Thoughts on UMichigan residency?

[smallcat]

I'm out in the "real world" already, but have a med student rotating with me who's going into pathology. He's interested in midwest programs, particularly University of Michigan. I'm not particularly familiar with their program, though I've heard that they've gone through some changes recently with their new chairman and some new faculty. Anyone know what the program is like? My impression was that they had a strong path program before- is it any different now? My student is interested in going into community practice, not academics. Will he be supported in this or is UofM one of those places that frowns on the non-academics?

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[pathstudent]

I'm out in the "real world" already, but have a med student rotating with me who's going into pathology. He's interested in midwest programs, particularly University of Michigan. I'm not particularly familiar with their program, though I've heard that they've gone through some changes recently with their new chairman and some new faculty. Anyone know what the program is like? My impression was that they had a strong path program before- is it any different now? My student is interested in going into community practice, not academics. Will he be supported in this or is UofM one of those places that frowns on the non-academics?

Based on my experience all residents at top programs at least feign a partial interest in academics on the interview and in the first few years before declaring private practice. Your friend would be wise to do the same.

 

[Pianoboe01]

I interviewed at Michigan last year and thought it was a very strong program and I ranked it highly. If I remember correctly, they have both a clinical track and a research track and want both kinds of residents. The only thing that turned me off was that the residents have to give a TON of presentations, and U of M is in a college town. Maybe a resident at U of M would like to add more about the program?

As far as feigning interest in academics, I was honest at all my interviews and the interviewers appreciated it - they can tell when people are lying about wanting to do academics. I think derm is probably the only specialty where you have to lie at interviews and say you plan to do academics.

Other midwest programs that your student should consider: Indiana and Iowa - the great majority of their residents end up in private practice and are very well trained. Besides Michigan, I also really liked Cleveland Clinic, but they are a little more academic oriented.

 

[Euchromatin]

I would also love to hear the opinions of any current residents or faculty concerning the University of Michigan program's acceptance (and later treatment) of candidates interested in community practice or non-research academic careers. The rumors I've heard claim that up until just a few years ago the chair wanted only research oriented residents, but that policy has changed to be more flexible recently.

If anyone could comment on the overall atmosphere or "personality" of the program (i.e. how laid back faculty are, and how the residents interact with each other and staff) that would be very helpful. I have also heard that some residents have difficulty keeping up with the workload and making time to go to lectures/conferences, which seemed odd to me, since, as a top program, they probably get their choice of competitive candidates.

Feel free to PM me. Thanks!

 

[yaah]

The current chair has been in place for ~3-4 years, can't remember exactly. U of M has always had a mix of resident types (academic with primarily research focus, academic with clinical focus, and private practice). The mix hasn't really changed much over the years, although there have been fewer pure research graduates recently. All high-power programs always want more residents to go into academics, but they also want the best residents they can get. Michigan is no exception. They generally try to take some people who seem set on academics, but not all. I would never advise anyone to lie about their favored career path. Many incoming residents don't really know, or aren't sure yet. Many think they are sure but change their mind (in both directions) - it's kind of like incoming med students.

In every program there will be some residents who have trouble keeping up with workload. This is user driven. In my years there the majority of residents had no trouble keeping up with things. It is not necessarily a "laid back" program but it is also certainly not an aggressive program. The workload is reasonably heavy but not excessive (surg path and hemepath months primarily - CP months are less intense). Residents are treated well and generally as colleagues by most attendings (particularly if they work hard and show promise). Residents who work poorly or not as hard tend to have more difficulties with attendings and with the workload (this should not be surprising). There are a lot of lectures and conferences (an 8am conference every day, a 5pm conference a couple times a week), but this is not a bad thing.

 

[pathstudent]

They generally try to take some people who seem set on academics, but not all. I would never advise anyone to lie about their favored career path. Many incoming residents don't really know, or aren't sure yet. Many think they are sure but change their mind (in both directions) - it's kind of like incoming med students.

My experience is that all those people who say they aren't sure about academics or private practice are for sure going into private practice.

I believe that they are never not truly unsure about it but know that they will ultimately choose private practice and are just saying they are "unsure" or are "considering" academics so they can stay in favor of faculty.

I have never seen anyone say they were unsure about their career path actually go into academics. THey go into private practice every time. If you are wanting to go to a top tier coastal pathology (UCSF, Stanford, BWH, JHU), no matter what at least say you are "considering" academics. It makes you less attractive if you say you are not, and I should know having sat in on multiple ranking meetings for programs.

 

[yaah]

I have never seen anyone say they were unsure about their career path actually go into academics.

I've seen several.

 

[LADoc00]

If you are wanting to go to a top tier coastal pathology (UCSF, Stanford, BWH, JHU), no matter what at least say you are "considering" academics.

Hrm...Having attended a "top tier costal blahblah" there were plenty of people who interviewed with the full intention to be community pathologists.

Folks, we dont need more academics. We have TONS. If all the "academics" were cutting edge basic scientists would be one thing, but they arent.

The last thing we need is the 120th+ revision of the lymphoma/leukemia classification system because we have so many academics sitting around in need of something to do.

 

[2121115]

Agree with the above posts. 95% of academic pathologists just do clinical work like community pathologists. The only difference is that they teach residents and occasionally have an eager resident write up an abstract or an article. It is no wonder that most people who are on the fence go to private practice. Why would you take a job doing the exact same thing but making less money? Unless you are one of the 5% actually doing real research academics is a raw deal.

 

[ScotchBonnet]

Hrm...Having attended a "top tier costal blahblah" there were plenty of people who interviewed with the full intention to be community pathologists.

Yep. I interviewed at 2 of the 4 programs listed by pathstudent (I didin't apply to the other 2 or any other programs on the opposite coast). At both, the PD's seemed to go out of their way that they were welcoming of trainees intending on private practice. I am at one of the "top" programs not on a coast and it is the same here.

 

[yaah]

Why would you take a job doing the exact same thing but making less money? Unless you are one of the 5% actually doing real research academics is a raw deal.

Because you get to teach more, and you get to subspecialize more (academic centers are generally, but not always, higher volume within niche fields). Plus, you get more time off of service. Some people also like to be the ones writing book chapters and speaking at national meetings or conferences. Academics also has some more comfortable aspects to it - you don't have to worry as much about the business side of things, you can ignore CP totally if you want to, call responsibilities are often less, and job security is often better. In addition, some people start their careers in academics to position themselves for a better private job down the line.

 

[BierstiefelAndy]

Because you get to teach more, and you get to subspecialize more (academic centers are generally, but not always, higher volume within niche fields). Plus, you get more time off of service. Some people also like to be the ones writing book chapters and speaking at national meetings or conferences. Academics also has some more comfortable aspects to it - you don't have to worry as much about the business side of things, you can ignore CP totally if you want to, call responsibilities are often less, and job security is often better. In addition, some people start their careers in academics to position themselves for a better private job down the line.

Well put. Could not have said it better myself.