Unfilled Spots

[106174]

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any info on which path programs did not fill?

 

[Vaderize]

any info on which path programs did not fill?

There are currently 27 unfilled programs.

 

[branlove]

If interested in the unfilled spots go to the ERAS & Match thread and under Unfilled 2007 there is a list to a link with the Pathology open slots.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

OMFG!!! What is this world coming to? How did these AP/CP programs not fill? 😱

http://www.usmleforum.com/files/forum/2007/4/169850.php

Northwestern McGaw/ENH-IL
Pathology 2090300C0 3001621412 3 0 3

Barnes-Jewish Hosp-MO
Anat/Clin & Anat Path 1353300C1* 3002811193 7 5 2

Hosp of the Univ of PA
Pathology 1628300C0* 3004121314 8 6 2

U Washington Affil Hosps
Pathology/Anat & Clin 1918300C0 3005421367 6 4 2

 

[quant]

First of all, is it legal to post the unfilled lists?

In any case, the list makes for VERY interesting reading!

 

[quant]

Wow, shocked to hear that Northwestern filled 0 out of their 3 spots and WashU only filled 5 out of their 7. What is this world coming to??? 😱

Northwestern kicked out my app....
I know it is a case of sour grapes...🙂 🙂
But very sweet at the same time..😀

 

[b&ierstiefel]

First of all, is it legal to post the unfilled lists?

In any case, the list makes for VERY interesting reading!

Beats me...I guess we'll find out if my post gets deleted.🙂

 

[quant]

UPenn and U Wash is a shocker....

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Northwestern kicked out my app....
I know it is a case of sour grapes...🙂 🙂
But very sweet at the same time..😀

Did you apply this year? I assume you found out that you matched on Black Monday?

 

[quant]

Beats me...I guess we'll find out if my post gets deleted.🙂

Wassup my friend....You are hitting vegas soon I presume?

I INTEND to contribute to your very interesting research thread, but got NO freaking time on my hands...soon though...

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Wassup my friend....You are hitting vegas soon I presume?

I INTEND to contribute to your very interesting research thread, but got NO freaking time on my hands...soon though...

Counting down...2 days.

 

[quant]

Did you apply this year? I assume you found out that you matched on Black Monday?

Oui mon ami...
But after being through the match THREE times...First as an observer, second as someone who withdrew, I m kind of cool about the whole thing now.

 

[branlove]

quite a few shockers if I say so myself!

 

[beary]

Oui mon ami...
But after being through the match THREE times...First as an observer, second as someone who withdrew, I m kind of cool about the whole things now.

Hey quant!

I didn't see your ROL (may have just missed it) but I hope we will have you at U Mich next year. 😀

 

[veo1]

OMFG!!! What is this world coming to? How did these AP/CP programs not fill? 😱

http://www.usmleforum.com/files/forum/2007/4/169850.php

Northwestern McGaw/ENH-IL
Pathology 2090300C0 3001621412 3 0 3

Barnes-Jewish Hosp-MO
Anat/Clin & Anat Path 1353300C1* 3002811193 7 5 2

Hosp of the Univ of PA
Pathology 1628300C0* 3004121314 8 6 2

U Washington Affil Hosps
Pathology/Anat & Clin 1918300C0 3005421367 6 4 2

I believe this is the Northwestern in Evanston. If so, that's not much of a surprise.

 

[quant]

Hey quant!

I didn't see your ROL (may have just missed it) but I hope we will have you at U Mich next year. 😀

Hey Beary
How are you doing lady? I have been lying low for sometime now and getting other stuff done. How is the residency going on?
Am looking forward to where I ll end up....

 

[Zuwie]

message deleted.

 

[subtropicmd]

wake dissed me too. but that is the only one that i see up there that was on my original list.
brigham & womens was a surprise to me.

 

[mlw03]

any thoughts on how we applicants for 2008 can use this information (including the full list, when it becomes available) for our applications next year? for example, UUtah went 0/2 it appears and that's a place i'm considering next year. is this good for me? bad? does it matter at all?

and yes, i'm really surprised to see some of the unfilleds.

 

[quant]

any thoughts on how we applicants for 2008 can use this information (including the full list, when it becomes available) for our applications next year? for example, UUtah went 0/2 it appears and that's a place i'm considering next year. is this good for me? bad? does it matter at all?

and yes, i'm really surprised to see some of the unfilleds.

I think I'm qualified to answer this since I withdrew from last year's match and reapplied this year.
From the last year's unfilled list I do not remember even ONE single program being in the same situation this year (i.e., being unfilled)
On the interview trail, I attended a couple of mid-range programs which went unfilled last year and I could discern that the programs were trying extra hard to sell the program.
Which means, if you are an AMG (I am an IMG) and you express your interest in these program adequately enough, I think your odds of making into these programs are better since I m sure no program would like to be a part of the scramble.
Of course, this is contingent on the fact that you put your best effort in the first place anyway.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

wake dissed me too. but that is the only one that i see up there that was on my original list.
brigham & womens was a surprise to me.

Yeah, the CP only program didn't fill according to that link. Considering it's CP, I'm not all that surprised.

Kinda reminds of back in the day when MGH didn't fill it's CP spots...people were awestruck. But again, it's CP only 🙂

 

[b&ierstiefel]

any thoughts on how we applicants for 2008 can use this information (including the full list, when it becomes available) for our applications next year? for example, UUtah went 0/2 it appears and that's a place i'm considering next year. is this good for me? bad? does it matter at all?

and yes, i'm really surprised to see some of the unfilleds.

It doesn't mean much unless this happens repeatedly in consecutive years...then I'd get suspicious.

For instance, Michigan last year didn't fill 3 of their 6 spots. Does that mean that it's a red flag program? No. Michigan's program is quite strong, actually. What happened last year was that they had a new chair...maybe that contributed to that...yaah posted on this in the past so defer to him on that one. And Michigan filled this year...so ends that debate.

Wash U didn't fill...does that mean that they suck? Absolutely not...the training there in AP is quite strong as well. Penn has solid AP training as well and really good CP training.

So all in all, I wouldn't make much of a big deal out of these aberrancies. Just apply to programs and see them for yourselves before jumping to any conclusions.

 

[deleted113029]

based on my visits to WashU and UPenn, i'm not surprised that they didn't fill. also they're in cities that aren't that attractive.

UWash was a shocker as Bierstiefel stated.

Brigham CP only was a little surprising since CP is so research oriented. Oh well.

Yay for Michigan. No surprise it filled.

 

[CameronFrye]

any thoughts on how we applicants for 2008 can use this information (including the full list, when it becomes available) for our applications next year? for example, UUtah went 0/2 it appears and that's a place i'm considering next year. is this good for me? bad? does it matter at all?

and yes, i'm really surprised to see some of the unfilleds.

Utah didn't fill their CP only spots.

 

[yaah]

Last year michigan didn't rank enough people, didn't interview enough people, and didn't really run the interview days very well. This year things were organized and it was an easy match.

I don't think it's illegal to post the empty programs, by now if they are filling their spots through the scramble they're probably full anyway.

CP only spots often don't fill - programs are only going to fill them with people who are qualified (researchers, likely) - CP only spots are not a backdoor into residency in a good program for the unqualified. Programs would like to fill them, but they usually aren't filling a necessary need like AP residents do in terms of day to day workload.

It happens every year, that people read too much into things as to why certain programs don't fill. There are lots of things that can happen, from not interviewing enough to bad luck to poor organization to just plain randomness.

 

[quant]

I agree with yaah,
I guess it is normal for some programs not fill up from time to time. Michigan's interviews were very well run this year. And it filled naturally.
So I guess the same will apply to programs which dint fill this year, So if you have a program which you really like which dint fill this year, I m sure they will be more thorough about their interviewing process next year.
And that includes probably a longer ranking list too.
That s my guess

 

[Neddy]

My theory on Penn would be the upcoming rearrangement of surg path signout systems - probably scared away a lot of folks who would have ranked them highly in other years.

I'm surprised about Yale - New Haven is a MUCH better place to live than people realize, and it's a strong program.

 

[dwil75]

Does anyone know anything about the University of Oklahoma's program, which has one spot that didn't fill?

 

[Prairie]

I'm surprised about Yale - New Haven is a MUCH better place to live than people realize, and it's a strong program.[/QUOTE]


I'm pretty sure that it's our "CP only" spot that didn't fill (which seemed to be a common theme at many programs this year). And I agree, we have a very strong program. 🙂

 

[Neddy]

I'm pretty sure that it's our "CP only" spot that didn't fill (which seemed to be a common theme at many programs this year). And I agree, we have a very strong program. 🙂

Actually, knowing Yale Lab Med, I'm a little surprised about that too!

 

[Formalin]

As someone who's a Penn resident, I can tell you there are good reasons why we didn't fill. And it's not going to change anytime soon.

 

[Neddy]

As someone who's a Penn resident, I can tell you there are good reasons why we didn't fill. And it's not going to change anytime soon.

Wow, you must be one of those bitter residents I heard so much about at my interview. Your program director, chairman, and co-residents are refreshingly honest.

 

[anencephalic]

I'm pretty sure that it's our "CP only" spot that didn't fill (which seemed to be a common theme at many programs this year). And I agree, we have a very strong program. 🙂

No bias there, eh?😉

Maybe I'll be seeing you in July...😀

 

[PathOne]

It's natural to look at the match-complications from the applicant's perspective, but it's not much easier from the other side. You want to interview and match what to consider the strongest applicants, but also have to accept that other programs will do the same, and thus risk loosing out.
On the other hand, you don't want to interview/rank all applicants, because there's always going to be some who would be a problem having around for four years.
Thirdly, you would obviously want to try to avoid unfilled spots, as they're a pain, and somewhat embarassing, as this thread confirms.
So it's a bit of a puzzle to do program rankings. And, as other posters have noted, it also really comes down to coincidence, planning, experience etc etc.

Personally, I'd be very careful about concluding that a unfilled program is subpar. Could easily just signify, that programs have very firm feelings about who to rank. (UWash, WashU, Yale/BWH CP comes to mind in this regard).
True subpar programs could just interview and rank every applicant, and end up with somebody who's not strong, or a bad match for the program.

I am not at all surprised that weird things happen when you have to fill some 22,000 residency spots over a few months. But I really wouldn't spend to much time analyzing exactly how or why they happened.

 

[dermpathlover]

Beats me...I guess we'll find out if my post gets deleted.🙂

OR IF THE ERAS POLICE KICK DOWN YOUR DOOR AND DRAG YOU KICKING AND SCREAMING TO THE JOINT.

What city, county, state or federal government would bother to pass a law making it illegal to post this information? Asking if it is legal is kind of a silly question.

 

[BeastNovot]

Wow, you must be one of those bitter residents I heard so much about at my interview. Your program director, chairman, and co-residents are refreshingly honest.

What is this? Way to take a shot at resident you don't even know, who is in a situation you don't know. Unless, of course, you think the program director and chairman gave you the "inside scoop"...

 

[quant]

Asking if it is legal is kind of a silly question.

http://usmle.net/match/

Kindly refer to the red lettered message at the beginning of page.
The reason for my silliness. I imagine there is a similar wording somewhere on NRMP website.

 

[Tool61]

As someone who's a Penn resident, I can tell you there are good reasons why we didn't fill. And it's not going to change anytime soon.

As another Penn resident, I'm NOT surprised that our program didn't fill. Way too many issues! And furthermore, Philadelphia is an angry miserable city, so who would want to come here to train?

 

[SOSTER]

Can anybody clarify on the issues at Penn 😕

 

[Tool61]

Wow, you must be one of those bitter residents I heard so much about at my interview. Your program director, chairman, and co-residents are refreshingly honest.

Wow. You must be an expert on Penn's program after one day of interviewing so please continue with your comments!

 

[Formalin]

I'm not sure if I'm one of those "bitter residents" that the PD and Chair mentioned, but if I were you, I'd think twice before you start believing one side of any story, especially when it comes from people who have an interest in selling the place; I hope you're not that gullible in other aspects of your life.

 

[SOSTER]

serioulsy what are the issues with Penn?????
Pretty please😀

 

[b&ierstiefel]

serioulsy what are the issues with Penn?????
Pretty please😀

Please do a search...Penn has been discussed in other threads. Don't expect much in general...people can get in trouble when they talk smack about their own programs.

 

[sequela]

as someone who interviewed at penn i can say this much about why they may have not filled: they are undergoing a change from general to subspecialty sign-out and at the time of interviews, there was not a single person who could speak to what surg path was actually gonna look like (ie # months of req surg path, the ins/outs of the schedule, etc).

as an applicant, it makes you kinda nervous in that no one can give you a real description of what your day would be like. you're not clear on the kinks that need to be worked out and you can rest assure that your time there will be that "transition" period (which could be really painful...or not)...and that made me kinda nervous.

this is not to say that the new system will not have an easy transition, it's just that for an applicant, it's not the most ideal circumstances.

penn has a great reputation in pathology and that is not going to change just because the system does. nevertheless, there is going to be some sort of transition period.

if you really love philly or are dead set on penn then maybe you'd be willing to be a bit more adventurous.

from my point of view: given their large volume of specimens, the logistics/potential kinks of their system (which are not yet worked out or even realized) will most certainly affect your daily experience. i personally don't like getting into something i don't know anything about...esp when it pertains to the most demanding part of pathology training.

anyway, i think this may have been a turn off to applicants.

in a fews yrs, this will not even be an issue.

 

[LADoc00]

dbl post...this board's hosting sucks

 

[LADoc00]

Yeah, the CP only program didn't fill according to that link. Considering it's CP, I'm not all that surprised.

Kinda reminds of back in the day when MGH didn't fill it's CP spots...people were awestruck. But again, it's CP only 🙂

MGH had a run of nearly a decade without filling...many programs did. Hell, they had a decade of training only a handful of AMGs total. The only programs in the whole US that continually filled during the dark era were Stanford, UCSF, BWH and maybe Hopkins.

Unfilled slots are meaningless anyway, it could simply mean that these programs set the bar high enough applicants couldnt reach it...and for that I congratulate them.

No program should fill IMO, there 200% too many pathology slots to begin with.

Actually, you should WANT to go to a good program that didnt fill, means they have some scrap of integrity left and arent interested in just filling up the quota on meat cutters.

Penn, UW and WashU are redeemed in my eyes.

 

[Neddy]

What is this? Way to take a shot at resident you don't even know, who is in a situation you don't know. Unless, of course, you think the program director and chairman gave you the "inside scoop"...

OK, in retrospect, this was a foolish thing to say, mainly because we have no way of knowing whether the people claiming to be Penn residents on this forum acually are. All the residents I met on my interview day seemed like bright, happy people, but the odd thing was how they kept making references to their unhappy co-residents, as did members of the faculty. I actually liked Penn enough to rank them highly (I might end up there, so I definately don't want to come off as dissing the program or the residents - I know zip about who is right and who is wrong). But as for referring to Formalin as "bitter", I think his comments speak for themselves - I'm not claiming to know the reason he feels that way.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

OK, in retrospect, this was a foolish thing to say, mainly because we have no way of knowing whether the people claiming to be Penn residents on this forum acually are. All the residents I met on my interview day seemed like bright, happy people, but the odd thing was how they kept making references to their unhappy co-residents, as did members of the faculty. I actually liked Penn enough to rank them highly (I might end up there, so I definately don't want to come off as dissing the program or the residents - I know zip about who is right and who is wrong). But as for referring to Formalin as "bitter", I think his comments speak for themselves - I'm not claiming to know the reason he feels that way.

Wow, things must have really changed in the past few years of people are getting those kind of vibes from their interview visits this year. Seriously, when I applied, the big issue was the opening up of a bunch of new OR's. Nobody was able to give me a straight answer as to how that would affect the resident work load on surg path but that was it. Everyone I met were pretty cool and I ranked Penn highly too.

 

[yaah]

Same here, I thought Penn was organized well when I was there, I didn't really like the way they had residents rotate through surg path (kind of made it sound like less exposure than you needed) and I didn't like the city much, but the residents I met were universally the happiest I met and the staff were pretty together too. But it might be similar to what happened here last year, there were a lot of changes in the program that were going to be for the best, and some new faculty, but change scares people off slightly. Even if it is enough to have them rank a program down one or two slots, it can matter when you are only interviewing really good candidates.

 

[seacucumber]

Wow, you must be one of those bitter residents I heard so much about at my interview. Your program director, chairman, and co-residents are refreshingly honest.

There are a few things you never say..."I told you so", "your Mom's hot" and "you must be one of those bitter residents". As a bitter resident myself, I feel particularly qualified to call your ass out. You have to realize that by shooting straight with you, this resident is putting himself at risk for punitive action. His motivation is one of justice, as he will ultimately be the one suffering when they don't match. Listen to yourself...you're going to back the program director and chairman's based on your assessment of their honesty? I just swallowed a morsel of puke. These two neutral parties who have no vested financial interest in filling? Filling with a team player like yourself? Let me guess...they were very impressed with you and promise to rank you quite highly? They brought you into their fold? You & honest Abe against the bitter underlings? Come on, man. This is a game with real currency. This "bitter resident" respects you enough to put himself in harms way & you side with your new pals? Good luck, doctor.