UCLA GPA Repair, Gap Year Work, Post-Bacc v Masters

[Nintendraw]

I'm a junior in MIMG/Microbio (Path 2) at UCLA. Currently 3.5c/3.2s with some ECs and research under my belt; will take the new MCAT before coming back for senior year. Though I can graduate in fall by major reqs completion, I may stick around to do GPA repair. May as well use that financial aid while I still can. Anyone from UCLA know some good, preferably upper-div (better than lower-div, right?) sGPA repair classes? I'm thinking astronomy and psychology, but are there more/am I wrong? Also, is 185A (really the nightmare people say it is) feasible on top of 180B+196B, or would I be better pushing it to winter and taking "easier" classes alongside it?

I'll also be taking a gap year to work at the hospitals or clinics; haven't applied anywhere yet. Is MA or scribe a better option as far as clinical experience? I like the idea of scribing because I can write/type decently fast and potentially being able to help the doctor diagnose (more likely developing my own diagnosing skill XD) seems more valuable than administrative work--but from the thread I read here, MAs may be more likely to take vitals, draw blood, etc., which gives a hands-on aspect that I would really like. (Of course, it could be a case-by-case basis...)

I've gathered from my reading that formal post-baccs redo science prereqs, so I likely won't qualify for those. What are the pros and cons of DIY post-bacc and Masters? From my reading here, neither option boosts one's chances of getting into an affiliated med school (ie UCLA post-bacc doesn't boost DGSOM admission chances), and Master's doesn't even affect/boost your AMCAS GPA and is also less valued than post-bacc. I ask because my mom is dead-set on me getting a Masters at Touro University in California precisely because she thinks it will improve my AMCAS standing.

Thanks!

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[KanyeWesternBacon]

Probably Astronomy or something like Phy Sci 5. A lot of the psych classes are easier (relative to something like MIMG or Phy Sci), but the issue is that if you don't have any of the pre-requisites for them fulfilled (i.e. Psych 100A, B; 115), you won't be able to enroll. If you are able to enroll in them I'd take 120B, 115 (depending on who your teacher is), and a good chunk of the 119 series. And frankly a lot of the ones that would actually count in your sGPA are not as easy as you think. Also I vouch for you spacing out your hard classes instead of trying to take them all in one quarter. Better to get a 3.8 for 3 quarters than a 2.8 + 4.0 + 4.0.

Also I'd say scribing is looked upon more favorably than being an MA. Being an MA gives you direct patient contact but being a scribe gives you more than enough contact with patients and is more relevant to what you'll be doing in the future.

 

[neekzg]

physci 167 (usually winter) - physio of nutrition
plant physiology (idk what number)

for that matter probably any biology major upper div

can you continue to do research for SRP credit?

you can also apply to be a UA for LS23L, where you'd enroll in LS192A and B while you're helping teach the courses. super easy A and provides some good teaching experience and letter of rec from whichever TA is coordinating it (co-signed by professor)

If I were you, i'd really take advantage of all the time you have left before graduating to boost your science GPA. Perhaps take another year off and continue to take science classes (DIY postbac as you mentioned) until it's at least ~3.5

 

[sss1219]

Astro 3-5 are all super easy. EEBio162 (plant physiology) + 162L are the only upper divs that come to mind that are at this level. Epi100 and Biostat100A are also not too bad if you plan your teachers our properly (only Biostat will count BCPM though).

My general understanding is that post bacc is for remedial uGPA repair - retake some classes, do some extra ones and get your GPA back into the normal GPA zone for acceptance for med schools, since the two are factored together. SMP programs are more for extreme GPA repair because doing post bacc work would take forever for where your uGPA is as this type of applicant. They are also very expensive and often much harder with having to take actual classes with med students, which makes them somewhat less desirable. Non-SMP masters programs, unless very sciency, do not help much with grade forgiveness. For guarantees on getting into med schools after an SMP, go to the post bacc forum and look at those programs with linkage or high interview rates for SMP students. Off the top of my head, Tulane, Tufts, Georgetown are a few that have high interview rates if you do well in the programs

I may be wrong in case anyone wants to correct me, but thats my understanding of post undergraduate work.

EDIT: 185A is the hardest class I took by far. The material isn't that difficult, but there is SO much minute detail that you must know that it can be exhausting. I took it with upper div MCDB classes and did alright, just give yourself ample time for studying.

EDIT 2: You won't be helping with diagnoses as a scribe but your clinical skills will definitely develop somewhat. The terminology is probably the most useful thing you'll come to get out of it. I would first take the job that offers most growth (which neither probably do), then the one that helps you live more comfortably - they both count for clinical experience in the end although being an MA is probably somewhat more impressive since everyone is working as a scribe nowadays.

 

[KanyeWesternBacon]

SRP 199 also

 

[Nintendraw]

Hoo, lot of replies. Thanks! Just going to @-tag everyone.

@KanyeWesternBacon: I suppose 120B is a Psych class? I'll take a look at that, 115, 119, and PhySci 5, but odds are I won't be able to take those upper-divs (100A might not even give me elective units here due to AP Psych; gotta check). It's still a little while yet before I need to register for fall classes--if Chem 153B doesn't look too hot, I'll probably have to space out 185A from research and add lower-div (or maybe upper-div) classes to that. Noted about scribing!

@neekzg: EEB 162, PhySci 167, and LS 192A+B have been noted. Really liking the UA thing; thanks! (Yay, rat lab again!) I've taken 2 MIMG 199's and am in MIMG Path 2 (which adds 2 196's), so I'd imagine I either can't get credit or would get it as elective credit. Pretty sure the number of MIMG 199's that count for major credit differs for Path 1 and 2, but I never thought much about the elective units... The UA thing sounds really tempting; thanks! Did you do it yourself? And boost the science GPA, huh... MY folks would be pissed if I go the super-senior route, but... ^^;

@sss1219: Astro 3-5, Biostats 100A, and... do you enroll in 162L concurrently with 162? Interesting that a lab would be among this list. Wait a minute, are you recommending me SMP over DIY post-bacc? From what I read, SMP is effectively 1 year of med school, and if you fail, you're done... I'd rather not face that ultimatum yet. o.o I can go check that post-bacc forum though. Noted about the MA and scribing--terminology should be fun, unless maybe if it's drug names more than Greco-Latin science terms. How nitpicky is the teacher for 185A (Dasgupta, right)? Should I memorize everything on the slides? (Also, yay, Noctis!)

If I lack too many prereqs for the upper-divs, I guess it's lower-divs for me... I wonder if it'll look funny to have a bunch in senior year, but as far as GPA is concerned, I suppose a number is a number.

 

[sss1219]

162l and 162 are separate classes and both would probably require first pass to grab. They are basically the scand50w of upper div ls classes. Not recommending SMP, just explaining the differences - seems to me if you end on a high with a sgpa ~3.3 you'll be in good shape for a year or 2 of grade replacement via post bacc. Also in good shape for going DO if you're okay with that route - the AACOMAS app allows total grade replacement with rtaking a class which is not the case for AMCAS, hence your stats with a few class repeats would be quite moreso competitive for the DO route. Something like a 3.0 would be hard to come back from, which would require SMP. You are correct about the make or break notion of SMPs.

 

[mehc012]

I would also caution you not to repair your gpa solely through 'easy' classes...not because you won't get in, but because it will prevent you from learning what's wrong with your study habits and fixing them. Remember, the end goal of this is to become a doctor, not simply to get into med school. Easy courses may get you the short-term goal, but figuring out how to succeed in challenging upper levels will help you towards both goals.

 

[Nintendraw]

@mehc012 Warning acknowledged. If "easy" there means lower divs onht be I can't read the teacher's head when preparing for tests ? This last midterm thati don't have the grade for, I memorized slides and the test ended up being application/experiment based instead. Part of the thing might be I can't read the teacher's head when preparing for tests? Ugh.

@sss1219 I see. Good to know i still have hope, though I hope that second year of post-bacc isn't necessary. If it goes that far, besides everyone being pissed, I get the distinct feeling my folks are going to shove me into grad school instead... I have no problem going DO, though of course MD is preferable if the numbers just work in my favor XD

If there aren't any prereqs or I met them already, I wonder if I should stack the 162s with 180/196 or with 185A (probably not) or wait until spring, in which case I ought to be able to take Biostats too. Last option looks best at first glance; what the rest of the classes are depends on what i meet prereqs for. iirc, the UA classes are sequential, which would leave room for at least one more, possibly lower div class.

 

[neekzg]

I did do UA myself! I highly recommend it for the reasons I mentioned (teaching experience, easy grade boost, potential letter of rec, presentation skills). I forgot to mention that I believe there's a requisite that you had to have earned a certain grade in LS23L? Or they will look at your life science grades along with your statement of interest, schedule availability, etc. when considering your UA application.

Certainly work on your GPAs as much as you can before graduating. If you are truly okay with the DO route, you could be competitive as is. It doesn't hurt to see what happens in a year to see if you might be competitive for MDs. This decision will be influenced heavily by your success on the MCAT.

 

[mehc012]

@mehc012 Warning acknowledged. If "easy" there means lower divs onht be I can't read the teacher's head when preparing for tests ? This last midterm thati don't have the grade for, I memorized slides and the test ended up being application/experiment based instead.

Part of the thing might be I can't read the teacher's head when preparing for tests? Ugh.

It has nothing to do with 'lower divs' or higher ones. It has to do with learning how to learn. If you are not succeeding in classes, the appropriate response is to figure out how to succeed in classes, not to look for easier ones so that it looks like you have improved without any real change occurring.

Your story is an excellent example of what I'm talking about: your poor performance in that class is not due to the fact that you couldn't "read the teacher's head," it's that your study strategy was to brute-force memorize instead of learning how to relate and apply the concepts. It's normal to fall into that trap sometimes, and of course memorization is a very useful skill...but blaming it on not being able to mind-read demonstrates that you're not LEARNING from your mistakes and improving your study strategies. To me, that is the most important thing to address before even thinking about attending med school. What's the point of getting there if you don't have the skills to succeed at it? Again, the goal is to be a physician, not to become a med student.

 

[Nintendraw]

I did do UA myself! I highly recommend it for the reasons I mentioned (teaching experience, easy grade boost, potential letter of rec, presentation skills). I forgot to mention that I believe there's a requisite that you had to have earned a certain grade in LS23L? Or they will look at your life science grades along with your statement of interest, schedule availability, etc. when considering your UA application.

Certainly work on your GPAs as much as you can before graduating. If you are truly okay with the DO route, you could be competitive as is. It doesn't hurt to see what happens in a year to see if you might be competitive for MDs. This decision will be influenced heavily by your success on the MCAT.

Thanks~ Time to make like Wright and turn this around!

Your story is an excellent example of what I'm talking about: your poor performance in that class is not due to the fact that you couldn't "read the teacher's head," it's that your study strategy was to brute-force memorize instead of learning how to relate and apply the concepts. It's normal to fall into that trap sometimes, and of course memorization is a very useful skill...but blaming it on not being able to mind-read demonstrates that you're not LEARNING from your mistakes and improving your study strategies.

Thanks for the face-slap. I'll remember that when revising study strategies this weekend. x)

 

[Nintendraw]

162l and 162 are separate classes and both would probably require first pass to grab. They are basically the scand50w of upper div ls classes.

Have they always been spring/summer only? The past two years seems to indicate so.

you can also apply to be a UA for LS23L, where you'd enroll in LS192A and B while you're helping teach the courses. super easy A and provides some good teaching experience and letter of rec from whichever TA is coordinating it (co-signed by professor)

Sorry for the double-quote; I finally got a chance to look at the classes everyone listed here. I saw 4 different versions of LS192 (ABCD)--were only two required for the LOR or all four? Asking because I can fit three, but not four of them into 4th year unless I can double them. I suppose you apply the quarter before (which means I have to apply over summer).

 

[neekzg]

https://www.lscore.ucla.edu/ls192.php

The UA program for LS23L is 192A and B. I believe C-E refer to being a UA for the physics/chem major version of life science labs, or other courses for physical science majors.

 

[Nintendraw]

https://www.lscore.ucla.edu/ls192.php

The UA program for LS23L is 192A and B. I believe C-E refer to being a UA for the physics/chem major version of life science labs, or other courses for physical science majors.

I see! The page you linked said nothing about C-E (didn't know there's an E), but the 2015-2016 catalog makes C look applicable for LS4 and D+E for the math classes. Odd that the essay area seemingly has no character limit. Thanks!

 

[neekzg]

I see! The page you linked said nothing about C-E (didn't know there's an E), but the 2015-2016 catalog makes C look applicable for LS4 and D+E for the math classes. Odd that the essay area seemingly has no character limit. Thanks!

ah yes, I looked up the catalog as well since I didn't know there was C/D and then I saw the E as well. Really not sure about 192C. As far as I know, there are no UAs for LS4 so it might be some other class. They definitely do not want you to write pages worth for the essays. Few paragraphs should suffice.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

To answer your question. idk the difference but it would be best to check with schools you are applying to. If it's classes you can retake at a CC.. then do so as long as you can ace them.

As a sidenote...this is exactly why I always tell these kids to attend a CC first... solidify that GPA and then move onto a fourth year... not to mention the money you save... and let's not forget about avoiding all the competition... lol

FWIW most of the premed UCLA kids I know whom messed up their GPA ended up taking too much time off and stopped pursuing medicine or ended up in the Caribbean...

I would definitely give DO programs a good look if I were you though.

You still got time, all depends on your MCAT now though.

Good luck.

 

[Nintendraw]

If it's classes you can retake at a CC.. then do so as long as you can ace them.

FWIW most of the premed UCLA kids I know whom messed up their GPA ended up taking too much time off and stopped pursuing medicine or ended up in the Caribbean...

I would definitely give DO programs a good look if I were you though.

You still got time, all depends on your MCAT now. Good luck.

I don't know that a retake would be necessary/wise/doable since it's not like I failed the classes. My numbers are due to B's but not C's thus far. For now I'm going to use most of my fourth year to patch up my GPA and from there decide if I need additional classes from the local state university or if I should focus solely on work/clinical experience. If I did the math right, I have time to haul my numbers up to something at least acceptable by MDs, though DOs are definitely an option. I have no intention of taking multiple gap years, and Caribbean is a bit last-ditch for me right now.

Thanks~

 

[qwerty89]

To answer your question. idk the difference but it would be best to check with schools you are applying to. If it's classes you can retake at a CC.. then do so as long as you can ace them.

As a sidenote...this is exactly why I always tell these kids to attend a CC first... solidify that GPA and then move onto a fourth year... not to mention the money you save... and let's not forget about avoiding all the competition... lol

FWIW most of the premed UCLA kids I know whom messed up their GPA ended up taking too much time off and stopped pursuing medicine or ended up in the Caribbean...

I would definitely give DO programs a good look if I were you though.

You still got time, all depends on your MCAT now though.

Good luck.

Former UCLA grad and current PGY-1 Radiology-bound intern...

I'm always confused why so many UCLA students stay in majors like PhySci or MIMG or MCDB when they could have done Psychobio instead. Worked for me.

The key about psychobio is that you can take any psych class that has the word "biology" in it and classify it as science for AMCAS. Classes like "Biological Basis of Psychiatric Disorders" count as science. Plus all the psych majors taking it would get confused with the most basic neuroscience principles, like action potentials.

I made sure to take extra science courses to bump that GPA too. PhySci 167 Nutrition was money. Also try the intro to the bioresearch minor course. Super Easy A.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

I don't know that a retake would be necessary/wise/doable since it's not like I failed the classes. My numbers are due to B's but not C's thus far. For now I'm going to use most of my fourth year to patch up my GPA and from there decide if I need additional classes from the local state university or if I should focus solely on work/clinical experience. If I did the math right, I have time to haul my numbers up to something at least acceptable by MDs, though DOs are definitely an option. I have no intention of taking multiple gap years, and Caribbean is a bit last-ditch for me right now.

Thanks~

Good. Work hard.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Former UCLA grad and current PGY-1 Radiology-bound intern...

I'm always confused why so many UCLA students stay in majors like PhySci or MIMG or MCDB when they could have done Psychobio instead. Worked for me.

The key about psychobio is that you can take any psych class that has the word "biology" in it and classify it as science for AMCAS. Classes like "Biological Basis of Psychiatric Disorders" count as science. Plus all the psych majors taking it would get confused with the most basic neuroscience principles, like action potentials.

I made sure to take extra science courses to bump that GPA too. PhySci 167 Nutrition was money. Also try the intro to the bioresearch minor course. Super Easy A.

Awesome. Good for you. Like I said... It was many of the kids I personally knew. Not saying everybody from LA was not successful. Good work!

 

[Nintendraw]

Former UCLA grad and current PGY-1 Radiology-bound intern...

I'm always confused why so many UCLA students stay in majors like PhySci or MIMG or MCDB when they could have done Psychobio instead. Worked for me.

The key about psychobio is that you can take any psych class that has the word "biology" in it and classify it as science for AMCAS. Classes like "Biological Basis of Psychiatric Disorders" count as science. Plus all the psych majors taking it would get confused with the most basic neuroscience principles, like action potentials.

I made sure to take extra science courses to bump that GPA too. PhySci 167 Nutrition was money. Also try the intro to the bioresearch minor course. Super Easy A.

I think ultimately, it was I liked some of the MIMG classes + didn't want to redo some classes + moved too slowly for that XD Too bad my bro doesn't want to follow me so that I could pass this along.

Oh! I think I forgot to look at PhySci 167 when listing 4th year classes in my plan. Must check it out... If you mean BR5HA, I did take that (can that count as BCPM? I did ace it), but if you mean the minor, might be a bit too late.