UPenn decisions

[Stolenspatulas]

I don't know the exact reason for the delay, but I do know a little about the penn admissions process from a first-year that I know that does student interviews. They interview like 800 students, give out ~220 acceptances, and have ~150 spots, so it is a lot of work to weed out 70% of the inteviewees. Plus, their adcom is very large (something like 25 people, made up of both students and faculty) and each candidate gets reviewed by multiple adcom members and ranked. Then the rankings get submitted, tabulated, discussed, etc. So it takes a long time. Pure conjecture, but I'd guess some adcom members are missing their deadlines to submit their rankings and so the whole process is delayed. Doctors are busy. I don't think it has anything to do with how students are treated. By all accounts, students are treated very very well at Penn, which is why students there often choose it over other top schools.

Old Boy is a friggin sweet movie.

March 26th is so damn far away.

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[crimsonkid85]

I don't know the exact reason for the delay, but I do know a little about the penn admissions process from a first-year that I know that does student interviews.

i am shocked that 1st years would be allowed to interview. i am aware that there are plenty of 3rd and 4th years who interview, and MAYBE a 2nd year, but a 1st? they're only one year older than we are!

 

[Neuronix]

By all accounts

I wouldn't say "by all accounts", I've definately seen and heard some $@%$ed up stuff during my time here. Before you ask, I'm not going into any of it on SDN. That being said, the older I get and the more I talk to others at other medical schools, the more I'm convinced that these issues are endemic to medicine in general. The administration is there to look out for itself primarily. If the students ideas/issues jive with theirs, they will say "Students motivated this change!" If not, too bad. A petition with 75% of the class's signatures won't change anything.

That being said, I agree with the applicants. It does reflect poorly that they can't get their admissions done on time. But, as others pointed out, nobody is going to say that to them directly and Penn is never going to have trouble filling its class regardless. The same process happens year in and year out. The number of applicants doesn't change a whole lot from year to year. Being one of the latest schools to send out invitations and then pushing that date back is pretty sad.

As far as students who interview, most of the students that interview are first years and first semester second years.

 

[old_boy]

.

 

[crimsonkid85]

i was interviewed by a first year at my penn interview. it was a little odd. he was younger than me! but then again, i'm old.

yea--there's something to be said about the maturity of an interviewer, especially when they are judging someone who is essentially their peer! i'm not saying that 1st years can't be mature, but i definately don't think they have the breadth of knowledge or experience interacting with medical school applicants to relate to or perhaps understand each students' motivations for pursuing medicine as would, say, a faculty member who has been practicing for 20 years. maybe their interview doesn't count as much?

 

[foofish]

i was interviewed by a first year at my penn interview. it was a little odd. he was younger than me! but then again, i'm old.

Yeah....I had a first year, and while not a bad interview, it wasn't my best. But I think any oddness was more because it was my first (and only) student interview. *sigh*

 

[Neuronix]

No worries, 90%+ of the interviewed applicants will score the top marks (1-2 out of 6, 1 being highest) on the interview forms the interviewers fill out. It would be silly to split hairs between 1, 1.5, and 2, so they usually don't bother. Many reviewers just give everyone a 1 out of "Oh, what do I know? He/She seems nice". It's more of a screen for those few who have really amazing stories that may have been overlooked or for that small percentage of weirdos.

Think about if you started interviewing med school applicants now. Like you said, first years really have little more experience or knowledge than you do. What would you say? How would you screen?

 

[zimmie256]

I disagree. One reason I am so excited about attending Penn in the fall was because of the support of the administration. The administrators at Penn are incredibly supportive and that is one reason I decided to apply EDP. This sentiment is also echoed by the many students I know who are currently students. I remember during my interview, a student walking by and asked if I was interviewing. I replied yes, and he remarked, "They spoil us here".

Penn is fantastic and I hope to see you all as my classmates in August!

That's wonderful to hear! That's exactly the kind of reassurance I was hoping for... What can I say, all this waiting has made me suspicious... As I said, I got a good vibe on my interview day, but it's hard to know if that's representative. It's great that the administration is so supportive of its students, and I hope I get the chance to experience it for myself! Congrats on your early acceptance by the way!

 

[foofish]

Think about if you started interviewing med school applicants now. Like you said, first years really have little more experience or knowledge than you do. What would you say? How would you screen?

Heh. Yeah, I'm not as anti-first year as others seem....but then again I do college interviews so on a personal note it's not as weird (although that's as an alum, and the difference between a high school senior and a college grad is actually much bigger than I had expected).

In terms of vibe, Penn's administration definitely gave one of the friendliest and most supportive impressions among the schools I interviewed at.

 

[zimmie256]

Yeah....I had a first year, and while not a bad interview, it wasn't my best. But I think any oddness was more because it was my first (and only) student interview. *sigh*

I had the same exact experience with my student interviewer, foofish! It definitely felt a bit more awkward than other interviews and was also my first and only student interview. Of course with all this time to wait since I interviewed I've been re-analyzing and stressing over that interview... Sigh... At least my faculty interview went very well (as far as I know). And as Neuronix said, a not-the-best student interview will hopefully not be a big differentiator anyway...

 

[Stolenspatulas]

No worries, 90%+ of the interviewed applicants will score the top marks (1-2 out of 6, 1 being highest) on the interview forms the interviewers fill out. It would be silly to split hairs between 1, 1.5, and 2, so they usually don't bother. Many reviewers just give everyone a 1 out of "Oh, what do I know? He/She seems nice". It's more of a screen for those few who have really amazing stories that may have been overlooked or for that small percentage of weirdos.

Think about if you started interviewing med school applicants now. Like you said, first years really have little more experience or knowledge than you do. What would you say? How would you screen?

wait, so your saying that student interviews arent really that important at penn... that they are used to just weed out the weirdos?

im not sure how student interviews can help applicants (i can see how they can hurt). if everyone (90% or so) score 1, 1.5, 2... and an interviewer really likes an interviewee and scores him/her a 1.... then that impact of a ''1'' is not really that strong is it?

in the adcomms eyes if a 1 or 2 are very similar, than there is no benefit really of an awesome student interview (theres only a chance to ruin your application altogether by getting a 5 or 6 or what have you).

Im suprised the adcomm at Penn is so big. They don't have a secondary to look at, and they only have 2 interviews (one of which seems to be undervalued).

 

[foofish]

I had the same exact experience with my student interviewer, foofish! It definitely felt a bit more awkward than other interviews and was also my first and only student interview. Of course with all this time to wait since I interviewed I've been re-analyzing and stressing over that interview... Sigh... At least my faculty interview went very well (as far as I know). And as Neuronix said, a not-the-best student interview will hopefully not be a big differentiator anyway...

Exactly the same....great faculty interview, and ??? student interview. I've also been reanalyzing, and it's tougher because it's one of those things where it could have just been me feeling awkward, or it could really have been both of us...who knows! Ah well, back to trying not to stress about it, and to keep attempting to develop powers of telepathy and suggestion (to urge Penn and other schools to wrap it up already!).

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Exactly the same....great faculty interview, and ??? student interview. I've also been reanalyzing, and it's tougher because it's one of those things where it could have just been me feeling awkward, or it could really have been both of us...who knows! Ah well, back to trying not to stress about it, and to keep attempting to develop powers of telepathy and suggestion (to urge Penn and other schools to wrap it up already!).

Same here, my faculty interview was awesome. He liked my jokes.

My student interview was so-so. He had just got out of a test and felt as if he failed it. My guess is that his circumstance will likely hurt my score since he was only focused on himself and not in the mood to interview. I remember thinking "****, just my luck"

 

[Neuronix]

Yeah, I'm not as anti-first year as others seem....

Who's anti-first year? DEATH TO THE FIRST YEARS!

But seriously, just because they're first years doesn't mean their opinions don't count. In fact, why should some crotchety old physician's opinion about what makes a good doctor be more important than a starry-eyed first year's? I never said that the student interviewer's feedback was or should be any less important. Just because someone's a little less experienced doesn't necessarily mean their ideas or opinions shouldn't matter.

In any case, I suspect many of you would be surprised if you could actually go read your own interview evaluation forms. My guess is if you had a mediocre interview you wouldn't know it, and when you suspect a mediocre interview it was probably fine to great. Unless there was something obvious that is . The interview is a very small part of the app process here for most, so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Neuronix]

wait, so your saying that student interviews arent really that important at penn... that they are used to just weed out the weirdos?

im not sure how student interviews can help applicants (i can see how they can hurt). if everyone (90% or so) score 1, 1.5, 2... and an interviewer really likes an interviewee and scores him/her a 1.... then that impact of a ''1'' is not really that strong is it?

in the adcomms eyes if a 1 or 2 are very similar, than there is no benefit really of an awesome student interview (theres only a chance to ruin your application altogether by getting a 5 or 6 or what have you).

Im suprised the adcomm at Penn is so big. They don't have a secondary to look at, and they only have 2 interviews (one of which seems to be undervalued).

And now you begin to understand why medical school admissions is so random. How would you fix it? Is there some way you can just weed out who will be the best and the worst in the future? How much does one hour on one random day really tell you about a person?

I never said the student interview was undervalued, btw. When I talk about some people just giving a 1 score and "He/She seems nice" to applicants, some faculty do that too.

As for the administration's song and dance... They are pretty good at selling the school aren't they? Sometimes the officials outright lie even after correcting them in private (this is in the past and has since been "fixed" supposedly), sometimes they bend the truth, but most of the time things are accurate and there's always lots of smiling faces. I really like Gaye Sheffler both in the job she does and as a person. Some of the issues I'm talking about are other places in the administration and there's a certain disconnect between admissions and what's really going on sometimes. My favorite is when they bring the Dean of the Medical School out to talk to applicants and he has no idea about the life of a student here. Honestly, that's a very small part of the dean's job.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

And now you begin to understand why medical school admissions is so random. How would you fix it? Is there some way you can just weed out who will be the best and the worst in the future? How much does one hour on one random day really tell you about a person?

I never said the student interview was undervalued, btw. When I talk about some people just giving a 1 score and "He/She seems nice" to applicants, some faculty do that too.

yea its such a crapshoot. damn it.

 

[foofish]

But seriously, just because they're first years doesn't mean their opinions don't count. In fact, why should some crotchety old physician's opinion about what makes a good doctor be more important than a starry-eyed first year's? I never said that the student interviewer's feedback was or should be any less important. Just because someone's a little less experienced doesn't necessarily mean their ideas or opinions shouldn't matter.

My guess about student interviewers in general, is that it's also a way for the school to get a read on whether the applicant is someone that they'd want to live with/learn with/work with for four years....i.e. a way to screen out sociopaths and blatant tools. The alum interviews I do are a little different, but that's definitely one thing the adcom wants us to comment on. And any school that seems to care about creating a good community gets a in my book.

 

[Yup]

That's wonderful to hear! That's exactly the kind of reassurance I was hoping for... What can I say, all this waiting has made me suspicious... As I said, I got a good vibe on my interview day, but it's hard to know if that's representative. It's great that the administration is so supportive of its students, and I hope I get the chance to experience it for myself! Congrats on your early acceptance by the way!

Thank you - that's very kind of you to say

 

[Dr Durden]

Dang, I got along great with the student, but not so much with my faculty member, and now I read all this.

14 days to the 26th....

 

[Neuronix]

Dang, I got along great with the student, but not so much with my faculty member, and now I read all this.

I never meant for anyone to take away that student interviews are less important. Admissions tells us that student and faculty interviews are of equal importance. Faculty members also can write superficial reviews of applicants.

Above all: STOP WORRYING ABOUT YOUR INTERVEW! First, you probably did fine. How you felt about it probably has little correlation with how it actually went. Second, the interviews don't matter much, period. Faculty, student, whatever, unless it went really poorly.

 

[shantster]

14 days to the 26th....

TWO Weeks! I don't know if I can wait that long. It will be over 5 months since I interviewed there...

EDIT: I just checked, yesterday was the 5 month mark. It seems so long ago.

 

[foofish]

TWO Weeks! I don't know if I can wait that long. It will be over 5 months since I interviewed there...

...and 9 months since submitting my primary. Man, I could have popped out a kid in less time.

 

[shantster]

...and 9 months since submitting my primary. Man, I could have popped out a kid in less time.

That's so depressing to think of it that way...

 

[HumbleMD]

Are people sending in Financial Aid info? Besides the FAFSA, what else is required? Sending it in without even an acceptance seems so cart-before-horsish though...

 

[Towelie]

Are people sending in Financial Aid info? Besides the FAFSA, what else is required? Sending it in without even an acceptance seems so cart-before-horsish though...

I wouldn't precisely for that reason.

 

[Dr Durden]

If you go to your status page, today there was an update to the financial aid tab. Apparently they want copies of you and your parents taxes in addition to that awful NeedAccess site.

Deadline is Sunday, April 1st.

 

[HumbleMD]

Son of a ****ing bitch. I know it's a drop in the bucket compared to all the expenses we've incurred in this process, bt the $15 required application fee for need based aid feels like UPenn is spitting right in my face. It seems like a silly little gamble considering we won't know if we're even accepted until March 24 or later, and the forms are required within the week. I mean, an application fee for need-based aid? Irony police anyone?

And honestly, why isn't the FAFSA enough for these schools? Why all the supplementary forms that ask the same questions? grrrr...

 

[bbabul01]

I'm sorry to be confrontational, but I kind of find it funny how much people complain about the financial aid process as if it's a new thing. If you had to deal with this crap as an undergrad, you should understand the process and accept at it this point. If you didn't, then quit your bitching, because mommy and daddy obviously took care of you for the last 4 years, so you have nothing to complain about.

 

[HumbleMD]

I'm sorry to be confrontational, but I kind of find it funny how much people complain about the financial aid process as if it's a new thing. If you had to deal with this crap as an undergrad, you should understand the process and accept at it this point. If you didn't, then quit your bitching, because mommy and daddy obviously took care of you for the last 4 years, so you have nothing to complain about.

"Mommy and Daddy" did not. But the process was standardized. I sent the FAFSA to 3 or so schools. They didn't each require their own repetitive forms, and W-2 and tax copies. These weren't needed until I was actually matriculated. Please don't make assumptions about something you know nothing about. jerk.

 

[sara3426]

yeah, that was a rather toolish comment.
and "mommy and daddy" did pay for me. and i'm still annoyed by the redundancy and length of the process.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Son of a ****ing bitch. I know it's a drop in the bucket compared to all the expenses we've incurred in this process, bt the $15 required application fee for need based aid feels like UPenn is spitting right in my face. It seems like a silly little gamble considering we won't know if we're even accepted until March 24 or later, and the forms are required within the week. I mean, an application fee for need-based aid? Irony police anyone?

And honestly, why isn't the FAFSA enough for these schools? Why all the supplementary forms that ask the same questions? grrrr...

the supplemental form that costs $15 is due april 9th.

march 26th is a monday, march 30th is a friday. im guessing we will have our decisions by march 30th at the latest. that gives 9-10 days to turn everything in.

im not turning in anything that costs money until i at least land a waitlist spot.

 

[QuakerPreMed]

im not turning in anything that costs money until i at least land a waitlist spot.

I started filling out (hey, gotta think positive) the $15 form (you pay at the end) and HOLY CRAP, it's the FAFSA but a billion times worse. It's going to take me forever... Since I'm getting married over the summer, first it asked me like 50 questions about my spouse's income (uh, I don't have one yet?) and THEN asked me the SAME QUESTIONS about my "prospective spouse." I don't know how much money she'll make next year??! Dear god.

 

[shantster]

I started filling out (hey, gotta think positive) the $15 form (you pay at the end) and HOLY CRAP, it's the FAFSA but a billion times worse. It's going to take me forever... Since I'm getting married over the summer, first it asked me like 50 questions about my spouse's income (uh, I don't have one yet?) and THEN asked me the SAME QUESTIONS about my "prospective spouse." I don't know how much money she'll make next year??! Dear god.

Oh my that sounds exciting. I guess I'll start filling it out while I'm still on break then. This way I'll see my parents and not have to deal with that craziness during school.

 

[Severus]

Oh God that form is horrible. I'd rather have to re-write my personal statement than fill that NeedAccess form out.

 

[Towelie]

Needaccess is mostly the same questions as FAFSA. A lot of schools require it--Hopkins, Penn, Cornell, etc, so you can send it to all of them at once.

 

[foofish]

Oh God that form is horrible. I'd rather have to re-write my personal statement than fill that NeedAccess form out.

Yeah, NeedAccess is perhaps the worst finaid form ever invented. I started it a while ago, but still haven't finished it.....

On a scale of 1 to MCAT, I'd say NeedAccess is a 7.

 

[yomama'sdoctor]

Yeah, On a scale of 1 to MCAT, I'd say NeedAccess is a 7.

oky- for someone who hasn't started fin aid for any school, what do I start with? (FAFSA or needaccess?). Heysus, it's just really difficult because my parents always get extension on their taxes...consolidating all the info now is driving me up the wall

 

[Towelie]

oky- for someone who hasn't started fin aid for any school, what do I start with? (FAFSA or needaccess?). Heysus, it's just really difficult because my parents always get extension on their taxes...consolidating all the info now is driving me up the wall

FAFSA. Pretty much every school uses it.

 

[HumbleMD]

oky- for someone who hasn't started fin aid for any school, what do I start with? (FAFSA or needaccess?). Heysus, it's just really difficult because my parents always get extension on their taxes...consolidating all the info now is driving me up the wall

Yeah, I had to kind of rush my parents on their taxes this year explicitly for this purpose. My favorite, though, is when they start asking for the type of car my parents drive (when mine's about to die and I'll be paying for one one loans once they kick in)...

 

[vmc303]

What's everyone's status page say? Mine simply says "Interview completed," nothing about being under review. It's been that way since I interviewed back in late November. Bad sign?

 

[zimmie256]

What's everyone's status page say? Mine simply says "Interview completed," nothing about being under review. It's been that way since I interviewed back in late November. Bad sign?

If it's a bad sign, you and I are in the same boat, because mine says the exact same thing. Hopefully it's just descriptive of the last stage in the process completed though and doesn't imply anything negative about no longer being reviewed...

 

[QuakerPreMed]

A friend who goes to Penn says the date change was not a "delay" but simply a change on the website and that they always planned to send them out around the 26th...sounds sneaky to me...

And I'm also in the "interview completed" boat, as is everyone else I talk to...I wouldn't worry about it.

I'm not filling out the rest of this hellish NeedAccess form unless I'm admitted...The questions are rough stuff indeed.

 

[MessyJessie]

...and 9 months since submitting my primary. Man, I could have popped out a kid in less time.

My cousin did pop out a kid - pregnant in August, delivered last Monday

 

[foofish]

My cousin did pop out a kid - pregnant in August, delivered last Monday

Heh, well congrats to your cousin!!

 

[shantster]

12 days (or 11 if you're on the East Coast) until it's the week of the 26th.

 

[CaramelDlite]

wow i can't believe this thread was banished to page 3! let's get this thing cracking again.


Who knows how many interviews Penn did this year??

 

[zimmie256]

wow i can't believe this thread was banished to page 3! let's get this thing cracking again.


Who knows how many interviews Penn did this year??

I don't know how many total, but I heard on interview day that they accept ~25% of their interviewees initially...

 

[old_boy]

They said they would interview 800 at my interview day.

 

[shantster]

On the third page again?

11 days...

 

[sara3426]

wow no one is keeping this alive, huh?