"There are lots of better careers if you want to make money"

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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AmoryBlaine said:
As you learn surfing SDN these are both incredibly easy jobs to obtain.

I have friends that are "top-firm lawyers" and they make about what an FP does - not pocket change but certainly not radiology/derm/ortho money. They can increase their income only by putting in hours that might make an FP resident cry and getting lucky enough to make partner. And guess what - if you want that top-firm job in NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC etc you probably shouldn't go to State U. School of Law either. You'll have grad school debt just like a physician.

Plus I love this whole idea of "open a business and get rich." Most of us are so financially illiterate that any business we would open (assuming we could get the capital loaned to us) would fold in a matter of months. It takes alot of skill and time to get a business running and generate consistent, positive cash flow.

It's been said so many times but it bears repeating - you are not going to starve in medicine but you'll probably have to settle for a Lexus instead of a Lambo.
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What experience do you have in this regard? My dad dropped out of college sophomore year, and he is by no means financially literate. I know more about investment than he does. Yet he's managed to get loans approved for, and purchase, 3 gas stations.

If you want to start your own business, then yea it's going to be rough. If you're really that financially illiterate don't think about the higher physician salaries, those are only from private practice.

Franchises are a different story. Chevron and Shell have done all the leg work, you just provide some initial capital.

I do agree with you about the lawyers thing. VERY VERY few salaried employees make what physicians make.
 
metalgearHMN said:
Franchises are a different story. Chevron and Shell have done all the leg work, you just provide some initial capital.

.
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No, to get a good Franchise (McDonalds, Olive Garden, Chevron etc) you have to pass a series of so called "tests." You must have liquid assets of 1.( mil before a place like Panera Bread will even consider your bid. For restaurants you have to have prior experience either managing or owning a restaurant or other Franchise business. A Franchise is a household name because they don't just let schmucks of the street run their name into the ground. Not to mention the 5-8% that kickbacks that you are required to give back to the Franchisor. Most people that make money in Franchises own multiple restaurants or gas stations. And this takes years, not days after you graduate high school to reach this point. Also, you can't just open up a Franchise book and pick whatever you want and build it wherever you want, the Franchisor will be telling you where to build. Again, if you live beyond your means it does not matter how much you make you will be struggling like the rest of America.
 
mfrizzo3 said:
No, to get a good Franchise (McDonalds, Olive Garden, Chevron etc) you have to pass a series of so called "tests." You must have liquid assets of 1.( mil before a place like Panera Bread will even consider your bid. For restaurants you have to have prior experience either managing or owning a restaurant or other business. A Franchise is a household name because they don't just let schmucks of the street run their name into the ground. Not to mention the 5-8% that kickbacks that you are required to give back to the Franchisor. Most people that make money in Franchises own multiple restaurants or gas stations. And this takes years, not days after you graduate high school to reach this point. Also, you can't just open up a Franchise book and pick whatever you want and build it wherever you want, the Franchisor will be telling you where to build. Again, if you live beyond your means it does not matter how much you make you will be struggling like the rest of America.
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A business owner shouldn't be apart of this discussion. Owning and running a business is a whole different ball game.
 
The people you see giving you the news, sports, and weather can make over $100,000 after a few years in the business. They have an upward salary. The longer you are in the business, the more you make. You move from small markets to bigger markets.

Should we start talking about salaries in sports (not athletes)? I know many jobs in sports that pay good money...these jobs are hard to get though.

Maybe we can start talking about securities & commodities sales agents.

I think the people who have the best jobs in the world (besides a punter in the NFL) are announcers. If you have a good radio show, your show can sell for millions. There was a local radio station bought for 8 million dollars by a former NFL player.
 
wisconsindoctor said:
The people you see giving you the news, sports, and weather can make over $100,000 after a few years in the business. They have an upward salary. The longer you are in the business, the more you make. You move from small markets to bigger markets.

Should we start talking about salaries in sports (not athletes)? I know many jobs in sports that pay good money...these jobs are hard to get though.

Maybe we can start talking about securities & commodities sales agents.

I think the people who have the best jobs in the world (besides a punter in the NFL) are announcers. If you have a good radio show, your show can sell for millions. There was a local radio station bought for 8 million dollars by a former NFL player.
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You must still be in high school.
 
wisconsindoctor said:
The people you see giving you the news, sports, and weather can make over $100,000 after a few years in the business. They have an upward salary. The longer you are in the business, the more you make. You move from small markets to bigger markets.

Should we start talking about salaries in sports (not athletes)? I know many jobs in sports that pay good money...these jobs are hard to get though.

Maybe we can start talking about securities & commodities sales agents.

I think the people who have the best jobs in the world (besides a punter in the NFL) are announcers. If you have a good radio show, your show can sell for millions. There was a local radio station bought for 8 million dollars by a former NFL player.
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I think everyone on this thread was staying away from entertainment and sports because those are fields where you need certain kinds of talents that aren't learnable. I could practice forever and never pitch like a major leaguer or sing like a crooner or be a great broadcaster. But you could learn to be a good lawyer, dentist, accountant, banker, businessman, salesman, plumber. The point is there are many careers out there, and most of them afford opportunities to earn good money faster than being a physician, with less up front costs. If your goal is to maximize wealth there are plenty of avenues to take, some of which are mentioned in this thread, probably countless others not mentioned. Spending a decade in a library and ward while paying out $200k is simply not the wise man's path to wealth. Especially when salaries are lower now and tuition is higher than in prior generations. What sounds like a lot in undergrad simply won't when you get there. Only do this path if money is not the goal, because it won't be as much as you think, and you will see peers who took other paths doing much better.
 
mfrizzo3 said:
You must still be in high school.
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You are an idiot. They can start out at around 40k dollars a year and move up in salary every year. After about 8-10 years in the business, they can be earning over $100,000.

I've given everyone countless examples of jobs and careers that pay good money.

You seem upset because other people can have it better then you.
 
Law2Doc said:
I think everyone on this thread was staying away from entertainment and sports because those are fields where you need certain kinds of talents that aren't learnable. I could practice forever and never pitch like a major leaguer or sing like a crooner or be a great broadcaster. But you could learn to be a good lawyer, dentist, accountant, banker, businessman, salesman, plumber. The point is there are many careers out there, and most of them afford opportunities to earn good money faster than being a physician, with less up front costs. If your goal is to maximize wealth there are plenty of avenues to take, some of which are mentioned in this thread, probably countless others not mentioned. Spending a decade in a library and ward while paying out $200k is simply not the wise man's path to wealth. Especially when salaries are lower now and tuition is higher than in prior generations. What sounds like a lot in undergrad simply won't when you get there. Only do this path if money is not the goal, because it won't be as much as you think, and you will see peers who took other paths doing much better.
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For sports, I'm talking about office type jobs. There are jobs in sports that pay good money that require you to set it an office all day.
 
What is your purpose in life? You'll be financially set as a physician and making a difference in other people's lives. People will respect what you do. Going into a career to generate a cash flow may be satisfying to some people but it's not to me. Handling people's finances or maximizing profits sound personally satisfying to you?
 
dc5484 said:
where on earth did you get this list? msn.com? air traffic controller...you're joking, right? and what exactly is an "acuturist?"
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ATC is a solid profession. My uncle is a controller at O'Hare and makes about $150,000 when you include his base salary/overtime/holiday pay etc. Plus, he gets to retire at age 52 (or something like that) and rarely works above 50 hours a week.

I'm guessing he meant an actuary - another solid career where you're pretty much guaranteed to make 100k by the time you hit 30 years old. Plus, most employers only requires a BS/BA.
 
I have been a Paramedic/ Firefighter for 2 years. I made $60000 last year working two days a week. The leutenants with 10 years on the job are arround $120000 with a **** load of vacation and excellent benefits. Haa, I forgot. You retire at 45 with 80% of your salary pension for the rest of your life. All of this with about two years of education.

THAT IS A GOOD JOB...

I am still going for medicine because I love it.
Money wise...... effort wise...time with your family.....

well good luck.
 
chaicos said:
I have been a Paramedic/ Firefighter for 2 years. I made $60000 last year working two days a week. The leutenants with 10 years on the job are arround $120000 with a **** load of vacation and excellent benefits. Haa, I forgot. You retire at 45 with 80% of your salary pension for the rest of your life. All of this with about two years of education.

THAT IS A GOOD JOB...

I am still going for medicine because I love it.
Money wise...... effort wise...time with your family.....

well good luck.
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http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Emergency_Medical_Technician_(EMT)_/_Paramedic/Salary

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Fire_Fighter/Salary

According to these links, median paramedic starting salary is $29,871 and $49,495 after 20 or more years. For firefighters, it's $38,667 and $63,927 respectively.

And according to salary.com, 2.9% of EMTs get pensions (couldn't find firefighters). So your numbers sound a little weird. They certainly don't reflect the norm for that profession.
 
AmoryBlaine said:
I have friends that are "top-firm lawyers" and they make about what an FP does - not pocket change but certainly not radiology/derm/ortho money.
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You miss the point of the time value of money. Earning this much but a half a decade or more earlier makes it more money (in today's dollars) than you'd get in many road specialties. $1 now is worth a LOT more than $1 a decade from now. That's the whole point of annuities. It's why the lotteries will offer you eg $1,000,000 over 20 years or eg $500k lump sum today -- it's the SAME amount of money (assuming an expected interest rate). So eg if you can start in a biglaw job right out of law school at $160k, and earn that give or take modest raises each year, and stay at that job, you will be far far ahead of someone who is coming out of residency 5 years later even if that person starts at a higher salary. AND you will have a lot lower student loan burden to boot. Your friends are getting the last laugh here.
 
BigJuicyWart said:
ATC is a solid profession. My uncle is a controller at O'Hare and makes about $150,000 when you include his base salary/overtime/holiday pay etc. Plus, he gets to retire at age 52 (or something like that) and rarely works above 50 hours a week.

I'm guessing he meant an actuary - another solid career where you're pretty much guaranteed to make 100k by the time you hit 30 years old. Plus, most employers only requires a BS/BA.
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The average salary for an actuarist is around $130,000. If a person wants a career change to the field of actuary, they need to pass the first exam. They can then gain employment as an actuarist and be paid while they pass the next exam. You are basically getting paid to be trained.
 
lacesoutdan said:
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Emergency_Medical_Technician_(EMT)_/_Paramedic/Salary

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Fire_Fighter/Salary

According to these links, median paramedic starting salary is $29,871 and $49,495 after 20 or more years. For firefighters, it's $38,667 and $63,927 respectively.

And according to salary.com, 2.9% of EMTs get pensions (couldn't find firefighters). So your numbers sound a little weird. They certainly don't reflect the norm for that profession.
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He might be working in a ghetto area of the country. A paramedic in some rural town won't make as much as one from New York. I would hate to be a paramedic in a large city.
 
coldweatherblue said:
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Actuary/Salary

Five seconds of google searching produces actual evidence that contradicts your claim. According to this survey (while keeping in mind that salary surveys generally run on the high side) the avg actuary salary in NYC is about $85k a year.
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Why on earth are you using payscale to see what the salary is for a profession? That is a major mistake. Those type of websites DON'T show you the true salary for a profession. I researched this career a couple of years ago and I found, from talking to the professionals in the field, that the average salary is what I posted.
 
wisconsindoctor said:
Why on earth are you using payscale to see what the salary is for a profession? That is a major mistake. Those type of websites DON'T show you the true salary for a profession. I researched this career a couple of years ago and I found, from talking to the professionals in the field, that the average salary is what I posted.
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In 2006, one half of all actuaries earned between $54,770 and $107,650. The average starting salary for graduates with a degree in actuarial science was $52,741 in 2005.

This is according to the government.
 
wisconsindoctor said:
Why on earth are you using payscale to see what the salary is for a profession? That is a major mistake. Those type of websites DON'T show you the true salary for a profession. I researched this career a couple of years ago and I found, from talking to the professionals in the field, that the average salary is what I posted.
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Why on earth do you expect me to believe the anecdotal evidence you provide (which of course supports your prior statement regarding actuary salaries) over evidence from a third-party source?

Maybe I did research a few months ago before applying to med school and found, from talking to professionals in the field that the average salary is what I posted. Does that anecdotal evidence cancel yours or would you be more likely to believe a more reputable source?
 
mfrizzo3 said:
You are a complete *****. Have you ever been to an expensive neighborhood? Follow those people in the nice cars, they don't live in the huge houses. You will see more Accords, Tahoes, Suburbans than
Benzs, BMWs and Porsches. They are wealthy because they don't spend their money on cars. They have nothing to prove. These types of people have multiple homes instead of multiple expensive cars.
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Somehow expensive homes means you're wealthy but expensive cars do not? I don't think you thought this all the way through. I know plenty of people with absolutely massive homes (think 25,000 square feet) and amazing cars. I know one guy who hired Jimmy Buffett as the entertainment for one of his parties. Of course you can have nice cars and a nice house. It also depends on your priorities. If you have a big house, you have to buy all that furniture and clean all of that crap. I'd rather have a 3000 square foot house and a Porsche than a 4500 square foot house and an Accord. Most rich people drive a Benz or a BMW. A Tahoe can easily run you $45,000 anyways, which could definitely get you a 5-series or an E-class.
 
lacesoutdan said:
According to these links, median paramedic starting salary is $29,871 and $49,495 after 20 or more years. For firefighters, it's $38,667 and $63,927 respectively.

And according to salary.com, 2.9% of EMTs get pensions (couldn't find firefighters). So your numbers sound a little weird. They certainly don't reflect the norm for that profession.
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Big city firefighters have amazing benefits and pensions, and they get paid fairly well too. The average paramedics and EMTs make peanuts, but those who are established in a fire department are in much better shape. You can easily pull $75K as a firefighter, and if you include all the benefits, it's more like $100K/year.


That said, the highest paid employee in our county was our medical examiner, who was a doctor. 😉 He was making $220K/year, and the chief of police was almost $80K behind that.
 
TheProwler said:
Somehow expensive homes means you're wealthy but expensive cars do not? I don't think you thought this all the way through. I know plenty of people with absolutely massive homes (think 25,000 square feet) and amazing cars. I know one guy who hired Jimmy Buffett as the entertainment for one of his parties. Of course you can have nice cars and a nice house. It also depends on your priorities. If you have a big house, you have to buy all that furniture and clean all of that crap. I'd rather have a 3000 square foot house and a Porsche than a 4500 square foot house and an Accord. Most rich people drive a Benz or a BMW. A Tahoe can easily run you $45,000 anyways, which could definitely get you a 5-series or an E-class.
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Your right. I meant to make the point that just because you have an expensive car does not mean you are wealthy. Qualifying for a 80K auto loan is not the same a being able to afford a >1.0 mil house. I know plenty of people with Benz's and BMW's that are not rich. And of course there are FILTHY rich people that have their cake and eat it too, but they would probably have a maid or two.
 
For folks who are really worried about this salary thing, I'd strongly recommend sitting down and doing a spreadsheet. Going $200K in the whole with four years of no pay and four years of low pay stings. But if you get a job out of it that pays $50K more than the alternative, you recoup that within 11-14 years.

Seriously. Do a spreadsheet before talking about how plumbers make more than you. Basic math clears a lot of this up.

Medicine is one of the highest paying stable incomes you will find in this country. I don't know many examples of other degree that pretty much guarantees you $150K by the time you're done with training.

For all of the talk about business, keep in mind a degree from a ho-hum MBA program will not guarantee you $150K out of the gate or even $150K within 10 years.

Medicine is a bad job for folks who want to roll the dice and maybe make it rich. But if you're looking for one of the highest paying stable incomes, it's hard to beat. I can't think of many that are better.
 
Two other points:

Incomes in medicine are declining and may continue to do so. If doctor salaries drop by half, this goes out the window. Will they? No. But is there a guarantee they won't drop dramatically? No.

Doctors work pretty hard for their money. Firefighters will never make the salary that doctors do and docs will only make less for a short time until they recoup their loans. but firefighters also work fairly few hours. Most careers in medicine you will work a lot of hours. No getting around it if you want the nice wage.
 
notdeadyet said:
I don't know many examples of other degree that pretty much guarantees you $150K by the time you're done with training.
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Medicine isn't quite such a job, though. The AVERAGE of a number of primary care fields is in the $140k range. That means HALF of those folks earn even less than that. There are physicians out there that are flirting with the six digit line. And there are folks out there who are working longer and longer hours each year just to make the same salary they earned last year when reimbursements were higher. Not everybody gets to be in a competitive specialty or be above average, so I'm not sure you can bank on that. Not to mention the fact that salaries are in flux and may not be as good if certain health care acts come to fruition. So you probably want to keep the unbridled optimism in check until you actually start depositing those paychecks. 🙂
 
notdeadyet said:
For all of the talk about business, keep in mind a degree from a ho-hum MBA program will not guarantee you $150K out of the gate or even $150K within 10 years.
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And just to clarify, an MBA is not a professional degree, like medicine, dental, or law. It does not open doors to a career in the same way. In general, you go into business and then later get the MBA, on the company's dime. You don't go to MBA to get into business. There seems to be some confusion on SDN about this because the focus here is to get a degree and then get a job. The MBA doesn't fit this mold (it is a skill enhancer, not a skill creator degree) and thus probably should not be included in a discussion of going into business/banking.
 
Law2Doc said:
Medicine isn't quite such a job, though. The AVERAGE of a number of primary care fields is in the $140k range. That means HALF of those folks earn even less than that.
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The sort of folks going into medicine in search of a career to make a lot of money will not be going into a $140K primary care job. If you have a passion for pediatrics, hitting $150K is going to be a challenge, but if you're one of these folks going after the bucks and choose a specialty accordingly, there are a many non-cutthroat specialties available that pay much better tha primary care.
 
Law2Doc said:
And just to clarify, an MBA is not a professional degree, like medicine, dental, or law. It does not open doors to a career in the same way. In general, you go into business and then later get the MBA, on the company's dime.
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This is the way it's done at the good programs by the smart applicants. But you also have a whole lot of folks going right into mediocre MBA programs immediately after their undergrad in hopes of nailing a Big Five consulting gig.

And unfortunately, the most money hungry folks I've come across in business tended to be the one that tried to rush the process and had the MBA with no practical backing.

The BA to MBA route is not as uncommon as you might think...
 
notdeadyet said:
The sort of folks going into medicine in search of a career to make a lot of money will not be going into a $140K primary care job.
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You don't always get to pick. Your board scores, evals, LORs, interview skills, may pick for you. Nobody can go to med school expecting to get something cushy. The truth of the matter is most residency slots are in primary care.
 
notdeadyet said:
This is the way it's done at the good programs by the smart applicants. But you also have a whole lot of folks going right into mediocre MBA programs immediately after their undergrad in hopes of nailing a Big Five consulting gig.

And unfortunately, the most money hungry folks I've come across in business tended to be the one that tried to rush the process and had the MBA with no practical backing.

The BA to MBA route is not as uncommon as you might think...
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It's not that I think it's uncommon, it's just not the way the system is set up. And I think this is what causes so much confusion on SDN, this lack of understanding of what an MBA is and what it can and can't do for you. People shouldn't be weighing it as an option along with law, dentistry, medicine, vet. It's NOT a professional degree. This is where folks go wrong, and why folks get confused when they see folks coming out of a lower tier, direct out of college, business school and not landing a high powered job. They really should have gone into business school only after already having a high powered job. This is a big reason the better business schools REQUIRE at least two years of relevant industry work. This is why the majority of top business schools get the bulk of tuition from employers, not students. The degree is meant to be an add on for folks who already have business experience and skills, not an entryway into any particular profession. You go their to get a promotion, not a job. So it's not an option you should be weighing against professional degrees. The actual business job is something you should be weighing against professional degrees. Just wanted to clarify. But sure, there are folks who do things bass-ackwards, and try to do business school first, effectively wasting a year without enhancing their marketability very much. And there are bottom feeder schools happy to part a fool from their money.
 
Law2Doc said:
There are physicians out there that are flirting with the six digit line. And there are folks out there who are working longer and longer hours each year just to make the same salary they earned last year when reimbursements were higher. Not everybody gets to be in a competitive specialty or be above average, so I'm not sure you can bank on that.
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Just as you can't bank on a 140k position as an attorney or a 600k job as an investment banker. And you can't bank on your job as an engineer to still be there at the end of the year either. I'm not sure how the economy is where you live, but there's a lot of engineers looking for work here in Michigan. I bet they're wishing they had the job security of a physician right about now.

It seems to me people in pre-allo try to downplay how much physicians make; I'm not sure why that is (perhaps an attempt to keep pre-meds from entering medicine just for the money?). I don't know about you, but I haven't talked to too many poor physicians (residents are a different story). My uncle, a 5th year practicing anesthesiologist, just bought a second house on Lake Michigan. He seems to be doing alright for himself. No, you likely won't be "rich" as a doctor, but you'll do alright.

best to assume you will end up doing primary care with an average current salary of $140k because a very substantial percentage of folks who go to med school will end up in this range
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If you're going to assume you can just haphazardly obtain high-paying positions in corporate America, you might as well assume you can become Chief of Medicine at MGH. I mean really, what's stopping you?
 
mfrizzo3 said:
Auto Mechanics, Plumbers, and Electricians oh my.
Why stop there. What about Janitors, Painters, Cashiers.
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I'm serious about my brother the mechanic. He is the exception. I'm not going to deny that. He is an actual genius and just didn't like school. I'm not just using genius in the sense that he is intelligent, he is in the 150+ range. He is one of the best at what he does. In about 6th grade he got really into cars and began building engines, by his junior year of high school he was a mechanic at a major south florida car dealer. When he graduated he was shop foreman, which didn't go over well with the middle aged guys. Everything he does he tries to be the best at. I'm not just saying it because he is my brother, I have never seen someone so efficient and skilled at fixing anything mechanical.

There is money in auto mechanics. You just have to be good at what you do. Now he works for about 5 hours a day and goes sailing/hangs with his kid for the rest.
 
Law2Doc said:
You don't always get to pick. Your board scores, evals, LORs, interview skills, may pick for you. Nobody can go to med school expecting to get something cushy. The truth of the matter is most residency slots are in primary care.
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Yes, but following this logic, if you're assuming a body is going into a low paying primary care position, for the sake of comparison, you should also consider the other option being a suit cog making $50K with a ceiling of $80K after 10 years. In which case, the doctor overtaking the business guy plays probably near 11 to 13.

And frankly, the odds of you landing a not-too-competitive specialty paying a good bit more is a lot more likely than someone walking into one of these coveted investment banking gigs folks tlak about.

There's lowball medicine and lowball business. There's highball medicine and highball business. If you compare apples to apples, medicine still comes out smelling pretty sweet.
 
Law2Doc said:
It's not that I think it's uncommon, it's just not the way the system is set up.
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We're in agreement on this issue. This is why I think that folks have a very unrealistic view of businiess salaries. Lots of folks look at a physician's entry salary and compare it to the job offer averages that MBA programs brag about (and it's a big metric for them) when you really are comparing an entry level position in law with a mid-career position in business.

Disclosure: I think 80% of MBA degrees are worthless. There have been many studies that show that unless you go to a top program, they never pay for themselves.
 
A problem with the saying that there are plenty of other careers is that it takes a certain type of person to be successful at each individual career. I know for certain that I would suck at being any type of lawyer because I'm not that great at arguments and I don't like lying.
 
fisko82 said:
I don't know about you, but I haven't talked to too many poor physicians (residents are a different story).
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In my prior career, I've worked on financial restructurings and bankruptcies of physicians, who were financially ruined. These folks were circling the drain financially for quite a while before they pulled the plug. Nothing is guaranteed.
 
fisko82 said:
If you're going to assume you can just haphazardly obtain high-paying positions in corporate America, you might as well assume you can become Chief of Medicine at MGH. I mean really, what's stopping you?
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You and Notdead miss the point I'm making on this. MOST of the physician jobs out there are primary care. You cannot assume that won't be you. But by contrast, most of the folks in the lower end jobs in corporate america didn't have the credentials to get into med school. So you also cannot assume that would be you.
 
You want to be rich? Start a biotech company. Bio-Rad sells milk for couple hundred dollars. Invitrogen sells a piece of molded plastic for 700 dollars.
 
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Being a corporate guy working the small ****... maybe that's what you see as the "corporate option." However, the big career alternatives that people talk about are: investment banking and consulting. We're not talking about programming or working in the legal dept. We're talking about working Mergers and Acquisitions, Fixed Income, Sales & Tradiing, etc. If you have the patience, endurance, and dedication to stick out 9 years working your nuts off for nothing as a student/resident, then you might have what it takes to stick out that time as a banker.

Even in this climate, first year associates at a bulge bracket bank can pull down $350k/year. Starting from the bottom with a Bachelor's degree, you can make it to associate in 3 years... Make it 9 or 10 years in proprietary trading and you'll be retiring in your late 30s. Not gonna lie, though. Not many people have endurance like that. I wonder where you can find people willing to work long hours for such a long period of time. Some people might even be willing to work that many hours for almost no pay *cough* everyone on this forum *cough*.

We can talk about the difficulty of landing a bulgebracket job... maybe the equivalent of landing a top med school? However, you can still land a bigtime job in private equity after gutting it out for 2-years in the smaller bank/hedge fund. It's like landing the big residency after med school... except you can apply for that residency at any point in your career.

Law2Doc is absolutely right: "Only do this path if money is not the goal, because it won't be as much as you think, and you will see peers who took other paths doing much better." Money can't keep you here. It just can't. We're not saying that the money is bad... just that medicine is an inefficient means of generating cash. This has nothing to do with "what's rewarding"... that's not even the point of the thread.
 
For all of the talk about business, keep in mind a degree from a ho-hum MBA program will not guarantee you $150K out of the gate or even $150K within 10 years.
Click to expand...

This is what, in general, bothers me about the reoccuring ´doctors make bad salaries´threads on SDN. It´s the implicit assumption, made by almost every premed, that if they went into business/law/investment banking/plumbing/whatever, not only would they find steady work, they would be the CEO/top firm lawyer/super plumber that actually gets the 500K/year job. It´s yet another distillation of the ego problem that makes premeds so insuferable.

Even in this climate, first year associates at a bulge bracket bank can pull down $350k/year. Starting from the bottom with a Bachelor's degree, you can make it to associate in 3 years... Make it 9 or 10 years in proprietary trading and you'll be retiring in your late 30s. Not gonna lie, though. Not many people have endurance like that. I wonder where you can find people willing to work long hours for such a long period of time. Some people might even be willing to work that many hours for almost no pay *cough* everyone on this forum *cough*.
Click to expand...

Case in point
 
Law2Doc said:
The fruit bowl I see is full of grapes and watermelons.
Click to expand...
inside-dvd-chappelle.jpg
 
Perrotfish said:
This is what, in general, bothers me about the reoccuring ´doctors make bad salaries´threads on SDN. It´s the implicit assumption, made by almost every premed, that if they went into business/law/investment banking/plumbing/whatever, not only would they find steady work, they would be the CEO/top firm lawyer/super plumber that actually gets the 500K/year job. It´s yet another distillation of the ego problem that makes premeds so insuferable.



Case in point
Click to expand...

Hahaha. Touche. Becoming a CEO = ego. Working finance... most premeds don't even know about it, so I don't know how you can say that. The jobs are there. You can scramble for one and find one easily. Just cut your teeth for 2 years and move on up. I've seen it happen a hundred times.

You just have to take the right steps... you have to jump through the hoops and go through the "prerequisites." Interesting. Another job that requires hard work and a logical progression? Not possible.
 
dienekes88 said:
Even in this climate, first year associates at a bulge bracket bank can pull down $350k/year. Starting from the bottom with a Bachelor's degree, you can make it to associate in 3 years... Make it 9 or 10 years in proprietary trading and you'll be retiring in your late 30s. Not gonna lie, though. Not many people have endurance like that. I wonder where you can find people willing to work long hours for such a long period of time. Some people might even be willing to work that many hours for almost no pay *cough* everyone on this forum *cough*.

We can talk about the difficulty of landing a bulgebracket job... maybe the equivalent of landing a top med school? However, you can still land a bigtime job in private equity after gutting it out for 2-years in the smaller bank/hedge fund. It's like landing the big residency after med school... except you can apply for that residency at any point in your career.
Click to expand...

Funny how bank of america had to cancel a bunch of their recent hires and people that were recruited by bear stearns don't know if they will have a job next year. Landing a bulgebracket job is harder than landing a top med school since they recruit primarily from ivies (and a few other similarly regardes schools). So already if you don't attend one of maybe 10-15 schools your chances of landing such a job is greatly limited if not altogether nonexistant. In medicine you have people from the University of Podunk going to Harvard. On top of that you have the fierce competition of all the kids doing finance at ivies who all want to go in to ibanking few of which actually make it in.
 
By the way, I recognize it's difficult to get a job at a bulge bracket bank (I don't think you actually read my entire post).

Is it more or less annoying to hear these people who all think they're going to match Derm or Plastics and pull down $400k/year? There are how many Derm spots? There are how many spots in Integrated Plastics?
 
Drogba said:
Funny how bank of america had to cancel a bunch of their recent hires and people that were recruited by bear stearns don't know if they will have a job next year. Landing a bulgebracket job is harder than landing a top med school since they recruit primarily from ivies (and a few other similarly regardes schools). So already if you don't attend one of maybe 10-15 schools your chances of landing such a job is greatly limited if not altogether nonexistant. In medicine you have people from the University of Podunk going to Harvard. On top of that you have the fierce competition of all the kids doing finance at ivies who all want to go in to ibanking few of which actually make it in.
Click to expand...

Not exactly true. A lot of people at that other school in New Haven, CT gun for those jobs and make it. I don't see why it would be different at Harvard. That aside, though... you don't have to land a job at a bulgebracket bank right out of the gate. Do a couple years at one of the smaller guys and then move on up. There's fluidity. You're not locked into one school, one residency for 4-7 years.
 
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