Thoughts on nurses turned MD?

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NursingStudent16

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Just want to hear thoughts in respects to patient care and things from previous experiences as a nurse.
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It means the doc used to be a nurse.

Everything else is just anecdotes. There is no generalization that can be made about former-RN-turned-MD.

Some nurses have an easier time learning the anatomy, others have a harder time; some have an easier time learning the pharmacology, some have a harder time. Some have a better bedside manner, some have a worse one. Some are team players, some are not.
 
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There are a several people in my class who were RNs before going to medical school. Some of them are awesome, some of them are super awkward with patients and have clearly been struggling. I think it is the personality of the person, not what they did before going to medical school, that makes or breaks them.
 
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being a nurse and being a doctor are different things...
 
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NursingStudent16 said:
Just want to hear thoughts in respects to patient care and things from previous experiences as a nurse.
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I'm not an MD yet, but I am an RN. I'm probably going to apply next summer for matriculation in 2017. I think it would be weird being a student again and not being able to work independently. At the same time, I think former RNs would probably have an easier time in the clinical setting than someone who was completely new to that environment, unless they were a ****ty RN.
 
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KEB said:
I'm not an MD yet, but I am an RN. I'm probably going to apply next summer for matriculation in 2017. I think it would be weird being a student again and not being able to work independently. At the same time, I think former RNs would probably have an easier time in the clinical setting than someone who was completely new to that environment, unless they were a ****ty RN.
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They would for sure have an easier time with the clinical transition. Do you mind me asking what your GPA and MCAT are? And if you're applying to MD, DO, or both? I'm just curious because I have one more year of my BSN and thought I would love it. But getting a job as an ER tech at a level one trauma center has really made me want to become a doctor.
 
NursingStudent16 said:
They would for sure have an easier time with the clinical transition. Do you mind me asking what your GPA and MCAT are? And if you're applying to MD, DO, or both? I'm just curious because I have one more year of my BSN and thought I would love it. But getting a job as an ER tech at a level one trauma center has really made me want to become a doctor.
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I was an ER tech for 3.5 years, and now I'm a nurse in the same ER. My undergraduate degree GPA (chemistry) was ~3.5. My nursing school GPA was 3.85. I also have graduate work in biology with a 4.0 GPA. My MCAT was a 29, but that was many years ago, so I will have to retake it. I plan to apply to both MD and DO. The DO school in my state has a cohort of students who can do their rotations at one of the two hospitals in my city, so that's a plus. On the other hand, I really don't want to have to learn OMM.
 
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I was an RN before medical school, and I'll say that, in hindsight, I never realized how much I didn't know or how much I would be expected to learn in medical school. With that said, medical school is so much more enjoyable than nursing school/nursing ever was. The atmosphere is professional and supportive rather than catty. Everyone expects you to know things and there are comments when you don't, but it's just different than nursing culture.
 
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That's
acceptmeplease said:
I was an RN before medical school, and I'll say that, in hindsight, I never realized how much I didn't know or how much I would be expected to learn in medical school. With that said, medical school is so much more enjoyable than nursing school/nursing ever was. The atmosphere is professional and supportive rather than catty. Everyone expects you to know things and there are comments when you don't, but it's just different than nursing culture.
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That's just it. I feel like I'm on the wrong atmosphere and learning environment.
 
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They can make better sandwiches than traditional MDs.
 
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KEB said:
I was an ER tech for 3.5 years, and now I'm a nurse in the same ER. My undergraduate degree GPA (chemistry) was ~3.5. My nursing school GPA was 3.85. I also have graduate work in biology with a 4.0 GPA. My MCAT was a 29, but that was many years ago, so I will have to retake it. I plan to apply to both MD and DO. The DO school in my state has a cohort of students who can do their rotations at one of the two hospitals in my city, so that's a plus. On the other hand, I really don't want to have to learn OMM.
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I think everything would go really well for me, just nervous about the MCAT honestly. I still need to take all med school pre reqs (gen and Orgo chemistry, physics, and biology). I would do really well in those I believe. And my A&P experience from college would help also. My professor was an MD and set up labs similar to how med school is with the practicals, just not as in depth.
 
W19 said:
How about being a NP? NP = MD/DO, right!;)
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I had considered acute care nurse practitioner. They just don't get near as much knowledge that med school gets you, less autonomy, and always getting put down my MDs for not being as smart as them
 
acceptmeplease said:
I was an RN before medical school, and I'll say that, in hindsight, I never realized how much I didn't know or how much I would be expected to learn in medical school. With that said, medical school is so much more enjoyable than nursing school/nursing ever was. The atmosphere is professional and supportive rather than catty. Everyone expects you to know things and there are comments when you don't, but it's just different than nursing culture.
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it's funny how every nurse or pa who goes to medical school says this but ask anyone who hasn't gone through med school and they'll insist that it's the same and they do the same exact things
 
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NursingStudent16 said:
I had considered acute care nurse practitioner. They just don't get near as much knowledge that med school gets you, less autonomy, and always getting put down my MDs for not being as smart as them
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This. I know that if I stay in nursing, I will never be seen as anything more than a glorified ass-wiper, as evidenced by many of the comments on SDN. I'm too intelligent for that ****.
 
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anaesthetic said:
I know if I stay in medicine, I will never be seen as anything more than a spoiled child with a personality disorder, as evidenced by many of the comments on allnurses.com.
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It goes both ways unfortunately. Can't we all just get along and not worry about the others' education level? Lol
 
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Psai said:
it's funny how every nurse or pa who goes to medical school says this but ask anyone who hasn't gone through med school and they'll insist that it's the same and they do the same exact things
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Equal or better outcomes; you can't dispute that. Maybe physicians are over educated.:p
 
W19 said:
Equal or better outcomes; you can't dispute that. Maybe physicians are over educated.:p
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I can dispute the claim that I've ever seen a good study with equal or better outcomes
 
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masaraksh said:
by sandwiches do you mean wiping butts and placing foleys?
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Ain't no shame in doing dirty work that helps people.

If I need foley care, I'm certainly going to prefer that a nurse give it. Or at least someone who has verifiably done it before. One of my attending friends told me about the time that he and his co-resident were told to pull a foley and send the patient home on a post-op. He'd never actually placed or removed a foley before, and neither had the other guy. So, they paper-rock-scissored it and he lost and had to be the guy to pull it.

They were both FMGs. I can't imagine how else to explain that they didn't know about the balloon. The patient didn't need a surgical repair, but he didn't get discharged that night after all.

Yeah. There are just some things that are going to go smoother for someone with a background in the practical aspects of patient care. It isn't that nurses know everything, but they will hopefully get to skip making a few rookie mistakes.
 
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NursingStudent16 said:
I had considered acute care nurse practitioner. They just don't get near as much knowledge that med school gets you, less autonomy, and always getting put down my MDs for not being as smart as them
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My mentor is a RN---NP---DO and she told me that she decided to go to med school because when she was working alongside physicians as a NP, she realized there are so much she did not know.

My cousin is a MD and he said that physicians who hire NP are just putting patients' lives in jeopardy. I think he is over the top with his rhetoric, but he precepted many NP when he was a hospitalist and he said they were all terrible.
 
Physicians should stop hiring these people because they can help them make a buck... They (physicians) are just contributing to their demise. NP are learning to do scopes; they have their own derm residency now. They are advocating for 1-2 years of surgical residency so they can do minor surgeries.... They already took over anesthesia; primacy care and psych are on their way.... When this nonsense will stop?
 
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W19 said:
Equal or better outcomes; you can't dispute that. Maybe physicians are over educated.:p
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Maybe for runny noses; any studies for complex patients with multiple chronic illnesses?
 
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KEB said:
This. I know that if I stay in nursing, I will never be seen as anything more than a glorified ass-wiper, as evidenced by many of the comments on SDN. I'm too intelligent for that ****.
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i've asswiped before and i genuinely admire anyone who can do it on a regular basis
 
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Psai said:
i've asswiped before and i genuinely admire anyone who can do it on a regular basis
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I worked on a chest pain and stroke unit; the only thing I hated more than wiping butts was watching my post-cath patients eat fried chicken.
 
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W19 said:
My mentor is a RN---NP---DO and she told me that she decided to go to med school because when she was working alongside physicians as a NP, she realized there are so much she did not know.

My cousin is a MD and he said that physicians who hire NP are just putting patients' lives in jeopardy. I think he is over the top with his rhetoric, but he precepted many NP when he was a hospitalist and he said they were all terrible.
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I think it depends on the type of NP. FNP can do all of their schooling online. At my college, ACNP are required to go to classes and focus more on the things that can turn bad real quick, as opposed to FNP who is more general. And CRNAs must be pretty knowledgeable too, if an anesthesiologist only goes in to check a couple times a surgery. And not all NPs are stupid, as your cousin states.
 
NursingStudent16 said:
I think it depends on the type of NP. FNP can do all of their schooling online. At my college, ACNP are required to go to classes and focus more on the things that can turn bad real quick, as opposed to FNP who is more general. And CRNAs must be pretty knowledgeable too, if an anesthesiologist only goes in to check a couple times a surgery. And not all NPs are stupid, as your cousin states.
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not stupid, just dramatically less educated
 
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There's a neurosurgeon who was a nurse. And she has no shame putting her nursing degree next to her medical degree.
She was great to work with as a student. And she has no regrets.
 
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Psai said:
Being stupid and less educated are totally different things. Nurses are less educated than doctors. Just a fact. Doesn't make them stupid
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95% of nurse though, they would never make it in med school. If you took all the meds students out of med school and put them in nursing school, pass rate would be about 100%, If you took all the nursing students out of nursing school and put the in med school, pass rate would be about, 5% and that's being generous.
 
olivarynucleus said:
95% of nurse though, they would never make it in med school. If you took all the meds students out of med school and put them in nursing school, pass rate would be about 100%, If you took all the nursing students out of nursing school and put the in med school, pass rate would be about, 5% and that's being generous.
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Of course nurses wouldn't make it without the required pre reqs...you put ALMOST anyone in med school without those classes, they will suffer. But I would love to see the studies from which you are getting these percentages.
 
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NursingStudent16 said:
Of course nurses wouldn't make it without the required pre reqs...you put ALMOST anyone in med school without those classes, they will suffer. But I would love to see the studies from which you are getting these percentages.
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I agree those stats are imaginary. But they are two completely different pools of people. Some nurses would do just fine, some would not.
 
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W19 said:
Physicians should stop hiring these people because they can help them make a buck... They (physicians) are just contributing to their demise. NP are learning to do scopes; they have their own derm residency now. They are advocating for 1-2 years of surgical residency so they can do minor surgeries.... They already took over anesthesia; primacy care and psych are on their way.... When this nonsense will stop?
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They haven't taken over anesthesia, they are more or less in the same position they were in 20 years ago. Surprisingly they seem to not be a threat in FM or Psych either. The FM job market is so hot right now, clinics are offering 25o-350k to people right out of residency. They just don't know enough to take over and there will always be a great need for doctors. The only thing that can really lower a physicians salary is another physician in the area willing to work for less i.e. the employment situation in pathology and radiology.
 
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olivarynucleus said:
They haven't taken over anesthesia, they are more or less in the same position they were in 20 years ago. Surprisingly they seem to not be a threat in FM or Psych either. The FM job market is so hot right now, clinics are offering 25o-350k to people right out of residency. They just don't know enough to take over and there will always be a great need for doctors. The only thing that can really lower a physicians salary is another physician in the area willing to work for less i.e. the employment situation in pathology and radiology.
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psych is a big area for NP/PAs too. Are there usually a lot of residency matches in psych? More or less than family medicine?
 
NursingStudent16 said:
psych is a big area for NP/PAs too. Are there usually a lot of residency matches in psych? More or less than family medicine?
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Psych and family aren't popular among med students. I don't know why psych isn't more popular besides most med students don't see it as real medicine. The residency hours aren't bad ~50, and moonlighting is plentiful, guys in the psych forum always talk about how they made 90-100k a year during residency.
 
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olivarynucleus said:
95% of nurse though, they would never make it in med school. If you took all the meds students out of med school and put them in nursing school, pass rate would be about 100%, If you took all the nursing students out of nursing school and put the in med school, pass rate would be about, 5% and that's being generous.
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My nursing GPA was lower than my medical school GPA. Nursing tests were inherently evil. Even my most difficult exams in medical school which have required critical thinking applied to clinical vignettes still haven't been as bad as my nursing exams.

Sure. Medical school has more information, but nursing school at a good program wouldn't be as easy to many medical students as you think it would be.
 
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olivarynucleus said:
Psych and family aren't popular among med students. I don't know why psych isn't more popular besides most med students don't see it as real medicine. The residency hours aren't bad ~50, and moonlighting is plentiful, guys in the psych forum always talk about how they made 90-100k a year during residency.
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I would hope because most are smart enough to not make a career choice based off of a less demanding, more profitable residency.
 
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