Upper division math?

[Jacobian78]

I am getting ready to register for summer term and am thinking about possibly taking an upper division math class. Curious if anyone knew anything about the following in terms of difficulty, interest, "abstract-edness" etc, etc. The classes are Group Theory, Number Theory, and Discrete Mathematics. Main reason for taking them would be that I managed a sad sad C- in Calc 2 a year ago so I'm trying to make up for it. Also, I know this may have been asked, but will this go towards the BCPM gpa?

First post ever....mildly unnerving. Swear I used the search function!

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[paradocs we are]

I am getting ready to register for summer term and am thinking about possibly taking an upper division math class. Curious if anyone knew anything about the following in terms of difficulty, interest, "abstract-edness" etc, etc. The classes are Group Theory, Number Theory, and Discrete Mathematics. Main reason for taking them would be that I managed a sad sad C- in Calc 2 a year ago so I'm trying to make up for it. Also, I know this may have been asked, but will this go towards the BCPM gpa?

First post ever....mildly unnerving. Swear I used the search function!

I believe you. That's a unique question. Too bad I don't have an answer. My sister's a math major but it sucks that she's asleep now and can't help you.

 

[Jacobian78]

Haha it's odd that you're the first one to reply to this. I've used the SDN forums for awhile but never actually registered, and for some reason whenever I see the "excited smiley" in you're signature I routinely end up staring at it for 10-15 seconds before realizing that I have completely spaced out. Clearly that icon contains powers of hypnosis.

 

[SirGecko]

Sorry I'm not a math major but if you don't mind me asking why are you taking more math classes if you got a C- in calc? I thought most schools didn't even have a math requirement. (didn't really pay much attention because I had a lot of math as an engineer so I was covered)

So I can't answer most of those questions having only taken multivariable calc, differential equations and linear algebra but I can answer that yes they should go into the BCPM gpa. (they are math classes after all)

 

[paradocs we are]

Haha it's odd that you're the first one to reply to this. I've used the SDN forums for awhile but never actually registered, and for some reason whenever I see the "excited smiley" in you're signature I routinely end up staring at it for 10-15 seconds before realizing that I have completely spaced out. Clearly that icon contains powers of hypnosis.

You may like to check out the link I posted in my sig then.

 

[Quadratic]

You really like math. I can tell by your Username

It gets more proof based the higher you go. Most schools have an introductory to higher math course that aims to get students adjusted to this. You should see if you school has such a course.

Good luck.

 

[HumidBeing]

No one has answered the easy part, yet. Yes, the math classes go toward the the BCPM GPA.

 

[Jacobian78]

I took Calc II my first year of college when I planned on going into psychology, so I wasn't really concerned about the class or it's horrid 9 a.m. time slot. Haha my username could be considered a good indication. Main reason for taking the class over the summer would be genuine interest + effort to show adcoms that I can handle math.

Paradocs, I can only assume you are talking about that impossibly massive 2-7am thread. Haha I appreciate your efforts to draw me into what appears to be a sure-fire venue for procrastination.

 

[paradocs we are]

I took Calc II my first year of college when I planned on going into psychology, so I wasn't really concerned about the class or it's horrid 9 a.m. time slot. Haha my username could be considered a good indication. Main reason for taking the class over the summer would be genuine interest + effort to show adcoms that I can handle math.

Paradocs, I can only assume you are talking about that impossibly massive 2-7am thread. Haha I appreciate your efforts to draw me into what appears to be a sure-fire venue for procrastination.

Hmm a lurker, I see. Fair enough. So far, you're demonstrating an ability to articulate ideas well. I'm keeping the invitation open. I don't invite people usually but I like you. So drop in when you have time to procrastinate... Because everyone needs to procrastinate.

 

[SirGecko]

Main reason for taking the class over the summer would be genuine interest + effort to show adcoms that I can handle math.

See, I'd take it for the first reason but not the second. I don't think most adcoms care too much about math. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

But yeah, I love math too but it doesn't love me. It's a very one sided relationship.

 

[Quadratic]

I took Calc II my first year of college when I planned on going into psychology, so I wasn't really concerned about the class or it's horrid 9 a.m. time slot. Haha my username could be considered a good indication. Main reason for taking the class over the summer would be genuine interest + effort to show adcoms that I can handle math.

Paradocs, I can only assume you are talking about that impossibly massive 2-7am thread. Haha I appreciate your efforts to draw me into what appears to be a sure-fire venue for procrastination.

Well, I'd take it for genuine interest rather than pleasing adcoms. Introduction to higher math takes time and lots of reading. Adcoms will like to see the A but they'd probably be just as happy if you were a music major and took a music course and got the same grade.

 

[paradocs we are]

See, I'd take it for the first reason but not the second. I don't think most adcoms care too much about math. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

But yeah, I love math too but it doesn't love me. It's a very one sided relationship.

I agree 100%.

If you were a math major or minor, it would be impressive, just like my taking higher level organic chemistry coruses and doing my thesis in it. However, ONE extra math course won't really be that noticeable to tell you the truth. I didn't do a SINGLE upper level biology course (literally just first year bio and the rest were physics, chem, math and humanities courses). Some could have argued (esp. on SDN) that that is TERRIBLE and I should definitely show the ad coms I'm capable of doing what med school is all about (such as anatomy, physiology) but I got in.

 

[Jacobian78]

I agree 100%.

If you were a math major or minor, it would be impressive, just like my taking higher level organic chemistry coruses and doing my thesis in it. However, ONE extra math course won't really be that noticeable to tell you the truth. I didn't do a SINGLE upper level biology course (literally just first year bio and the rest were physics, chem, math and humanities courses). Some could have argued (esp. on SDN) that that is TERRIBLE and I should definitely show the ad coms I'm capable of doing what med school is all about (such as anatomy, physiology) but I got in.

Looks like in actuality, I failed to articulate myself at all After I finish (insert choice) class over the summer, I'll only need 8 more credits for the math minor, which if time permits I plan on finishing. Lurker? IS that an insult?? I don't know how I should feel, this may be my first experience with forum name-calling. I can only hope for more to come

Quadratic,
Thanks for the information and input. Just curious, would you recommend one class over another in terms of first upper division course?

 

[Quadratic]

Looks like in actuality, I failed to articulate myself at all After I finish (insert choice) class over the summer, I'll only need 8 more credits for the math minor, which if time permits I plan on finishing. Lurker? IS that an insult?? I don't know how I should feel, this may be my first experience with forum name-calling. I can only hope for more to come

Quadratic,
Thanks for the information and input. Just curious, would you recommend one class over another in terms of first upper division course?

Well, yeah. The first real upper division course you'll run into is probably analysis. But before analysis I strongly advise you to take an introductory math reasoning course or buy a book dealing with the issue and READ it over the summer before tackling analysis. Other than analysis, there's linear algebra and abstract algebra. Those are usually 300 level courses so they qualify for upper division.

I've had friends that have taken linear algebra and intro to math reasoning at the same time. I'd consider linear algebra before analysis and abstract algebra.

 

[Jacobian78]

Well, yeah. The first real upper division course you'll run into is probably analysis. But before analysis I strongly advise you to take an introductory math reasoning course or buy a book dealing with the issue and READ it over the summer before tackling analysis. Other than analysis, there's linear algebra and abstract algebra. Those are usually 300 level courses so they qualify for upper division.

I've had friends that have taken linear algebra and intro to math reasoning at the same time. I'd consider linear algebra before analysis and abstract algebra.

I actually took a linear algebra course at my school, but it was a bit odd in that it was listed as a lower division in the 200's. One of my main concerns is that I haven't had to do much in terms of proofs. Actually I havent had to really bust out a proof since probably high school geometry, which isn't exactly real analysis or the likes. I've heard that discrete is pretty heavy on the proof side, but of course that is just hearsay. Just don't want to bite off more than I can chew over the summer and regret it.

 

[Quadratic]

I actually took a linear algebra course at my school, but it was a bit odd in that it was listed as a lower division in the 200's. One of my main concerns is that I haven't had to do much in terms of proofs. Actually I havent had to really bust out a proof since probably high school geometry, which isn't exactly real analysis or the likes. I've heard that discrete is pretty heavy on the proof side, but of course that is just hearsay. Just don't want to bite off more than I can chew over the summer and regret it.

Yeah and that's the thing. Upper level math requires a lot of time during the regular semester. You should ask yourself whether you want that type of commitment in a presumably 8-9 week session.

 

[shiftingmirage]

I'm a math minor and probably should have been a math major as I really love the subject matter...anyways.

I took multi I with a great prof and it was matrices a little bumbed up from what you've seen in previous math courses. Descrete math is all about proofs (did you like geometry?). The proofs are not based on shapes, however things like, given a and b where a is .....and b is.... the product of a and b will always be odd/even. Or if a intersects b and b ingtersects c, then a intersects b. Most of the stuff you know the answer to, the real trick is using math to prove your point. Currently I'm in linear algebra. It's pretty easy, but multi I is a prereq at my school.

I would avoid math classes with the phrase theory in them. I have never taken any, but I had a couple friends who took real analysis and said it was the most difficult thing they ever encountered and spent upwards of 2 hrs working on a hw problem. Maybe you should ratemyprofessor and find feedback from individuals that took the classes you are interested in.

 

[engineeredout]

I hated when I first took math (got a C- first time taking calc I) and now I'm an applied math and statistics major. Trust me, it definitely gets better the higher up you go.

I hated linear algebra though.

If I were you, try to look for Graph Theory. I found it fun, and at least at my school it was an upper division math course. It might be called Combinatorics too, which is a blend of graph theory and enumeration.

I also enjoyed upper level probability and statistics, but hey thats just me.

If you want to avoid abstractness, stay away from discrete mathematics like the plaque. Its basically going to be you doing proofs the whole time. Out of the ones you listed, I'd recommend group theory.

Don't be too afraid of calc III, its actually much easier than calc II. It only uses basic integrations, just for three variables at a time.

 

[hal9000]

I actually took a linear algebra course at my school, but it was a bit odd in that it was listed as a lower division in the 200's. One of my main concerns is that I haven't had to do much in terms of proofs. Actually I havent had to really bust out a proof since probably high school geometry, which isn't exactly real analysis or the likes. I've heard that discrete is pretty heavy on the proof side, but of course that is just hearsay. Just don't want to bite off more than I can chew over the summer and regret it.

If you're going to do proofs, the "Intro to Adv. Math" is a must. It was one of the hardest math classes I've taken, even in comparison to the "actual" Adv. Math courses, simply because it's like being in Kindergarten learning something totally new. Once you get the hang of proofs though, it's nice, and you can jump on into analysis or something. Honestly though, I'd recommend doing less abstract stuff and sticking with something like combinatorics or adv. probability theory which you can actually use later on in life. (You do want to be a doctor and not a mathematician after-all.)

 

[premedinpa]

Hi!! A C- in Calc 2 is pretty admirable at least at my school Calc 2 is a really difficult course. If you are looking to take another upper level math course just realize most of the time they only will get harder. Try to talk to some math majors see if any classes have "easy" teachers, for example at my school a Calc1 class with a certain notoriously hard professor is harder then a Discrete Math class. Either way don't sweat it too much its only 1 c.

 

[paradocs we are]

Looks like in actuality, I failed to articulate myself at all After I finish (insert choice) class over the summer, I'll only need 8 more credits for the math minor, which if time permits I plan on finishing. Lurker? IS that an insult?? I don't know how I should feel, this may be my first experience with forum name-calling. I can only hope for more to come

Quadratic,
Thanks for the information and input. Just curious, would you recommend one class over another in terms of first upper division course?

Nope, it's not an insult. It means you're aware of what is going on, read threads, but do not participate. You admitted to that yourself in your first post ever on SDN.

 

[loganhayes]

I am getting ready to register for summer term and am thinking about possibly taking an upper division math class. Curious if anyone knew anything about the following in terms of difficulty, interest, "abstract-edness" etc, etc. The classes are Group Theory, Number Theory, and Discrete Mathematics. Main reason for taking them would be that I managed a sad sad C- in Calc 2 a year ago so I'm trying to make up for it. Also, I know this may have been asked, but will this go towards the BCPM gpa?

First post ever....mildly unnerving. Swear I used the search function!

If you get a C in Calc 2, I suggest you avoid any upper Math courses to save your BCPM GPA. Calculus (I-III) is the easiest of Math. If you can't handle Calculus, you will find anything beyond this very challenging. Math "theory" courses are about proofs. If you never write proofs before, consider taking one. But mind you, this is by no means easier than Calculus (purely computation).
But you can take Math-related courses, such as Biostatistics, if your school offers one. It would probably count as Math or Bio, depends on your school. If you get an A, it will count towards your BCPM. Take Stats and Probability, if you like. But do take the lower division one, not upper division. Upper division Stats and Prob is much harder. Again, if you can't handle Calculus, your options in Math are limited. I speak from experience (Math major).

 

[DeadCactus]

Group Theory - Stay away. Not the place to learn proofs, in my opinion.

Number Theory and Discrete Mathematics - These shouldn't be too bad. The concepts are relatively simple and the classes are a decent place to learn to do proofs, depending on how they are taught. Discrete Math would probably be a smoother transition, while Number Theory would probably be more interesting.

Edit: I'm just recommending a course to take. I have nothing to say on whether you should take any or not.

 

[Jacobian78]

Just wanted to say thanks for all the input to everyone who posted. I've actually already done the whole calculus series (including those oh, so boring hours of binomial and taylor series ). It's not that Calc II was difficult, I just didnt care about getting a grade in it due to my current plans at the time. Anyways, think I'm going to go with number theory, definitely steering clear of discrete. Had no idea I would get so much help with this question though, once again thanks for the input.