blocking the drive through lane. Mabe I'm wrong but as far as I know, fast food parking lots are private property belonging to whoever is leasing the property to the fast food restaurant.
 
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dannyboy1 said:
He put himself into that situation when he decided to grab the cops taser.
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Or...cops put him in that situation by arresting him after half an hour of conversation. And wendy's staff put the cops in that situation by calling them first instead of seeing whether the guy would just move his car to a parking spot

doctalaughs said:
he was blocking a drive through lane at a busy fast food restaurant, not sleeping it off in a park. If you see an unresponsive passed out guy blocking traffic what would you do? The first thing the cops ask on tape is if he needs help or medical attention. They talk to him calmly for 30 minutes and although he lawyer is claiming he “thought his life was in danger, I don’t buy that given he was the one who inexplicably started fighting, grabbing and pointing weapons.
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Again, maybe there should be a broader discussion about handcuffing and booking people for non-violent offenses, but not wanting to get arrested and then panic-fleeing is far from inexplicable.
 
vector2 said:
Or...cops put him in that situation by arresting him after half an hour of conversation. And wendy's staff put the cops in that situation by calling them first instead of seeing whether the guy would just move his car to a parking spot



Again, maybe there should be a broader discussion about handcuffing and booking people for non-violent offenses, but not wanting to get arrested and then panic-fleeing is far from inexplicable.
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I'm really confused at what's going on here. Are we really implying that it's ok to say "I don't want to be arrested" to the police when you've done something illegal. We can split hairs all we want but the law is the law. If the law says that if you're in a car driver seat intoxicate whether parked or driving then that is the law. I posted on here that my relative said in her department calling a taxi/Uber is an OPTION but you can also be arrested. The policy could be quite different in Georgia. The fact remains, if the police have made a decision to arrest you, if you say no and put up a fight, you're not resisting arrest. Sure there are reasons to explain why someone would want to avoid arrest, but that doesn't mean you're ALLOWED to avoid arrest. If you want to avoid arrest, don't do anything illegal, no matter how non-violent the crime.
 
chocomorsel said:
Dude/dudette, there has been another video posted where a totally belligerent Non Black male attacked, chased the cop, got in his car and damn near ran the cop over, and he didn't get shot. Clearly, they are capable of not killing people. Especially some who try to ram ram them with vehicles and are clearly high on something or are manic or just have the strength of Thor and a taser doesn't do crap to them. There are other videos out there, one of a female cop getting her ass handed to her, but yet, she doesn't kill the non black perpetrator.

Yet, this dude gets killed after he tries to run away, while he's far away from the cop with a taser, may not even have been close enough to deploy the taser effectively, and you are defending this? Seriously?
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Yes. I'm defending the police shooting this man because the man shot a taser at the police. I'm going to say it again. He took a cops taser and shot it at the cop. Is the cop dumb for letting the man get his taser. Absolutely, and if THAT is the reason he's fire, i.e., stupid enough to let someone get your weapon, then I'm absolutely fine with that. Was the cop wrong for discharging his weapon at someone who fired at taser at him? Nope. He was not wrong. A taser absolute can be lethal.
 
Twiggidy said:
I'm really confused at what's going on here. Are we really implying that it's ok to say "I don't want to be arrested" to the police when you've done something illegal.
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No, I'm reframing the narrative in contrast to everyone who's trying to paint Brooks as being entirely the aggressor / offensive actor in this situation, and thus turn it into a 100% "justified" shooting without any context. There should be alternative options for cops to deal with that situation, but yes I understand that "the law is the law" and all the actions that the officer took may be de jure legal. However, we all know that "legal" isn't necessarily synonymous with just, and we should all recognize that by acknowledging that cops shouldn't be required to give chase and continue escalating an already volatile situation, especially when they already have all the suspect's info and the suspect wasn't directly in the middle of the commission of a destructive or violent crime.

At the risk of doxxing, I have taken a task force detective up to the OR before for a GSW to the abdomen. During a supposed drug bust in a diner parking lot he was shot by one of his fellow officers as they started crossfiring wildly into a car filled with two black suspects who attempted to back up and drive away. There were no officers behind the car, no police car blocking them in, and the two guys were unarmed. The two guys died, but it was a "justified" shooting because they were "resisting arrest with a deadly weapon (car)". This was a year and half ago and was barely a blurb in the local paper. Makes me wonder how many police shootings are of the kind where the officer has similar "justification" about fearing for their life.
 
MirrorTodd said:
Honest answer, no bull****...I wouldn't call the cops. That's the straight up truth. At most I would call an ambulance if i decided to knock on his window and found he was unresponsive. Hell I probably wouldnt even tell the restaurant staff. Come on man, he wasn't "blocking traffic". If anything whoever called the cops should've told the manager that someone was blocking the drive through lane. Mabe I'm wrong but as far as I know, fast food parking lots are private property belonging to whoever is leasing the property to the fast food restaurant.
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Yeah this.
I will only call 911 if someone truly looks like their in distress or if there's a truly life threatening situation.

I did some time at the 911 dispatch center during residency as a requirement. I do know at least there that when people called the first thing they'd say was "do you need fire, police or ambulance"

I can't remember if they then had the ability to triage based on what the caller said.
In this instance if I were to call 911 I would've called and said I need medical because someone looked like they were in distress passed out in their car if that was the concern.

If the 911 call center had the ability to triage better and cities had systems set up in place that when they get called saying a mentally ill person is freaking out or someone on drugs is passed out in the street then medical/social workers show up and not the police.

But nope, in general not gonna call the police to escalate a situation which might lead to trauma, injury or death.
 
If a White Male had done the same things as Mr. Brooks I am pretty certain he would be dead as well. A police officer isn't going to tolerate DUI, resisting arrest, stealing a police taser, running away and then firing that taser at an officer. While we all agree the situation could have been handled differently; my hope is that better training along with simulations will help solve these issues. Police need to be held accountable but so does Mr. Brooks. I do not approve of deadly force in this situation but IMHO, the shooting of Mr. Brooks was not murder or manslaughter.

Without simulation training, national standards and a certification exam these explosive situations will keep happening over and over. Just like we need to keep our "cool" during a code in the O.R. police need to practice de-escalation whenever a non violent crime is being committed. They should have plenty of simulations dealing with non violent crimes involving unarmed people.Mr. Brooks should be paying a fine and doing community service hours; instead, he is no longer alive.
 
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vector2 said:
No, I'm reframing the narrative in contrast to everyone who's trying to paint Brooks as being entirely the aggressor / offensive actor in this situation, and thus turn it into a 100% "justified" shooting without any context. There should be alternative options for cops to deal with that situation, but yes I understand that "the law is the law" and all the actions that the officer took may be de jure legal. However, we all know that "legal" isn't necessarily synonymous with just, and we should all recognize that by acknowledging that cops shouldn't be required to give chase and continue escalating an already volatile situation, especially when they already have all the suspect's info and the suspect wasn't directly in the middle of the commission of a destructive or violent crime.

At the risk of doxxing, I have taken a task force detective up to the OR before for a GSW to the abdomen. During a supposed drug bust in a diner parking lot he was shot by one of his fellow officers as they started crossfiring wildly into a car filled with two black suspects who attempted to back up and drive away. There were no officers behind the car, no police car blocking them in, and the two guys were unarmed. The two guys died, but it was a "justified" shooting because they were "resisting arrest with a deadly weapon (car)". This was a year and half ago and was barely a blurb in the local paper. Makes me wonder how many police shootings are of the kind where the officer has similar "justification" about fearing for their life.
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Yes thank you.
That's why I brought up the case above about the mentally ill person not following commands to move his hands from his waist band and ending up dead. It's then considered justified because the police feared for their lives.
These kind of situations happen at an alarming rate in this country.
And right now we're just talking about deaths.
There of plenty of people who have lived to tell about their experience with the cops but have trauma from the situation.

One of my earliest memories is being a young girl on a road trip with my mom. We got pulled over and then the police seemed to make an assumption that since my mom was Black and driving a nice car there must be drugs in the car. She was forced out the car, searched, the car searched as I stood by in crying horror. Like wtf? This was all because she was going a little over the speed limit. My mom has never done a drug in her life.

Were any of you around in nyc during the stop and frisk times (i mean they still do happen, but on a less regular basis)? Are any of you black and brown?

The police literally behave in a manner traumatizing and killing people "because it's justified for safety."
 
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BLADEMDA said:
If a White Male had done the same things as Mr. Brooks I am pretty certain he would be dead as well. A police officer isn't going to tolerate DUI, resisting arrest, stealing a police taser, running away and then firing that taser at an officer. While we all agree the situation could have been handled differently; my hope is that better training along with simulations will help solve these issues. Police need to be held accountable but so does Mr. Brooks. I do not approve of deadly force in this situation but IMHO, the shooting of Mr. Brooks was not murder or manslaughter.
Click to expand...
There are plenty of instances wher white males have lived to tell the tale while doing much worse. If he were white, there is a much better chance he’d be alive to tell the tale. Let’s be honest here.
 
BLADEMDA said:
If a White Male had done the same things as Mr. Brooks I am pretty certain he would be dead as well. A police officer isn't going to tolerate DUI, resisting arrest, stealing a police taser, running away and then firing that taser at an officer. While we all agree the situation could have been handled differently; my hope is that better training along with simulations will help solve these issues. Police need to be held accountable but so does Mr. Brooks. I do not approve of deadly force in this situation but IMHO, the shooting of Mr. Brooks was not murder or manslaughter.
Click to expand...

Yep the police also kill too many white people as well.
No argument there.
The police are out of control and have always been out of control, especially towards Black people (I hope you've read some history books).
I'm sure you are also smart enough to understand the nuance as to why BLM is a "thing" but lets not act like people are protesting to just stop killing Black people and being in Black communities....we're protesting for ALL of the atrocious police behavior, which does happen to disproportionately affect Black and Native people.
But yes the police certainly need to stop traumatizing and killing white people as well, which I don't think needs to be explicitily said.
 
BLADEMDA said:
If a White Male had done the same things as Mr. Brooks I am pretty certain he would be dead as well.
Click to expand...

See, people keep saying or implying this as if it is true (and maybe it is in the exact situation that Brooks found himself in), but in reality, averaged over the course of thousands of police shootings, the assertion that white suspects (armed or unarmed) are shot at the same rate as black suspects (armed or unarmed) does not appear to be true.
 
AMEHigh said:
Yep the police also kill too many white people as well.
No argument there.
The police are out of control and have always been out of control, especially towards Black people (I hope you've read some history books).
I'm sure you are also smart enough to understand the nuance as to why BLM is a "thing" but lets not act like people are protesting to just stop killing Black people and being in Black communities....we're protesting for ALL of the atrocious police behavior, which does happen to disproportionately affect Black and Native people.
But yes the police certainly need to stop traumatizing and killing white people as well, which I don't think needs to be explicitily said.
Click to expand...
I believe we do have to explicitly say it because there are people who really think that it's only about the blacks and browns people are up in arms about. And therefore they come out with the All Lives Matter and counter protests etc.
People on this site need to also be reminded of that as well because many don't understand it either.
 
Lawpy said:
Read it again. Basically Twitter posts are bland and disappointing. They're on par with Reddit political rants. Political attack ads are more entertaining
Click to expand...

I did, it doesn't parse. Did you mean "Twitter posts are a good way to get people to actually not vote for Biden in the upcoming election." ? Because without my italics phrase added what you wrote doesn't make any sense.

But regardless, you're wrong on multiple fronts. Twitter is pretty disconnected from "the real world" so it's unlikely a tweet someone reads is going to have much effect on their voting choice. Secondly, short, poignant, and/or hilarious twitter jabs are pretty much the polar opposite of long, boring multiple-page reddit rants (or similarly, my other lengthy discursive forums posts 🙂)
 
Interesting. Dexamethasone found to have large all cause mortality benefit. Decreased mortality by 1/3 in intubated patients. RCT. Paper not released yet but based on this group’s reputation and prior trial descriptions, this is legit and significant.
 
Ezekiel2517 said:
Interesting. Dexamethasone found to have large all cause mortality benefit. Decreased mortality by 1/3 in intubated patients. RCT. Paper not released yet but based on this group’s reputation and prior trial descriptions, this is legit and significant.
Click to expand...


It's amazing that the data for steroids in classic ARDS (which according to the pathology reports I've read, COVID lungs have much the same microscopic findings) is pretty equivocal or possibly leans toward benefit, but yet this trial demonstrated such an outstanding result. Would really like to see the actual paper first...
 
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