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Hoyden,

Don't you still have to cut to get the cath across the membrane?
Or is it rigid enough to push through itself? Could have the same problem though, lots and lots of blood in a bad airway. This might be one of those moments you guys roll your eyes when watching TV but I need a train wreck here. Sorry. 🙂
D712
 
I understand - it's entertainment, after all. Just legally and on oral boards presentation this is a big NO - the absence of the ENT in the room - ready to trach NOW

Actually hoyden

U bring up a curious point for me. Is this specific to ENT or other surgeries or expected difficult airways. What I mean is, if this were not an ENT surgery, say a
Back surgery or a brain, Is the correct answer on orals that the surgeon needs to be in room
During induction an intubation? What I usually see is a duck in by surgeon, how much time we got guys, goes to scrub, and is back when curtain is up.
So is your oral board comment specific to ENT surgeries (I've only been in for
Two of those, complete laryngectomy (holy dissection batman) and an exploratory one.
Or is it also specific to expected difficult airway ones?
THX
D712
 
Hoyden,

Don't you still have to cut to get the cath across the membrane?
Or is it rigid enough to push through itself? Could have the same problem though, lots and lots of blood in a bad airway. This might be one of those moments you guys roll your eyes when watching TV but I need a train wreck here. Sorry. 🙂
D712

The angiocath is over a needle; an angiocatheter is an IV catheter. Gotta remember to use the laryngoscopes to let the air out when jet ventilating or you can develop a pneumothorax/tension pneumo. Puncturing the cricoid membrane should be nearly bloodless.
 
No. Hilarious. That would be, what we call, "on the nose". 😀

You want the fabricated case I used? Here it is:

It's M&M, 7am, junior resident presenting. Mexican-themed breakfast spread this month, burritos. But there are always bagels. So, burritos and bagels.

The case: 9 y/o male sp T&A returns to hospital with blood tinged sputum, low grade fever, complaining of throat pain. Got triaged and is on his way to the OR for a re-do on a bleeder with ENT. (all being presented by young CA-1 or 2).

Preop by our junior resident: an IV and 1mg Midaz. (remember, I need to have this kid screw up, so this is the first area for debate)
Debate: do you give 1mg Midaz to a kid that might have a difficult airway? if you overdo it, he risks aspirating, yes? BUT, the kid is screaming and crying so the junior dude gave it to calm down that BP and avoid increasing any bleed rate. But, I'm told, it's debatable...

Induction: Ketamine 1.5mg/kg and Rocuronium .6mg/kg. (debate #2: should he have used Roc or Sux, Chairman screams that he should have used Sux because it's on and off faster, giving a better chance to ventilate when the time is right. Jr. Resident, seems to recall a family history of MH. Still Chairman rips him an ass over choice of paralytic.)

On the OR table, Jr. resident is now facing a can't intubate, can't ventilate situation. Bloody airway that is getting bloodier.
Calls for ENT to get a surgical airway!!!

Smash to: ENT is slamming a Nurse in his office.

Jr. Resident decides to do the trach himself, but since the airway is so ferchlempt, he intubates the tissue area, and not the airway or the esophagus btw, not that the later would help.

Hypoxia, CPR, Death. Mom distraught. In for a T&A in the morning, out in a body bag at night. Maybe mom shouldn't have insisted boy get discharged home so fast in order to get her
afternoon of alcohol drinking underway....

All meds and doses confirmed with Peds Anesthesiologist, and the case itself, remember, this is just TV folks!

Coming to a boobtube near you! : )

D712

Is this show by any chance Monday Mornings? If not, it could be a decently accurate show since I believe Sanjay Gupta has some heavy input on it.
 
This is not a morning show.

D712
 
Yeah, it's not the Sanjay show and even if it were I couldn't say because that would essentially out me but it's not because I would tell you if it were but I can't say especially since I gave away some upcoming storylines but it's not. 😱

D712 😀

p.s. remember every medical show has its own Dr. Gupta, or two, on staff and consulting. But since they're also writing, creatively, things go wrong. They can only correct what we want them to correct...
House had three MDs on staff I think, and look at all the stuff they put out there. Storytelling first, follow, hopefully, by a close-second of fact telling. Sometimes a conceit or dramatization of reality is really needed. i.e. punching a Chairman over an M&M case. Makes for good TV, but docs kind of roll their eyes. My sense is, real agents at NCIS' LA field office, probably don't discharge their weapons as much as LL Cool J portrays. 😉

p.s.p.s. My show is a pilot script at this point, not on air. Yet. 🙂
 
Actually hoyden

U bring up a curious point for me. Is this specific to ENT or other surgeries or expected difficult airways. What I mean is, if this were not an ENT surgery, say a
Back surgery or a brain, Is the correct answer on orals that the surgeon needs to be in room
During induction an intubation? What I usually see is a duck in by surgeon, how much time we got guys, goes to scrub, and is back when curtain is up.
So is your oral board comment specific to ENT surgeries (I've only been in for
Two of those, complete laryngectomy (holy dissection batman) and an exploratory one.
Or is it also specific to expected difficult airway ones?
THX
D712


The point is you are anticipating a high probability of a STAT surgical airway and you need to have a surgeon able to do that in the room ready to go - obviously in an emergency case it might be difficult to find an ENT surgeon but this IS an ENT case, so he/she needs to be in the room and ready to go. The nurse can wait 😉

In other situations - usually you do not have them - if you have a known difficult airway usually it is not bleeding - so you can go awake fiberoptic. But there are a lot of variables - you will find out. managing the airway going south IS one of the obligatory parts of your orals.
 
Hoyden,

Don't you still have to cut to get the cath across the membrane?
Or is it rigid enough to push through itself? Could have the same problem though, lots and lots of blood in a bad airway. This might be one of those moments you guys roll your eyes when watching TV but I need a train wreck here. Sorry. 🙂
D712

The questions are all legitimate. Obviously the bleeding airway is not the best option for sliding the angiocath as it might become clogged, but it is one of the options and the high pressure flow of the oxygen will dislodge any clots( you can't just leave that catheter for breathing - you have to connect to a device which will push oxygen through it under pressure)
I have done it only once and as I recall I did not have to cut - that membrane is penetrable to a needle - the angiocath is then connected to a jet set for oxygenating - it is a very temporary method, just to but you few additional moments to secure the airway - surgically. And it was not a bleeding tonsil in a kid.
 
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These consulting questions are worth a consulting fee.😉
I suggest a prominent university faculty member. 😀😀

Absolutely! I agree. Who do you have in mind IlD, I could use some suggestions? 😀

D712
 
This thread was epic. From start to finish. Please see D712s earlier threads on TV writing, and all the wonderful responses and interest.

BANABLE!!!!!!

WM1846
 
The point is you are anticipating a high probability of a STAT surgical airway and you need to have a surgeon able to do that in the room ready to go - obviously in an emergency case it might be difficult to find an ENT surgeon but this IS an ENT case, so he/she needs to be in the room and ready to go. The nurse can wait 😉

In other situations - usually you do not have them - if you have a known difficult airway usually it is not bleeding - so you can go awake fiberoptic. But there are a lot of variables - you will find out. managing the airway going south IS one of the obligatory parts of your orals.

This back and forth is banable!!!!

But, I don't suggest you get banned Hoyden. Something MUCH more random should occur.

Let's draw names out of a , someone deserves a BANNING.

Sorry, MILMD, you're banned!!!! You had a post from 2004, it was highly banable!!!!! Y'er time is up!!!!

D712
 
This back and forth is banable!!!!

But, I don't suggest you get banned Hoyden. Something MUCH more random should occur.

Let's draw names out of a , someone deserves a BANNING.

Sorry, MILMD, you're banned!!!! You had a post from 2004, it was highly banable!!!!! Y'er time is up!!!!

D712

He should have gotten banned when he started posting personal information about me.
 
He should have gotten banned when he started posting personal information about me.

I don't remember that, must've been before my time. Not that I'd be able to comment on it anyway.

Malicious posting of personal info / "outing" usually gets a no-warning insta-ban and post/thread deletion. If the subject user has "self-outed" himself in the past, and the offender just references that previously voluntarily released info, it's generally not actionable.
 
Just discovered The Green Wing on Netflix. British, reminds me of Scrubs a little. Worth checking out.

Also on Netflix and also British and hilarious, The In-Betweeners. Comedy gold. Not unlike 21 minute episodes of Superbad.

I decided to check out the green wing after seeing your review. Pretty hilarious... in a british humor type of way. I've never seen a show where an anesthesiologist is one of the main characters, always bantering with the surgeon. Love it!
 
This back and forth is banable!!!!

But, I don't suggest you get banned Hoyden. Something MUCH more random should occur.

Let's draw names out of a , someone deserves a BANNING.

Sorry, MILMD, you're banned!!!! You had a post from 2004, it was highly banable!!!!! Y'er time is up!!!!

D712


I do not understand your ire, but I've posted yesterday that I feel guilty if I had involuntarily anything to do with your ban - for some reason this post is removed.

I was discussing the real life angle of the situation you've described and I do not know which part of that discussion is prohibited.
Contrary to what you might think I do not consider you a villain ( of a kind 😉) even if I am on an opposite direction of your political views. And since I am not that often reading and posting here I might have missed quite a bit of a show.
 
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