Ultimate comparison: CCOM vs. Western vs. KCUMB

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stmclovin said:
all DO schools have very little research going on, including KCUMB. I have an extensive research background (several pubs, including couple 1st authors) and I wanted to get some research done in a big name PI lab.

Each of these schools had something interesting going for it. Either it was a location (i.e. California) or how well the school is established. I live in midwest so I can relate to Chicago more than I can to California. But I alsways wanted to leave in California, even though I am almost certain that it would next to impossible for me to match there.
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Well, I intend to do some research while in medical but I'm not really sure what in right now and I also plan on going to KCUMB unless my state allopathic ends up accepting me. Right now, I have seven years of experience in analytical chemistry and am thinking about continuing my research but transforming it to be more medically related. I know that no matter where I go, I will be able to find someone to work with even if I have to write the grant proposals myself (hopefully not). That's what I mean by finding your own opportunities. Even if there was a research building where you end up going to school, what's the chance that there will be a professor there who is doing research in the exact field of your interest? It's not great. Actually, I think there are only a handful of researchers in the US who do what I am intersested in so there's about a 0% chance for me. Make your own opportunities, that's what I say!
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spazzz said:
whats the point of going DO if you're interests lie in research? You're better off applying to an MD school that is dedicated to those aspects in medicince. They did say the research was for faculty, and it would be completed by 2008.
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That's kind of what I was thinking. It does make you more competitive for residencies but a big name PI who you work with year round is definitely not necessary unless you want to be a researcher.
 
Let's get back to talking about me!!!

Tex, I had to ask my college-age children if "big pimping" was a good thing or bad. I forgot to ask them how to quote someone correctly though.

Originally Posted by TexasTriathlete
He probably interviewed with Archer, who is in his 40's, looks like a doc, and is big pimpin all-around.


 
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spazzz said:
whats the point of going DO if you're interests lie in research? You're better off applying to an MD school that is dedicated to those aspects in medicince. They did say the research was for faculty, and it would be completed by 2008.
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I felt that I spent enough time in research and now would like to learn how to work with patients. I cant get into MD schools for several reasons which I choose not discuss here. Plus, all research-oriented school are dop dogs and it is extremely competetive to get into those schools. So all I have left is the MD schools that are not research oriented... so what's is the difference between non-research MD and DO schools? I want to be a doctor and I found a way how to accomplish this.

Plus, who said that DO fields do not require research? Yes, DO schools may not provide the background for research; but what if a person is willing to pursue it in alternative ways.
 
t-funk said:
Well, I intend to do some research while in medical but I'm not really sure what in right now and I also plan on going to KCUMB unless my state allopathic ends up accepting me. Right now, I have seven years of experience in analytical chemistry and am thinking about continuing my research but transforming it to be more medically related. I know that no matter where I go, I will be able to find someone to work with even if I have to write the grant proposals myself (hopefully not). That's what I mean by finding your own opportunities. Even if there was a research building where you end up going to school, what's the chance that there will be a professor there who is doing research in the exact field of your interest? It's not great. Actually, I think there are only a handful of researchers in the US who do what I am intersested in so there's about a 0% chance for me. Make your own opportunities, that's what I say!
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That's exactly what I mean. :thumbup:
 
t-funk said:
That's kind of what I was thinking. It does make you more competitive for residencies but a big name PI who you work with year round is definitely not necessary unless you want to be a researcher.
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I think if I go to big city, there will be a greater variety of labs represented and a person can find something interesting in a specific field. I know of really interesting stuff that is going on in Cali and Chicago as far ophtho and neuro (another interest of mine) go.
 
to answer your question then, go to CCOM. I know PCOM has great research opportunities, but that wasn't on your list
 
spazzz said:
to answer your question then, go to CCOM. I know PCOM has great research opportunities, but that wasn't on your list
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But them LA area also offers a lot of research and networking opportunities.
 
Is if were rank the schools from less prestigious to more prestigius it would be Western<KCUMB<CCOM
 
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t-funk said:
Jeez, are you kidding? Mine was on sale for $98!
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i'm kidding, but that's only because i don't have 2500$. mine was an H&M suit.

stmclovin said:
Is if were rank the schools from less prestigious to more prestigius it would be Western<KCUMB<CCOM
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yes. that's right. but that's only saying prestige is oldest only.
 
tkim said:
If you ranked DO schools according to 'prestige', perhaps DO schools aren't really what you're looking for ...
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do tell me what I am looking for.
 
MaximusD said:
God you're a little whiner. Meet some new people... You're not going to only work with "avg joe" people for the rest of your life.
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Sure hope you were referring to the OP, because the only comments I've made on this thread are attempting to help him "translate" what he was saying since many people didn't seem to understand that one comment.
 
stmclovin said:
On a sidenote, lets leave the discussion about the attire out of this post.

Also as far as DO's having hard time matching into allo ophto, I can image that it is hard. I know of at least one confirmed FMG who matched into ophto. Of course, the guy had to destroy the boards, but he got in. Plus, there are unfilled ophtho spots left over almost every year.
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it is hard for even a US MD to match into allopathic Optha programs

I believe the head of John Hopkins radiology is a FMG as well...but that doesn't mean all FMG's have a realistic shot at hopkins

DO's, however, can apply towards allo Opth and osteo opth..and still end up on the same road at the end
 
stmclovin said:
I thought it was most educational building, but now recall that they did mention something about research. I saw some contruction and they showed us the plan... It is supposed to be finished in 2009. Plus, it will take them forever to recruit the research faculty so I doubt it is will be anything exciting as far as research goes at least in the nearest 2-3 year after opening. Also, why would anyone want to do research at Western if there is UCLA and USC.
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Western has a research building right now, the new building is for the DO students to have an exclusive building I think (i.e. not sharing with Pharm students). I interveiwed with Dr. Bi and she talked about the research she was working on, see http://www.westernu.edu/xp/edu/research/news_comp.xml

Also, one of the student hosts talked about how she did reseach during the summer after 1st year.
 
Enginerds said:
Western has a research building right now, the new building is for the DO students to have an exclusive building I think (i.e. not sharing with Pharm students). I interveiwed with Dr. Bi and she talked about the research she was working on, see http://www.westernu.edu/xp/edu/research/news_comp.xml

Also, one of the student hosts talked about how she did reseach during the summer after 1st year.
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Yeah, I understand that we can do research there. They did not show us the facilities and the building looked small. There are more interesting things going on for both basic and clinical research in bigger schools. Also, the best research faculty is probably not going end up at Western anyways.
 
stmclovin said:
Yeah, I understand that we can do research there. They did not show us the facilities and the building looked small. There are more interesting things going on for both basic and clinical research in bigger schools. Also, the best research faculty is probably not going end up at Western anyways.
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Yea, it kind of seemed that way. They didn't show it to us either (the inside of the building anyway). Said it for "safety reasons" that they didn't show us the inside, seemed kind of fishy.

But yea, it's not like they are going to be able to attract the same calibur PhD's as big name/money research schools. I think it's mostly for the new "Biomedical Sciences" school they are opening, because most DO students I talked to said they didn't do any research, that there simply wasn't time. The one student that did research said she did 7 weeks during the summer of 1st year, and was slave driven to finish up before 2nd year started so she could present at a conference.
 
Enginerds said:
Yea, it kind of seemed that way. They didn't show it to us either (the inside of the building anyway). Said it for "safety reasons" that they didn't show us the inside, seemed kind of fishy.

But yea, it's not like they are going to be able to attract the same calibur PhD's as big name/money research schools. I think it's mostly for the new "Biomedical Sciences" school they are opening, because most DO students I talked to said they didn't do any research, that there simply wasn't time. The one student that did research said she did 7 weeks during the summer of 1st year, and was slave driven to finish up before 2nd year started so she could present at a conference.
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I was planning to do something in summer. probably will not have time to do research during school year since I am thinking to volunteer at a free clinic and maybe couple clubs.
 
another thing that I am puzzled that they did not show us a match list. Neiter did KCUMB. DMU and CCOM gave us their match lists.
 
stmclovin said:
another thing that I am puzzled that they did not show us a match list. Neiter did KCUMB. DMU and CCOM gave us their match lists.
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that kind of comes with the territory of applying DO. You're supposed to go into primary care.......so whats the real point of a match list? A bit disappointing, as every program varies, but with the older schools, you can count on them matching into competitive residencies. Western has a neurosurgery program...
 
stmclovin said:
another thing that I am puzzled that they did not show us a match list. Neiter did KCUMB. DMU and CCOM gave us their match lists.
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Someone in my interview group asked about their matchlist and the admissions director said we could pick up a copy of the commencement program in her office after the interview which listed all the matches for last years class. I didn't pick one up though sorry...
 
stmclovin said:
another thing that I am puzzled that they did not show us a match list. Neiter did KCUMB. DMU and CCOM gave us their match lists.
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KCUMB has provided the previous year's match list to students who have asked, and as posted in other threads on SDN KCUMB lists match percentage by specialty on their website.
 
Just interviews at CCOM and have been accepted to KCUMB but withdrew. I think CCOM felt like a better for me. If you look at matchlists, both schools got it going on. CCOM has great hospitals where rotations are done and obviously have the reputation. I think both schools would do a great job with educated and getting one into their interested residency. Go with where you feel comfortable. One thing that I did hear about at KCUMB that I do not hear about CCOM, are the administrative problems. Not sure if they are true or not though
 
spazzz said:
that kind of comes with the territory of applying DO. You're supposed to go into primary care.......so whats the real point of a match list? A bit disappointing, as every program varies, but with the older schools, you can count on them matching into competitive residencies. Western has a neurosurgery program...
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Match list tells what hospitals people can match to. Even in primary care, there are different residency qualities.
 
Patel1268 said:
Just interviews at CCOM and have been accepted to KCUMB but withdrew. I think CCOM felt like a better for me. If you look at matchlists, both schools got it going on. CCOM has great hospitals where rotations are done and obviously have the reputation. I think both schools would do a great job with educated and getting one into their interested residency. Go with where you feel comfortable. One thing that I did hear about at KCUMB that I do not hear about CCOM, are the administrative problems. Not sure if they are true or not though
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Yeah, but CCOM has old technology which was sadening. KCUMB looks cozier. But I am decided against KCUMB in favor of bigger cities. It is either Western or CCOM for me.
 
stmclovin said:
Western
Found: ~1977
Unanswered question: Only ~2700 people applied to this school for 220 seats, comparing to 3700 people for 160 seats in Chicago. I would think California school should receive much more applicants than that. I do not understand why a Cali school would have less people applying to it than Chicago school.
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There are 2 osteo schools in California and just one in Illinois.

Thanks for the really helpful post!
 
well, I just got a acceptance letter from KCUMB. Yet, I am at a total loss where to go. Each schools has something that I like. Meanwhile, I am going to send Western a depasit and just wait hoping I can decide.
 
I interviewed at KCUMB (waiting on a letter) and got accepted to Western and Touro. I declined the Western Acceptance for a number of reasons, but overall I felt like KCUMB was the best fit for me out of all the places I have interviewed at (4 total). I am interested in the MBA program at KCUMB as well as the fact that a high percentage of graduates go into a specialty. I live in Southern Cali and I didn't like the feel of Western. A lot of people seem happy there, but I feel that I would do better at KCUMB and have a better experience. I just hope I get in...
 
stmclovin said:
Yeah, but CCOM has old technology which was sadening. KCUMB looks cozier. But I am decided against KCUMB in favor of bigger cities. It is either Western or CCOM for me.
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Well, go with what works for you, but I think location is overrated. You'll be pretty busy with school work...enough that going out and about isn't going to be too high on your list of priorities. You'll spend a good majority of your time sitting on your butt reading notes and in the anatomy lab. So, perhaps location, unless there are extenuating circumstances, isn't that critical of a factor. I'd favor the school that you think is going to prepare you best for residency. Just something to toss around...
 
Perspective is everything. Kansas City, with a population of 2.1 million, seems so huge and scary to me. I've always considered it a big city with all the opportunities you could want.
 
stmclovin said:
I thought KC was much smaller than that, just over 441k people vs. 3.7 mil people at LA. If you count surrounding areas, I am sure LA will be bigger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_city#Demographics

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_angeles#Demographics
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I guess I always consider the metro area since you don't really know how many smaller communities such as Independence, Blue Springs, Liberty, Overland Park, etc are actually included in the population of KC proper but really are KC. I live in a town of about 250,000 people and I can tell you that KC has the ammenities and opportunities of a town about 10 times bigger than my town. It does not behave like a 450,000 population town. The LA metro is about 12 mil.
 
stmclovin said:
I thought KC was much smaller than that, just over 441k people vs. 3.7 mil people at LA. If you count surrounding areas, I am sure LA will be bigger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_city#Demographics

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_angeles#Demographics
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Yeah, truly, KCMO is a smaller city in terms of demographics, but population size isn't everything. The city has a nice skyline and there isn't a lack of things to do at all, if you consider Westport, Northland, Overland Park, and other nearby city areas, such as the River Market district. As a bonus, you don't get the city traffic (there is some extremely minor traffic over the bridge, but it's absolutely nothing compared to LA/DC traffic). I remember reading somewhere that KCMO is around the same size as Miami, so it's not a small city by any means.

The area near the school is pretty much rundown, but don't let that fool you. There are plenty of sites to see, things to do, and bars to hop. I have lived in or near big cities before and I can say that I'm fairly satisfied with where I am currently living. I am not in want of anything. However, if you are looking for the demographics, hopping night life, and eclecticism found in, say, an LA, SF, DC, Chicago, NY, or Miami, then KCMO might not be the best fit in terms of location. KCMO and KCKS, as Midwestern cities, tend to swing more toward the conservative side politically. They are, after all, in red-state territory, if that is a consideration for you. This fact annoys me from time to time, but it isn't a big deal at the end of the day.

Like I said before, location should be a more minor consideration. Your education should come first.
 
i found out about my CCOM acceptance today. As of right now, it is between CCOM and Western for me. I am going to withdraw from KCUMB as soon as I get CCOM paperwork.
 
i took a quick glance and didnt see any mention but i couldve missed it, but kcumb has a brand new research building too
 
Honestly, you can get to the same place from any of these schools, so there's not any clear right answer. Also, don't judge the school on the people you interviewed with -- it's not necessarily indicative of what your class is going to be like. Personally I'd go with KCUMB or COMP because I think CCOM's curriculum would kill me. And both COMP and CCOM are in the way out suburbs, so I don't think they necessarily trump KCUMB for location.

And don't pay any attention to random SDN rankings.
 
Doctor Bagel said:
Honestly, you can get to the same place from any of these schools, so there's not any clear right answer. Also, don't judge the school on the people you interviewed with -- it's not necessarily indicative of what your class is going to be like. Personally I'd go with KCUMB or COMP because I think CCOM's curriculum would kill me. And both COMP and CCOM are in the way out suburbs, so I don't think they necessarily trump KCUMB for location.

And don't pay any attention to random SDN rankings.
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what is so bad about CCOM curriculum?
 
stmclovin said:
what is so bad about CCOM curriculum?
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they have probably one of the worst testing systems...essentially you have 1-2 tests a week on average...not counting the first few weeks of course....usually on mondays and fridays.


so ..it all sounds nice and dandy.....that is until you start just studying for one class for the exam coming up...and then you neglect your other work...so by midterms...you are in a vicious cycle of just studying for the test coming up instead of keeping up with all course work and that is never a good thing.....

also they have individual tests...1 test for anatomy, 1 for physio, etc, while other schools just combine the tests into 1 big test

of course then another a system is blocks..where you have individual exams for all ure classes...but at one time

CCOM also has a reputation of having one of the most rigorous basic science years...in terms of the number of tests...the number of lecture hours, and of course, the testing schedule.
 
Yeah, the frequent testing is the biggest problem, imo. While most students supposedly don't go to class there, I have heard they have a very old school approach to lecture hours and labs, where you would be stuck in school all day if you did want to go to lecture and you have lab (not just anatomy or OMM) frequently.
 
yeah thats why i didnt even apply to ccom, i didnt like their structure at all.

i did get interviewed and accepted by both kcumb and western, i felt kcumb was the superior of those two for pretty much every category except location
 
Syncope82 said:
they have probably one of the worst testing systems...essentially you have 1-2 tests a week on average...not counting the first few weeks of course....usually on mondays and fridays.


so ..it all sounds nice and dandy.....that is until you start just studying for one class for the exam coming up...and then you neglect your other work...so by midterms...you are in a vicious cycle of just studying for the test coming up instead of keeping up with all course work and that is never a good thing.....

also they have individual tests...1 test for anatomy, 1 for physio, etc, while other schools just combine the tests into 1 big test

of course then another a system is blocks..where you have individual exams for all ure classes...but at one time

CCOM also has a reputation of having one of the most rigorous basic science years...in terms of the number of tests...the number of lecture hours, and of course, the testing schedule.
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Well, isn't an advantage of having more frequent tests? It will keep you summarizing stuff more often. I think I like making more small steps than giant ones. It is awefully hard to to study for one giant test.

I was also surprized that CCOM has only like 78% first and second choice match. Also. 92% step I pass rate is not as impressive as KCUMB's 98%. At KCUMB, director of admissions told us their students get 88-90% match into their first choice. That was impressive.
 
stmclovin said:
Well, isn't an advantage of having more frequent tests? It will keep you summarizing stuff more often. I think I like making more small steps than giant ones. It is awefully hard to to study for one giant test.

I was also surprized that CCOM has only like 78% first and second choice match. At KCUMB, director of admissions told us their students get 88-90% match into their first choice. That was impressive.
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well one would think that...but it doesn't turn out to be that way...why? because most students succumb into the cycle of studying just for the test coming up and neglecting all else....then start studying for the next test....by doing this you are not learning anything..you are just memorizing...testing it..and that's it...there's no actual learning involved
Doctor Bagel said:
Yeah, the frequent testing is the biggest problem, imo. While most students supposedly don't go to class there, I have heard they have a very old school approach to lecture hours and labs, where you would be stuck in school all day if you did want to go to lecture and you have lab (not just anatomy or OMM) frequently.
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Even their lectures are old schooled.....they give you a packet..and you are expected to memorize it....but there's no organization..for example, anatomy...the lectures are literally a whole page with no indents, paragraphs or any sort of organization..just a jumble mumble of words....i've seen it my self.

Also, for some classes, it is almost impossible to find out how you did on the test....so much for learning from mistakes.
 
PokerDoc said:
yeah thats why i didnt even apply to ccom, i didnt like their structure at all.

i did get interviewed and accepted by both kcumb and western, i felt kcumb was the superior of those two for pretty much every category except location
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lol, except the food at KCUMB sucked big time. When we were interviewing it was either a burger or dried up hicken with cheap powder-made mashed potatoes. I was impressed by KCUMB though nevertheless. They got a lot of space and technology in there.
 
Syncope82 said:
Even their lectures are old schooled.....they give you a packet..and you are expected to memorize it....but there's no organization..for example, anatomy...the lectures are literally a whole page with no indents, paragraphs or any sort of organization..just a jumble mumble of words....i've seen it my self.
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that's probably noteservice (or at CCOM professors type it themselves, i do not remeber). Noteservice notes always look like a lot of text. They are still pretty helpful.
They also get powerpoints (which I was not clear but I got an impression that students have to make theor own copies)...
 
stmclovin said:
that's probably noteservice (or at CCOM professors type it themselves, i do not remeber). Noteservice notes always look like a lot of text. They are still pretty helpful.
They also get powerpoints (which I was not clear but I got an impression that students have to make theor own copies)...
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there is no note service at ccom, profs give you the packets your you buy it from the bookstore

so the profs create it...regardless.....it is a lame excuse for crappy notes
 
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