TouroCOM Master's Program

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Hi everyone, Is there a Facebook page for the MS students at middletown?

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Yea, I noticed that but decided not to use that ID # to register for Harlem in case they are different. Anyone know if it's the same number for both campuses?
I remember calling them and they told me my Touro ID number over the phone. This was weeks before they sent out the enrollment email.
 
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I think there are some posts but I can't see them. admins have yet to approve my join request...
 
For past interviewees, what were some questions you asked your interviewer?
 
Thank you so much for such detailed answer. Did you get into Touro DO or applied somewhere else?
 
Would it be a bad idea to start at SGU in JAN and then come back and start the masters. Just in case, that way I would have one semester down?
 
Got accepted to Middletown on Valentines Day. Still waiting to hear back from Harlem.
Wow- that is a lot. I am the assistant director of the Touro Masters program here in Middletown. I will be happy to answer any questions students may have about the program.
 
I feel like I've just gotten the hang of meal prep. it has saved me so much money and improved my health. the thought of mealplan/microwave/frozen foods.....I'll take my chances renting off campus.
I was curious about that...last time I looked at the website it still said top 35 but it was not included in my letter from Middletown either.
Hi- assistant director of Touro Middletown masters here. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. By the way, the students run the Facebook groups and faculty do not have access.
 
Hi- assistant director of Touro Middletown masters here. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. By the way, the students run the Facebook groups and faculty do not have access.

Hi this is ahearn lewinsky and I have 2 questions:
1) What sort of MCAT score do you look for in students who are applying? I ask because I fear my score is on the low side
2) About how many students get accepted to the middletown campus and the manhatten campus?
Thanks
 
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Hi this is ahearn lewinsky and I have 2 questions:
1) What sort of MCAT score do you look for in students who are applying? I ask because I fear my score is on the low side
2) About how many students get accepted to the middletown campus and the manhatten campus?
Thanks
1. We at Middletown masters (Harlem masters has different charter with New York State so they may have different criteria) can accept MCATs of 488 or higher. We like to see Overall GPAs of 3.0.

2. Middletown masters has taken in, through direct admit, between 22-30 masters students per year out of a class of 60. Every year about 10 students are just under the 3.45 (with passing the comprehensive) and have a incoming 498 MCAT. They apply through AACOMAS and interview on the special day set aside for Masters to interview. About 5 out of those 10 get accepted. ( the rest have multiple acceptances and choose other schools). So about 35-40 students from masters end up in the first year DO class.
 
1. We at Middletown masters (Harlem masters has different charter with New York State so they may have different criteria) can accept MCATs of 488 or higher. We like to see Overall GPAs of 3.0.

2. Middletown masters has taken in, through direct admit, between 22-30 masters students per year out of a class of 60. Every year about 10 students are just under the 3.45 (with passing the comprehensive) and have a incoming 498 MCAT. They apply through AACOMAS and interview on the special day set aside for Masters to interview. About 5 out of those 10 get accepted. ( the rest have multiple acceptances and choose other schools). So about 35-40 students from masters end up in the first year DO class.

To be clear, anyone who does a post bac or SMP takes a chance on making their overall GPA lower. We a Middletown generate quarterly reports on GPAs. If a masters student is doing poorly, I call them in and go over the options. If GPA drops are their concern, a student can withdraw from the program in the first semester (before finals) and only a W ( with no GPA recorded). We do not force any student to withdraw. It is totally up to the student.
 
Hello, how long does it take to receive an official response after being waitlisted?
 
When did you interview and at which campus were you waitlisted if you do not mind me asking?
I interviewed December 10th and was waitlisted on January 8th. I applied to the Master's program in Harlem
 
Hello,

I interviewed mid January and got a response a little bit more than a month after. Waiting for a response was a bit overwhelming. I was genuinely myself during the interview, although I was very nervous even after doing mock interviews. What initially motivated me to go with this program was the love I have for science and medicine. I may be late in saying this but if you are going to interview soon make sure to be able to elaborate on your application, research involvement, essay, and resume. Considering that I am retaking the MCAT to widen my horizon in the future, I wanted to know from the perspective of an attending student, how rigorous this program is. I am aware that one must get a 3.45 GPA and also pass the cumulative exam to officially be part of the D.O. program. However, I'm currently taking classes and working part time AND am mentally preparing myself for this to ultimately reach the second year as an official D.O. student. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

Thank you for your attention....and remember,as long as you are alive, your time will come...BUT you must put in the work.
 
Hello,

I interviewed mid January and got a response a little bit more than a month after. Waiting for a response was a bit overwhelming. I was genuinely myself during the interview, although I was very nervous even after doing mock interviews. What initially motivated me to go with this program was the love I have for science and medicine. I may be late in saying this but if you are going to interview soon make sure to be able to elaborate on your application, research involvement, essay, and resume. Considering that I am retaking the MCAT to widen my horizon in the future, I wanted to know from the perspective of an attending student, how rigorous this program is. I am aware that one must get a 3.45 GPA and also pass the cumulative exam to officially be part of the D.O. program. However, I'm currently taking classes and working part time AND am mentally preparing myself for this to ultimately reach the second year as an official D.O. student. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

Thank you for your attention....and remember,as long as you are alive, your time will come...BUT you must put in the work.
Former master's student here.

This program is very, very rigorous. You mentioned you are working now, but keep in mind that you most likely won't be able to during the program. You are taking almost all of the first year med school classes and you will be taking the same tests as the first years as well. So essentially if you do the master's and make it into the DO program, you are really just repeating the year one of med school once you start the program because the master's program is basically just year one. Also keep in mind that you need to maintain a 3.45 AND pass the comprehensive final. Also remember that you will be graded against your classmates. At least that is how it was when I attended. Maybe things have changed in the last 2 years.

I would for sure research this program as much as you can. With my application the only thing holding me down was my MCAT but I was too stubborn to retake it at the time so I jumped into this program head first without doing my research. Be aware that this program is expensive and is a big risk. But people have done it and made it and have wonderful things to say about it. I just think it should be a last resort. Just my 2 cents.

In any case, best of luck to you!

Edit: Just fixed a grammar error
 
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It’s a difficult program. I would do it but only as a last resort. Do not underestimate the other students—they may be very capable and the averages on exams may be surprisingly high. I would not do this program unless you have gone through two cycles of DO application attempts and not been successful. Even then I would strongly consider another program that doesn’t have such a stringent gpa requirement and pit you against your fellow students.

See below for some other perspectives.

Just a word of caution for incoming students. The hardest part of this program is obtaining a 3.5 GPA. Hopefully you're all aware that masters students are graded against each other. To achieve an A, you'll need to get the average + standard deviation. So if the average is 82 and the SD is 12, you need to get a 94 or above. It all sounds good in theory but it's actually very difficult. This semester, masters averages have been consistently high. You could be getting 88s on every exam and frankly, it won't be good enough.

Another variable that complicates this issue is that Touro is not systems based until second year. Which means you'll have a period of time where you have an exam every monday for a month. Or you'll have an exam on monday..then another exam on Friday..then another exam on the following Monday.

I strongly advise anyone who isn't sure if they can accomplish these things to think about giving the MCAT another try. It's a godawful test but at the very least, it's important to have a backup option. You don't want to find yourself in a position where you spend a year putting in work and getting grades that would be perfectly acceptable everywhere but Touro only to be told that you aren't good enough for medical school.

Sorry to bud in...I am a student at Harlem Campus (Masters). LOVE it!! Harlem is awesome. TouroCOM is cool. Anatomy is fun. The experience is what you make of it. You know why you're there. Work hard! Try your bust to keep up with lectures, but remember that everyone falls behind sometime. There have been plenty of times when I worried that I wasn't going to remember enough by Monday morning (when we take exams) but suddenly Sunday, it really started sticking (and sometimes not until the day of the exam lol). Just don't get stressed out enough that you quit. See it all the way through. The work you did last week matters and every bit of effort you put in adds up. You will learn a lot about yourself and what you can handle, in the program. Work hard and see it all the way through! You are more than capable!

"It's all in divine order" -Dr. Jeff Gardere

I have finished the MS program at TouroCOM-Middletown. I would like to clear up some things and set them straight.

For my class- Total of 66 students by end of the semester, only 24 students have received an invitation to matriculate to the DO program class of 2020. Roughly a 1/3 get in (this is via the legitimate 3.5 GPA way). Special considerations are made to students who have a slightly lower GPA (around 3.45-3.49) as well as students who also applied to TouroCOM Middletown via AACOMAS while they were in the Masters program (and were granted an interview that went well).

For students coming into the masters program; understand this degree does not really help you. You have to work (extremely- I'll let you know why later on) hard to get the 3.5 GPA. You are in it to win it. You must get into the DO program otherwise you wasted your entire year and you are 40K in debt. If your MCAT score is low, chances are you will need to retake it again (even if you make the 3.5 GPA and pass the comprehensive)- (Average MCAT - old scale was about a 27; I don't know anything about the new MCAT; anything less than a 23 requires a retake).

Exams are taken on Examsoft. Either on your laptop or use a PC in the library. You get $80 of print credit each semester. The IT staff is very helpful in case you run into technical difficulties. Clickers are... Clickers. Lab Practical is traditional, you go to various stations with a certain allotted time per station. Look and identify, write it down on your answer sheet and move on.

Grading- Courses are graded based on a curve. For an A you must score 1 standard deviation above the average. Half a standard deviation is roughly an A-. Average is usually a B+ (again, usually). Standard deviations will vary based on overall performance of your class. Harlem and Middletown students do not compete against each other (you are locked to compete within your school, and thus grades and standard deviations are calculated by each campus separately). Let the Hunger Games begin! For certain classes, the averages are extremely high; the 2nd semester for Immunology Exam 1- the average was about 95%. Those are B+ grades. To put this in perspective; in order to get an A (1 std dev above) on the first Immunology Exam, you can only miss 1-2 questions (out of 82 questions or >97.5%). This is due to the "curve" based grading. This is an extreme example, as certain other courses fall in normal and sometimes beneficial range. Don't ever count on the average; each exam you must aim for 100%, always. Majority of the courses have averages within the low to mid 80s. (not 70s as in traditional grading system; so the bell curve is shifted towards to 100 range, aka disadvantage).

Summer Classes- If you have the money to spend/waste, fine. Otherwise there is no point. The class is extremely rushed (an entire semester condensed to slightly more than a month), majority of the material you learn may help, but most likely you will be overwhelmed and start to panic. If you have taken Anatomy or Histology in the past, it may prove better as it becomes a quick refresher; but if you haven't learned the subject at all- good luck. However, these courses do give you a quick glimpse into the curriculum and the way the courses are taught (lecture style via videos), with clicker sessions in class. If you enjoy the curriculum, come stay for the entire year. If not, leave and avoid paying 40K for the entire year.

Dorms are in the same building as the school, managed by Horizon Student Housing. Main person to contact is Cindy Dickman, she is very nice and helpful via email correspondence and in-person. Avoid the meal plan if you can; Trust me.
Living is the dorms is extremely convenient. Classrooms/lecture halls and study rooms in the basement, 1st floor is administration, 2nd floor is faculty, Simulation lab, OMM lab, and Anatomy Lab. Dorms are from floors 3-5. Just walk downstairs to go to class, lab, study, take an exam- no need to commute through the weather, or deal with traffic. However understand, this is an old hospital building (very old) converted into a school and student housing. Things may not work from time to time (sometimes there is no hot water and you have to ice bath your way to cleanliness). Other times the water may be shut off completely to fix a broken main-pipe. When it snows/rains your room may drip. Dorm rooms are renovated, old patient rooms (the voices you hear on a cold winter night are all in your mind). Rent is reasonable and considerably cheaper than apartments nearby (you do not have to pay for TV, internet, electric, or heating; amenities are included along with a desk, bed, chair, tiny wall mounted flatscreen TV, and chest/drawers). However you cannot cook, as there is no range or stove anywhere. You are allowed to have a crock-pot, microwave, and mini fridge in your dorm room. There are communion showers, sink, refrigerator, microwave, and laundry machines (must pay using credit cards; there are laundromats locally if you want to use those instead). If the electricity goes out, the entire building can be ran on generators while the rest of the area is kept in the darkness.

Middletown, NY. Very rural area, about 1.5 to 2 hours from the NYC. If you like the city and urban areas, go/apply to Harlem. If you want things to do besides studying, go to Harlem. If you get into the DO program and would like a rotation spot in the city, go to Harlem.
Just.. go to Harlem.

There is parts of Middletown which reminds you of civilization, such as Starbucks, Chipotle, Walmart, Panera Bread all in the same complex. There is a local mall nearby (Galleria at Crystal Run). About 30 minutes south of Middletown, there is a nice outlet (Woodbury Commons, in case you want to buy stuff to fill the vast empty void in your.. well let's not go there). Chase Bank, BoA are in Middletown. Wells Fargo in Newburgh (15-20 minutes east).

There are nice places to hike and enjoy the outdoors (Ellenville Fault Ice Caves, Blue Mountain Park, etc). Local Gyms (Touro students have free YCMA membership- heated pool, tiny weightroom, basketball court, fitness classes (zumba, yoga)). Anytime Fitness is 24 hours, there is also a Planet Fitness, and a few local crossfit gyms. Gold's Gym in Newburgh and Monroe (near Woodbury Commons).

Comprehensive Exam- The entire year's material minus 3 courses (Medical Ethics, Health and Human Behavior (worst class I've had in my life), and Community Service). You must pass with 70% or higher to get the Masters' Degree and also to matriculate (along with 3.5 GPA). I wouldn't say this was easy, but if you made the 3.5 GPA; this shouldn't be too bad. Expect to prepare your own study guides based on professor's comprehensive exam objectives, or hopefully have friends you trust when spring break comes around to work together. Several students did not pass the comprehensive exam (about 8-9 students), but Touro lowered the passing cutoff to 65%. If you do not pass you will not matriculate into the DO program; however you can still retake the exam to earn your master's degree. There are talks to replace this with a research component, but don't hold your breath.

Bottom Line: You must work hard every day. Assume it is finals week, every week. Maybe give yourself a break every once in awhile (like right after exams). Schedule accordingly. Do not fall behind, once you do, it's over. This program is VERY, Highly stressful. You will see OMS1 students having fun and enjoying medical school while you are stuck in your dorm room (more like prison cell) studying all the intricacies of renal system and memorizing the blood supply, nerves, and muscles of the forearm and hand.

If you don't get accepted into the MS program, consider it a blessing in disguise. Take a MCAT class (much cheaper), or take a few months off to study. Postbacs improve your undergrad GPA, Master courses will not. There isn't much you can do with the Masters degree. If you are accepted, please evaluate your position accordingly before making a decision. This program is an investment/gamble in yourself. Are you willing to take the odds?

Hope this clarifies any questions and concerns.

Based on the old scale, even if you do make the requirements (3.5 GPA and pass the comprehensive), if your MCAT was less than 23 they can hold your spot for you, while you retake the MCAT. I did not do this, this is what I heard from some OMS I/II students from Harlem. I also don't know anything about the new MCAT , so the policy may have changed. They let you know during the interview of the Master's Program whether your MCAT score is too low, and may require a retake. So if nothing was mentioned about a retake and you were offered an acceptance into the program then you should be good (just get that 3.5 GPA and pass the comprehensive).



I am not trying to discourage you from the program, but I want you to understand what you are getting into. Ultimately you have the facts that I didn't have when I decided to attend the Master's Program a year ago.

Medical school applications are a struggle, I understand. I applied during the previous cycle and was waitlisted at 5 DO schools. For me, I felt like I couldn't just sit around and I wasn't sure how to improve my application. I had too many units in undergrad to boost my low GPA. My MCAT was already in the early 30s. So I decided to do the Master's Program and give it a shot. My reasoning is if I couldn't get a 3.5 GPA then maybe I shouldn't be a doctor.

Previous masters student here. I agree 100% with what is written above and I really urge you to think twice before committing to this program. I was in your position last year - feeling hopeless and this program truly sparked my interest and gave me hope in gaining a medical school acceptance. However, no one was there to warn me (or anyone in my class) about the reality of this program.

Chances are, you are a student who has either a low GPA, low MCAT, or both - and that was certainly the case for me. But think about something logically...if you are not able to pull off those grades in undergrad, how will you be able to do well in these exams? These are medical school level classes, and as mentioned above, some classes need the >95% on exams to get the A. Will you be able to pull that off? You can sit and say "I will work harder than I did in undergrad" until you're blue in the face but the truth is, you are putting yourself at risk for a lot of debt, and worst of all: you will leave this school with a transcript that shows that you performed poorly, which will show other med schools that you cannot handle these classes.

Personally, I was offered an acceptance but I will be attending another DO school in the fall. There are tons of things that I really disliked about the MT campus, but the worst of all is that administration breaks so many ethical and moral principles and everyone seems to be aware of it. You can feel free to ask any 1st/2nd year and I'm sure they will agree on this. I would NEVER want to learn how to become a good doctor from a school that is consistently treats their students so unfairly. I won't get into all of it, but I will give you an example just so you don't think I am someone who is just whining:

One exam we took had a number of the same questions repeated due to the fault of the professor or the exam program (who knows). Basically, the same question showed up twice on an exam, and there were a few of these. Rather than dropping the extra questions, the faculty kept all the questions on that exam. If you got both those questions right, then congrats - you got double credit on your test. However, if you got both those questions wrong, you had double points taken off of your exam. This seems minor, but this meant that if you got 2 of those repeated questions wrong, you got 4 questions wrong. 3 questions = 6 questions, etc. This is a HUGE deal when it comes to Masters students who are fighting for every point. But the admin seemed to think this was the "fairest" way to do it, despite the pleas of tons of Masters students and first years.

Bottom line: if you can re-take your MCAT, you will be much better off. If you do not get accepted to this program, consider yourself lucky.

***Also, keep in mind that the Middletown DO program is not yet accredited - they operate under Harlem's accreditation. To my knowledge, they will be accredited if the current 2nd year students do well on the COMLEX, but just something to keep in the back of your mind that this is also another risk you are taking as there is no guarantee that they will be accredited after this year.
 
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Hello,

I interviewed mid January and got a response a little bit more than a month after. Waiting for a response was a bit overwhelming. I was genuinely myself during the interview, although I was very nervous even after doing mock interviews. What initially motivated me to go with this program was the love I have for science and medicine. I may be late in saying this but if you are going to interview soon make sure to be able to elaborate on your application, research involvement, essay, and resume. Considering that I am retaking the MCAT to widen my horizon in the future, I wanted to know from the perspective of an attending student, how rigorous this program is. I am aware that one must get a 3.45 GPA and also pass the cumulative exam to officially be part of the D.O. program. However, I'm currently taking classes and working part time AND am mentally preparing myself for this to ultimately reach the second year as an official D.O. student. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

Thank you for your attention....and remember,as long as you are alive, your time will come...BUT you must put in the work.


During my interview, I had the chance to talk to previous Masters students, now 1st years and 2nd years. It is absolutely doable, half the class moves on to OMS 1. Also, not everyone moving on even attains a 3.45, some are just below. Others get accepted and attend other MedSchools. I haven’t heard a horror story yet of anyone being screwed over by this program. If you’re really serious, you’ll succeed. Think about it...It’s MedSchool, of course it’s not easy, and you’ll have to make a lot of sacrifices. If your failures in undergrad were due to lack of maturity and you’ve grown now, definitely go for the program. Just like any other program, failure is possible, but it’s up to you. Also, I don’t understand all the fear about this program when while already in Med School, you have to Pass the Comlex and the Steps anyway. Isn’t there also a risk to attending Med School as a whole, and aren’t you at a greater risk for attending Med School and having even more debt on your hands if you don’t pass the steps or if you fail out (which happens)? That’s why the process is so tedious. It’s one way in or the other, each has its own risks. This program has gotten students their Medical Degree. Proven. What more could you ask for?
 
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You haven’t heard the horror stories because they don’t post here and they had already failed out when you interviewed. A middling or poor performance in this program coupled with a poor MCAT and undergrad gpa would be very hard to get out from under. Not to mention the 25-50k of debt.

One frustration for me with this program was working as hard or harder than the DO students and barely riding that 3.5 line.

What more could you ask for? A program that is less cut throat and does not set you up to compete against your peers. See many of the other biological science/smp programs.
 
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During my interview, I had the chance to talk to previous Masters students, now 1st years and 2nd years. It is absolutely doable, half the class moves on to OMS 1. Also, not everyone moving on even attains a 3.45, some are just below. Others get accepted and attend other MedSchools. I haven’t heard a horror story yet of anyone being screwed over by this program. If you’re really serious, you’ll succeed. Think about it...It’s MedSchool, of course it’s not easy, and you’ll have to make a lot of sacrifices. If your failures in undergrad were due to lack of maturity and you’ve grown now, definitely go for the program. Just like any other program, failure is possible, but it’s up to you. Also, I don’t understand all the fear about this program when while already in Med School, you have to Pass the Comlex and the Steps anyway. Isn’t there also a risk to attending Med School as a whole, and aren’t you at a greater risk for attending Med School and having even more debt on your hands if you don’t pass the steps or if you fail out (which happens)? That’s why the process is so tedious. It’s one way in or the other, each has its own risks. This program has gotten students their Medical Degree. Proven. What more could you ask for?
-It is absolutely doable- Yes, it is doable. Nobody said it was not. But not as easy as it sounds, not by a long shot. But also keep in mind that if you talk about someone who has done the program and made it into the DO class, do you really expect them to say it is not doable? But of course, the other side is true as well.

-I haven’t heard a horror story yet of anyone being screwed over by this program.- I know personally several people that would beg to differ. But as I said, some will sing the program's praises, others will not. I have several friends that were offered the acceptance into the program but turned it down.

-Just like any other program, failure is possible, but it’s up to you.- True, but why unnecessarily put yourself in this situation if you have other options? As someone that has done the program, my suggestion is to exhaust all other options first.

-Isn’t there also a risk to attending Med School as a whole, and aren’t you at a greater risk for attending Med School and having even more debt on your hands if you don’t pass the steps or if you fail out (which happens)?- There is a huge difference between passing/failing, and passing with almost all A's.

-This program has gotten students their Medical Degree. Proven.- Yes. So do Caribbean medical schools. Proven.


My bottom line is, as BobbyKoch has said, go through a couple cycles first. But that's just me.
 
You haven’t heard the horror stories because they don’t post here and they had already failed out when you interviewed. A middling or poor performance in this program coupled with a poor MCAT and undergrad gpa would be very hard to get out from under. Not to mention the 25-50k of debt.

One frustration for me with this program was working as hard or harder than the DO students and barely riding that 3.5 line.

What more could you ask for? A program that is less cut throat and does not set you up to compete against your peers. See many of the other biological science/smp programs.
This.
 
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Many linkage programs are cut throat..or just as difficult and Competitive to get into as Med School. Getting into Med School *is* cutthroat, with many acceptance rates between 1-3%, and it’s getting more and more competitive each cycle. My point is, there is no easy way to get into Medical School. So when you’ve tried the regular route, and failed, take the other opportunities presented to you; especially when it doesn’t involve going to the carribeans. Nothing is gonna be handed to us, no matter which route we take we’re gonna have to sacrifice and take risks, it might be with our time, it might be with our money. Either way, it’s still all a risk to get into Med School
 
-It is absolutely doable- Yes, it is doable. Nobody said it was not. But not as easy as it sounds, not by a long shot. But also keep in mind that if you talk about someone who has done the program and made it into the DO class, do you really expect them to say it is not doable? But of course, the other side is true as well.

-I haven’t heard a horror story yet of anyone being screwed over by this program.- I know personally several people that would beg to differ. But as I said, some will sing the program's praises, others will not. I have several friends that were offered the acceptance into the program but turned it down.

-Just like any other program, failure is possible, but it’s up to you.- True, but why unnecessarily put yourself in this situation if you have other options? As someone that has done the program, my suggestion is to exhaust all other options first.

-Isn’t there also a risk to attending Med School as a whole, and aren’t you at a greater risk for attending Med School and having even more debt on your hands if you don’t pass the steps or if you fail out (which happens)?- There is a huge difference between passing/failing, and passing with almost all A's.

-This program has gotten students their Medical Degree. Proven.- Yes. So do Caribbean medical schools. Proven.


My bottom line is, as BobbyKoch has said, go through a couple cycles first. But that's just me.

AGREEEEED. Dr. Basketball and I were in the same class, so I second everything they said. Anyone that is reading this and strongly considering this program, reach out to people that have actually attended. Not just over SDN but you could also find us on facebook or other social media. And don't restrict yourself to people that are previous MS students and have gotten into the program. You can learn a lot from the failure of others as well. So reach out to people that haven't gotten in and had to move on to other options.

This program is one opportunity. If you have done thorough research on other options and have gone through several application cycles, this is something to consider. CONSIDER. Only commit, if you truly can. It is expensive and it taxing. You are up against everyone in your class, you learn at a fast pace, you do have to shell out 20-50k, and although the gpa cutoff is obtainable, it is an incredibly difficult road.

Some people will say that this program is worth it, and some won't. I can tell you from personal experience that it was both. I did not find another more suitable option so I applied and moved to NY. I had to make many sacrifices and had a years worth of difficult experiences. So it did not feel worth it in that sense. Plus still in debt from that. And in the end, I did not make the cutoff. Again, not worth it. But I reapplied to medical schools elsewhere, did more work on my CV and MCAT and became a medical student. Worth it.

For me, it's a mix of worth it and not. Just know that. You will hear both sides and it will be hard to decide whether to risk it and commit or not. But consider ALL your options. Make a plan that works best for YOU and weigh your pros and cons. And most importantly, get the feedback, both good and bad from people that actually attended. Get their horror stories and get their content as hell stories.
 
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During my interview, I had the chance to talk to previous Masters students, now 1st years and 2nd years. It is absolutely doable, half the class moves on to OMS 1. Also, not everyone moving on even attains a 3.45, some are just below. Others get accepted and attend other MedSchools. I haven’t heard a horror story yet of anyone being screwed over by this program. If you’re really serious, you’ll succeed. Think about it...It’s MedSchool, of course it’s not easy, and you’ll have to make a lot of sacrifices. If your failures in undergrad were due to lack of maturity and you’ve grown now, definitely go for the program. Just like any other program, failure is possible, but it’s up to you. Also, I don’t understand all the fear about this program when while already in Med School, you have to Pass the Comlex and the Steps anyway. Isn’t there also a risk to attending Med School as a whole, and aren’t you at a greater risk for attending Med School and having even more debt on your hands if you don’t pass the steps or if you fail out (which happens)? That’s why the process is so tedious. It’s one way in or the other, each has its own risks. This program has gotten students their Medical Degree. Proven. What more could you ask for?

Also couldn't resist replying to this just for the benefit of those reading that are considering applying.... do not take advice from someone that is an applicant. This person does not know a thing about the program other than what they looked up online or what they heard from others. People that are applying.... please reach out to those of us that have ATTENDED. We have a completely different perspective than from someone who is just looking in from the outside.

To say that "if you're really serious, you'll succeed" is an insult. Many of us were insanely serious. It took studying every minute that you were in that one building, hours of lectures in person and on your own, spending your nights in the lab and sacrificing going home on the weekends. Of course we were serious. But not everyone succeeded in terms of getting in through the cutoff gpa path. Yes it is medical school and its not easy and you have to make sacrifices. But this program is an exceptionally difficult sacrifice.

You "don't understand the fear about this program" because you have not attended this program. You actually have no idea what it takes. You just know that there is a cutoff and some people made it while some didn't. I'll advise you to do your research too along with those reading that are considering applying.
 
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Also couldn't resist replying to this just for the benefit of those reading that are considering applying.... do not take advice from someone that is an applicant. This person does not know a thing about the program other than what they looked up online or what they heard from others. People that are applying.... please reach out to those of us that have ATTENDED. We have a completely different perspective than from someone who is just looking in from the outside.

To say that "if you're really serious, you'll succeed" is an insult. Many of us were insanely serious. It took studying every minute that you were in that one building, hours of lectures in person and on your own, spending your nights in the lab and sacrificing going home on the weekends. Of course we were serious. But not everyone succeeded in terms of getting in through the cutoff gpa path. Yes it is medical school and its not easy and you have to make sacrifices. But this program is an exceptionally difficult sacrifice.

You "don't understand the fear about this program" because you have not attended this program. You actually have no idea what it takes. You just know that there is a cutoff and some people made it while some didn't. I'll advise you to do your research too along with those reading that are considering applying.
^ This x1000.

Well said.
 
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I did the MS program last year, so feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions.

Ultimately, I DO feel the program is worth it, but know what you are getting yourself in to. If you do not make it into the DO program, you will have A LOT of damage control to address. About half of our class is in this boat, some of which were good students but took them a while to get used to the tests, so something to think about. What I really think will make you a good student is simply having an UNDYING devotion to the notes, live, eat, and breathe the classroom notes day in and day out. I can't stress how much this will make an impact on your grade.
 
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I did the MS program last year, so feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions.

Ultimately, I DO feel the program is worth it, but know what you are getting yourself in to. If you do not make it into the DO program, you will have A LOT of damage control to address. About half of our class is in this boat, some of which were good students but took them a while to get used to the tests, so something to think about. What I really think will make you a good student is simply having an UNDYING devotion to the notes, live, eat, and breathe the classroom notes day in and day out. I can't stress how much this will make an impact on your grade.
Easier said than done my friend.

If someone is dead set on an SMP, please reconsider. If you are still dead set on one, there are much better ones out there. But to each his own I suppose.

Either way, congratulations on your success! While I was in the program I appreciated the positive words of the previous master´s students so I am sure you will be a big support to the incoming class.

Edit: Love the quote btw.
 
Easier said than done my friend.

If someone is dead set on an SMP, please reconsider. If you are still dead set on one, there are much better ones out there. But to each his own I suppose.

Either way, congratulations on your success! While I was in the program I appreciated the positive words of the previous master´s students so I am sure you will be a big support to the incoming class.

Edit: Love the quote btw.

I actually don't attend Touro anymore lol, but I agree in that the camaraderie amongst ex and current MS students is really strong. I guess I would just say if you're someone with a low GPA and/or MCAT and you're looking at yourself and your application and you don't know where to go next, then this program might be for you. It is also one of the FEW programs out there with guaranteed admissions into their medical school. I know, easier said then done, but these kinds of programs are slowly dissappearing. Med school admissions is fiercely competitive and it's getting more competitive by the year. I just found out that one of my classmates spent almost a decade trying to get into medical school and I'm sure there are other stories like that in my class. This is unfortunately the nature of the beast..

I will preface by saying that making silly mistakes on tests is not tolerated and will really bite you in the end. In med school itself, that type of pressure isn't as extreme. And I do think in the grand scheme of things, having that precision when taking tests did burn me out prior to even entering medical school.....so just something to think about.
 
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I actually don't attend Touro anymore lol, but I agree in that the camaraderie amongst ex and current MS students is really strong. I guess I would just say if you're someone with a low GPA and/or MCAT and you're looking at yourself and your application and you don't know where to go next, then this program might be for you. It is also one of the FEW programs out there with guaranteed admissions into their medical school. I know, easier said then done, but these kinds of programs are slowly dissappearing. Med school admissions is fiercely competitive and it's getting more competitive by the year. I just found out that one of my classmates spent almost a decade trying to get into medical school and I'm sure there are other stories like that in my class. This is unfortunately the nature of the beast..

I will preface by saying that making silly mistakes on tests is not tolerated and will really bite you in the end. In med school itself, that type of pressure isn't as extreme. And I do think in the grand scheme of things, having that precision when taking tests did burn me out prior to even entering medical school.....so just something to think about.

Your statements are one of the most well rounded and reasonable I’ve read on this thread so far.

I just think that the fact that 50% of the class is admitted, and Touro admits 35 masters students into their first year DO class each year, regardless of their small class size of 60-80 is amazing. Correct me if I’m wrong. And counting both campuses, this means that Touro NY admits 70 masters students into their total class of 120-160 DO students each year. Am I right or wrong?

This shows that the program is fair on some levels, yeah, maybe the masters students have to work harder than the first year DO students, but that’s just a price you’ll have to pay for coming in with low GPA/MCAT scores. You have to prove yourself, which means, changing habits that caused the low scores in the first place.

If only about 10 percent of masters students matriculated, hell even 20-30% then I would be a little skeptical about the program because that would show an outrageous risk. But this program literally matriculates half of their masters students. I just don’t understand all the hate.

Other programs like these are HIGHLY competitive to get into, and the SMP students usually only make up 1-5% of their first years. The journey to Medschool in itself is becoming a steeper and more competitive hill to climb each year.

I just don’t get the constant need to discourage people from a program that can reasonably get them into medschool, especially if they’ve tried the traditional route, and they don’t want to go to the Caribbean. Some people are literally out here wasting years and more money than you think trying to get into medschool. Some of us aren’t getting any younger. Also, who’s to predict the next possible change that could be made to the MCATs? I personally don’t want to be here for that
 
Your statements are one of the most well rounded and reasonable I’ve read on this thread so far.

I just think that the fact that 50% of the class is admitted, and Touro admits 35 masters students into their first year DO class each year, regardless of their small class size of 60-80 is amazing. Correct me if I’m wrong. And counting both campuses, this means that Touro NY admits 70 masters students into their total class of 120-160 DO students each year. Am I right or wrong?

This shows that the program is fair on some levels, yeah, maybe the masters students have to work harder than the first year DO students, but that’s just a price you’ll have to pay for coming in with low GPA/MCAT scores. You have to prove yourself, which means, changing habits that caused the low scores in the first place.

If only about 10 percent of masters students matriculated, hell even 20-30% then I would be a little skeptical about the program because that would show an outrageous risk. But this program literally matriculates half of their masters students. I just don’t understand all the hate.

Other programs like these are HIGHLY competitive to get into, and the SMP students usually only make up 1-5% of their first years. The journey to Medschool in itself is becoming a steeper and more competitive hill to climb each year.

I just don’t get the constant need to discourage people from a program that can reasonably get them into medschool, especially if they’ve tried the traditional route, and they don’t want to go to the Caribbean. Some people are literally out here wasting years and more money than you think trying to get into medschool. Some of us aren’t getting any younger. Also, who’s to predict the next possible change that could be made to the MCATs? I personally don’t want to be here for that
The intent is to share honest opinions and personal experiences, not discourage. Well, at least that's my intent.

It's up to you to weigh your own options. You can take all opinions into consideration, or only the ones that you like or deem as "well rounded/reasonable". The choice is yours. At the end of the day, you are the one making the decision.

I just wish I would have researched alternatives and maybe it will prompt someone reading this to do the same. Hell, even my interviewer for this program said and I quote, "why don't you just retake the MCAT and reapply instead?" BUT, if you feel like this is the program for you, go for it! I sincerely wish you the very best. There is no denying that there are success stories and if that is what you want to focus on then I wish you luck in your future endeavors. Some people are a great fit for Touro! If you update this thread a year from now saying you made it in the DO program, I will be nothing but happy for you.
 
The intent is to share honest opinions and personal experiences, not discourage. Well, at least that's my intent.

It's up to you to weigh your own options. You can take all opinions into consideration, or only the ones that you like or deem as "well rounded/reasonable". The choice is yours. At the end of the day, you are the one making the decision.

I just wish I would have researched alternatives and maybe it will prompt someone reading this to do the same. Hell, even my interviewer for this program said and I quote, "why don't you just retake the MCAT and reapply instead?" BUT, if you feel like this is the program for you, go for it! I sincerely wish you the very best. There is no denying that there are success stories and if that is what you want to focus on then I wish you luck in your future endeavors. Some people are a great fit for Touro! If you update this thread a year from now saying you made it in the DO program, I will be nothing but happy for you.

I honestly appreciate your contributions as to what to be aware of. It’s very helpful. I just don’t think it’s fair to keep discouraging and scaring people out of participating in a program that can help them get into Medschool, risk and all.

Not to mention, your “advice” also has its own risks. You risk time (2-3 years if we’re being realistic), which is actually more valuable in the long run than money. You risk not doing well on the MCAT, again (after spending time and money). You risk not getting a competitive GPA on your “DIY” PostBacc (After spending more time and money). Or does everyone get a 3.5 gpa and above on their post baccs? Let me also add, that MedSchool admissions is a holistic process, and much more than just test scores and gpa, if you don’t have clinical or volunteer experience, you may want to get some. You may also have to invest in finding help with putting together your personal statement and other essays, and invest in interview prep as well.

If you have no parental help, you’re remaining poor for a longer period of time. How Ideal is a Post Bacc and working? If you’re not doing a Post Bacc and just taking a year to retake the MCAT, be aware that this means you will be waiting at least two years to attend Medschool. In these two years, you will have to start making payments on student loans, or go for the income based repayment plan and acquire a heap of interest on top of your loans.

Stop making it seem like there are avenues to Medschool that pose no risk. People risk im different ways and still lose, it’s the nature of the field we all want to venture into.
 
I honestly appreciate your contributions as to what to be aware of. It’s very helpful. I just don’t think it’s fair to keep discouraging and scaring people out of participating in a program that can help them get into Medschool, risk and all.

Not to mention, your “advice” also has its own risks. You risk time (2-3 years if we’re being realistic), which is actually more valuable in the long run than money. You risk not doing well on the MCAT, again (after spending time and money). You risk not getting a competitive GPA on your “DIY” PostBacc (After spending more time and money). Or does everyone get a 3.5 gpa and above on their post baccs? Let me also add, that MedSchool admissions is a holistic process, and much more than just test scores and gpa, if you don’t have clinical or volunteer experience, you may want to get some. You may also have to invest in finding help with putting together your personal statement and other essays, and invest in interview prep as well.

If you have no parental help, you’re remaining poor for a longer period of time. How Ideal is a Post Bacc and working? If you’re not doing a Post Bacc and just taking a year to retake the MCAT, be aware that this means you will be waiting at least two years to attend Medschool. In these two years, you will have to start making payments on student loans, or go for the income based repayment plan and acquire a heap of interest on top of your loans.

Stop making it seem like there are avenues to Medschool that pose no risk. People risk im different ways and still lose, it’s the nature of the field we all want to venture into.
Not everyone is in the same position as you. Some people DO have other options and should explore them. I had other options and did not explore them and maybe there are others in that same position. Your one size fits all approach is just reckless in my opinion. You don't know what this program entails because you have not gone through it, and has others have mentioned, just having a "work your butt off attitude" will not cut it. There are plenty that did and did not make it. My "advice" if that's what you want to call it is based on experience. Just saying.

And by the way. You mentioned that 35 make it into the DO class. They told me a number less than 30 for the previous year when I asked during my interview. But that was a couple years ago and maybe it is a set 35 now. Also, are you taking into account the attrition rate? We started with almost 80 and finished in the low 60s. Again, just saying.

I never said that other avenues pose no risk. That's ridiculous. If someone has chosen to go for medicine, that comes with a large amount of risk. SMP or no SMP. But grouping everything as one big risk and labeling it part of "the journey to medicine" is just outrageous. It is common knowledge that SMPs are high risk/high reward type deals. You can't put that in the same category as someone coming right out of undergrad and applying. There are different levels of risk. But if you have other options and can minimize it then why not go for that? Again, some people(possibly you) have no other options. Maybe someone has a low GPA and a low MCAT and has gone through a couples cycles of applying and has taken the MCAT multiple times. In that case, I would say yes, maybe an SMP would be a good choice. But not everyone is in that position.

I thought I was pretty clear, but I will say this again. In my honest opinion as someone who has actually gone through this program, research other options first. You mention money. I don't care how much money you say you have spent, it is no where near the 50 to 60 grand you will spend on this program.

There are risks and benefits. People have commented on the risks, others on the benefits. If you don't like it when people comment on the risks then just ignore the comments. When I went for this program I ignored the comments about the risks as well.
 
Not everyone is in the same position as you. Some people DO have other options and should explore them. I had other options and did not explore them and maybe there are others in that same position. Your one size fits all approach is just reckless in my opinion. You don't know what this program entails because you have not gone through it, and has others have mentioned, just having a "work your butt off attitude" will not cut it. There are plenty that did and did not make it. My "advice" if that's what you want to call it is based on experience. Just saying.

And by the way. You mentioned that 35 make it into the DO class. They told me a number less than 30 for the previous year when I asked during my interview. But that was a couple years ago and maybe it is a set 35 now. Also, are you taking into account the attrition rate? We started with almost 80 and finished in the low 60s. Again, just saying.

I never said that other avenues pose no risk. That's ridiculous. If someone has chosen to go for medicine, that comes with a large amount of risk. SMP or no SMP. But grouping everything as one big risk and labeling it part of "the journey to medicine" is just outrageous. It is common knowledge that SMPs are high risk/high reward type deals. You can't put that in the same category as someone coming right out of undergrad and applying. There are different levels of risk. But if you have other options and can minimize it then why not go for that? Again, some people(possibly you) have no other options. Maybe someone has a low GPA and a low MCAT and has gone through a couples cycles of applying and has taken the MCAT multiple times. In that case, I would say yes, maybe an SMP would be a good choice. But not everyone is in that position.

I thought I was pretty clear, but I will say this again. In my honest opinion as someone who has actually gone through this program, research other options first. You mention money. I don't care how much money you say you have spent, it is no where near the 50 to 60 grand you will spend on this program.

There are risks and benefits. People have commented on the risks, others on the benefits. If you don't like it when people comment on the risks then just ignore the comments. When I went for this program I ignored the comments about the risks as well.


I guess we can agree to disagree. Sharing your experience is very helpful, don’t get me wrong. I agree, knowing what you’re about venture into with this program is useful for deciding whether or not this is what you want to do. Or a risk you want to take. I’ve been out of school for 2 years and I’m definitely more mature and have done a lot of growing since my Undergraduate years. So personally, I don’t mind participating in a program that would require all 24 hours of my day, everyday studying, for one year.


But why hang around constantly throwing into everyone’s face how you don’t recommend this program. How it’s a last resort, and how we should stay away. Over and over again. Fine, it’s a difficult program, it requires a lot of sacrifice, we might not make it into the DO program, we might waste a year and 50k. If you struggled in undergrad, you’ll probably struggle with this program. we get it.

But possible failure shouldn’t be a reason to write off the program. Failure is everywhere.


My point is, that people also waste time and money with the other options as well. There are no low risk avenues to MedSchool these days. If they decide to retake the MCATs and do a DIY Post Bacc, that’s ok. I also don’t believe this program is for everyone, But why actively try to discourage people from a program, that’s literally just a program and a shot at Medschool.

If you don’t make it in, it’s not the end of the world, but at least you tried. Yeah, it might be emotionally draining to fail, but getting into Medschool for many people involves failing, AND losing money...over and over again. For some, it’s way more than 50 k and way more than 1 year.
 
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I guess we can agree to disagree. Sharing your experience is very helpful, don’t get me wrong. I agree, knowing what you’re about venture into with this program is useful for deciding whether or not this is what you want to do. Or a risk you want to take.

But why hang around constantly throwing into everyone’s face how you don’t recommend this program. How it’s a last resort, and how we should stay away. Over and over again. Fine, it’s a difficult program, it requires a lot of sacrifice, we might not make it into the DO program, we might waste a year and 50k. If you struggled in undergrad, you’ll probably struggle with this program. we get it.

My point is, that people also waste time and money with the other options as well. There are no low risk avenues to MedSchool these days. If they decide to retake the MCATs and do a DIY Post Bacc, that’s ok. I also don’t believe this program is for everyone, But why actively try to discourage people from a program, that’s literally just a program and a shot at Medschool.

If you don’t make it in, it’s not the end of the world, but at least you tried. Yeah, it might be emotionally draining to fail, but getting into Medschool for many people involves failing, AND losing money...over and over again. For some, it’s way more than 50 k and way more than 1 year.
I understand where you are coming from. I just barley said that it is right for some, not for others. I think it is a mistake for some people, not all people. In a way, I think in a lot of ways we agree on some of the same principles.

But by the same token, we get your feelings on how wonderful you think the program is, so why linger just to sing it´s praises? Why actively try to encourage it based on how you feel and not actual experience?

Either way, I wish you or anyone the very best. If after significant research anyone feels this program is the right choice, best of luck! I am rooting for you!
 
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I understand where you are coming from. I just barley said that it is right for some, not for others. I think it is a mistake for some people, not all people. In a way, I think in a lot of ways we agree on some of the same principles.

But by the same token, we get your feelings on how wonderful you think the program is, so why linger just to sing it´s praises? Why actively try to encourage it based on how you feel and not actual experience?

Either way, I wish you or anyone the very best. If after significant research anyone feels this program is the right choice, best of luck! I am rooting for you!

I guess I’m an optimist in that sense! And thank you!
 
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Hi Everyone!

I was wondering if someone could explain the grading system for the MS program at Touro. Thank you!
 
Does anyone have any idea what schedules are like? I think I may have heard that classes were only 3 times a week, from 8 am-4pm. Could someone confirm this? Also, if this is the case, what days of the week are classes held?
 
Hi Everyone!

I was wondering if someone could explain the grading system for the MS program at Touro. Thank you!

Here's a breakdown of how the grading is done for the master's class - which is different than for the DO's, although you will be taking the same exams. The master's class is graded against each other.

After an exam, the class average and standard deviation are calculated.

Standard deviations of:

>+1 = A
+.5-1 = A-
0-+.5 = B+
-1-0 = B
-1.5-1 = B-
 
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Does anyone have any idea what schedules are like? I think I may have heard that classes were only 3 times a week, from 8 am-4pm. Could someone confirm this? Also, if this is the case, what days of the week are classes held?

Class is 3 days a week - the school shifted to this after the fall semester, so I'm not sure how the courses will be spaced for this coming fall. However, for the spring semester our schedule was as follows:

Monday: exam day
Tuesday: Anatomy/neuro lecture and lab for a total of 3 hours, times are different depending on whether you are in the morning or afternoon group
Wednesday:
9: community service
10: genetics
11: physiology
12: lunch
1-3: health and human behavior
3-5: immuno/micro
Thursday: same as Tuesday
 
Here's a breakdown of how the grading is done for the master's class - which is different than for the DO's, although you will be taking the same exams. The master's class is graded against each other.

After an exam, the class average and standard deviation are calculated.

Standard deviations of:

>+1 = A
+.5-1 = A-
0-+.5 = B+
-1-0 = B
-1.5-1 = B-
Hello,
This is very helpful. So, what would be a class average?
 
Class is 3 days a week - the school shifted to this after the fall semester, so I'm not sure how the courses will be spaced for this coming fall. However, for the spring semester our schedule was as follows:

Monday: exam day
Tuesday: Anatomy/neuro lecture and lab for a total of 3 hours, times are different depending on whether you are in the morning or afternoon group
Wednesday:
9: community service
10: genetics
11: physiology
12: lunch
1-3: health and human behavior
3-5: immuno/micro
Thursday: same as Tuesday


Thanks a lot! So there’s only 1 eight hour day in the week? Also, How long is exam day generally?
 
Hello,
This is very helpful. So, what would be a class average?

Exam averages have ranged from 69-89, depending on the class, specific material, etc. Standard deviations, I believe, have been from 10-15. There have been exams where an A could be as low as an 84, others where an A would be a 96.

Also, there is no averaging your grade up. So, for final grades the border of an A/A- may be 87.8605, and if you have an 87.8604 you will have an A-.
 
Thanks a lot! So there’s only 1 eight hour day in the week? Also, How long is exam day generally?

Almost all exams are mondays, some exceptions depending on holidays, end of semester, etc. which may mean exams on another day. All exams are 2 hours and start at either 9 or 10.
 
How long did it take those with interviews for Middletown to hear back? I got an interview from Harlem pretty quickly but haven’t heard anything from Middletown.
 
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