Time to come clean: I just want to make $$$..!!

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My friend worked for a painter last year that runs his own small business. It's amazing what some people are willing to pay to get interior or exterior of houses painted. He makes 6 figures a year easy and has lead abatement cert. which helps (so does his random PhD).
We had an estimate done on our ceiling for the kitchen and foyer last summer, they said 2400 (wtf?!?!). We painted it ourselves, but people pay that.

Trade is good if you don't mind weather, busting your butt physically, and possibly a bad back or shoulder by your 50s.

and here you are going to be a physician and you're recommending someone goes into a career that could possibly screw his back up ;)

I know the money is good, but that's not what I life. looking for something professional, $200k+, guaranteed / high chance of making that sort of money, of course. a little prestige wouldn't hurt either.

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So all week long, I've been feeling down. started last week actually. Some of the responses in this thread doesn't help either. Yes, your concerns are warranted.

I've decided to take my goals towards pathology. Im budgeting roughly 1 & half - 2 years of GPA repair BEFORE I can have a decent shot. So...:

(1) will finish masters next year, get a job with that (looking at 60kish - 70kish starting salary)
(2) while working, will enroll in night school / online school, whatever
(3) I doubt I'm cracking 500 on the MCAT next month, so will schedule another retake next fall.
(4) while working, will use some of the money to fund the pre-reqs and upper level science courses, so I can save on loans
(5) will be taking 2 classes at a time. anything science / bio science related, will take. The aim is a B+ or better in each course
(6) yeah, I know. I'm a scumbag. but come from the kind of home I come from, expectations, etc. and you'll go chasing after the big bucks too.

The alternative plan is to get a PhD related to the program I'm doing now. It's fully funded, and I'll be around 30 - 31 when I'm done. so will apply to med school during my last semester in the program.

I've checked out some Caribbean schools as well.

I'll register for my warmup course this weekend. It's a 1 credit class. Medical Terminology. it costs like $500. it's a good warm-up for the more memory intensive stuff like orgo, etc. So hopefully I can pull an A there.

P.s. with all the debt, courses, retakes I'm already in, might as well just go all the way and try to get an M.D. / D.O. for all my troubles.
 
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No they won’t. You still have commitment issues. You keep saying the bad grades are long gone but you just barely took the mcat and didn’t even try/study/commit to it. You wrote a whole post about it. You seem to have a lot of red flags, not just on your transcript but also personally with commitment. Now I understand why; it’s all about money

I know, man. working on it. you just don't understand. it's all good though.

& I'm sure many of you are definitely looking forward to your big pay days someday when you finish residency. ya'll just not admitting it, but it's cool.
 
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I know, man. working on it. you just don't understand. it's all good though.

& I'm sure many of you are definitely looking forward to your big pay days someday when you finish residency. ya'll just not admitting it, but it's cool.
I just don’t understand how you’re gonna commit a few years to getting A’s and then 7-10 years of rigorous study and training when you recently showed that you can’t commit a few months to studying for the mcat or commit to taking some post bacc classes. You said you straight up failed them because you didn’t go. This wasn’t years ago when you were young. This is recent. And I’m not saying this just to be a d*ck, but rather trying to help you see objectively so that you don’t end up a million dollars in debt and absolutely nothing to show for it. Do not go Caribbean, they accept a larger number than they rotation sites for. They make their money expecting people to fail out. If I were gonna spend 50-60k in tuition, I’d want a higher placement rate than 50ish%.

It’s easy to have the million dollar/success mentality; most people have it. It’s another to have the million dollar/success work ethic.
 
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So all week long, I've been feeling down. started last week actually. Some of the responses in this thread doesn't help either. Yes, your concerns are warranted.

I've decided to take my goals towards pathology. Im budgeting roughly 1 & half - 2 years of GPA repair BEFORE I can have a decent shot. So...:

(1) will finish masters next year, get a job with that (looking at 60kish - 70kish starting salary)
(2) while working, will enroll in night school / online school, whatever
(3) I doubt I'm cracking 500 on the MCAT next month, so will schedule another retake next fall.
(4) while working, will use some of the money to fund the pre-reqs and upper level science courses, so I can save on loans
(5) will be taking 2 classes at a time. anything science / bio science related, will take. The aim is a B+ or better in each course
(6) yeah, I know. I'm a scumbag. but come from the kind of home I come from, expectations, etc. and you'll go chasing after the big bucks too.

The alternative plan is to get a PhD related to the program I'm doing now. It's fully funded, and I'll be around 30 - 31 when I'm done. so will apply to med school during my last semester in the program.

I've checked out some Caribbean schools as well.

I'll register for my warmup course this weekend. It's a 1 credit class. Medical Terminology. it costs like $500. it's a good warm-up for the more memory intensive stuff like orgo, etc. So hopefully I can pull an A there.

P.s. with all the debt, courses, retakes I'm already in, might as well just go all the way and try to get an M.D. / D.O. for all my troubles.

It's great that you have a set goal in mind, but I'm not sure if it's realistic.

You mention that with work, you will apply for night classes and taking 1-2 classes slowly. That's time and money right there. I'm not saying you couldn't do it, but it would get more difficult to keep up, especially if you have a family/other obligations. If I recall correctly, your undergrad GPAs were quite low. You would need a considerate amount of courses in a short amount of time to bring that up.

I don't really see how a PhD would help you in terms of getting accepted into med schools.

I would not bother with Caribbean schools. You would have to get accepted to certain schools there that has somewhat of a chance for students to get residencies in the state. The chance of getting a residency spot is quite low.

You are basing all of this planning on the fact that you want to go to pathology as your specialty. Are you for certain that you want to go that route? Most people in medical schools end up changing their minds on the specialties they want to get into or they couldn't get into it and ended up in Internal medicine/family practice. I thought pathology would be a fun class to learn about, but it ended up being one of the classes I dislike.

Of course money and prestige is a big incentive of going to a medical profession. I'm sure everyone here has thought about making the big $$ in their future career. However, I feel that you are focusing too much on those incentives and not the bigger picture. You have subpar numbers (idk what your MCAT score was), trying to get into medical schools for a profession (pathology) that's competitive to get into, and it will take you 8-10 years to accomplish. Are you sure you really want to go through with your plan, piling up your debt even more, for a small chance of getting the field you want?
 
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There are numerous careers that are related to medicine and can be in clinical setting that do not require med schools.

Starting from NPs, DPTs, clinical psychology, genetic counseling, clinical pathology or laboratory; there are also PhD careers in virology, infectious diseases, immunology, clinical anatomy and more. All of these generally start near 70-90k though.

Since your goal is to make around 200K or so, another non-med school career is CRNA, but the path is very hard and long as well.


Like many have mentioned, there are other ways besides med school to earn 150-200k. But, like you said you don't want to work hard.

Who said becoming a doctor is any easier. Even being a doctor is not so easy being responsible and disciplined. Although doctors sent work out in the sun or cold, medicine is not really easy. It is hard in different measures.

Doctors have higher suicadal rate among all career fields. It is a profession that puts a lot of stress and pressure on the person.

Consider that.
 
OP should prolly stay away from marriage if he wants to accumulate a massive amount of wealth as well lol.
 
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I don't think you'd be able to work full time in a career (not a job like some college kids but an actual career) and take classes. You need to do alot of bio/chem retakes and most of those classes will have lecture 3-4 days a week (usually during the day) and 2-3 labs a week too (some labs can start after 5 but I wouldn't count on it since they are about 3 hours EACH day just for lab). It's going to be hard to find a career career that will just let you leave to attend lectures at 8 am or noon.

You're being way too caught up on the income, and not looking at the debt. 200K a year doesn't mean jack **** if your loans are 4-600K not including interest that will accrue at 7-15% every month. Plus you mention you're older than a traditional student (so >25 years old), you'll be starting med school in 2-3 years, plus another 8-9 years total before you're an attending. While all this is happening, you current loans are going to EXPLODE, so as you battle those, you're med school loans will explode on top of that. Do you see why I don't think it's a good idea? And that's just based on assuming you're 25; if you're ~30, forget about it.
 
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and here you are going to be a physician and you're recommending someone goes into a career that could possibly screw his back up ;)

I know the money is good, but that's not what I life. looking for something professional, $200k+, guaranteed / high chance of making that sort of money, of course. a little prestige wouldn't hurt either.
It's all good man, was just giving out other options in case you didn't know.

Also, I work in a pathology lab. Ya you don't deal with patients but you have to deal with lab employees and reading/signing on hundreds of protocols that are boring as hell to read. Believe it or not, the field is saturated, and that's on top of the fact that most hospitals only take a handful of pathology residents each year, so it's competitive on that basis already. Plain and simple, a hospital doesn't need many of them in the lab, as opposed to the armies of IM and EM docs that are there.

Again, it's doable. Just giving firsthand advice on how tough that road is.
 
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I usually mostly lurk these days instead of post but this whole thread has really compelled me to post because it's bothered me that much reading through it.

Ok look Dr. Phoot, I totally get where you're coming from wanting to prove others wrong and not wanting to give up on your goals until you've exhausted all options, but sometimes you need to get real and realize that the mountain you are trying to climb has ended up much more difficult and steeper than you originally expected and you're better off heading back down than continuing and and getting yourself killed because of your pride. There's a reason why so many strangers on here that you've never met are trying to warn you despite it having no effect on them whatsoever whether this works out for you or not. It's not like 1 or 2, it's like 10+ people.

My biggest problem with all this is your motivation. Yeah, no one here is going to deny that the money and prestige that comes with the job aren't nice perks but your main motivation to be entering this job HAS TO BE because you have a passion for medicine and a general sense of wanting to help people, just like a chef has to have a passion for cooking. They absolutely grilled me during interviews about that and I actually had a passion for it. The interviewer at NYCPM straight up asked me "Do you have a passion for medicine?" and then followed up with I kid you not 6 "are you sure?". Seemed like no matter how much I said yes and tried to explain, it wasn't a good enough answer to him. In hindsight I see that he was trying to get me to break and say "IDK, maybe not", so they can pick up very easily if you are B.S.ing them. I worked for 2 years after undergrad in a FM office as an MA/phlebotomist/biller/office manager for almost minimum wage. I knew I could have made much more money elsewhere but I also knew that I wouldn't have learned as much. If I was motivated by money I'd never have been there, but the reason I put up with working 11 hours a day commuting 1.5 hrs both ways for pocket change was because I was motivated by wanting to actually learn medicine and generally enjoyed the job. Looking back now, it was 100% worth it and those doctors I worked with now have my back for the rest of my life because I earned their trust and respect for putting in the work.

It's nice and all you have this plan, and it seems like you're good at coming up with these plans, but bro you have to actually commit to and carry out your plans to be successful, not coming up with new ones after after realizing the previous one isn't working out. Failure shouldn't be an option. The biggest red flag to me is your MCAT story. I remember you were thinking of applying way back like 3 years ago when I was. It shouldn't take 3 years to get your s**t together to take/retake the MCAT and score a 500. That part is way easier and less time consuming than going back and fixing all your pre rec grades. If you can't do the easy part, how the hell can you realistically do the harder more time consuming part?! Do you honestly think you will in a year be able to juggle according to your current plan: a job, part time classes, and studying for the MCAT? Bro you don't have enough time in a day to do all 3 of those things successfully, you're going to screw up in at least one of those if not all. You're going to have in med school a pile of material with very little time to study it for tests. You can't drag out studying for a test in pod school 3 years.

Also a big thing for you is wearing these nice fancy suits, ok yeah you can do that but its not a smart idea with all the procedures you do as a pod. You going to ruin your expensive ass suit trying to perform ingrown toenail removals, foot debridements, nail grinding, etc. Some specialties maybe you can get away with wearing the fancy suit and never touching a patient, but Pod is not one of them. And if you become a pathologist walking around the hospital like your Gucci model guy picture you posted, I guarantee you every other doctor in that hospital is going to think you are a complete tool. I've never seen any pathologist in a path lab dress like that.

If you want to make big bucks and dress in fancy suits, you should have went into business or finance. Honestly sounds like you have the mentality for that much more than a doctor but you want the "safe guaranteed 200K+" job and probably think the business job is not a safe bet and a huge risk. Yet what you don't realize is you're whole plan to get into med school right now is an even bigger gamble. I don't know how you can realistically think you can get into an MD or DO program with that 1.5 GPA and your current MCAT practice scores in the 480s. That's completely delusional. I would give you a slim chance for podiatry only because I know firsthand that apps are way down and there are a lot of empty seats so the schools would be more likely to roll the dice on you since the other alternative would be to not fill the seat. But if pod apps weren't down I'd give you no chance either. And the schools even then might not take you because they might think you won't be able to pass their classes or boards and flunk out and mess up their graduation and board pass rates they like to advertise to prospective students. Just because you got into med school doesn't mean you will make it through. I've seen multiple fellow students fail out out every year, students with higher GPAs/MCATs than you. My first semester roommate who had a science masters from Barry where he took biochem alongside Barry pod students flunked NYCPM biochem and was kicked out. The curriculum is NOT A JOKE. It's 10 times harder than undergrad.

You can try and apply pod but please don't go Caribbean, you are exactly the type of student they prey on. Someone who is sure they can make it and doesn't care the price as long as they are given a shot. We have 5 kids in our class who flunked out/left the Caribbean now doing pod. They're actually doing well now in pod school as far as I'm aware but they got played down in the carib and just wasted tons of $$$.

You don't like to hear what I wrote, fine prove me wrong. But you need to actually commit 100% and stop flaking out. Your number 1 goal rn needs to be to focus completely on the MCAT and score that 500. If you can't do that then you're wasting all your time anyway trying to boost your GPA. One final tip, Idk if this might help you but I finally saw a doctor about the pretty obvious ADHD I had left untreated until I started pod school, and it helped me immensely right away actually get more studying done and improved my grades considerably. If you are having trouble sitting down and committing to studying I'd suggest you see if that's something holding you back. It's a real disease and not some laziness excuse. I hope though whatever option you take going forward you at least really listened to everyones warnings and evaluate if the risk really is worth taking, because there is a very high chance you will be left with piles of debt and no med school acceptances in your 30s with no idea what to do. If you have any chance of being succeful, there needs to be serious change on your part and so far I don't see it until you get the MCAT situation dealt with.
 
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Actually, honestly thinking about it some more I think you are really pursuing the completely wrong field. Clearly from reading your other thread "why podiatry", you seem to really like informatics. You don't seem to like any of the actual things podiatrists actually do. You claim you don't care if you just clip nails all day as long as you make bank, but no one goes into podiatry school because they want to only clip nails. If they really wanted that, they'd just open a pedicure salon and skip all the schooling. You should get excited about the prospect of doing surgeries, x-rays, procedures, interacting with patients and helping solve their issues, possibly saving someone's life. I don't see anywhere where you said you like that kind of stuff. I honestly think as crazy as it sounds, if I'd ask you which you would prefer, a patient coming up to you saying, "OMG thank you Dr. Phoot for saving my leg from amputation!" or "Wow Dr. Phoot you look stunning in that suit and your Porche looks absolutely baller!", you would actually pick the second one. There's nothing inheritantly wrong with that in general, all personal preferance, but it is a problem for someone who claims to want to become a doctor.

We had a bioinformatics/coder hybrid guy come and give a speech about his job in my undergrad bioinformatics class. He was working for some genome database and making 200K only 1 year into the job out of school. That honestly sounds like more where you should focus your efforts. You can make your big bucks, wear whatever the hell you want including your nice suits that won't get dirtied up, and the work might actually interest you instead of just being a job. The only thing you would be missing is the doctor title and some prestige but bro honestly, who the hell really cares about that?! Do your PHD in bioinformatics and learn some coding if you already don't, that guy on page 1 mentioned the coding boot camps, and I think you'll be a much happier person than putting yourself through all this B.S. you are right now. All this prestige, big salary, fancy cars, fancy suits stuff just tells me that you are insecure about yourself and just trying to impress others. Just stop. Screw what others think, do what makes YOU happy. If you're happy and enjoy what you do than people will notice that and respect you far more than doing something "supposedly prestigious" to look good but deep down you're miserable or bored. I've been on a lot of dates recently and the girls that have their eyes light up when I ask about their jobs were far more attractive/interesting than the ones who clearly didn't enjoy their jobs.
 
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Actually, honestly thinking about it some more I think you are really pursuing the completely wrong field. Clearly from reading your other thread "why podiatry", you seem to really like informatics. You don't seem to like any of the actual things podiatrists actually do. You claim you don't care if you just clip nails all day as long as you make bank, but no one goes into podiatry school because they want to only clip nails. If they really wanted that, they'd just open a pedicure salon and skip all the schooling. You should get excited about the prospect of doing surgeries, x-rays, procedures, interacting with patients and helping solve their issues, possibly saving someone's life. I don't see anywhere where you said you like that kind of stuff. I honestly think as crazy as it sounds, if I'd ask you which you would prefer, a patient coming up to you saying, "OMG thank you Dr. Phoot for saving my leg from amputation!" or "Wow Dr. Phoot you look stunning in that suit and your Porche looks absolutely baller!", you would actually pick the second one. There's nothing inheritantly wrong with that in general, all personal preferance, but it is a problem for someone who claims to want to become a doctor.

We had a bioinformatics/coder hybrid guy come and give a speech about his job in my undergrad bioinformatics class. He was working for some genome database and making 200K only 1 year into the job out of school. That honestly sounds like more where you should focus your efforts. You can make your big bucks, wear whatever the hell you want including your nice suits that won't get dirtied up, and the work might actually interest you instead of just being a job. The only thing you would be missing is the doctor title and some prestige but bro honestly, who the hell really cares about that?! Do your PHD in bioinformatics and learn some coding if you already don't, that guy on page 1 mentioned the coding boot camps, and I think you'll be a much happier person than putting yourself through all this B.S. you are right now. All this prestige, big salary, fancy cars, fancy suits stuff just tells me that you are insecure about yourself and just trying to impress others. Just stop. Screw what others think, do what makes YOU happy. If you're happy and enjoy what you do than people will notice that and respect you far more than doing something "supposedly prestigious" to look good but deep down you're miserable or bored. I've been on a lot of dates recently and the girls that have their eyes light up when I ask about their jobs were far more attractive/interesting than the ones who clearly didn't enjoy their jobs.
Excellent posts.
 
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this morning I fell asleep on the couch. I went to bed around 2 am. And I woke up about 4am to a bad dream. In the dream I had made a post on this site, this very sub-section, and it had gotten me into some real serious legal trouble. The dream felt so real, I started sweating buckets until I came to my senses and realized it was a dream.

turns out the dream was actually a sign & the message wasn't so obvious:

for the past couple of weeks, I've stayed away from this forum altogether. & I mean no reading, no posting, "no nothing". I just stayed away completely. But in the back of my mind, this thread, the replies in this thread, the piercing words of @El Barrio resonated with me. Well, today I came to work and got some pretty bad news. I'll be out of work soon and it's just screwed up all my plans. I talked to one of my close buddies about the impending doom and he was like just give med school a shot again and see. Out of my desperation and confusion, I jumped online and I've started the application process for 2 schools (will apply for 5 total) in the Caribbeans as we speak. I intend to fully enroll, take on the loans, and just go and get it over with. I'll be getting the recc letter submitted, the p/s, and of course the MCAT is next month. after I get the axe at work, I'll spend the few weeks in May just prepping and trying to crack a 487+ which should help me land a seat in any of these "I-Just-Want-Your-Money-University-of-Medicine" type of schools.

I appreciate some of the advice, words of encouragement etc., that many of you have provided over the course of this 4-page "pouring my heart out" thread. but at this point, I really have no other options. If I get in, I'll leave my masters program and just go. I believe one of the schools even offers a pre-med / pre-sciences program for a year before actual med school classes. maybe I'll qualify for one of those? Not sure.

I've been binge watching the show "Better Call Saul" & it's really inspiring how the slacker Jimmy, good for nothing, wasting time etc, goes to some no name American Samoa school, online too, and manages to land a big pay day. sure he struggled a bit at first, but in the end he was still a legal licensed attorney. maybe this Caribbean school is my "American Samoa" & it's my chance at redemption? no school stateside would want me anyway, so screw it. I know I'll be forever banished to specialties like FM/peds, etc but so what? (Average salary pediatric physician: $154,448/yr..!!!)

so the dream meant: something--not good--will happen & i'll end up posting about it here.

writing this @ work, still feeling confused about the whole thing, but I have no other options anymore really.


& as always, I will NOT disclose which schools, programs, anything that can be traced back so don't ask for too much particular / specifics.

thanks for your time!
 
this morning I fell asleep on the couch. I went to bed around 2 am. And I woke up about 4am to a bad dream. In the dream I had made a post on this site, this very sub-section, and it had gotten me into some real serious legal trouble. The dream felt so real, I started sweating buckets until I came to my senses and realized it was a dream.

turns out the dream was actually a sign & the message wasn't so obvious:

for the past couple of weeks, I've stayed away from this forum altogether. & I mean no reading, no posting, "no nothing". I just stayed away completely. But in the back of my mind, this thread, the replies in this thread, the piercing words of @El Barrio resonated with me. Well, today I came to work and got some pretty bad news. I'll be out of work soon and it's just screwed up all my plans. I talked to one of my close buddies about the impending doom and he was like just give med school a shot again and see. Out of my desperation and confusion, I jumped online and I've started the application process for 2 schools (will apply for 5 total) in the Caribbeans as we speak. I intend to fully enroll, take on the loans, and just go and get it over with. I'll be getting the recc letter submitted, the p/s, and of course the MCAT is next month. after I get the axe at work, I'll spend the few weeks in May just prepping and trying to crack a 487+ which should help me land a seat in any of these "I-Just-Want-Your-Money-University-of-Medicine" type of schools.

I appreciate some of the advice, words of encouragement etc., that many of you have provided over the course of this 4-page "pouring my heart out" thread. but at this point, I really have no other options. If I get in, I'll leave my masters program and just go. I believe one of the schools even offers a pre-med / pre-sciences program for a year before actual med school classes. maybe I'll qualify for one of those? Not sure.

I've been binge watching the show "Better Call Saul" & it's really inspiring how the slacker Jimmy, good for nothing, wasting time etc, goes to some no name American Samoa school, online too, and manages to land a big pay day. sure he struggled a bit at first, but in the end he was still a legal licensed attorney. maybe this Caribbean school is my "American Samoa" & it's my chance at redemption? no school stateside would want me anyway, so screw it. I know I'll be forever banished to specialties like FM/peds, etc but so what? (Average salary pediatric physician: $154,448/yr..!!!)

so the dream meant: something--not good--will happen & i'll end up posting about it here.

writing this @ work, still feeling confused about the whole thing, but I have no other options anymore really.


& as always, I will NOT disclose which schools, programs, anything that can be traced back so don't ask for too much particular / specifics.

thanks for your time!
Please don’t do Caribbean man. The match rate is like 50%.. and that’s for the people that stay in. If you take into account how many matriculate it’s lower. Spend some time reading on this forum about the Caribbean and you’ll find its baaaad news. Honestly, and take it however you want, if I were you I’d get a 2nd bachelors degree in nursing. Spend a few years as an RN (they make decent money and have a decent lifestyle) and then while continuing to work as an RN, I’d get my DNP from an online program. Then when you become a DNP you can work in family medicine or whatever. Salary is easy 6 figures, no debt, and still doing medicine. That’s what I would do if I was in your exact shoes
 
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Please don’t do Caribbean man. The match rate is like 50%.. and that’s for the people that stay in. If you take into account how many matriculate it’s lower. Spend some time reading on this forum about the Caribbean and you’ll find its baaaad news. Honestly, and take it however you want, if I were you I’d get a 2nd bachelors degree in nursing. Spend a few years as an RN (they make decent money and have a decent lifestyle) and then while continuing to work as an RN, I’d get my DNP from an online program. Then when you become a DNP you can work in family medicine or whatever. Salary is easy 6 figures, no debt, and still doing medicine. That’s what I would do if I was in your exact shoes
Exactly what I would say.

I would try to get into accelerated BSN or even MSN programs. You usually complete them in 16 months, 4 semesters or so. You can start working right away and get $25-35/hr depending where you live. And while hou work you can start DNP program. You will be able to work and study. Most DNPs start at 100K and up depending on the specialty. That 50-80K difference for Family Physician does not worth the high loans and high risks.

I would suggest that.

Honestly,

I think anyone can still have a chance at DO schools. If you would get at least 3.5-3.7 for 1-2 years post-bacc and 500+ MCAT, you have chances to get into US DO school. Many DO schools reward reinvention.

Good Luck.
 
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I'll be out of work soon and it's just screwed up all my plans.
and he was like just give med school a shot again and see.
Out of my desperation and confusion,
I really have no other options
still feeling confused
I wouldn't advise to make such an important decision while you are still confused. Looks like primary motivations is based on emotions and feelings and not a rational decision. I would not advise going with just your emotions. From your post I get that what made you do that is just that your plans were screwed. It's not the best reason to go to Caribbean school.

I am sorry, but I smell failure down the road. I think so because from your posts I get that you don't really have motivation towards medicine and patients. Your primary reasons are nice suits, cars and money. There is nothing wrong with getting paid well for what you do, but you are going the hard route and you need a lots of motivation and self-drive.

I don't see that.

I can see why some people go and are successful at Caribbean schools. I have read successful stories. These people are highly motivated and well disciplined. There is nothing else they want to do besides medicine and if that means they have to go to Caribbean, they go. Those who go to Caribbean and come out successfully are hard working people with lots of motivation and support.

If your only motivations is income potential, I can see you become exhausted and get dismissed with lots of loans and unfinished Masters degree.

You are willing to spend another 5-8 years to get to 150-200k, while I think there are other paths that will lead you to the similar salaries without 8 years or 400K debt. (I hear Caribbean schools are much more expensive).

Good Luck.
 
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no school stateside would want me anyway, so screw it. I know I'll be forever banished to specialties like FM/peds, etc but so what? (Average salary pediatric physician: $154,448/yr..!!!)

so the dream meant: something--not good--will happen & i'll end up posting about it here.

writing this @ work, still feeling confused about the whole thing, but I have no other options anymore really.


& as always, I will NOT disclose which schools, programs, anything that can be traced back so don't ask for too much particular / specifics.

thanks for your time![/QUOTE]
Man just take it easy and think for a little. I work in a lab and we have a med rep salesman from Abbott that comes in weekly. He makes close to 150k, has a cushy lifestyle, wears a full suit every time (with wayyyy to much cologne) and absolutely loves it. It's pretty much everything you're looking for.

Eff the prestige, guy. You know anyone over 40 with that type of job that could give a fork about what people think of them. Get something basic in business, work on an MBA, and meet the right people. It's about 2000 miles closer and 300k cheaper. Just think.
 
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I would also highly advise against going to a Caribbean school. It's a very cut-throat environment there and even after you pass all the Steps, there is no guarantee of matching. Imagine being in over 150K in debt and not passing Step 1 or being over 300K in debt after getting an MD and not matching.

Do something..anything..in the US..but do not go that Carrib route.
 
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If this were me, I would stop, take a break from school, find a low level stress job, and regroup. MD/DO/DDS/DPM schools will always be there.

I would never go to the Caribbean. Id go to pharmacy school before the Caribbean, they have a much higher rate of actually being able to work in the United States for what they went to school for.

OP, why not look at other professions? Nursing was one option, and thats a great route. I personally would not do nursing if being a doc was out of the realm of possibility. If my GPA was a sub 3.0 and I couldnt get into Podiatry school, Id look at optometry or Pharmacy. Both are pretty saturated, but both almost gaurentee a low six figure salary (PharmD much more so than OD).

If money is your thing, cant go wrong with the nurse anesthetist route. The make anywhere from 120-200K/year.

this morning I fell asleep on the couch. I went to bed around 2 am. And I woke up about 4am to a bad dream. In the dream I had made a post on this site, this very sub-section, and it had gotten me into some real serious legal trouble. The dream felt so real, I started sweating buckets until I came to my senses and realized it was a dream.

turns out the dream was actually a sign & the message wasn't so obvious:

for the past couple of weeks, I've stayed away from this forum altogether. & I mean no reading, no posting, "no nothing". I just stayed away completely. But in the back of my mind, this thread, the replies in this thread, the piercing words of @El Barrio resonated with me. Well, today I came to work and got some pretty bad news. I'll be out of work soon and it's just screwed up all my plans. I talked to one of my close buddies about the impending doom and he was like just give med school a shot again and see. Out of my desperation and confusion, I jumped online and I've started the application process for 2 schools (will apply for 5 total) in the Caribbeans as we speak. I intend to fully enroll, take on the loans, and just go and get it over with. I'll be getting the recc letter submitted, the p/s, and of course the MCAT is next month. after I get the axe at work, I'll spend the few weeks in May just prepping and trying to crack a 487+ which should help me land a seat in any of these "I-Just-Want-Your-Money-University-of-Medicine" type of schools.

I appreciate some of the advice, words of encouragement etc., that many of you have provided over the course of this 4-page "pouring my heart out" thread. but at this point, I really have no other options. If I get in, I'll leave my masters program and just go. I believe one of the schools even offers a pre-med / pre-sciences program for a year before actual med school classes. maybe I'll qualify for one of those? Not sure.

I've been binge watching the show "Better Call Saul" & it's really inspiring how the slacker Jimmy, good for nothing, wasting time etc, goes to some no name American Samoa school, online too, and manages to land a big pay day. sure he struggled a bit at first, but in the end he was still a legal licensed attorney. maybe this Caribbean school is my "American Samoa" & it's my chance at redemption? no school stateside would want me anyway, so screw it. I know I'll be forever banished to specialties like FM/peds, etc but so what? (Average salary pediatric physician: $154,448/yr..!!!)

so the dream meant: something--not good--will happen & i'll end up posting about it here.

writing this @ work, still feeling confused about the whole thing, but I have no other options anymore really.


& as always, I will NOT disclose which schools, programs, anything that can be traced back so don't ask for too much particular / specifics.

thanks for your time!
 
If money is your thing, cant go wrong with the nurse anesthetist route.
Mayo Clinic CRNA School

Mayo Clinic Rochester
Nurse Anesthesia Practice Program




Quick Facts:


Program Length: 42 months, full time

Credit Hours: 116 academic credits. 86 didactic and 30 clinical.

Cost of CRNA School:

Cost of Tuition: $58,910
Fees and expenses: $1,585
Grand Total: $60,495


Class Size:
Up to 26 students

Program Requirements

CRNA Program Requirements


Required Bachelor Degree:

BSN or Bachelor of Science or Arts in an appropriate biological science related field from an accredited institution.

RN:
Have a current valid RN license upon enrollment.

Critical Care:
At least one year of acceptable clinical experience, as an RN, in an intensive care setting by your enrollment date. Two or more years of ICU experience is highly preferred.

Acceptable critical care experience includes:

  • ICU ONLY
They do not accept:

  • Post-Anesthesia Care Unit
  • Emergency Room
GPA:
Minimum cumulative GPA of 3.0 is required. Additional weight is given to select science courses and graduate science courses.
 
Mayo Clinic CRNA School

Mayo Clinic Rochester
Nurse Anesthesia Practice Program




Quick Facts:


Program Length: 42 months, full time

Credit Hours: 116 academic credits. 86 didactic and 30 clinical.

Cost of CRNA School:

Cost of Tuition: $58,910
Fees and expenses: $1,585
Grand Total: $60,495


Class Size:
Up to 26 students

Program Requirements

CRNA Program Requirements


Required Bachelor Degree:

BSN or Bachelor of Science or Arts in an appropriate biological science related field from an accredited institution.

RN:
Have a current valid RN license upon enrollment.

Critical Care:
At least one year of acceptable clinical experience, as an RN, in an intensive care setting by your enrollment date. Two or more years of ICU experience is highly preferred.

Acceptable critical care experience includes:

  • ICU ONLY
They do not accept:

  • Post-Anesthesia Care Unit
  • Emergency Room
GPA:
Minimum cumulative GPA of 3.0 is required. Additional weight is given to select science courses and graduate science courses.
This seems tougher to get into than med school.

4-year long education. Tuition is 60K. You have to have BSN and at least 1 year ICU experience.

These ICU jobs are tough to land as well.

These CRNA programs are best for people who have experience and good educational background that decided on CRNA a little later in the game. Otherwise, I think it is easier to get into med school. And it is cheaper. Within the same time you become a doctor.
 
This seems tougher to get into than med school.

4-year long education. Tuition is 60K. You have to have BSN and at least 1 year ICU experience.

These ICU jobs are tough to land as well.

These CRNA programs are best for people who have experience and good educational background that decided on CRNA a little later in the game. Otherwise, I think it is easier to get into med school. And it is cheaper. Within the same time you become a doctor.

CNA-BSN-NP-DNP or CRNA at this point
CRNA can easily make over 150K right after school
The good thing about the nursing route is that while in a BSN program, you can work weekends, and once that is completed, most employers will pay for an NP program. Even as an NP, in NY, you can expect to make about 80-120K..much safer option imo than Caribbeans.
 
Cost of CRNA School at Missouri State School of Anesthesia.

Cost of Tuition: $68,500
Fees and expenses: $6,880
Grand Total: $75,380

Cost of CRNA School at University of Minnesota Twin Cities

Critical care experience
Minimum of 2 years critical care experience is required prior to first semester in the program.


Cost of Tuition: $78,873.75
*Fees and expenses: $10,897
Grand Total: $89,770.75
 
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CNA-BSN-NP-DNP or CRNA at this point
CRNA can easily make over 150K right after school
The good thing about the nursing route is that while in a BSN program, you can work weekends, and once that is completed, most employers will pay for an NP program. Even as an NP, in NY, you can expect to make about 80-120K..much safer option imo than Caribbeans.
I agree with NP/DNP, because you can work while you work on DNP, but you cannot work while in CRNA school because it's not online and it is FT.

For a person without BSN, it will take at least 8 years if one gets ICU job right after getting BSN and if they get accepted into CRNA school right after First year of ICU experience.
 
I agree with NP/DNP, because you can work while you work on DNP, but you cannot work while in CRNA school because it's not online and it is FT.

For a person without BSN, it will take at least 8 years if one gets ICU job right after getting BSN and if they get accepted into CRNA school right after First year of ICU experience.

Yeah, the work part was more for while in a BSN program then when in an NP/DNP program.
CRNA schools are another beast!
You need a GPA of around 3.5 from a BSN program, atleast 2-3 years of work experience in an ICU setting/etc then maybe you might get accepted for CRNA.

Also, Dr.Phoot, I agree with Gypsy as well, check out the Pharmacy schools...you might have to take a class here n there to fix that gpa but that should be easy to get into..since there are so many programs, from the traditional 4 years to even 3 years!!
 
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Also, there are pharmacy schools that still do grade replacement.
 
Hey @dr.phoot

I know not much can change your mind right now, and while we did rip you a new one about the post, we're really just trying to look out for you bud. Just reading your current posts kind of gives me some red flags. You need some time and space for yourself so you don't feel like you're last in line or that you're behind in the time line. You need to be comfortable going at your own pace and knowing your limits. Knowing when its safe to push them.

I won't reiterate what the previous guys have said, but I want to emphasize that we're just trying to convince you not to dig a bigger hole for yourself. If you take this as motivation, end up in Carib and prove us all wrong with a peds residency, more power to you. I would WANT you to come back and update us and say "Hey f*** you all I made it. Lets get drinks."

But we don't want to see you fail. That's it. We want you to be happy with yourself.

Screw the doctor title. You could be a doctor driving a fancy 100k car, and still be tired, miserable, and defeated as f*** if you've got nothing else in life like meaningful relationships and hobbies to look forward to.

Life is a rat race, but it is YOUR rat race. Make sure it is well lived and that you get the maximum amount of happiness with the most efficient amount of effort.

Hope you're ok bud.
 
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I would also highly advise against going to a Caribbean school. It's a very cut-throat environment there and even after you pass all the Steps, there is no guarantee of matching. Imagine being in over 150K in debt and not passing Step 1 or being over 300K in debt after getting an MD and not matching.

Do something..anything..in the US..but do not go that Carrib route.
That sounds horrible, didn't know that caribbean was so rough.
 
That sounds horrible, didn't know that caribbean was so rough.
Just for an example.

SABA and Ross have 40-50% drop out rate.

Some stories from the web:


This is right on the money!
Sounds like St. George’s University to me.

I am almost one year post-Grenada (doing my clinical rotations in the U.S.) and I still have recurring nightmares of failing out of SGU (with 200,000+ of debt).

I am one of the ‘lucky’ few who actually passed the first two years of school in Grenada, at SGU.

EVERY single one of my friends either:

a. Failed out
(some after repeating terms) (all carry huge amounts of burdensome debt, often financed through the US Federal Loan program)

b. Lost their minds
(two friends went to rehab for alcohol/drug use)
(six friends, probably a whole lot more, started antidepressants within the first year in Grenada)
(many friends had full blown meltdowns/psychotic breaks/personality changes in the first 2 years)

c. Lost their dream

more to come
 
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That sounds horrible, didn't know that caribbean was so rough.
Story from the web:

I want to fill you in on what really goes on behind the scenes at my medical school and maybe you can help inform other students about what happens here before they make a huge mistake. If students slip between the cracks of a US med school, then international med schools in the Caribbean may be the next choice. Some have better residency match rates than others so beware. Mind you, your choice of residency is skewed a bit coming down here, but again there are ways to work your way through internal medicine and find a fellowship of your choice, it is just a tougher and longer road.

My school allows 1000 students a year in on average at the start of each August class. They let in about 700 for the January starting class which are on different schedules and have a smaller lecture hall to accommodate a smaller class. My starting class began with 1100 students, we are down to 650, meaning 59 percent of my class that I started the first day here with are still here to finish off our second year. The class of 700, starting in January, finished with around 450, meaning about 64 percent of their class made it from day 1 to the last day of year 2. US med schools have about a 1-2% attrition rate, we have on average a 40% attrition rate. The problem I have with this is that our school allows students to take on 40K per semester of debt just to dismiss them after 4 or 5 semesters if they fall below an overall GPA below a 75% or having a final grade of below 70% in any one class. If a student does fall below either mark students may or may not be allowed to decel, which means repeating the failed class; however, this looks bad on a residency app and if one fails again they are almost certainly dismissed (rare exceptions).

So, why are so many students failing or dropping out?

1) Students are literally mashed into a lecture hall which seats 900 and there are over 1000 students that must click in for mandatory lecture which is 80% of all lectures. If one falls below 80% attendance they are automatically failed in the course. The stress of clicking in, finding a seat, and waiting in lines on a campus that can’t accommodate this many people is a reason for the students who drop out in the first few weeks, which my school has statistics on and they know this will happen after years of practicing the purposeful overcrowding. This is a business for profit medical school and profit definitely comes before the well being of any student.

2) The mandatory lectures are nearly pathetic. There are usually so many mistakes made by the inexperienced professors, the lecture becomes confusing and muddled. Students are used to having brilliant or at least decent professors. When they see the quality of tutelage and mix that with the stress and workload, the second round of students drop out by midterms.

3) There are not enough dorms on campus to house this many students.Our school placed a random selection of students in a motel 5 miles from campus. There were no laundry services, no ovens, and a shared floor bathroom. Some were disappointed about only having a hotplate and microwave to cook with. This added with the intense work load and adaptation into the pace of medical school is the third round of students to drop out.

After about a month the class will be down to 900 or so. These are the students who started something and are going to finish, even if it means living in a box.

With 900 students how did we get down to 650? They turn the heat up in term 2/3/4 and have a system of questions and statistics for each question they put on their tests so that they fall within the number of students they need to remain to hit their margins. If they need to cut down class size numbers, the heads of the departments are told to use a more difficult test bank by the Dean. Mind you, I’m very close with the head of several departments and we have discussed this for hours, and our disapproval of the methods they use to keep within their budget. We only have 600 positions open for clinical rotations so 50 more students will have to go this term in order to make the numbers right. The school has to have this 40 percent attrition rate to fund the paid positions for our clinical rotations in the US.

4) IMG’s [International Medical Graduates] have to score an avg. of 10 points higher on the step than a US med grad for an equal position in the US residency match. The avg. US step score is 224. We have to get a 230 usually just to get looked at. Another fact they purposely kept from us until our term 4. Why can’t anybody find the true numbers of this school online? They do not post them. If they did they wouldn’t have the demand they do now because if we were given all of the facts, some us would have chosen a field within health care that doesn’t require this amount of chance, debt, stress, and moral compromise.

5) Students who can not self study and teach themselves the material fail.Students at my school must teach themselves what they need to know. We are given a vague outline and need to get through the tests and STEP with high scores. We actively search for resources to help fill in the gaps our school leaves. About 30% of the class has headphones on during lecture listening to an outside source and just click in for the attendance question.

6) Emotional distress/burnout/sickness… This is the area that caught me off guard. I had a medical condition that required hospitalization. The staff is disconnected and said either repeat the term after you seek medical attention or just quit. My advisor told me to “just quit, it isn’t for everybody and it only gets harder.” (thank gawd I didn’t listen to her.) I was in shock and started crying like I never had before. All of that work for someone to tell you to “just quit.” I then went into a depression and felt numb. I luckily met you, Dr. Wible, and found out there were options for these feelings and that I was not alone in this process, med school can be hard…. The others that leave really do just get sick of the abuse and the stress and just zone out. The toughest part about them leaving after a few terms is that the debt has mounted and they have to start repaying their loans 6 months after they quit. It is kind of a vicious circle.

In my opinion I wouldn’t “recommend” my school to any of my friends or family. Im against what they stand for and do not believe in my school. They throw us all against the wall and whoever sticks gets to stay, whoever falls they leave behind. This is for money and I don’t believe it is good for humans to go through this type of abuse while in training to help others. The negative attitude predominates on campus, so I chose to live off campus with success driven students to escape it.

So why come here? TO BECOME A FREAKIN’ DOCTOR, THAT IS WHY!!!!!!!!! I remember studying homeless in the park for the MCAT with a head flashlight on. Now that Im in my last semester it seems all worth it. Every bit of it. There are waterfalls, beaches all over, fruit stands, rum shops, paddle boarding, night clubs, beautiful views at the campus, good people, and lots of fun to keep you sane while you’re putting in what is most likely the toughest two years of life. It is stressful but it is ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT!!!! If you want a 250 STEP 1 score you work for it. If you want to be a surgeon you work for it, if you want to serve the underserved, you guessed it, YOU WORK FOR IT!! I worked my tail off to get to this point and I feel accomplished now.

I feel like I can do the most good from this position. I could be a nurse, PA, NP, EMT, or any other health care provider but I want to make some changes in this world and this puts you in the driver seat to do so. My school is now helping out this term and they want to see the students who made it though their process succeed. They are smiling now and so are most students. It is sad to see friends that didn’t make it, but most of the ones that I know failed because they held onto a negative attitude, expected others to do the work for them, got into substance abuse and night life, or simply just didn’t want it bad enough to sacrifice everything for this dream.

The reason I don’t “recommend” it is because I believe students, friends, family should explore and exhaust every option before coming here. I rushed into it and wanted to get started ASAP and paid the price. But if this were my last option to becoming a physician I would still probably do it out of determination. So it can be done, there WILL be hardships, difficulties, confusion, fear, and stress. But if you work as hard as you can and make it through the process. If students do choose this route, they must prepare an emotional support team, an exercise plan for keeping body and mind healthy, and perhaps a mentor to help get adapted to the school.

Please publish my letter if you feel it will help others. And keep doing everything you do for medical students. Please. We need you.
 
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You know what's kind of funny?

I know SO MANY people that have gone Caribbean or are there as we speak, from actual family, to friends from school, to random people I volunteered with. Atleast 18 people that I can think of right off the bat.

They are all doing great. A few of my cousins are residents already in IM and Gen. surg. I get facebook photos of my friends at SGU like weekly and the place looks super nice and everyone looks happy (could be a fake smile hahah). I'm pretty sure I have scribed for more Caribbean grad ER docs than American ones here in a pretty big CA hospital. lol

I follow all the med student and med school instagram accounts and I've gone down the rabbit hole looking at the tagged peoples' accounts, and then their friends accounts, etc. LMAO
All of the ones who went Caribbean matched last month, some I saw into pretty decent specialties (they had their NRMP accounts screenshotted).

I keep hearing negative things about it. But in the real world, I have NOT seen anything bad about it, nor do I know anyone who got screwed over. I know it's just anecdotal but still.
 
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You know what's kind of funny?

I know SO MANY people that have gone Caribbean or are there as we speak, from actual family, to friends from school, to random people I volunteered with. Atleast 18 people that I can think of right off the bat.

They are all doing great. A few of my cousins are residents already in IM and Gen. surg. I get facebook photos of my friends at SGU like weekly and the place looks super nice and everyone looks happy (could be a fake smile hahah). I'm pretty sure I have scribed for more Caribbean grad ER docs than American ones here in a pretty big CA hospital. lol

I follow all the med student and med school instagram accounts and I've gone down the rabbit hole looking at the tagged peoples' accounts, and then their friends accounts, etc. LMAO
All of the ones who went Caribbean matched last month, some I saw into pretty decent specialties (they had their NRMP accounts screenshotted).

I keep hearing negative things about it. But in the real world, I have NOT seen anything bad about it, nor do I know anyone who got screwed over. I know it's just anecdotal but still.
Good to hear that it works out for people; and it does. But statistics are statistics. If 300 people fail out of 700, we can see these 400 that made it through and say that it works, but usually you wouldn't hear those who failed. Who would want to go publicly and share their fail story?

Would you go to US MD/DO school that has only 50% people make it through the 4 years?

A lot of people would think several times before going. But, even in US that would be easier than in another country.

People do make it through, but it takes a lot of discipline, character, resilience and motivation. If a person didn't have enough motivation to get 3.0 in easy undergrad, why would he get better in hard med school curriculum under severe pressure of Caribbean schools?

That's why ADCOMs often want to see reinvention. And it's not only for ADCOMs but it is for the person applying to know that they can get through. I would worry about my success in med school, especially at Caribbean ones, if my recent grades in undergrad were Cs or below.
 
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From what I have read about personal experiences at Caribbean schools, people that are successfully are often the ones who had about average stats.

Surprisingly, not many people know the existence of DO schools and what they are. So, some people never considered DO as an option. They don't know the truth. They think MD is the only type of doctor there is. So, when they have 3.5-3.7 GPA and cant get in US MD schools, they got to Caribbean. But those are good students; for some reason they just couldn't get in anywhere.

But when we are talking about 1.8-2.5 GPA, that doesn't hint any success.
 
I wonder how many peoples dreams it would be to become doctors if they made 70k/year.
 
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You know what's kind of funny?

I know SO MANY people that have gone Caribbean or are there as we speak, from actual family, to friends from school, to random people I volunteered with. Atleast 18 people that I can think of right off the bat.

They are all doing great. A few of my cousins are residents already in IM and Gen. surg. I get facebook photos of my friends at SGU like weekly and the place looks super nice and everyone looks happy (could be a fake smile hahah). I'm pretty sure I have scribed for more Caribbean grad ER docs than American ones here in a pretty big CA hospital. lol

I follow all the med student and med school instagram accounts and I've gone down the rabbit hole looking at the tagged peoples' accounts, and then their friends accounts, etc. LMAO
All of the ones who went Caribbean matched last month, some I saw into pretty decent specialties (they had their NRMP accounts screenshotted).

I keep hearing negative things about it. But in the real world, I have NOT seen anything bad about it, nor do I know anyone who got screwed over. I know it's just anecdotal but still.

The students who make it out of those Carrib schools will do just fine anywhere. However, there is an uphill battle from day 1 because you have to perform better than the avg US MD/DO students to match, in addition to making those connections. Most of the good schools down there (the big 4) are known to kick students out for all types of reasons, be it academic, financial or personal, so there is not much of a support system.

It is quite possible that the people you know matched and are happy but that's not the total or the overall number of students that started with them. Even the good schools down there has an attrition rate of 50% or so and more than half of students that start do not finish.

3 of my friends also attended these big 4 schools. 1 passed all steps, got his MD degree and still waiting to match, and will he'll be applying again for the 3rd time this year. The 2nd one failed out after the 2nd year, and now has a retail job. The last one also failed out after 2nd year, did BSN here and is now working as a nurse.

I would rather do something here and get my life going than trying for those Carrib schools, where the risk outweighs the benefits. Like Weirdy said above, we are just looking out for dr.phoot, but it is all up to him.
 
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I wonder how many peoples dreams it would be to become doctors if they made 70k/year.

Honestly, like 5% of current students and physicians. 60% of those would already have family wealth so they could care less regardless. lol
 
I wonder how many people would attend the Caribbean if they knew Podiatry schools existed and take much lower mcat scores.
 
The residency data implies makes the European schools and any of the non-big 3-4 Caribbean Schools worse off than the Big -Four (SGU, Ross, AUC and maybe Saba). The data from 2013 (last year that I have country identified) you can see that overall the big four provided just under 50% of all matches and aggregated have just under a 58% match rate, or 5% above the overal US-IMG match rate. That would imply that, on average, all other schools have a match rate at about 48% or 5% below the overall average. Going to medical school for four years and having less than a 50% chance of matching into a residency is gamble. With US MD schools have increased the number of graduates by 30% since 2009 and the DO growing at a faster pace, with residency slots lagging far behind in growth, I can imagine that these numbers are now worse in 2018 then they were 5 years ago

View attachment 232313

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/resultsanddata2013.pdf#page=23
View attachment 232312

Recent post from the pre-MD forum.

As far as I understand IMGs have about 57% match. And if only about 50% make it until that point of applying for residency since starting school it makes it around 30%.


Look at the attachments
 
You know what's kind of funny?

I know SO MANY people that have gone Caribbean or are there as we speak, from actual family, to friends from school, to random people I volunteered with. Atleast 18 people that I can think of right off the bat.

They are all doing great. A few of my cousins are residents already in IM and Gen. surg. I get facebook photos of my friends at SGU like weekly and the place looks super nice and everyone looks happy (could be a fake smile hahah). I'm pretty sure I have scribed for more Caribbean grad ER docs than American ones here in a pretty big CA hospital. lol

I follow all the med student and med school instagram accounts and I've gone down the rabbit hole looking at the tagged peoples' accounts, and then their friends accounts, etc. LMAO
All of the ones who went Caribbean matched last month, some I saw into pretty decent specialties (they had their NRMP accounts screenshotted).

I keep hearing negative things about it. But in the real world, I have NOT seen anything bad about it, nor do I know anyone who got screwed over. I know it's just anecdotal but still.
Numbers are numbers. Everyone you know could have matched, but numbers don’t lie. Taking into account everyone who STARTED the program to who matched, less than 50% match or even place. The schools set up less rotation sites than they accept; much less. So that should tell you their point of view.
 
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I'm so down and desperate that at this point I just want to get into something. Anything really. Vet, dent, opto, something anything to begin this fall. I don't even care. I would even accept an admission on the basis that I work as a janitor for the school on weekends smh.

Added another Carribean school today. This one is actually a long shot for me. My chances aren't that great there.

I also looked into some low barrier of entry law schools. That's how bad things have gotten, guys.

I'm at the barbershop now with a dying phone battery, but I'll come back on later on when I get home and charge up. I want to address some posts specifically.

For those of that have gotten into any sort of professional programs, you have no idea how good you have it! Your lives are pretty much all set for you at this point. And the people already in programs, you're essentially God's gift to mankind! There's everyone else in society and then there are people who attend professional medical schools/programs. Must be nice knowing no matter what, you'll ALWAYS be GUARANTEED 120K+ AND A JOB!. I perosnally know a doc who lost his license here in the states, moved to another country and is practicing there since there' such a need for docs everywhere you go.

And anyone that dares to "suggest" a non medicsl career to me, why not give up your seat and go that route!!??? That's what I thought!

I'l address your individual posts later.
 
I'm so down and desperate that at this point I just want to get into something. Anything really. Vet, dent, opto, something anything to begin this fall. I don't even care. I would even accept an admission on the basis that I work as a janitor for the school on weekends smh.

Added another Carribean school today. This one is actually a long shot for me. My chances aren't that great there.

I also looked into some low barrier of entry law schools. That's how bad things have gotten, guys.

I'm at the barbershop now with a dying phone battery, but I'll come back on later on when I get home and charge up. I want to address some posts specifically.

For those of that have gotten into any sort of professional programs, you have no idea how good you have it! Your lives are pretty much all set for you at this point. And the people already in programs, you're essentially God's gift to mankind! There's everyone else in society and then there are people who attend professional medical schools/programs. Must be nice knowing no matter what, you'll ALWAYS be GUARANTEED 120K+ AND A JOB!. I perosnally know a doc who lost his license here in the states, moved to another country and is practicing there since there' such a need for docs everywhere you go.

And anyone that dares to "suggest" a non medicsl career to me, why not give up your seat and go that route!!??? That's what I thought!

I'l address your individual posts later.
Where you at, dawggg?
 
Please don’t do Caribbean man. The match rate is like 50%.. and that’s for the people that stay in. If you take into account how many matriculate it’s lower. Spend some time reading on this forum about the Caribbean and you’ll find its baaaad news. Honestly, and take it however you want, if I were you I’d get a 2nd bachelors degree in nursing. Spend a few years as an RN (they make decent money and have a decent lifestyle) and then while continuing to work as an RN, I’d get my DNP from an online program. Then when you become a DNP you can work in family medicine or whatever. Salary is easy 6 figures, no debt, and still doing medicine. That’s what I would do if I was in your exact shoes

Here's the problem with what you wrote:

- I listen to your advice and I "spend some time reading this forum", I'll also come to the conclusion that (a) podiatry isn't worth it, (b) pharm is dead, (c) optomet is dead, (d) pathology is dead / dying, (e) dentistry is getting hit by big Corp takeovers, (f) anesthesia is dying, (g) no 4.0. No med sch

Catch my drift? This forum isn't a place you read and mke decisions based off of what you read on here! So therefore can't make any cases against the Carribeans based on what I read here. For every 10 people on here that tells you don't go Carribs, 10 of them have never even gone to school there. Don't believe? EVERY. SINGLE. USER. in this thread saying No has never set foot in a classroom in the island. If im wrong, please you know yourselves, come out and just tell me otherwise. Starting with you @smurfeyD

In essence you're just reciting something you heard from somwhere and have no first hand knowledge about. Like a salesman selling a product he doesn't believe in / doesn't even own himself.

Vs.

In real life, I perosnally work with 2 docs with attended foriegn schools, not even Carribeans -- Africa! And are constantly getting "chased" with well-paying job offers. Sure they're primary care docs but they're sure as hell in really high demand! That cant be said for podiatry though.
 
Here's the problem with what you wrote:

- I listen to your advice and I "spend some time reading this forum", I'll also come to the conclusion that (a) podiatry isn't worth it, (b) pharm is dead, (c) optomet is dead, (d) pathology is dead / dying, (e) dentistry is getting hit by big Corp takeovers, (f) anesthesia is dying, (g) no 4.0. No med sch

Catch my drift? This forum isn't a place you read and mke decisions based off of what you read on here! So therefore can't make any cases against the Carribeans based on what I read here. For every 10 people on here that tells you don't go Carribs, 10 of them have never even gone to school there. Don't believe? EVERY. SINGLE. USER. in this thread saying No has never set foot in a classroom in the island. If im wrong, please you know yourselves, come out and just tell me otherwise. Starting with you @smurfeyD

In essence you're just reciting something you heard from somwhere and have no first hand knowledge about. Like a salesman selling a product he doesn't believe in / doesn't even own himself.

Vs.

In real life, I perosnally work with 2 docs with attended foriegn schools, not even Carribeans -- Africa! And are constantly getting "chased" with well-paying job offers. Sure they're primary care docs but they're sure as hell in really high demand! That cant be said for podiatry though.
Half of current US physicians are foreign grads. Most of the ones I know actually are including the ones in my family. That’s changing quickly.

Carribean really isn’t worth it with 300-400k loans and a FM/IM salary either.

I have a friend at SGU that’s actually doing well and made it into the second year but absolutely hates it. I know another that dropped out first year. Everything is dying if you sit here and search forums enough. My friend in graduating pharm on 1.5 weeks from a newer pharm school and got a job in his super small hometown no problem. I don’t really know any people of any of those professions that are unemployed in person. But that’s just my 2 cents
 
Exactly what I would say.

I would try to get into accelerated BSN or even MSN programs. You usually complete them in 16 months, 4 semesters or so. You can start working right away and get $25-35/hr depending where you live. And while hou work you can start DNP program. You will be able to work and study. Most DNPs start at 100K and up depending on the specialty. That 50-80K difference for Family Physician does not worth the high loans and high risks.

I would suggest that.

Honestly,

I think anyone can still have a chance at DO schools. If you would get at least 3.5-3.7 for 1-2 years post-bacc and 500+ MCAT, you have chances to get into US DO school. Many DO schools reward reinvention.

Good Luck.

I wouldn't advise to make such an important decision while you are still confused. Looks like primary motivations is based on emotions and feelings and not a rational decision. I would not advise going with just your emotions. From your post I get that what made you do that is just that your plans were screwed. It's not the best reason to go to Caribbean school.

I am sorry, but I smell failure down the road. I think so because from your posts I get that you don't really have motivation towards medicine and patients. Your primary reasons are nice suits, cars and money. There is nothing wrong with getting paid well for what you do, but you are going the hard route and you need a lots of motivation and self-drive.

I don't see that.

I can see why some people go and are successful at Caribbean schools. I have read successful stories. These people are highly motivated and well disciplined. There is nothing else they want to do besides medicine and if that means they have to go to Caribbean, they go. Those who go to Caribbean and come out successfully are hard working people with lots of motivation and support.

If your only motivations is income potential, I can see you become exhausted and get dismissed with lots of loans and unfinished Masters degree.

You are willing to spend another 5-8 years to get to 150-200k, while I think there are other paths that will lead you to the similar salaries without 8 years or 400K debt. (I hear Caribbean schools are much more expensive).

Good Luck.

not a bad idea but what you're suggesting about D.O. and nursing are all very costly routes. Remember I'm practically out of a job at this point, so can't even fund my own way through a program. What I have saved will be put towards funding my move to the Carribs (IF I GO). So the post-bacc and D.O. and nursing thing is just way too far away for me to even entertain. it's a post-bacc w/ no guarantee of even an acceptance. whereas at least in the Carribs I know I'll be accepted and started med school right away. I'll be back in the states doing clinicals by the time I'll finish the reinvention / post-bacc that you're talking about. Nursing is cool job though. It's just not for me. I've seen them in various settings: hospitals, clinics, senior homes, community health outreachs and yeah.... no thank you, sir.

It's alright that you smell failure down the road. I can't convince you on that one since your opinion is something you're entitled to. But you know what, I also recall reading one of your posts where you weren't even on the podiatry wagon from the jump. IIRC, you were initially interested in D.O./M.D. just that things didn't pan out, and you're a family man with kid so you factored in the time aspect. I bring that up to say, where was your drive and motivation to keep chasing what you really wanted?

And a DNP making a 100K doesn't even make me flinch. That's 100k BEFORE taxes. I'll rather shoot for the IM/FM/Peds, and make wayyyyy more than that.
 
Yeah, the work part was more for while in a BSN program then when in an NP/DNP program.
CRNA schools are another beast!
You need a GPA of around 3.5 from a BSN program, atleast 2-3 years of work experience in an ICU setting/etc then maybe you might get accepted for CRNA.

Also, Dr.Phoot, I agree with Gypsy as well, check out the Pharmacy schools...you might have to take a class here n there to fix that gpa but that should be easy to get into..since there are so many programs, from the traditional 4 years to even 3 years!!

Hey @dr.phoot

I know not much can change your mind right now, and while we did rip you a new one about the post, we're really just trying to look out for you bud. Just reading your current posts kind of gives me some red flags. You need some time and space for yourself so you don't feel like you're last in line or that you're behind in the time line. You need to be comfortable going at your own pace and knowing your limits. Knowing when its safe to push them.

I won't reiterate what the previous guys have said, but I want to emphasize that we're just trying to convince you not to dig a bigger hole for yourself. If you take this as motivation, end up in Carib and prove us all wrong with a peds residency, more power to you. I would WANT you to come back and update us and say "Hey f*** you all I made it. Lets get drinks."

But we don't want to see you fail. That's it. We want you to be happy with yourself.

Screw the doctor title. You could be a doctor driving a fancy 100k car, and still be tired, miserable, and defeated as f*** if you've got nothing else in life like meaningful relationships and hobbies to look forward to.

Life is a rat race, but it is YOUR rat race. Make sure it is well lived and that you get the maximum amount of happiness with the most efficient amount of effort.

Hope you're ok bud.
You two are pretty much the only ones whose advice I'm even considering / listening to @ this point. I'm in a far better state than how I was feeling a few days back. But the applications have already been started and one of my recc letter writers asked me about the email she received from the school on my behalf. I have some serious thinking to do these next few weeks. I've also decided not to start searching for another job just yet. I want the time off to just clear my head, think straight, and come up with something by June. If I do decide to go Carribs, I'm jumping on the next flight to start this fall so we'll see.
 
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