Undergrad College and Med School Admissions

[mikhl]

Hey, I realize that this topic has already been beaten to death, but I just want to ask some questions specific to my situation. Please excuse my wordiness and grammar in advance. I’m a current high school junior and am exploring college options. I come from a fairly well to do family (I am not eligible for any type of financial aid), and my college fund will sit at around 150k by the time I graduate. Based on my standardized test scores (35 act), I am guardenteed a full scholarship w/ room and board at my state college; the college has a top 40 med school according to USNews. I am also looking at private universities, like WashU and Duke (cost of attendance is over 240k for 4 years). This leaves two possible scenarios:
1. I attend a private college and take on debt to cover the tuition. I then take out more loans to pay for med school. This would leave me a couple 100k in debt.
2. I attend the public university on a full ride. My father says that by the time I graduate from college he will be able to fill my college fund with enough money to pay for the totality of medical school tuition. I would graduate with no debt.

I have shadowed a large number of surgeons and physicians in town and they all recommend option 2, but then again they all attended this college minus one. Is the prestige really worth it for undergrad? What do you guys think?

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[Phile98]

They are wise to recommend option 2. Take the deal with no debt.
The prestige difference is a very temporary thing. You enjoy it for 4 years. However, you will enjoy no debt for the rest of your life.
I know it’s a hard decision because WashU is just so dang nice (south 40 is a paradise), but put yourself in the best financial position long-term.

 

[lumya]

My family was not in nearly as good of a situation as yours is, but my parents made enough for me to not qualify for most financial aid. I chose to go to a state school on a full ride over some other schools I got into and let me just say, I am grateful to the high school counselor who told me to do this.

You never know if your family’s financial situation will change and there’s always the chance you don’t get in the first time you apply/you choose to take a gap year and you don’t want to have looming monthly payments if you can help it.

 

[jurisburger]

I would also add that if you know with 100% certainty you're going to shoot for med school then it may be in your favor to go to your state school as opposed to participate in the hunger games that is the premed academic decathlon at one of those private schools. I went to one and it was depressing to see so many students not make it through the weedout (i.e. subpar science GPAs) who probably would have succeeded had they gone to a less competitive program. Obviously not saying state schools are a walk in the park but I wager it will be easier getting As at your state school than Duke/WashU.

Edit: If I could do it over again knowing I would stick with premed I would have chosen my state school. Food for thought

 

[WedgeDawg]

Depends on what your goals are. If you just want to go to medical school and don't really care about prestige (which matters for certain goals but not for others), then take the state school and don't look back.

If you are set on academic medicine / really want to do a high prestige specialty OR much more importantly, may not be totally set on your goal of medicine and want to keep your options totally open, then you might want to consider the top tier private school option. Obviously your goals for when you're in your 30s are totally in flux and can't be predicted as a 16 year old high schooler, but these are things to think about.

One thing I want to say is that going to your state school does not preclude you at all from going to top tier medical schools. My top 10 private medical school has a bunch of people from Harvard Yale Stanford, sure, but as equally as many if not more from flagship state schools who are at absolutely no disadvantage academically. A killer MCAT/GPA + strong ECs from any school can make you a competitive applicant for any medical school.

That being said, the best way to to be the most competitive possible for a top tier med school is to have that killer MCAT/GPA + ECs from a top tier undergrad.

My advice is go where you think you'll be happiest and where you think you can thrive. Apply to a wide variety of places and do your best to attend the admitted students weekends and see where you feel like you can fit. That will ultimately give you your best chance of success. Finances are also important to take into account, and coming out of medical school debt free is not at all insignificant.

In the end, only you can decide if its worth it. I made the decision to attend an Ivy over my state schools and personally it was the right decision for me. Many others have made opposite decisions and for them that may have been the right decision. You will find people in both places who met their goals and those who didn't. So much of it is dependent on you and your relationship with your environment. Apply to all of them, see where you get in, and evaluate your options, your goals, and the tradeoffs once you have acceptances in hand.

Best of luck.

Finally, moving to hSDN

 

[mikhl]

I would go to state school. You are going to attend UG school, why do you care about ranking of the med school of this university? You are not guaranteed a sit at that med school, just because you went to their UG. 100k to your future debt is a lot of money, with interest it would be 200k, you could buy a house for this money. You are just in high school, there are 5+ years before you will actually get into medical school (if you will), at this age interests change dramatically (when I was 16 I was dreaming about police officer at K-9 unit job). Don't get yourself into a 6 figure debt at that age, this is really bad financial decision. Still shocked that kids are allowed to make such decisions... When you will be 20-21 your world view going to change dramatically, usually at that age many people change their majors, it is good that you already know you want to be a physician, but don't rush into huge debt without any real benefits, except peace of paper with school name on it

I mentioned the med school rank as it pertains to the quality of medical research, etc. that is done on campus

 

[mikhl]

Depends on what your goals are. If you just want to go to medical school and don't really care about prestige (which matters for certain goals but not for others), then take the state school and don't look back.

If you are set on academic medicine / really want to do a high prestige specialty OR much more importantly, may not be totally set on your goal of medicine and want to keep your options totally open, then you might want to consider the top tier private school option. Obviously your goals for when you're in your 30s are totally in flux and can't be predicted as a 16 year old high schooler, but these are things to think about.

One thing I want to say is that going to your state school does not preclude you at all from going to top tier medical schools. My top 10 private medical school has a bunch of people from Harvard Yale Stanford, sure, but as equally as many if not more from flagship state schools who are at absolutely no disadvantage academically. A killer MCAT/GPA + strong ECs from any school can make you a competitive applicant for any medical school.

That being said, the best way to to be the most competitive possible for a top tier med school is to have that killer MCAT/GPA + ECs from a top tier undergrad.

My advice is go where you think you'll be happiest and where you think you can thrive. Apply to a wide variety of places and do your best to attend the admitted students weekends and see where you feel like you can fit. That will ultimately give you your best chance of success. Finances are also important to take into account, and coming out of medical school debt free is not at all insignificant.

In the end, only you can decide if its worth it. I made the decision to attend an Ivy over my state schools and personally it was the right decision for me. Many others have made opposite decisions and for them that may have been the right decision. You will find people in both places who met their goals and those who didn't. So much of it is dependent on you and your relationship with your environment. Apply to all of them, see where you get in, and evaluate your options, your goals, and the tradeoffs once you have acceptances in hand.

Best of luck.

Finally, moving to hSDN

If at some point in my life I decide to go the acedemic route, would my undergrad restrain me in anyway despite my medical school of choice (it is a tier 1 research university)

 

[WedgeDawg]

If at some point in my life I decide to go the acedemic route, would my undergrad restrain me in anyway despite my medical school of choice (it is a tier 1 research university)

100% no

 

[Gilakend]

I would take the state school money and run. I attended a low tier state school for UG with an unranked med school and have had similar cycles to my friends that attend T20s. I also got an II at a T10 med school that everyone told me wouldn't consider me because they were too elitist.

I definitely think UG prestige matters, but it gets blown out of proportion.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Michael Longaker played college basketball at Michigan State with Magic Johnson. He now has his own lab at Stanford Med School.
https://news.stanford.edu/news/2002/march13/longaker.html
Except for his bruised ego while trying to guard Magic, I don't think Michigan State hurt Longaker much.
http://bulletin.facs.org/2015/04/profiles-in-surgical-research-michael-t-longaker-md-mba-facs/

 

[LucidSplash]

Go. To. Your. State. School.

I am going to use myself as a real-world example here.

Perspective. I am currently a PGY-9. If you’re not yet versed in what this means, it means I am in my 9th year of post medical school training. I’ll be done finally in June.

I went to a private undergrad, but I had the opposite situation you have, where my EFC was zero, so I had a fairly large need-based scholarship. I graduated with about 20k in loans, not terrible considering the cost of tuition. It would have been about the same at my state school based on the financial aid packages I got.

I took 3 years off and worked in biotech before going back to Med school. I was able to pay off 10k of my undergrad loans (about half) during that time.

I went to my state medical school. I graduated with about 205k in Med school loans. I consolidated those with my undergrad 10k.

While I have been in training, I have been in income-based repayment. This means that my payment is calculated based on my tax returns. Right now, I make about 65k/year as a fellow. My loan payment this year is about $450/month. This doesn’t even cover the interest. I can’t afford to make a non-income-based repayment, because the number is about 66% of my takehome monthly salary (post-tax). So, that means that during training, I have been accruing interest. Over 70k interest. This is currently non-capitalizing, but once I finish training, it will capitalize during my first year as an attending. The included image is a screenshot from my actual FedLoan account.

I am starting my physician career with the equivalent of a mortgage on my brain. Now, my situation is on the extreme end in terms of training length, but given you have no idea yet what specialty you’ll want to pursue, you should consider this a possibility for you.

I will make enough to pay this off with time. But I can not stress enough how much different my outlook would be if I was graduating essentially debt-free, like you might have the option to do.

Take. The. Free. Ride.

 

[capriccio]

PICK OPTION 2. I attended a state UG on a full ride and it has been one of the best things that's happened to me, both financially and for personal reasons. And if you work hard throughout undergrad and craft a great application, your UG's prestige isn't going to matter in any significant way—most of the IIs in my sig are from T20 schools.

Obviously, try to research and visit the schools and figure out where you best fit, but a full ride offer should be very, very hard to walk away from.