USC FIRST YEAR Cost of Attendance $173k 2023-2024

[Cold Front]

People are still applying!

2012: $114k (4% increase)
2013: $123k (8%)
2014: $127k (3%)
2015: $130k (2%)
2016: $134k (3%)
2017: $137k (2%)
2018: $140k (2%)
2019: $149k (6%)
2020: $152k (2%)
2021: $154k (1%)
2022: $162k (5%)
2023: $168k (4%)
2024: $173k (3%)

*Plus interest rates of 6%+ for direct loans and 7%+ direct plus.

*Doesn’t include origination fees (1-4%).

*The post-doc programs fees are also up. Will cost additional $400-450k to specialize at this institution.

In 4 more years, this program will charge 200k first year for cost of attendance.

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[SuxDrugs&Rocuronium]

I paid $202,000 for all four years (and just graduated 2023). Any dental student that willingly accepts this debt is stupid, and they deserve the financial hell they’re getting into

 

[axiumgod]

cringing at the fact people willingly pay that much

 

[toyotasupra]

Better off flipping burgers, every one in Cali got a 25% raise this week. Hahaha.

Meanwhile, dentist pay is stagnant and in some places reduced.

 

[Blueshirts]

Year 1 tuition/fees will balloon to almost 230k by the time payback starts.

 

[D1Bound]

Seems like a great deal. I’d take it.

 

[AONLINE]

A pre-dent in California posted this question on a dental Facebook group. Y’all, what is your advice for this student?

 

[charlestweed]

I paid $202,000 for all four years (and just graduated 2023). Any dental student that willingly accepts this debt is stupid, and they deserve the financial hell they’re getting into

Do your parents help you? Or are you a non-traditional student who had saved some money from the previous jobs? I don’t think a dental school that charges $202k for all 4 years exists in this country.

Not all dental students at USC take out full amount of student loans. Some have parents who help pay for things like food, cars, rents, and partial tuition etc. So they may only owe $200-300k in the end.

 

[charlestweed]

View attachment 385044
A pre-dent in California posted this question on a dental Facebook group. Y’all, what is your advice for this student?

With $300k student loan debt, his monthly repayment amount will be $3500/month or $42000/yr for the next 10 years. So with his $250k dentist’s salary, he will bring home $50-70k more per year (depending on the income tax rate in his state) than what he makes at his current job. After 10 yrs when the student loan debt is gone, he will bring home $92-112k more per year than what he makes at his current job. Hopefully, with 10+ years of experience, he'll make more than just $250k.

Making $250k a year as a dentist is very doable but working 4 days/wk may not get him there, especially at the beginning when he is slow and does not have any work experience to prove to his employer. To make that much (and if he wishes to stay in CA), it may requires him to work 5-6 days/wk, which may be a lot tougher than what he does at his current job. So the question is will he be willing to work that hard?

I can safely assume that this pre-dent person is not happy with his current job and that’s why he put in a lot of energy/effort (taking prereq classes and studying late at night etc) to apply and got accepted to Tufts dental. I don’t know how old this person is. I don’t know if he has any kid(s) to support. I don’t know how long he has had this $120k job. I wonder why he has not been able to save anything (and still has to take out the full loan amount for his dental school) with such good salary. If this person is already in his late 30s/early 40s, I wouldn’t recommend him to pursue dentistry.

 

[deleted1047421]

Do your parents help you? Or are you a non-traditional student who had saved some money from the previous jobs? I don’t think a dental school that charges $202k for all 4 years exists in this country.

Not all dental students at USC take out full amount of student loans. Some have parents who help pay for things like food, cars, rents, and partial tuition etc. So they may only owe $200-300k in the end.

It doesn’t matter if parents help them or not. In the end it still costed the student and/or family $$$.
Someone had to pay. If I paid for my kids now, that means they inherit less. It’s not an endless stream of money.

I always laugh when people here post that those with parents that are dentists get an edge over everyone else bc they can inherit a practice.
If one were to give their practice to their child that means they didn’t sell their practice and lost out on big cash. The family ends up paying someway somehow.

 

[SuxDrugs&Rocuronium]

Do your parents help you? Or are you a non-traditional student who had saved some money from the previous jobs? I don’t think a dental school that charges $202k for all 4 years exists in this country.

Not all dental students at USC take out full amount of student loans. Some have parents who help pay for things like food, cars, rents, and partial tuition etc. So they may only owe $200-300k in the end.

University of Utah. $50k per year for in state tuition/fees, minimal tuition increases while I was there. Wife and I sold our condo we phas purchased during undergrad to help pay for some living costs while we lived in in-laws basement for free, in exchange for helping with yard work etc, but no other help.

 

[deleted1047421]

So what is

People are still applying!

2012: $114k (4% increase)
2013: $123k (8%)
2014: $127k (3%)
2015: $130k (2%)
2016: $134k (3%)
2017: $137k (2%)
2018: $140k (2%)
2019: $149k (6%)
2020: $152k (2%)
2021: $154k (1%)
2022: $162k (5%)
2023: $168k (4%)
2024: $173k (3%)

*Plus interest rates of 6%+ for direct loans and 7%+ direct plus.

*Doesn’t include origination fees (1-4%).

*The post-doc programs fees are also up. Will cost additional $400-450k to specialize at this institution.

In 4 more years, this program will charge 200k first year for cost of attendance.

What is the grand total in four years ?
Assuming interest stays the same and full loans taken.

 

[charlestweed]

It doesn’t matter if parents help them or not. In the end it still costed the student and/or family $$$.
Someone had to pay. If I paid for my kids now, that means they inherit less. It’s not an endless stream of money.

I always laugh when people here post that those with parents that are dentists get an edge over everyone else bc they can inherit a practice.
If one were to give their practice to their child that means they didn’t sell their practice and lost out on big cash. The family ends up paying someway somehow.

Yes, it does. In the end, the kids can support themselves with the degree they earn and not have to face the burden of paying back the massive amount of student loan debt. Even with little (or zero) inheritance money from their parents, the kids will do fine with their professional degree, which is priceless. Not everyone can become a doctor or dentist….it requires a lot of time, effort, perseverance, and money. It’s dangerous to give the inheritance money to the kid who doesn’t want to work and has no college/professional degree.

 

[charlestweed]

University of Utah. $50k per year for in state tuition/fees, minimal tuition increases while I was there. Wife and I sold our condo we phas purchased during undergrad to help pay for some living costs while we lived in in-laws basement for free, in exchange for helping with yard work etc, but no other help.

I see. So your in-laws help you with the shelter. Good for you. Your future will be very bright.

I have friends who have kids who go to expensive dental schools like BU, LECOM, UCLA (it’s an expensive public school), USC, UOP. They can’t pay the full amount but they help their kids pay for rents and other things.

 

[SuxDrugs&Rocuronium]

I see. So your in-laws help you with the shelter. Good for you. Your future will be very bright.

I have friends who have kids who go to expensive dental schools like BU, LECOM, UCLA (it’s an expensive public school), USC, UOP. They can’t pay the full amount but they help their kids pay for rents and other things.

Yes but the important difference is that I had the opportunity to choose other, more expensive dental schools. Ones that were more well established than Utah. But I chose the cheapest and took advantage of financial benefits I had available to me. Even if I didn’t have free housing, I still would have come out ahead of students at USC. That’s the difference between me and the people who choose to go to USC and pay the absurd tuition

 

[Cold Front]

So what is

What is the grand total in four years ?
Assuming interest stays the same and full loans taken.

About 800k after interest. Maybe more.

 

[charlestweed]

Yes but the important difference is that I had the opportunity to choose other, more expensive dental schools. Ones that were more well established than Utah. But I chose the cheapest and took advantage of financial benefits I had available to me. Even if I didn’t have free housing, I still would have come out ahead of students at USC. That’s the difference between me and the people who choose to go to USC and pay the absurd tuition

You made a wise decision. It’s good that you think education is a form of financial investment; therefore, attending a cheapest school (instead of a more “famous” more expensive school) will help you a lot later on. It’s just like opening your own office….the less overhead you have, the more money you will take home. A lot of young kids don’t think like you and me. They want to attend a “famous” school” because they think it’s important to help them get better job after graduation. They want to live far away from their parents (instead of living with them) even if they have to borrow more money. I know kids who want to live in the dorms even when their parent’s houses are only 5-10 minutes drive away. It’s crazy.

That’s the difference between me and the people who choose to go to USC and pay the absurd tuition

USC should be the last option for the predent, if this is the only school that accepts him/her.

 

[juniordentist]

I was watching tiktoks of people asking "how much do you make". A software engineer with 4 years experience said 500k a year. I feel sorry for these dumb pre dents. They are making dumb decisions but the reality is they are following their parents out dated advice

 

[charlestweed]

I was watching tiktoks of people asking "how much do you make". A software engineer with 4 years experience said 500k a year. I feel sorry for these dumb pre dents. They are making dumb decisions but the reality is they are following their parents out dated advice

And there are also software engineers who make less than $100k. There are dentists who make $1M. There are dentists who make less than $100k. There are people who make $500k without any college degree. It depends on how hard one works. A degree (or a specialty certificate) is just a piece of paper. People tend to inflate their salaries on internet….no one wants to appear to be a loser in a public forum.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

You’d have to be a complete idiot to attend USC, and several other schools, if you’re reliant on student loans. Honestly, things have gotten so absurd, it’s hard for me to feel sympathy for predents that fall for this debt trap. How willfully blind does one have to be?! Unfortunately, if USC or NYU is the only school you get into, you shouldn’t be going and it’s time to look for a new career.

Big Hoss

 

[Nostalgia_Night]

NYU: hold my beer!

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Dear USC and NYU,

My offer still stands…

Big Hoss

 

[deleted1047421]

NYU: hold my beer!

834 k for an NYU DDS degree.

What is the cost of attendance for their specialty programs.
Perio ortho prosth endo?

 

[D1Bound]

NYU: hold my beer!

A great deal imo

 

[Cold Front]

834 k for an NYU DDS degree.

What is the cost of attendance for their specialty programs.
Perio ortho prosth endo?

Post doc programs at these high cost schools are usually 350-450k with cost of living and interest.

It’s getting more common to see someone who pay 1.2-1.3M to graduate and specialize at these programs. And that’s just today’s numbers. The people who are applying today (a junior or senior in college), will be looking at 1.5M total cost to graduate and specialize at USC or NYU. Imagine those in high school, or worse, born today and apply to these programs in 10-20 years. Will these schools still be getting a long line of applicants by then? About 10-20 years ago that question was asked on these dental boards, everyone said “hell no!”. But here we are today.

 

[D1Bound]

Post doc programs at these high cost schools are usually 350-450k with cost of living and interest.

It’s getting more common to see someone who pay 1.2-1.3M to graduate and specialize at these programs. And that’s just today’s numbers. The people who are applying today (a junior or senior in college), will be looking at 1.5M total cost to graduate and specialize at USC or NYU. Imagine those in high school, or worse, born today and apply to these programs in 10-20 years. Will these schools still be getting a long line of applicants by then? About 10-20 years ago that question was asked on these dental boards, everyone said “hell no!”. But here we are today.

1.3 million dollars in debt to become a periodontist with 7 years of school? or 250-300k ish debt to become an ER, internal medicine doc? This is loony toons if you go into that much debt in dentistry.

 

[Joplean]

I dont understand the specific hate towards USC/NYU when literally every single private school cost about the same insane prices when you actually compare the COA. Why are the boomer dentists still going "I wouldn't attend if I only got into blah blah," bro, it's not 30 years ago when you had options that were always cheaper lol.

You’d have to be a complete idiot to attend USC, and several other schools, if you’re reliant on student loans. Honestly, things have gotten so absurd, it’s hard for me to feel sympathy for predents that fall for this debt trap. How willfully blind does one have to be?! Unfortunately, if USC or NYU is the only school you get into, you shouldn’t be going and it’s time to look for a new career.

View attachment 385095

Big Hoss

 

[deleted1047421]

I dont understand the specific hate towards USC/NYU when literally every single private school cost about the same insane prices when you actually compare the COA. Why are the boomer dentists still going "I wouldn't attend if I only got into blah blah," bro, it's not 30 years ago when you had options that were always cheaper lol.

Please show me the cost of the top 10 most expensive dental schools. We should not single these two schools out. All should equally be discussed.

If I had to guess. Boston university. Columbia. These should be expensive.

 

[SuxDrugs&Rocuronium]

I dont understand the specific hate towards USC/NYU when literally every single private school cost about the same insane prices when you actually compare the COA. Why are the boomer dentists still going "I wouldn't attend if I only got into blah blah," bro, it's not 30 years ago when you had options that were always cheaper lol.

Because even compared to a lot of the private schools, USC/NYU have high tuition on top of the fact that LA and NYC are two of the most expensive places to live, and both of these schools have huge financial resources, so these tuition prices aren’t necessary, just greedy. And there are other options that are cheaper. Some other private schools as well as public schools are going to be cheaper than these two. The other option is doing something other than dentistry. Most people would be better off doing something other than dentistry than paying close to a million dollars to attend one of these schools.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I dont understand the specific hate towards USC/NYU

Maybe because these two schools lead the pack.

Why are the boomer dentists still going "I wouldn't attend if I only got into blah blah," bro, it's not 30 years ago when you had options that were always cheaper lol.

How old do you think I am? I graduated from dental school in 2015. I’m just not oblivious to the uncomfortable reality facing dentistry. I saw the writing on the wall even back then and pursued the HPSP as a consequence.

There was a time in the 70s and 80s when the economics of a dental education were so bad that the ratio of applicants to seats in school was nearly 1:1. Guess what happened? Schools closed. We’ve got to be getting close to another tipping point. History may not repeat itself, but it surely rhymes…

Plagued by Falling Enrollment, Dental Schools Close or Cut Back (Published 1987)

www.nytimes.com

Big Hoss

 

[juniordentist]

There's a fundamental shift coming. In 20 years people will look back on this time and think it is bizarre. But it could go either way, and I actually don't know which way it will go.

It 20 years it could be "those young dental students were absolutely stupid to take on that amount of debt, they were never able to get ahead".

Or it could be "Wow 20 years ago you used to be able to go to university and buy your way to middle class. It was hard work and took a lifetime of work but you could make it happen through working and earning an income. These days it doesnt matter how much you work, you can never get ahead. The only people middle/ upper class are those who come from familys with assets."

30 years ago you could work in a factory, have a stay at home wife, and still be able to afford a house. Those days are long gone.

These days, we get taxed so much higher on income than assets, that it makes sense that in a generation people may find that the only way to make money is through assets. And the only way to get assets is through inheriting it. The class divide will only get bigger with time.

I think it's stupid to go into this level of debt, but some days I wonder if we are the last generation who can be poor, go to university and make it middle upper class. Time will tell

 

[yappy]

1.3 million dollars in debt to become a periodontist with 7 years of school? or 250-300k ish debt to become an ER, internal medicine doc? This is loony toons if you go into that much debt in dentistry.

There are expensive medical schools too.

 

[deleted923283]

There's a fundamental shift coming. In 20 years people will look back on this time and think it is bizarre. But it could go either way, and I actually don't know which way it will go.

It 20 years it could be "those young dental students were absolutely stupid to take on that amount of debt, they were never able to get ahead".

Or it could be "Wow 20 years ago you used to be able to go to university and buy your way to middle class. It was hard work and took a lifetime of work but you could make it happen through working and earning an income. These days it doesnt matter how much you work, you can never get ahead. The only people middle/ upper class are those who come from familys with assets."

30 years ago you could work in a factory, have a stay at home wife, and still be able to afford a house. Those days are long gone.

These days, we get taxed so much higher on income than assets, that it makes sense that in a generation people may find that the only way to make money is through assets. And the only way to get assets is through inheriting it. The class divide will only get bigger with time.

I think it's stupid to go into this level of debt, but some days I wonder if we are the last generation who can be poor, go to university and make it middle upper class. Time will tell

The economic era of "cheap money" is ending. The Fed is going to keep the interest rates high to try to tamper the dramatic inflation. Those high interest rates are going to be passed on by banks to consumer loans. The government is going to feel the pinch and increase loan rates as well. Forgiving graduate school loans after 25 years of below-minimum payments is a leaky pipe of water that I can't imagine goes unpatched as the federal government continues to struggle financially. Also, who wants to spend 25 years watching your debt blow up to millions, then needing to pay an enormous tax bill?

Eventually people thinking about dental school are going to see that the numbers don't add up. I think the interest in dental will drop suddenly rather than gradually. We're not there yet. But when we get there, these schools are goners. Even with wealthy students, the path just won't have any value.

 

[charlestweed]

The other option is doing something other than dentistry. Most people would be better off doing something other than dentistry than paying close to a million dollars to attend one of these schools.

The problem is most of the applicants are already in too deep. Most of them are 3rd and 4th Biology (or other prehealth majors) students. They’ve worked hard for the last 3-4 years to maintain a decent GPA. Many have spent time doing extra work like research and volunteer to help boost their resume. And now you are telling them not to do Dentistry? What other options do they have beside dentistry? Work….but how can one find job with just a BS degree in Biology? Switch to a different major (ie engineering, computer science etc) by spending more time in school and taking out more student loans? Switch to Pharmacy and optometry? But these 2 fields are also expensive and oversaturated…and have very low opportunity for owning a business. Apply for med schools? Medical schools are super hard to get in.....having a good GPA and high MCAT score is not good enough, especially if you are Asian. As Yappy pointed out, there are a lot of expensive medical schools as well…and you can’t pay back the student loans right away (and the interest continue to accrue) because you have to do a minimum 3 years of residency.

Since the pathway to become a dentist is a lengthy and expensive process, one needs to have a good plan to help minimize the time and the cost. One should go to a cheap state school, take all the prerequisite classes, earn good grades and try to finish them in less than 4 years. Many dental schools don’t require one to have a BS degree. And with good GPA and DAT score, one should get accepted to multiple dental schools and he/she gets to pick the cheapest one to attend. The problem is most HS kids don’t really know if they want to become a dentist at such young age. Many of my friends picked dentistry because they couldn’t get into med school. Many of them quit their engineering jobs and pursued dentistry. Another problem is most smart 4.0+ GPA HS kids don’t want to attend a cheap local college…they want to attend a more famous (and usually a lot more expensive) school so they can prove to other smart classmates that they are also very smart. Sadly, many parents also encourage their kids to pick the more expensive “famous” schools. The majority of my friends and cousins, who have college-aged kids, disagree with me when I say it doesn’t matter where one attends school.

 

[LFA20]

The problem is most of the applicants are already in too deep in the process. Most of them are 3rd and 4th Bio (or other prehealth majors) students. They’ve worked hard for the last 3-4 years to maintain a decent GPA. Many have spent time doing extra work like research and volunteer to help boost their resume. And now you are telling them not to do Dentistry? What other options do they have beside dentistry? Work….but how can one find job with just a BS degree in Biology? Switch to a different major (ie engineering, computer science etc) by spending more time in school and taking out more student loans? Switch to Pharmacy and optometry? But these 2 fields are also expensive and oversaturated…and have very low opportunity for owning a business. Apply for med schools? Medical schools are super hard to get in.....having a good GPA and high MCAT score is not good enough, especially if you are Asian. As Yappy pointed out, there are a lot of expensive medical schools as well…and you can’t pay back the student loans right away (and the interest continue to accrue) because you have to do a minimum 3 years of residency.

Since the pathway to become a dentist is a lengthy and expensive process, one needs to have a good plan to help minimize the time and the cost. One should go to a cheap state school, take all the prerequisite classes, earn good grades and try to finish them in less than 4 years. Many dental schools don’t require one to have a BS degree. And with good GPA and DAT score, one should get accepted to multiple dental schools and he/she gets to pick the cheapest one to attend. The problem is most HS kids don’t really know if they want to become a dentist at such young age. Many of my friends picked dentistry because they couldn’t get into med school. Many of them quit their engineering jobs and pursued dentistry. Another problem is most smart 4.0+ GPA HS kids don’t want to attend a cheap local college…they want to attend a more famous (and usually a lot more expensive) school so they can prove to other smart classmates that they are also very smart. Sadly, many parents also encourage their kids to pick the more expensive “famous” schools. The majority of my friends and cousins, who have college-aged kids, disagree with me when I say it doesn’t matter where one attends school.

PA, CRNA, NP, anesthesiology assistant. All these fields are a fraction of what dental school charges.

 

[charlestweed]

PA, CRNA, NP, anesthesiology assistant. All these fields are a fraction of what dental school charges.

All of these career options....Less debt for sure...... but defintely not higher pay (in comparison to dentistry) if you calculate the hourly wage. And I believe some of them (crna) require just as much time to earn the degree as dentistry.

My college friend is a PA and currently works at Kasier hospital. He switched to PA after he applied for med schools twice and didn't get in. I got my DDS before he got his PA because he had also worked as a paramedic for a year or two before he applied for PA school. His wife is a nurse. I went to their house a couple of times. They seem to be doing ok financially. I currently treat his daughter.

I also have a friend who has a daughter who did her undergrad study at Cornell. She then took a gap year and worked as a CNA. Then she applied for PA schools and got accepted to one. Fortunately, my friend set up a college saving plan that helped pay for her daughter's education at Cornell, which wasn't cheap. Her daughter only had to take out loan for her PA school. If her daughter went to a much cheaper undergrad school, she would not have any student loan debt.

 

[charlestweed]

30 years ago you could work in a factory, have a stay at home wife, and still be able to afford a house. Those days are long gone.

I graduated 23 yrs ago when the home prices were about 1/4 – 1/3 of what they are today….when the gas price was only $2 a gallon…when a bowl of Vietnamese Pho soup (my favorite) was under $5. And yet, I didn’t think I could survive l if I was the only income earner in my family. Even with both my and my wife’s good stable incomes, it still took us almost 20 yrs of hard work (I didn’t stop working 6 days/wk until I turned 49) to pay off all of our debts.

I don’t understand how some households can survive with just 1 income. I don’t understand how some of my assistants at the corp can just quit their jobs and take a few months off when they also have kids to support. When I still had debts, I’d be in serious financial trouble if I stopped working for a month or two. That’s why I had to buy life and disability insurances in case something bad happens to me or to my wife.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I don’t understand how some of my assistants at the corp can just quit their jobs and take a few months off when they also have kids to support.

You and I are subsidizing them with our tax dollars. Someone has to pay to support the Bernie Sanders Free Stuff Brigade…

Big Hoss

 

[2TH MVR]

Why are the boomer dentists still going "I wouldn't attend if I only got into blah blah," bro, it's not 30 years ago when you had options that were always cheaper lol.

You answered your own question. Us "Boomers" had less expensive options. Dentistry made sense back then. Dentistry as a profession was very attractive. Now? Fewer cheaper options does not mean .... well .... lets attend ridiculously expensive dental schools since we have no other options.

This board is just suggesting that if you don't have other options other than attending a super expensive dental school .... then maybe dentistry is not for you. I cannot imagine servicing that insane amount of debt.

Life is expensive. Raising families is expensive. Saving for retirement is expensive. Etc. Etc. Etc. Add insane dental school debt to your other liabilities. Tough times.

 

[LFA20]

All of these career options....Less debt for sure...... but defintely not higher pay (in comparison to dentistry) if you calculate the hourly wage. And I believe some of them (crna) require just as much time to earn the degree as dentistry.

My college friend is a PA and currently works at Kasier hospital. He switched to PA after he applied for med schools twice and didn't get in. I got my DDS before he got his PA because he had also worked as a paramedic for a year or two before he applied for PA school. His wife is a nurse. I went to their house a couple of times. They seem to be doing ok financially. I currently treat his daughter.

I also have a friend who has a daughter who did her undergrad study at Cornell. She then took a gap year and worked as a CNA. Then she applied for PA schools and got accepted to one. Fortunately, my friend set up a college saving plan that helped pay for her daughter's education at Cornell, which wasn't cheap. Her daughter only had to take out loan for her PA school. If her daughter went to a much cheaper undergrad school, she would not have any student loan debt.

Certified Anesthesiology Assistant


CRNA


I agree that PA is on the lower end. If I had to advise pre-health students I'd tell them to pick the above. It's not unusual for both to make 250k+ with much lower debt ($120kish)

 

[charlestweed]

Certified Anesthesiology Assistant


CRNA


I agree that PA is on the lower end. If I had to advise pre-health students I'd tell them to pick the above. It's not unusual for both to make 250k+ with much lower debt ($120kish)

On my earlier post, I said if you calculate the hourly wage. If a dentist puts in the same amount of work hours (and works on the weekends) as the crna and caa, he/she can easily bring home more than $250k. Pablo Sanchez has only been out a few yrs and he makes $400k. The problem is many new grad dentists are not willing to work long hours and on the weekends (according to the corp manager whom I've known for 20+yrs).

My cousin is a MD anesthesiologist and he has a crazy work schedule. He says to my son that it's OK to pursue medicine but don't specialize in anesthesiology like him. He hates anesthesiology. I am sure the crna and caa also have crazy work hours like my cousin.

 

[LFA20]

On my earlier post, I said if you calculate the hourly wage. If a dentist puts in the same amount of work hours (and works on the weekends) as the crna and caa, he/she can easily bring home more than $250k. Pablo Sanchez has only been out a few yrs and he makes $400k. The problem is many new grad dentists are not willing to work long hours and on the weekends (according to the corp manager whom I've known for 20+yrs).

My cousin is a MD anesthesiologist and he has a crazy work schedule. He says to my son that it's OK to pursue medicine but don't specialize in anesthesiology like him. He hates anesthesiology. I am sure the crna and caa also have crazy work hours like my cousin.

Their debt load is a lot lower tho

 

[charlestweed]

Their debt load is a lot lower tho

True. And they should have easier time to pay off their debt than dentists......but they have to work harder, longer hours (and on the weekends) than dentists. Nothing in life is easy. Life is a series of trade-offs. The more sacrifice you make, the greater reward you will earn. This is why want my son to go into medicine because he has to work long hours....he won't have a choice to work short hours or on the weekdays only.

 

[deleted1047421]

Certified Anesthesiology Assistant


CRNA


I agree that PA is on the lower end. If I had to advise pre-health students I'd tell them to pick the above. It's not unusual for both to make 250k+ with much lower debt ($120kish)

If I only had the choice of crna, AA, PA, NP vs dentist… I’d still go to the most expensive dental school than to become any of those.

 

[juniordentist]

True. And they should have easier time to pay off their debt than dentists......but they have to work harder, longer hours (and on the weekends) than dentists. Nothing in life is easy. Life is a series of trade-offs. The more sacrifice you make, the greater reward you will earn. This is why want my son to go into medicine because he has to work long hours....he won't have a choice to work short hours or on the weekdays only.

This isn't true. "The more you sacrifice, the more reward" just isn't true in life. And this is why pre dents sign up for this huge debt. They think "well if it takes me 10 years living like a student to pay off my debt it must be worth it". No. Sometimes expensive things are actually just being taken advantage of. People have this view of "I studied all this extra time I should get paid more otherwise it's unfair". Yes, it is unfair. Life is unfair. There will be hygienists who go to a college, have lower debt, graduate earlier, get a relatively good paying job and invest well and end up richer than dentists. But people will just assume "well this path is harder is must be worth it". Not always true

 

[yappy]

This isn't true. "The more you sacrifice, the more reward" just isn't true in life. And this is why pre dents sign up for this huge debt. They think "well if it takes me 10 years living like a student to pay off my debt it must be worth it". No. Sometimes expensive things are actually just being taken advantage of. People have this view of "I studied all this extra time I should get paid more otherwise it's unfair". Yes, it is unfair. Life is unfair. There will be hygienists who go to a college, have lower debt, graduate earlier, get a relatively good paying job and invest well and end up richer than dentists. But people will just assume "well this path is harder is must be worth it". Not always true

Great point. No one is guaranteed success. I feel really bad for the people that sacrifice so much for a pot of gold that they will never have. The worst situation is when people don’t even like the career field.

 

[charlestweed]

This isn't true. "The more you sacrifice, the more reward" just isn't true in life. And this is why pre dents sign up for this huge debt. They think "well if it takes me 10 years living like a student to pay off my debt it must be worth it". No. Sometimes expensive things are actually just being taken advantage of. People have this view of "I studied all this extra time I should get paid more otherwise it's unfair". Yes, it is unfair. Life is unfair. There will be hygienists who go to a college, have lower debt, graduate earlier, get a relatively good paying job and invest well and end up richer than dentists. But people will just assume "well this path is harder is must be worth it". Not always true

The same can be said about medicine vs dentistry. In general, the pre med students work harder than the pre dent students because med schools are harder to get in. But doctors don’t make more money than dentists (again, if you look at the hourly wage). I spent 2 extra years to specialize but I don’t necessarily make more money than the general dentists. There are plenty of college grads who can’t find jobs and make less than people who don’t have a college degree. Going to school to earn a degree is just one of many stepping stones in your life. It’s what you do with your degree afterward. Just because you worked harder to get into Harvard, it doesn't mean that you're entitled to a better paying job than someone who went to a non-Ivy school. Just because you have a DDS degree doesn’t mean you are entitled to a good paying job.

Making sacrifice doesn’t just mean that you work hard. Of course, working hard is a big part. But you also have to give up many other things like your freedom when you share dorm with another college roommate, your ego when you have to work under a dental corp’s manager who only has a HS diploma, a nice doctor’s lifestyle at the beginning when you are drowning in debt, saving money for retirement (and continuing to live like you only make $50-60k a year), instead of spending it on cars and vacations etc……..AKA delayed gratification.

There are a lot of orthodontists who make more and work a lot less than me. I haven’t yet met an ortho who works on Sundays like me. Many of them graduated way after me and owe way more student loans than what I owed. They are more successful because they are better business people. They have better people skills. They pick the right location. They target the right population. They hire the right people to work for them. They work smarter. I don’t think it is unfair. They are just better than me. They beat me fair and square.

 

[deleted1047421]

There will be hygienists who go to a college, have lower debt, graduate earlier, get a relatively good paying job and invest well and end up richer than dentists.

Do you know hygienists that have a higher net worth than a dentist ? I can’t think of a single one.

It must also be a fair comparison. You can’t pick a hygienist who is in their 50s, dual income, vs a fresh dentist with student loans.

In all honesty all the dentists I know are doing well. They have a relatively easy job with minimal liability in comparison to their medical counterparts.

 

[deleted1047421]

I dont understand the specific hate towards USC/NYU when literally every single private school cost about the same insane prices when you actually compare the COA. Why are the boomer dentists still going "I wouldn't attend if I only got into blah blah," bro, it's not 30 years ago when you had options that were always cheaper lol.

Just wanted to follow up.

In my brief web surfing your comment is relatively correct.
Boston university
Columbia university
University of Pennsylvania
Harvard
NYU
USC

All these schools are pretty much in the same ball park with respect to cost of attendance.

There is no specific hate towards any particular school. Given the choice, and only given acceptance to these institutions I personally would attend usc out of all these schools given the nice weather.

 

[Thehighwind87]

If I only had the choice of crna, AA, PA, NP vs dentist… I’d still go to the most expensive dental school than to become any of those.

Do you know hygienists that have a higher net worth than a dentist ? I can’t think of a single one.

It must also be a fair comparison. You can’t pick a hygienist who is in their 50s, dual income, vs a fresh dentist with student loans.

In all honesty all the dentists I know are doing well. They have a relatively easy job with minimal liability in comparison to their medical counterparts.

My hygienists make about 110-120k package and this is new grad. 2 years associate degree from local college for 30-40k.

That’s a pretty sweet gig. If they pick up another shift as they work 4 days a week i- I can see it being 140-150k a year.

Not bad huh