"There are lots of better careers if you want to make money"

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

PWA 33

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
I'm sure most of you have heard this quote many times and plenty of you here have said it. However, nobody that says it ever seems to have any clue what these other careers are. Common sense tells you this is not true, even when you factor in the debt; just about every single top 10 list of average salaries out there is all physicians.

So, defend yourselves people, what exactly are these career paths.

And don't say law if you have any clue what you're talking about.
 
I'm sure most of you have heard this quote many times and plenty of you here have said it. However, nobody that says it ever seems to have any clue what these other careers are. Common sense tells you this is not true, even when you factor in the debt; just about every single top 10 list of average salaries out there is all physicians.

So, defend yourselves people, what exactly are these career paths.

And don't say law if you have any clue what you're talking about.

Eliot Spitzer's lawyer.
 
Chances are that this will no longer be the case in 10 to 15 years. Salaries in some other fields are growing and doctor salaires are going down.

Here is my list:

- Pilot
- Air traffic control
- Engineering manager
- IT manager
- CRN
- Pharmacist
- Marketing manager
- Medical editor/writer director (or even manager)
- Aerospace engineering
- Arbitrators
- Architecture
- Chief executives
-industrial designers
- Compensation and benefits managers
- Computer hardware engineers
- Economists
- Construction manager
- Electronics engineers
- Healthcare recruiter (if they are good)
- Financial examiners
- Acuturist

Sure doctory salaires are higher the just about any other field. but once you take into account the debt, lost time of wages, you are far behind all of the careers I listed above.

All of the careers I listed above have a salary that can easily reach over $100,000 in the first year or a couple of years of work. Some of them might require a masters degree, but not all do.

Take this for example.

Person A: Graduates college in 4 years:Both graduate college with the same debt. Person A gets a job in their field right out of college. They make a good salary in their first year. They work for a year, two, or three and have the COMPANY pay for their masters degree. Some of the careers listed might require them to get a additional education before they can start the career. but regardless, none of the training of further education even comes close to the cost of medical school education.

Average salary for 7 years: $100,000
Average salary for the next 10 years: $125,000
Average salary for the next 15 years: $150,000 to 200,000

Person B: Graduates college in 4 years. both graduate college with the same debt. Goes to medical school for four years. Goes into debt of around $200,000 to $250,000. Moves onto residency for four years. Debt keeps building. Add on debt from undergraduate school, medical school, and interest accumulation==== debt much larger than your borrowed as a medical school student. Time to pay back school debt while making $150,000 to $200,000 a year.

It will take you a long time to catch up to those people working in the careers that I have listed.

You also have to take into account the other aspects of the profile one of them in the other careers can make while you are in medical school and residency. A p erson with a salary of $100,000 and also does business on the side, invests, gambles, could easily add more yearly income or even double or triple their net worth.
 
Engineering is the example I always use.

Four year degree. Start working and making in the mid to upper five figures. Go to grad school part time while working and get a MS in Engineering. Do the same for an MBA.

Around the time your peers are finishing medical school, you're a licensed professional engineer with graduate engineering and business degrees and made more than they've gone into debt. You start climbing up corporate ladder while your peers start their careers as interns.

Wind up with similar incomes, less debt, shorter work week, and don't worry about catching HIV or Hepatitis at work.

I think a lot of people over hype medicine both in how awesome it is and how bad it is. There's something to be said for the fact that if I wasn't going to med school, I'd be shopping around for the Mercedes I want upon graduation. There's also something to be said for the fact that a physician can live in a town you've never heard of and pull in a hundred grand a year.

Medicine is the slow but steady route. There are ways to get more money and ways to get money faster...
 
Entrepreneur. Owning just 1 or 2 gas stations in a busy area will pay better than the average physician salary.
 
Nothing mentioned thus far is comparing the average worker in the field to your average doctor. I could go through the list wisconsindocprovided one by one and show this but I'd rather not waste my time. The comparisons people have provided thus far are full of "what ifs" and compare best case scenarios for the alternative careers and worst case scenarios for physicians. Also, as all the people graduating from top tierbusiness school are seeing now, finance is a volatile field, i-banking especially.
 
The idea is that a premed who is bright enough to make it into med school would have some attractive alternatives. They won't be the ones working at McDonald's making $7/hour. They won't be the ones attending a Tier 3 law school and getting a $60,000/yr government job upon graduation. Medicine pays decently but for the debt, the amount of time you spend in school, and the amount of hours you have to work, it's not the most attractive choice if you simply want to make money. Keep in mind, salaries have been declining for the past decade or so.
 
Eliot Spitzer's lawyer.

Are you kidding? Elliot Spitzer's prostitute! Doesn't require a college degree, pays $1000/hour and you meet interesting people! 😉

(I'm KIDDING, people. Well, mostly.)
 
Chances are that this will no longer be the case in 10 to 15 years. Salaries in some other fields are growing and doctor salaires are going down.

Here is my list:

- Pilot
- Air traffic control
- Engineering manager
- IT manager
- CRN
- Pharmacist
- Marketing manager
- Medical editor/writer director (or even manager)
- Aerospace engineering
- Arbitrators
- Architecture
- Chief executives
-industrial designers
- Compensation and benefits managers
- Computer hardware engineers
- Economists
- Construction manager
- Electronics engineers
- Healthcare recruiter (if they are good)
- Financial examiners
- Acuturist

Sure doctory salaires are higher the just about any other field. but once you take into account the debt, lost time of wages, you are far behind all of the careers I listed above.

All of the careers I listed above have a salary that can easily reach over $100,000 in the first year or a couple of years of work. Some of them might require a masters degree, but not all do.

Take this for example.

Person A: Graduates college in 4 years:Both graduate college with the same debt. Person A gets a job in their field right out of college. They make a good salary in their first year. They work for a year, two, or three and have the COMPANY pay for their masters degree. Some of the careers listed might require them to get a additional education before they can start the career. but regardless, none of the training of further education even comes close to the cost of medical school education.

Average salary for 7 years: $100,000
Average salary for the next 10 years: $125,000
Average salary for the next 15 years: $150,000 to 200,000

Person B: Graduates college in 4 years. both graduate college with the same debt. Goes to medical school for four years. Goes into debt of around $200,000 to $250,000. Moves onto residency for four years. Debt keeps building. Add on debt from undergraduate school, medical school, and interest accumulation==== debt much larger than your borrowed as a medical school student. Time to pay back school debt while making $150,000 to $200,000 a year.

It will take you a long time to catch up to those people working in the careers that I have listed.

You also have to take into account the other aspects of the profile one of them in the other careers can make while you are in medical school and residency. A p erson with a salary of $100,000 and also does business on the side, invests, gambles, could easily add more yearly income or even double or triple their net worth.
ATC? Apparently you have not seen the starting pay..... :laugh: Why do you think they have a problem recruiting enough people? High stress and low pay tend to do that.
 
Engineering is the example I always use.

Four year degree. Start working and making in the mid to upper five figures. Go to grad school part time while working and get a MS in Engineering. Do the same for an MBA.

Around the time your peers are finishing medical school, you're a licensed professional engineer with graduate engineering and business degrees and made more than they've gone into debt. You start climbing up corporate ladder while your peers start their careers as interns.

Wind up with similar incomes, less debt, shorter work week, and don't worry about catching HIV or Hepatitis at work.

I think a lot of people over hype medicine both in how awesome it is and how bad it is. There's something to be said for the fact that if I wasn't going to med school, I'd be shopping around for the Mercedes I want upon graduation. There's also something to be said for the fact that a physician can live in a town you've never heard of and pull in a hundred grand a year.

Medicine is the slow but steady route. There are ways to get more money and ways to get money faster...

Yeah, that's about right. I'm switching from an engineering job (which I have a master's for), and I figured out once what it was probably costing me to switch careers. Not counting living expenses (which I'd have either way), the difference between what I'll pay in tuition & the significantly smaller salary I'll make as a resident vs. what I'd make over the next 8-10 years in my current job (assuming just basic, run-of-the-mill raises) is around $1 million, and that's not even including benefits (which are currently very good). Will I make that back up in the long run with a higher salary as a doctor? Possibly, but it might take me a decade or two just to break even. On the plus side, I can make a very good argument that I'm not doing it for the money. If you want money, go into finance/business. Not only is the route shorter, but the ceiling is much higher.
 
The idea is that a premed who is bright enough to make it into med school would have some attractive alternatives. They won't be the ones working at McDonald's making $7/hour. They won't be the ones attending a Tier 3 law school and getting a $60,000/yr government job upon graduation. Medicine pays decently but for the debt, the amount of time you spend in school, and the amount of hours you have to work, it's not the most attractive choice if you simply want to make money. Keep in mind, salaries have been declining for the past decade or so.

I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing the facile "analysis" that leads people to believe that there are multiple guaranteed paths to large sums of money that premedical students are in the least bit qualified for. I don't think the connection between good premed student and good businessman is very strong. Being a good premed only means you can work hard and you can master topics that require little creativity. It doesn't mean you have the capability to be some ridiculously good investor or entrepreneur.
 
Chances are that this will no longer be the case in 10 to 15 years. Salaries in some other fields are growing and doctor salaires are going down.

Here is my list:

- Pilot
- Air traffic control
- Engineering manager
- IT manager
- CRN
- Pharmacist
- Marketing manager
- Medical editor/writer director (or even manager)
- Aerospace engineering
- Arbitrators
- Architecture
- Chief executives
-industrial designers
- Compensation and benefits managers
- Computer hardware engineers
- Economists
- Construction manager
- Electronics engineers
- Healthcare recruiter (if they are good)
- Financial examiners
- Acuturist

Sure doctory salaires are higher the just about any other field. but once you take into account the debt, lost time of wages, you are far behind all of the careers I listed above.

All of the careers I listed above have a salary that can easily reach over $100,000 in the first year or a couple of years of work. Some of them might require a masters degree, but not all do.

Take this for example.

Person A: Graduates college in 4 years:Both graduate college with the same debt. Person A gets a job in their field right out of college. They make a good salary in their first year. They work for a year, two, or three and have the COMPANY pay for their masters degree. Some of the careers listed might require them to get a additional education before they can start the career. but regardless, none of the training of further education even comes close to the cost of medical school education.

Average salary for 7 years: $100,000
Average salary for the next 10 years: $125,000
Average salary for the next 15 years: $150,000 to 200,000

Person B: Graduates college in 4 years. both graduate college with the same debt. Goes to medical school for four years. Goes into debt of around $200,000 to $250,000. Moves onto residency for four years. Debt keeps building. Add on debt from undergraduate school, medical school, and interest accumulation==== debt much larger than your borrowed as a medical school student. Time to pay back school debt while making $150,000 to $200,000 a year.

It will take you a long time to catch up to those people working in the careers that I have listed.

You also have to take into account the other aspects of the profile one of them in the other careers can make while you are in medical school and residency. A p erson with a salary of $100,000 and also does business on the side, invests, gambles, could easily add more yearly income or even double or triple their net worth.

where on earth did you get this list? msn.com? air traffic controller...you're joking, right? and what exactly is an "acuturist?"
 
Where's dentistry on this list?
 
Engineering is the example I always use.

Four year degree. Start working and making in the mid to upper five figures. Go to grad school part time while working and get a MS in Engineering. Do the same for an MBA.

Around the time your peers are finishing medical school, you're a licensed professional engineer with graduate engineering and business degrees and made more than they've gone into debt. You start climbing up corporate ladder while your peers start their careers as interns.

Wind up with similar incomes, less debt, shorter work week, and don't worry about catching HIV or Hepatitis at work.

Well there's no guarantee that you're gonna move into management. But it is true that it's very possible. In the end, it's about what you like to do. Sure you can make six figures in engineering. You can also do it in making clay pottery. There's no easy recipe to wealth. The best way is to get there doing something you enjoy.
 
One thing medicine has that many other jobs don't is job security. When you graduate from residency you are will almost certainly have a job making over 100K. At the same time you won't be fired unless you really screw up.

By the same token physicians are not hurt much by a bad economy, with maybe the exception of people who do comestics.
 
Yeah.

You could go be an investment banker or a top-firm lawyer. 🙄

Completely clueless.
 
ATC? Apparently you have not seen the starting pay..... :laugh: Why do you think they have a problem recruiting enough people? High stress and low pay tend to do that.

Welcome back Dropckick Murphy. Once again, you come off as an indiot with no class. No wonder why you were banned.
 
I'm just finishing my M.Sc. in Medical Radiation Physics. Several of my peers graduating landed entry level clinical jobs starting at 90K, and will be making closer to 140K (with no overhead and with much better hours than an MD) within 2 years once they pass the boards. I on the other hand am going into an MD-PhD program (hopefully!), so I won't break even on my course of study until the age of 42 based on average wages, although both fields should see a decline in wages over the next decade or so. Keep in mind I'm Canadian, so my calculations weren't even taking into account the tremendous debt load/ higher cost of living at american schools.

Getting into med school isn't like winning the lottery (At least not in the financial sense, although maybe in the random sense, at least in Denmark.)
.
 
It's awhat you do when you're feeling asuicidal.

Nope! The correct spelling is Actuarial.

Some of you are just upset that other careers can lead to a better lifestyle with better money.

Any person that works in sales (with a base salary) and is good at their work can make more money then most doctors.

I've seen may people who work in medical sales driving much better cars then doctors. Don't be a fool, if you have the money chances are you are going to use it to drive nice cars. Anyone who doesn't think this is the norm is an idito.

 
Yeah.

You could go be an investment banker or a top-firm lawyer. 🙄

Completely clueless.

As you learn surfing SDN these are both incredibly easy jobs to obtain.

I have friends that are "top-firm lawyers" and they make about what an FP does - not pocket change but certainly not radiology/derm/ortho money. They can increase their income only by putting in hours that might make an FP resident cry and getting lucky enough to make partner. And guess what - if you want that top-firm job in NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC etc you probably shouldn't go to State U. School of Law either. You'll have grad school debt just like a physician.

Plus I love this whole idea of "open a business and get rich." Most of us are so financially illiterate that any business we would open (assuming we could get the capital loaned to us) would fold in a matter of months. It takes alot of skill and time to get a business running and generate consistent, positive cash flow.

It's been said so many times but it bears repeating - you are not going to starve in medicine but you'll probably have to settle for a Lexus instead of a Lambo.
 
Nope! The correct spelling is Actuarial.



argh-Picard.jpg
 
I'm disputing the facile "analysis" that leads people to believe that there are multiple guaranteed paths to large sums of money that premedical students are in the least bit qualified for. I don't think the connection between good premed student and good businessman is very strong. Being a good premed only means you can work hard and you can master topics that require little creativity. It doesn't mean you have the capability to be some ridiculously good investor or entrepreneur.

Speaking as someone coming from an unrelated field, I can assure you that being uber bright and being good with people (both skills REQUIRED for success in medicine) gets you most of the way toward the skillset necessary for any other profession. I don't see drastic differences in ability between my med school classmates and the folks who excelled in law -- actually most of my med school peers are better in a lot of aspects. Most of the "skills" people perceive as necessary for being a lawyer or banker are learnable, not inherent, and nobody is a better learner than a med student. Folks are too willing to sell themselves short on SDN by comparing themselves to average folks. You have to look at the person who had as one of his choices attending med school, and compare to him. That is a very small select group, and generally successful.

I think the flaw you and everybody keep hitting is the "guaranteed" language. The first thing you get taught in any finance course is that there is generally a risk reward ratio, and the more unlimited the reward you seek, the greater the risk you often have to be willing to take. Things are valued based on this -- people will be willing to invest in greater risks if the reward is great enough. So too with employment. If you are willing to step away from the guarantee of a particular salary range, and take a career risk, the ceiling is often higher. Which is why folks go into eg investment banking. There is a lot of washout in the field, and plenty of people don't make it rich. But the sky is the limit in what you can earn if you are successful. Not so in things like medicine which has a rather finite salary, based on the number of hours and how much you can get from reimbursements. The second thing you get taught in any finance course is the time value of money. A dollar today is worth a LOT more than a dollar a decade from now. So if you are going into a program that takes a decade before you start earning, and even worse, paying out six digits for the privilege, you often start out in a hole that is impossible to dig back out of. You will be old and gray before you catch up to a lot of your biglaw and I bank and dental peers, if ever. Will you overtake them at the end? Perhaps, but that depends a lot on your field of specialty, something you can't always bank on. (best to assume you will end up doing primary care with an average current salary of $140k because a very substantial percentage of folks who go to med school will end up in this range).

And the final straw, not something you learn in school but something you need to be cognizant of, is that as reimbursements are slashed in medicine, and tuition is going up, you are seeing folks in medicine ending up substantially worse off than the prior generation of physicians. This isn't your father's oldsmobile. And lots of pundits predict salaries to continue to creep downward. At the same time as medicines salaries have been declining other professions have seen about an 8% increase. The various news articles posted on SDN in the past year highlighting FPs who have to take on second jobs and sell things on E-bay should be read with some concern. Plan to be comfortable but not rich in medicine. There are more folks who end up in the "rich" category in other fields. But no, it's not guaranteed. Nor should it be -- it is a question of how much risk you are willing to take for the reward. But if you are going into something for money reasons, you should be far less risk averse.
 
I agree it is probably true that you can achieve a higher salary level quicker in many of the careers listed below, however, think about this for a second (this is my plan). I hope to get into my state medical school (<$20,000 in state tuition per year). If this works out my total debt for tuition will be ~$80,000 plus any interest that accrues. So lets just assume total debt upon residency completion =~ $120,000 (family medicine residency). For four years of in state service as a primary care doctor to an under-served population my state will forgive a maximum of $100,000 in debt. Plus I will be making a physicians salary at ~$150,000 (cost of living is one of the highest in the country due to housing market costs). Lets also point out that I want to stay in my state anyway, and can actually stay in the same town I live in now should I choose. So in theory I will be making my doctors salary immediately after I complete my residency, which would be at or above the salary should I pick another career.
 
I've seen may people who work in medical sales driving much better cars then doctors. Don't be a fool, if you have the money chances are you are going to use it to drive nice cars. Anyone who doesn't think this is the norm is an idito.

lol, this is just getting silly.
 
My friend in our small city makes $120,000 as a mechanical engineer. He started at 65,000 at 22 and is now 30. He's also a total ******* in every other regard. Oh yeah, and that's 45 hour work weeks and no debt (4 year undergrad at a place that costs ~ 1600 a semester). A bit better gig than your standard GP has.


My other friend that is getting into medicine for the right reasons was a healthcare actuary. He was making 80,000 right out of undergrad and his boss with 15 years of experience is making 250,000 base with ~100,000 extra in bonuses and addl compensation.


The ONLY people that think medicine is a great place to make money are $9 an hour undergrads who say things on this forum like "If I can make 90,000 as a physician, I'll be happy". But those people have never worked a real job and have no idea how much money others are actually making.

With that all said, I just got done figuring that my cheap Texas tuition and living + undergrad debt of only 20,000 will result in ~220,000 worth of debt at the end of a 3 year residency.
That will be 1434.24 over 30 years. Oh and I'll 33 when I leave residency, so 1434.24 until I'm 63!
So, at 150,000 that so many pre-meds think would be happy on, I would take home from each pay check (in TEXAS WITH NO STATE INCOME) after paying my debt $7156 a month.

My friend who is the engineer will be taking home $6,982.31!! A whopping $200 dollars less. And that is with no loss of earning potential for a decade. No residency hours,etc.
I've also ignored the fact that the numbers get worse if you go to a different state with income tax, and that my engineer friend can deduct the interest paid on his mortgage and equity loan, while the physician CANNOT deduct the interest on their debt as the base salary is considered too high (150000+)

But of course whoever is reading this will assume they are rare snowflake that will det a derm residency in a highpaying, lowcost of living place where people will shower them with respect and power. You will have autonomy and be one step from a god!
 
Wow. I never really understood this argument. "Should I do medicine, or I-banking?" Jeez. If you are caught in this conundrum, then medicine is probably not for you. Two more different jobs I cannot imagine, and I think it very unlikely that the same personality could really be happy doing either job.

The point is, medicine is something you do because you love it and find it enthralling. Even if you COULD make the most money of any career, you still shouldn't do it just because of this. You would be rich but miserable.

This argument is made by either immature "pre-meds" who don't know why they're doing it, or those who made their decision when they were too young for the wrong reasons and now regret it (ie, they thought medicine would be prestigious and enriching, and didn't worry about if they really loved it).

You make good money in medicine, but it's not the highest paying. That's not the point. It is so totally separate and apart from any other job (besides nurse/PA/other health care worker) that they are totally incomparable.

APPLES AND ORANGES.
 
I agree it is probably true that you can achieve a higher salary level quicker in many of the careers listed below, however, think about this for a second (this is my plan). I hope to get into my state medical school (<$20,000 in state tuition per year). If this works out my total debt for tuition will be ~$80,000 plus any interest that accrues. So lets just assume total debt upon residency completion =~ $120,000 (family medicine residency). For four years of in state service as a primary care doctor to an under-served population my state will forgive a maximum of $100,000 in debt. Plus I will be making a physicians salary at ~$150,000 (cost of living is one of the highest in the country due to housing market costs). Lets also point out that I want to stay in my state anyway, and can actually stay in the same town I live in now should I choose. So in theory I will be making my doctors salary immediately after I complete my residency, which would be at or above the salary should I pick another career.

Your family gonna foot the bill for every other living expense while in med school or are you planning on living on air??

Either way:
1>Almost no one in med school has everything beyond tuition paid for by someone else.
2>There are only so many GP spots, GP debt forgiveness spots, etc.
 
My friend in our small city makes $120,000 as a mechanical engineer. He started at 65,000 at 22 and is now 30. He's also a total ******* in every other regard. Oh yeah, and that's 45 hour work weeks and no debt (4 year undergrad at a place that costs ~ 1600 a semester). A bit better gig than your standard GP has.


My other friend that is getting into medicine for the right reasons was a healthcare actuary. He was making 80,000 right out of undergrad and his boss with 15 years of experience is making 250,000 base with ~100,000 extra in bonuses and addl compensation.


The ONLY people that think medicine is a great place to make money are $9 an hour undergrads who say things on this forum like "If I can make 90,000 as a physician, I'll be happy". But those people have never worked a real job and have no idea how much money others are actually making.

With that all said, I just got done figuring that my cheap Texas tuition and living + undergrad debt of only 20,000 will result in ~220,000 worth of debt at the end of a 3 year residency.
That will be 1434.24 over 30 years. Oh and I'll 33 when I leave residency, so 1434.24 until I'm 63!
So, at 150,000 that so many pre-meds think would be happy on, I would take home from each pay check (in TEXAS WITH NO STATE INCOME) after paying my debt $7156 a month.

My friend who is the engineer will be taking home $6,982.31!! A whopping $200 dollars less. And that is with no loss of earning potential for a decade. No residency hours,etc.
I've also ignored the fact that the numbers get worse if you go to a different state with income tax, and that my engineer friend can deduct the interest paid on his mortgage and equity loan, while the physician CANNOT deduct the interest on their debt as the base salary is considered too high (150000+)

But of course whoever is reading this will assume they are rare snowflake that will det a derm residency in a highpaying, lowcost of living place where people will shower them with respect and power. You will have autonomy and be one step from a god!

I'm glad that you understand the situation. Most pre-meds don't understand how big of a burden their debt from medical school will be. Most think they will be able to pay it off in just a couple of years or up to a decade. That is unlikely unless they have a good budget in place and live off their spouse’s salary.
Some other person made a good posting about what you can expect the actual take home to be. You can find the thread a few pages back. There is about 10 pages worth of reading. Some of you on this thread need to take the time to read it.

Let me name a few other jobs/careers that pay good money:
- Casino manager
- Director of client services
- CFO
- Senior level consultant
- Director of data design
- District team leader
- Chief operating officer
- Accountant director
All of the jobs and careers that I have listed in this response, and my first post in this thread, is only the tip of the ice berg for jobs that can allow a person to earn a 6 figure income.
With just a quick two minute search on the Internet I came up with over 500 open positions that have a starting salary of over $100,000.
 
Speaking as someone coming from an unrelated field, I can assure you that being uber bright and being good with people (both skills REQUIRED for success in medicine) gets you most of the way toward the skillset necessary for any other profession. I don't see drastic differences in ability between my med school classmates and the folks who excelled in law -- actually most of my med school peers are better in a lot of aspects. Most of the "skills" people perceive as necessary for being a lawyer or banker are learnable, not inherent, and nobody is a better learner than a med student. Folks are too willing to sell themselves short on SDN by comparing themselves to average folks. You have to look at the person who had as one of his choices attending med school, and compare to him. That is a very small select group, and generally successful.

I think the flaw you and everybody keep hitting is the "guaranteed" language. The first thing you get taught in any finance course is that there is generally a risk reward ratio, and the more unlimited the reward you seek, the greater the risk you often have to be willing to take. Things are valued based on this -- people will be willing to invest in greater risks if the reward is great enough. So too with employment. If you are willing to step away from the guarantee of a particular salary range, and take a career risk, the ceiling is often higher. Which is why folks go into eg investment banking. There is a lot of washout in the field, and plenty of people don't make it rich. But the sky is the limit in what you can earn if you are successful. Not so in things like medicine which has a rather finite salary, based on the number of hours and how much you can get from reimbursements. The second thing you get taught in any finance course is the time value of money. A dollar today is worth a LOT more than a dollar a decade from now. So if you are going into a program that takes a decade before you start earning, and even worse, paying out six digits for the privilege, you often start out in a hole that is impossible to dig back out of. You will be old and gray before you catch up to a lot of your biglaw and I bank and dental peers, if ever. Will you overtake them at the end? Perhaps, but that depends a lot on your field of specialty, something you can't always bank on. (best to assume you will end up doing primary care with an average current salary of $140k because a very substantial percentage of folks who go to med school will end up in this range).

And the final straw, not something you learn in school but something you need to be cognizant of, is that as reimbursements are slashed in medicine, and tuition is going up, you are seeing folks in medicine ending up substantially worse off than the prior generation of physicians. This isn't your father's oldsmobile. And lots of pundits predict salaries to continue to creep downward. At the same time as medicines salaries have been declining other professions have seen about an 8% increase. The various news articles posted on SDN in the past year highlighting FPs who have to take on second jobs and sell things on E-bay should be read with some concern. Plan to be comfortable but not rich in medicine. There are more folks who end up in the "rich" category in other fields. But no, it's not guaranteed. Nor should it be -- it is a question of how much risk you are willing to take for the reward. But if you are going into something for money reasons, you should be far less risk averse.

This post should be a sticky so pre-meds can read it forever and not be lost in the unknown archives of the Internet.
 
Nope! The correct spelling is Actuarial.

Some of you are just upset that other careers can lead to a better lifestyle with better money.

Any person that works in sales (with a base salary) and is good at their work can make more money then most doctors.

I've seen may people who work in medical sales driving much better cars then doctors. Don't be a fool, if you have the money chances are you are going to use it to drive nice cars. Anyone who doesn't think this is the norm is an idito.




You are a complete *****. Have you ever been to an expensive neighborhood? Follow those people in the nice cars, they don't live in the huge houses. You will see more Accords, Tahoes, Suburbans than
Benzs, BMWs and Porsches. They are wealthy because they don't spend their money on cars. They have nothing to prove. These types of people have multiple homes instead of multiple expensive cars. Little tip in case you ever have a high salary: If you make $500,000 and spend $500,001 you are still POOR. Also, have ever seen a drug rep or medical sales person over the age of 50. This not because they amassed millions. 👎
 
I forget to even look inside my own family. I have an uncle that started out as a claims adjuster. After three years on the job he moved up to mangement level. Two years ago he took a job at the headquarters with a salary of over $100,000.

I have another uncle that works for the FBI. He started out with a salary of around $80,000. Nobody in my family knows how much he earns right now after being in the FBI for 15 years. I bet he makes well over $150,000 a year.

I have a brother that started out at $85,000 with only a TWO YEAR degree. He works as a translateor (Arabic) for the military. He isn't a goverment employee, but works for a company that contracts with the goverment. He is expecting to be making over $100,000 when he moves up the coorporate ladder in a couple of years.

My sisters husband makes $100,000 a year for a job desigining constructiong equipment.

Some pre-meds really need to get a clue. There are a lot of jobs out there that pay good money and offer a heck of a lot better life style.
 
You are a complete *****. Have you ever been to an expensive neighborhood? Follow those people in the nice cars, they don't live in the huge houses. You will see more Accords, Tahoes, Suburbans than
Benzs, BMWs and Porsches. They are wealthy because they don't spend their money on cars. They have nothing to prove. These types of people have multiple homes instead of multiple expensive cars. Little tip in case you ever have a high salary: If you make $500,000 and spend $500,001 you are still POOR. Also, have ever seen a drug rep or medical sales person over the age of 50. This not because they amassed millions. 👎

You have no idea what you are even talking about. Take some time to learn what type of compensation these folks can make.
 
....Are on here... and they should be. But, even though, yeah he's basically a mechanic, and yeah my cousin who is in the profession comes home covered in grease, Aviation maintenence managers and even just your typical jet mechanic who works on the plane that takes you nonstop to Boston makes very decent money. Frankie, my cousin, brings in slightly over 125K a year, my dad, a cpa did his taxes. Accounting managers only make like 115K-120K, which is what my dad does. My cousin is 28 and has no loans... when he was a kid his family lost their house. Ship engineers make good money too.
 
Let me name a few other jobs/careers that pay good money:
- Casino manager - Good luck getting this job 👍
- Director of client services - shoot me please:scared:
- CFO - I suck at math😡 I+III=II👍
- Senior level consultant - Uhhh👎
- Director of data design - See Director of Client services
- District team leader - For what Wal-Mart
- Chief operating officer - Nobody would put me in charge of operations
- Accountant director - 😴😴

I could work in the factories for 20 years and "go in" with 8 coworkers an buy a lotto ticket and win 250 million too.
 
You have no idea what you are even talking about. Take some time to learn what type of compensation these folks can make.



Have you ever worked in sales? You don't inherit clients. It takes years to get a steady stream of clients. Even then, you are competing against different firms selling the same product in different packages. Also, sales is the first job to go when a company loses assets.
 
I forget to even look inside my own family. I have an uncle that started out as a claims adjuster. After three years on the job he moved up to mangement level. Two years ago he took a job at the headquarters with a salary of over $100,000.

I have another uncle that works for the FBI. He started out with a salary of around $80,000. Nobody in my family knows how much he earns right now after being in the FBI for 15 years. I bet he makes well over $150,000 a year.

I have a brother that started out at $85,000 with only a TWO YEAR degree. He works as a translateor (Arabic) for the military. He isn't a goverment employee, but works for a company that contracts with the goverment. He is expecting to be making over $100,000 when he moves up the coorporate ladder in a couple of years.

My sisters husband makes $100,000 a year for a job desigining constructiong equipment.

Some pre-meds really need to get a clue. There are a lot of jobs out there that pay good money and offer a heck of a lot better life style.

Wow, Spectacular, Amazing. My Fiancee's Uncle's is a Orthopod and makes $500,000 a year, and you know what is so cool, his hospital group covers the malpractice. Oh dear, he makes more than your whole family. Sure he has to work 50 hrs a week😱, but I think he manages.

You know what else is cool, his brother owns two restaurants and makes well over $1 mil year and drives a Toyota Prius.
 
My friend in our small city makes $120,000 as a mechanical engineer.
I have several friends in this situation. However I also know several alumni from my fraternity, and when they miss the move into management they tend to get fired around age 45 and have trouble finding work. Then they take a big pay cut. Engineers are most valuable when their knowledge is reasonbly fresh, mid career they either need to start getting doctorates, move into management, or they start having trouble staying in work.

My opinion is that medicine is by no means bad pay, but the key financial attraction to the profession is security. Lots of people get fired from &#180;top&#180;law firms, investment banking jobs, consulting jobs, and engineering jobs. The bottom 5% if these professions are unemployed, and another big chunk are making crappy money at crappy jobs (talk to someone who specialized in tax law, or an engineer stuck doing autocad). These are careers where you need to reprove your worth every friggin day for the rest of your career or you get the big ugly ax. At least right now, as long as you finish your residency and don&#180;t get convicted of a felony, you&#180;ll be employed at a six figure salary for the rest of your life.

Nobody in my family knows how much he earns right now after being in the FBI for 15 years. I bet he makes well over $150,000 a year

If you can&#180;t figure out how much someone in the government makes you&#180;ve obviously never worked with or near the government. Paygrade plus years experience plus education bonuses and if he makes anywhere near 150K a year he has nearly maxed out the pay charts for the FBI.
 
I have several friends in this situation. However I also know several alumni from my fraternity, and when they miss the move into management they tend to get fired around age 45 and have trouble finding work. Then they take a big pay cut. Engineers are most valuable when their knowledge is reasonbly fresh, mid career they either need to start getting doctorates, move into management, or they start having trouble staying in work.

My opinion is that medicine is by no means bad pay, but the key financial attraction to the profession is security. Lots of people get fired from ´top´law firms, investment banking jobs, consulting jobs, and engineering jobs. The bottom 5% if these professions are unemployed, and another big chunk are making crappy money at crappy jobs (talk to someone who specialized in tax law, or an engineer stuck doing autocad). These are careers where you need to reprove your worth every friggin day for the rest of your career or you get the big ugly ax. At least right now, as long as you finish your residency and don´t get convicted of a felony, you´ll be employed at a six figure salary for the rest of your life.



If you can´t figure out how much someone in the government makes you´ve obviously never worked with or near the government. Paygrade plus years experience plus education bonuses and if he makes anywhere near 150K a year he has nearly maxed out the pay charts for the FBI.

I know the pay scale for goverment jobs. He took a new position when he was already working for the FBI. Nobody knows his job title (and he can't give it out either). That is why we don't know his exact yearl salary.
 
Your family gonna foot the bill for every other living expense while in med school or are you planning on living on air??

Either way:
1>Almost no one in med school has everything beyond tuition paid for by someone else.
2>There are only so many GP spots, GP debt forgiveness spots, etc.

I have been out of school for 2 years. I am currently 24, and by the time I enter medical school (fingers crossed) I will almost be 25, and three years out. I have saved money while working by living at home, so I have a decent amount saved up that should cover my housing expense. I will have almost all of my car paid off. Any other expenses (i.e. books and food) would probably be covered by my grandmother, but hopefully not necessary.
Yeh, you are right about the GP spots, so I have to be diligent and committed in medical school. I'm from CT, and there is a tremendous shortage of under-served areas physicians (i.e. Hartford, Bridgeport, New Haven, Waterbury, Torrington, basically the whole Eastern part of the state). For being one of the highest per capita income state, there are a lot of under-served areas (basically helps to have Greenwich and New Canaan two of probably the most affluent towns in the country to balance out Bridgeport and Hartford, etc.)
 
My opinion is that medicine is by no means bad pay, but the key financial attraction to the profession is security.

Sure, but going into something for money and going in for security are diametrically opposed concepts. Someone whose goal is to "make money" as the OP suggests is simply not going to be well served in a job security field. Making money is about assuming more risk for more potential reward. Fields like banking, sales, entrepreneurship, all offer this. Medicine doesn't. You get on and ride the income down a few percent a year as reimbursements decline. You won't get fired, but you won't earn as much as the prior generation did either. Whereas in other, more risky ventures, you have the potential to make huge bonuses during good years. I think that's the point of folks who say don't do medicine for the money. You will study and train for a decade, assume a six digit debt, and earn a comfortable, but not that impressive salary (less so if you consider the time value of money that it took to get to that point). Whereas if you do well in another field that start sooner, you can be leapyears ahead long before any physician starts in private practice.
 
I'm sure most of you have heard this quote many times and plenty of you here have said it. However, nobody that says it ever seems to have any clue what these other careers are. Common sense tells you this is not true, even when you factor in the debt; just about every single top 10 list of average salaries out there is all physicians.

So, defend yourselves people, what exactly are these career paths.

And don't say law if you have any clue what you're talking about.

You also have to factor in more than just raw numbers. Intangibles like freetime are pretty darn valuable. Usability engineering can get you pretty high up there. I was offered 80k starting with a bachelors. That would easily be up to 110-120 within 4-5 years along with stock benefits and a bunch of other stuff...OH, and 40-45 hour weeks with no call. When you look at the amount of work a doctor does for that higher income, it isn't as high as one would expect. Super, you're making 300k a year pre taxes, but in many fields that is working realllllllly hard to get there.

My brother was a mechanic, as in an auto mechanic. He pulled in 200k a year just from that. Not to mention he was hired by some rich guy to rebuild and custom machine parts for his rare cars and all the other odd side jobs he did including rental properties. Never graduated high school. He made 50 dollars a bill hour at the steady job. (Not per hour...some of his jobs only took 20 minutes and were billable for 2 or 3 hours) The millionaire guy paid him 100 dollars an hour plus bonuses. Keep in mind, this is to do stuff he does for fun. Then his rental properties brought in his fun cash for other hobbies. He fixes everything himself and generally keeps his expenses down, but he is doing quite well.
 
Real estate can bring a huge reward. But it can also bring a huge risk.

Your local plumber can charge over a hundreed dollars an hour for work. A plumber who runs their own business can bring in over a 6 figure salary. Heck, a person that does electrical work can do the same.

To the OP, have we given you enough examples yet? We can keep giving you more examples if you want.
 
Top