USC First YR Cost of Attendance $162k 2022-2023

[Cold Front]

It never stops! Any takers?

2012: $114k (4% increase)
2013: $123k (8%)
2014: $127k (3%)
2015: $130k (2%)
2016: $134k (3%)
2017: $137k (2%)
2018: $140k (2%)
2019: $149k (6%)
2020: $152k (2%) (COVID-19, full remote learning)
2022: $154k (1%)
2023: $162k (5%)

*Loan origination fees (1-4%) and interest are not included.

*All post-doc programs fees are also up. Will cost additional $350-450k to specialize at this institution.

Paying for Dental School - Herman Ostrow School of Dentistry of USC

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[Big Time Hoosier]

If you are taking out loans to go here, you have literally lost your mind! The same could be said for NYU and many more.

Big Hoss

PS: As a reminder for the administrations at USC and NYU, my silence can be bought. This shows up in the mail, my account gets deleted. Simple enough. You prolly could pass the cost on to your students as a mandatory fee. Call it a “digital nuisance abatement fee.”

 

[psiyung]

Do not attend this university if you're taking out a loan. It is not worth it.

 

[somefuturedoc]

$650k total for 4 years lmaoooooo

 

[Cold Front]

If you are taking out loans to go here, you have literally lost your mind! The same could be said for NYU and many more.

Big Hoss

PS: As a reminder for the administrations at USC and NYU, my silence can be bought. This shows up in the mail, my account gets deleted. Simple enough. You prolly could pass the cost on to your students as a mandatory fee. Call it a “digital nuisance abatement fee.”

View attachment 353128

I agree. These schools should be shamed publicly for their predatory tuition and fees.

 

[Cold Front]

$650k total for 4 years lmaoooooo

Well... this is the actual maths:

First year (2022-2023) + interest for 4 years unsubsidized = 202k
Second year (tuition goes up 2023-2024) + interest for 3 years unsubsidized = 192k
Third year (tuition goes up again 2024-2025) + interest for 2 years unsubsidized = 186k
Fourth year (tuition goes up again 2025-2026) + interest for final year = 145k
Total true cost: 725k (if you are entering first year now, every year after - the total debt easily goes up 50-100k including interest).

People who are interviewing there this year should keep that in mind. You are looking at 750k minimum to graduate from there. The year after 800k, and so on. As debt goes up, it balloons faster.

This is the maths the schools don’t want the applicants to know.

If you decide to specialize at these insane schools, then your $1M debt will most likely never be paid off by your own.

 

[teethbtold]

This is the maths the schools don’t want the applicants to know

they actually go over this math during the financial aid presentation when you interview. they are very upfront about their cost and don’t hide it.

 

[Cold Front]

they actually go over this math during the financial aid presentation when you interview. they are very upfront about their cost and don’t hide it.

These kids/pre-dents are just elated to be given the opportunity to be a dentist. To some the goal is priceless, literally in their head. So the schools exploit that naive dream with 0 F’s given if the students default on the loan or have miserable financial lives. I doubt those presentations include the personal finances of the average practicing dentist... but ofcourse that’s conveniently left out.

 

[2TH MVR]

I would hate to be "that" student who is taking out loans to be at USC. I would think most of the students at USC have wealthy parents that pay the tuition. One of my neighbor's son is attending USC for some kind of drama degree. My neighbor always brags about "prestigious" USC and how much it costs him. I just nod my head and smile. OK. 🙄

 

[Dochopeful13]

If you are taking out loans to go here, you have literally lost your mind! The same could be said for NYU and many more.

Big Hoss

PS: As a reminder for the administrations at USC and NYU, my silence can be bought. This shows up in the mail, my account gets deleted. Simple enough. You prolly could pass the cost on to your students as a mandatory fee. Call it a “digital nuisance abatement fee.”

View attachment 353128

I’m just curious. Would doing OMFS make this tuition worth it?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Would doing OMFS make this tuition worth it?

As if one can just “do” OMFS. It has around a 50% Match rate. So what happens when you banked on OMFS but reality set in and now you’re a GP grinding away at a DSO?

Big Hoss

 

[Cold Front]

I would hate to be "that" student who is taking out loans to be at USC. I would think most of the students at USC have wealthy parents that pay the tuition. One of my neighbor's son is attending USC for some kind of drama degree. My neighbor always brags about "prestigious" USC and how much it costs him. I just nod my head and smile. OK. 🙄

It’s like Harvard Dental, which is now $500k+ in student loans too. So brand names are seen as upper social class, but all patients care about is can you get the work done comfortably and quickly. The return on investment in dental school when you go to Harvard/USC is actually lower compared to cheaper schools... say... U of Louisville KY. Once you are in any dental school, how hard you work within your cohort determines if you specialize or not. The rest is equal... except having good looks/easy on the eyes buys you a strong first impression at the admission.

 

[Cold Front]

I’m just curious. Would doing OMFS make this tuition worth it?

Would you bet close to 1M to get into OS? Or bet 300k?

 

[odontoblaster90210]

I’m just curious. Would doing OMFS make this tuition worth it?

Maybe, but with the increasing number of dental students per year (new schools keep opening), its getting harder and harder to match OMFS. The average CBSE of those who match increases every year. Also, there is a hard cap on the number of OMFS spots-its not easy to get approved to open an additional resident spot for OMFS. You need the appropriate case volume (trauma, OR cases, etc) to get approved by CODA to open an additional spot.

So, its not wise to go 600k-800k into debt banking on OMFS. Lots of people in my dental school class were going to be future oral surgeons during D1. Fast forward to D4, and just 6 were left who were applying. Out of those 6, 2 matched into OMFS. This is for a class size of about 100 students. So, as you can see, the odds are against you.

 

[GoDental101]

As much as I think it is a stupid decision to go to a school like this, I really don't blame the school. It's supply and demand. If they have a supply of 100 people each year to go 700k in debt to be a dentist then what's stopping the from continuing to raise those prices. If you are a pre-dental student that is smart enough to get into dental school then please be smart enough not to bury yourself in this because the prices are still going up and also please don't be dumb enough to think the government is going to bail you out of the mess you get yourself into.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

One of my neighbor's son is attending USC for some kind of drama degree. My neighbor always brags about "prestigious" USC and how much it costs him.

Tell your neighbor I’m sure his son will become a fabulous barista one day.

Big Hoss

 

[Dochopeful13]

Maybe, but with the increasing number of dental students per year (new schools keep opening), its getting harder and harder to match OMFS. The average CBSE of those who match increases every year. Also, there is a hard cap on the number of OMFS spots-its not easy to get approved to open an additional resident spot for OMFS. You need the appropriate case volume (trauma, OR cases, etc) to get approved by CODA to open an additional spot.

So, its not wise to go 600k-800k into debt banking on OMFS. Lots of people in my dental school class were going to be future oral surgeons during D1. Fast forward to D4, and just 6 were left who were applying. Out of those 6, 2 matched into OMFS. This is for a class size of about 100 students. So, as you can see, the odds are against you.

Was it a low cbse that kept them out?

 

[D1Bound]

I would hate to be "that" student who is taking out loans to be at USC. I would think most of the students at USC have wealthy parents that pay the tuition. One of my neighbor's son is attending USC for some kind of drama degree. My neighbor always brags about "prestigious" USC and how much it costs him. I just nod my head and smile. OK. 🙄

I looked up to someone who attended college earlier 2000s. Before the great recession I definitely looked at university all googly eyed like it was this huge honor. I’m now completely unfazed on where someone went to school. You know what I think is prestigious? Having financial freedom, a paid off home, the ability to retire early, “buying” your time back so to speak, these things to me tell me a lot about a person

 

[yappy]

I’m just curious. Would doing OMFS make this tuition worth it?

No. Not when there are much cheaper alternatives. I know oms who are in struggling practices, or slow, and others who complain about their loans that went to expensive dental schools. Better to go to a cheaper school.

 

[Cold Front]

I looked up to someone who attended college earlier 2000s. Before the great recession I definitely looked at university all googly eyed like it was this huge honor. I’m now completely unfazed on where someone went to school. You know what I think is prestigious? Having financial freedom, a paid off home, the ability to retire early, “buying” your time back so to speak, these things to me tell me a lot about a person

It took just 10 yrs for USC to go from 114k first yr COA to 162k before interest. It will take them even less to get to 200-250k to be a freshman if they keep at the current 3-5% rate increases. Remember, current inflation is 40 year high now, so I can see them raising tuition and fees even faster over the next few years. It’s insane!

 

[D1Bound]

It took just 10 yrs for USC to go from 114k first yr COA to 162k before interest. It will take them even less to get to 200-250k to be a freshman if they keep at the current 3-5% rate increases. Remember, current inflation is 40 year high now, so I can see them raising tuition and fees even faster over the next few years. It’s insane!

I guess USC will cease to exist at some point. There is a line that students will not cross for tuition. I think we are getting close

 

[GoDental101]

I guess USC will cease to exist at some point. There is a line that students will not cross for tuition. I think we are getting close

There’s a line that I wouldn’t cross which is about 300k. You probably have a line as well, but there will still be a line of people lining up to sign up for whatever loans USC asks them to pay to go to dental school because there are so many ignorant/naive/desperate people that are interested in this career.

 

[Cold Front]

There’s a line that I wouldn’t cross which is about 300k. You probably have a line as well, but there will still be a line of people lining up to sign up for whatever loans USC asks them to pay to go to dental school because there are so many ignorant/naive/desperate people that are interested in this career.

True. I also think there is some level of irrational exuberance at play. When pre-dents strongly believe the success of dentists they know/shadowed/public perception, all of which graduated 20+ years ago, are good predictors of a career in dentistry. The pre-dents then assume there is minimal risk or uncertainty which leads to a positive feedback loop when people who are not in the dental field empowers them more to pursue dentistry; like their friends and families. Now all that confidence leads to very large volume of applicants, and since there are more expensive schools than cheap schools these days, the majority of pre-dents get themselves into a big debt school. I bet we would never talk someone who got into USC out of attending there. It would take more than them taking the 720k in loans and interest. It’s like a bride and groom trying to call off their wedding at the last second when all the guests showed up at the venue, they would rather just get through with it than embarrassing themselves. It’s scary how a poorly misplaced planning can lead to a major life changing financial decision and consequences.

 

[Undecided__]

Wow… this is an ungodly amount

 

[deleted903013]

As much as I think it is a stupid decision to go to a school like this, I really don't blame the school. It's supply and demand. If they have a supply of 100 people each year to go 700k in debt to be a dentist then what's stopping the from continuing to raise those prices. If you are a pre-dental student that is smart enough to get into dental school then please be smart enough not to bury yourself in this because the prices are still going up and also please don't be dumb enough to think the government is going to bail you out of the mess you get yourself into.

Big disagree. Just because the free market allows something it absolutely DOES NOT mean it should be legal or is moral. If the free market means 18 year olds can sell their entire futures for English degrees that will financially ruin them forever then I guess I don't believe in the free market. Humans, especially naive 20 year olds with no real life experience, deserve more dignity than be allowed to sell their entire lives for a stupid degree. The blame absolutely falls on the school. The students are victims and deserve to be protected from predators. There is a point at which exploitation is too much for someone to consent to. This is why research medical studies can't pay people millions of dollars to participate in a dangerous drug trial or why it's illegal to sell your kidney for 500k. Moreover, by your logic, indentured servitude should be allowed as long as long as supply and demand allows it and two parties consent. You're saying the equivalent of telling indentured servants they should've been smart enough not to become an indentured servant when society should've protected them and never allowed it in the first place. My heart sincerely goes out to pre dents duped into going to USC. They're victims of exploitation.

 

[deleted903013]

I bet we would never talk someone who got into USC out of attending there. It would take more than them taking the 720k in loans and interest.

Hence why what they're charging shouldn't be legal.

 

[PerioDont]

True. I also think there is some level of irrational exuberance at play. When pre-dents strongly believe the success of dentists they know/shadowed/public perception, all of which graduated 20+ years ago, are good predictors of a career in dentistry. The pre-dents then assume there is minimal risk or uncertainty which leads to a positive feedback loop when people who are not in the dental field empowers them more to pursue dentistry; like their friends and families. Now all that confidence leads to very large volume of applicants, and since there are more expensive schools than cheap schools these days, the majority of pre-dents get themselves into a big debt school. I bet we would never talk someone who got into USC out of attending there. It would take more than them taking the 720k in loans and interest. It’s like a bride and groom trying to call off their wedding at the last second when all the guests showed up at the venue, they would rather just get through with it than embarrassing themselves. It’s scary how a poorly misplaced planning can lead to a major life changing financial decision and consequences.

at this point I can not recommend dentistry as a career to the vast majority of people I know.

It is very sad as I think it can be a good career, but the COA almost everywhere is just not worth it.

There are some residents specializing in our program that will be graduating with close to 1million in debt. tragic.

 

[GoDental101]

Big disagree. Just because the free market allows something it absolutely DOES NOT mean it should be legal or is moral. If the free market means 18 year olds can sell their entire futures for English degrees that will financially ruin them forever then I guess I don't believe in the free market. Humans, especially naive 20 year olds with no real life experience, deserve more dignity than be allowed to sell their entire lives for a stupid degree. The blame absolutely falls on the school. The students are victims and deserve to be protected from predators. There is a point at which exploitation is too much for someone to consent to. This is why research medical studies can't pay people millions of dollars to participate in a dangerous drug trial or why it's illegal to sell your kidney for 500k. Moreover, by your logic, indentured servitude should be allowed as long as long as supply and demand allows it and two parties consent. You're saying the equivalent of telling indentured servants they should've been smart enough not to become an indentured servant when society should've protected them and never allowed it in the first place. My heart sincerely goes out to pre dents duped into going to USC. They're victims of exploitation.

So here's where the problem lies in my opinion. You say the blame falls on the schools. I'd say the schools are just following supply and demand. So are the students. The only reason the demand for a seat in a dental school is able to continue to rise without regard to cost is simply due to government intervention. If the government didn't back/supply these loans then you would see the free market correct the cost.

 

[GoDental101]

However, what is the main argument for allowing the government to maintain dominion over the student loans?

This is just off wikipedia, but anyways the whole thing starts with one problem which the government intervention tried to fix, but just leads to the problems you stated.

 

[Cold Front]

The blame absolutely falls on the school.

The blame squarely falls on the GOVERNMENT, for handing out blank checks. Even though they have the right intentions, it encouraged schools to exploit the students.

 

[Cold Front]

Hence why what they're charging shouldn't be legal.

It is and should be legal. I can charge $10k for an exam at my office. But will a dental insurance reimburse me the $10,000? Absolutely not. Will I see many patients? Nope. That’s how the government should handle the student debt crisis... just like they increase interest rates when inflation or unemployment goes up. There should be breakers in the system, so the market participants (the schools in this case) can fall inline with the expectations.

 

[Cold Front]

There are some residents specializing in our program that will be graduating with close to 1million in debt. tragic.

USC ortho is about 450k with interest now. It’s a country club over there.

 

[Undecided__]

at this point I can not recommend dentistry as a career to the vast majority of people I know.

It is very sad as I think it can be a good career, but the COA almost everywhere is just not worth it.

There are some residents specializing in our program that will be graduating with close to 1million in debt. tragic.

How much do you think a student should take out for dentistry to be worth it?

I’ll be taking out abt $250k ( chances to get scholarships my D2-D4 years),., assuming i don’t get any scholarships, my total amount will be $300k….

 

[GoDental101]

How much do you think a student should take out for dentistry to be worth it?

I’ll be taking out abt $250k ( chances to get scholarships my D2-D4 years),., assuming i don’t get any scholarships, my total amount will be $300k….

No need to ask how much to take out to be worth it. Go to the financial aid calculator put in different amounts of loans and calculate how much money that you will be paying towards student loans. Then make a estimated budget of your life after dental school including an estimated post-grad income (be realistic or be willing to go where the supply of dentists is low and the demand for dentists is high aka rural areas) and see if you can make that budget work for you while paying off those loans. Don't forget subtract taxes from the estimated income as well.

 

[Undecided__]

No need to ask how much to take out to be worth it. Go to the financial aid calculator put in different amounts of loans and calculate how much money that you will be paying towards student loans. Then make a estimated budget of your life after dental school including an income of about 150k and see if you can make that budget work for you while paying off those loans. Don't forget subtract taxes from the estimated income as well.

I’ve done that. I didn’t calculate est payments on the government website; i think i used sallie mae’s website…

I was asking because i know dentists have other fees, like insurance, malpractice, and maybe ada fees. I’m not really sure of the fees

Even before starting dental school, there’s fees I didn’t know we had like getting scrubs (i thought tuition paid this), joining clubs, buying loupes(thought tuition paid this) + other stuff…

 

[GoDental101]

I’ve done that. I didn’t calculate est payments on the government website; i think i used sallie mae’s website…

I was asking because i know dentists have other fees, like insurance, malpractice, and maybe ada fees. I’m not really sure of the fees

Even before starting dental school, there’s fees I didn’t know we had like getting scrubs (i thought tuition paid this), joining clubs, buying loupes(thought tuition paid this) + other stuff…

Just do some research. You can easily obtain the cost of everything you listed by looking it up. No one will watch out for your financial future as diligently or attentively as yourself. Good luck!

 

[yappy]

Big disagree. Just because the free market allows something it absolutely DOES NOT mean it should be legal or is moral. If the free market means 18 year olds can sell their entire futures for English degrees that will financially ruin them forever then I guess I don't believe in the free market. Humans, especially naive 20 year olds with no real life experience, deserve more dignity than be allowed to sell their entire lives for a stupid degree. The blame absolutely falls on the school. The students are victims and deserve to be protected from predators. There is a point at which exploitation is too much for someone to consent to. This is why research medical studies can't pay people millions of dollars to participate in a dangerous drug trial or why it's illegal to sell your kidney for 500k. Moreover, by your logic, indentured servitude should be allowed as long as long as supply and demand allows it and two parties consent. You're saying the equivalent of telling indentured servants they should've been smart enough not to become an indentured servant when society should've protected them and never allowed it in the first place. My heart sincerely goes out to pre dents duped into going to USC. They're victims of exploitation.

Everyone is free to make choices for their life. Therefore, It is the responsibility of the consumer to do their due diligence. These institutions are not breaking the law or breaking contracts. They are providing a product with transparent costs.

I think the problem we’re facing today is that market forces have been removed and from the student loan/ higher ed industry. The government is terrible at managing capital and what we’re seeing is the result of that the higher education industry. Government backed student loans are fueling the bubble.

 

[bracketbuster68]

Big disagree. Just because the free market allows something it absolutely DOES NOT mean it should be legal or is moral. If the free market means 18 year olds can sell their entire futures for English degrees that will financially ruin them forever then I guess I don't believe in the free market. Humans, especially naive 20 year olds with no real life experience, deserve more dignity than be allowed to sell their entire lives for a stupid degree. The blame absolutely falls on the school. The students are victims and deserve to be protected from predators. There is a point at which exploitation is too much for someone to consent to. This is why research medical studies can't pay people millions of dollars to participate in a dangerous drug trial or why it's illegal to sell your kidney for 500k. Moreover, by your logic, indentured servitude should be allowed as long as long as supply and demand allows it and two parties consent. You're saying the equivalent of telling indentured servants they should've been smart enough not to become an indentured servant when society should've protected them and never allowed it in the first place. My heart sincerely goes out to pre dents duped into going to USC. They're victims of exploitation.

Right on the money. The schools and the government are working hand-in-hand and students are getting shortchanged. This is why I'll never donate a dime to a university.

 

[deleted903013]

Everyone is free to make choices for their life. Therefore, It is the responsibility of the consumer to do their due diligence. These institutions are not breaking the law or breaking contracts. They are providing a product with transparent costs.

So should someone be free to become an indentured servant if they as a consumer do their due diligence? Can a despondent person sell their kidney for half a million dollars as long as they're a consumer who's done their homework? I'm not a libertarian so I don't believe they should.

The blame squarely falls on the GOVERNMENT, for handing out blank checks. Even though they have the right intentions, it encouraged schools to exploit the students.

Agreed. Schools only take part of the blame. The government is essentially what allows the schools to charge whatever they want.

It is and should be legal. I can charge $10k for an exam at my office. But will a dental insurance reimburse me the $10,000? Absolutely not. Will I see many patients? Nope. That’s how the government should handle the student debt crisis... just like they increase interest rates when inflation or unemployment goes up. There should be breakers in the system, so the market participants (the schools in this case) can fall inline with the expectations.

I am totally with you the government deserves blame and reeling them in can fix the problem. But what I'm saying is even if the market forces allowed someone to sell their entirely financial souls at the age of 18 it still shouldn't be legal. Seeing people blame naive 20 year olds with no financial experience instead of the schools or government is disheartening to me.

 

[GoDental101]

Agreed. Schools only take part of the blame. The government is essentially what allows the schools to charge whatever they want.

It's not about the government allowing the schools to charge a certain amount. It's about the government not stepping in with federal funding to allow anyone to take on any amount of debt.

The way you see it is that the government needs to be more involved by limiting the price the schools can charge, but what you don't see is that will also create problems of it's own.

It's a slight difference in the way to look at it, but an important difference.

I am totally with you the government deserves blame and reeling them in can fix the problem. But what I'm saying is even if the market forces allowed someone to sell their entirely financial souls at the age of 18 it still shouldn't be legal. Seeing people blame naive 20 year olds with no financial experience instead of the schools or government is disheartening to me.

Think about any type of loan you can get in the free market. You can go bankrupt and lose that loan. Only with these federal loans can you literally go bankrupt and still have that loan tied to you. The free market would have corrected this price problem itself once people in absorbent amounts of debt from school started going bankrupt to get rid of the debt because the consequence of bankruptcy would be less than trying to pay off the debt itself. The free market would have corrected for this by limiting the amount they would loan to students. Then the schools would literally not be able to fill their seats if their prices were too high.

 

[8_man]

Do not attend this university if you're taking out a loan. It is not worth it.

Even if my parents had $600K cash to pay off my tuition, I would much rather keep that and do something else with my life lol

 

[deleted903013]

It's not about the government allowing the schools to charge a certain amount. It's about the government not stepping in with federal funding to allow anyone to take on any amount of debt.

The way you see it is that the government needs to be more involved by limiting the price the schools can charge, but what you don't see is that will also create problems of it's own.

It's a slight difference in the way to look at it, but an important difference.

I understand this. That was the point I was making. The only reason USC can charge 700k is because the government can back it guaranteed. I've made numerous previous posts on that the government needs to get out of the business of guaranteeing student loans no matter the cost.I think I even made a post about this two weeks ago.

Think about any type of loan you can get in the free market. You can go bankrupt and lose that loan. Only with these federal loans can you literally go bankrupt and still have that loan tied to you. The free market would have corrected this price problem itself once people in absorbent amounts of debt from school started going bankrupt to get rid of the debt because the consequence of bankruptcy would be less than trying to pay off the debt itself. The free market would have corrected for this by limiting the amount they would loan to students. Then the schools would literally not be able to fill their seats if their prices were too high.

Again, I largely agree. I think bringing back a reasonable market force could fix the problem or at least make things much better. My point still is that markets need to be constrained to still not exploit people in many situations. Even if we had a perfect free market involved right now in this situation that doesn't give schools the right to financially bankrupt 20 year olds. I don't worship the free market. We should stop it when it gets out of hand, which it often does.

 

[GoDental101]

I understand this. That was the point I was making. The only reason USC can charge 700k is because the government can back it guaranteed. I've made numerous previous posts on that the government needs to get out of the business of guaranteeing student loans no matter the cost.I think I even made a post about this two weeks ago.

Again, I largely agree. I think bringing back a reasonable market force could fix the problem or at least make things much better. My point still is that markets need to be constrained to still not exploit people in many situations. Even if we had a perfect free market involved right now in this situation that doesn't give schools the right to financially bankrupt 20 year olds. I don't worship the free market. We should stop it when we it gets out of hand, which it often does.

I agree with most of what your saying as well. The thing is the schools would not be able to financially bankrupt young adults because they would not be able to obtain funding to afford to go to schools like USC. So the only people going to schools like this would have adequate financial backing for a 700k dental school and if there was not 100 students out there that either had that backing or were willing to pay that price then the USC price would then decrease. However, I believe there will also be schools out there that vary tremendously in cost due to factors like location, prestige, etc.

What your saying is like saying a 20 year old shouldn't be able to buy a Ferrari because they are so expensive. Why don't we have the government make it so Ferrari can't charge so much money. Well if that happened then a Ferrari would no longer be able to be a Ferrari.

Schools like NYU, USC, UOP etc are located in expensive cities, they have to pay they professors more money to afford the higher cost of living, their building is more expensive to maintain the list goes on and on. At some point USC dental would cease to be able to be USC dental if the government stepped in and said you can't charge more than 50k a year per student.

 

[Teeth and Titanite]

These kids/pre-dents are just elated to be given the opportunity to be a dentist. To some the goal is priceless, literally in their head. So the schools exploit that naive dream with 0 F’s given if the students default on the loan or have miserable financial lives. I doubt those presentations include the personal finances of the average practicing dentist... but ofcourse that’s conveniently left out.

In any case, students taking out loans do have to complete some loan counseling on the FAFSA website. On one page it gave me a 4 year estimate of my total loans. Then I remember it asked me what income I expected to earn as a general dentist. I played around with that and started increasing it from the preset number of $150k. It wasn't until I increased it to $220k the calculator stopped saying something like "not recommended." Then once I got to $300k the calculator started indicating my dental school was worth it lol. So seems the government is pushing the 1:1 debt to income ratio, and students attending the super-expensive schools on loans are ignoring some super-direct warnings.

 

[Cold Front]

Seeing people blame naive 20 year olds with no financial experience instead of the schools or government is disheartening to me.

The students do have a skin in the problem. Ultimately, it’s their decision to take the insane debt. How many people made the best financial decisions in their lives at age 20?

The “least” informed stakeholder in the process are the students, while the government and schools are highly informed about the weight on putting 500-800k debt on a 20 yr old’s shoulders. I still think the endgame is some form of write off/forgiveness/stimulus that will put out this long ignored crisis. I think Biden will pull the trigger on it, just a hunch.

 

[Cold Front]

In any case, students taking out loans do have to complete some loan counseling on the FAFSA website. On one page it gave me a 4 year estimate of my total loans. Then I remember it asked me what income I expected to earn as a general dentist. I played around with that and started increasing it from the preset number of $150k. It wasn't until I increased it to $220k the calculator stopped saying something like "not recommended." Then once I got to $300k the calculator started indicating my dental school was worth it lol. So seems the government is pushing the 1:1 debt to income ratio, and students attending the super-expensive schools on loans are ignoring some super-direct warnings.

So you’re saying there is a pre-check financial tool that warns borrowers, but there are no actual underwriters to confirm if the borrower is actually telling the truth or not before the big money is released. That’s wild!

 

[Teeth and Titanite]

So you’re saying there is a pre-check financial tool that warns borrowers, but there are no actual underwriters to confirm if the borrower is actually telling the truth or not before the big money is released. That’s wild!

Yep pretty much, that money was guaranteed to me regardless of what I put in.

 

[GoDental101]

The students do have a skin in the problem. Ultimately, it’s their decision to take the insane debt. How many people made the best financial decisions in their lives at age 20?

The “least” informed stakeholder in the process are the students, while the government and schools are highly informed about the weight on putting 500-800k debt on a 20 yr old’s shoulders. I still think the endgame is some form of write off/forgiveness/stimulus that will put out this long ignored crisis. I think Biden will pull the trigger on it, just a hunch.

Maybe on the scale of 10k-40k but no way are they going to forgiven the 500k debt of the dentist making 200k a year. There’s many more people with bigger issues then to worry about the poor dentists and doctors student loan debt.

 

[D1Bound]

USC ortho is about 450k with interest now. It’s a country club over there.

That makes these newer private programs look like a dream🤣

 

[D1Bound]

True. I also think there is some level of irrational exuberance at play. When pre-dents strongly believe the success of dentists they know/shadowed/public perception, all of which graduated 20+ years ago, are good predictors of a career in dentistry. The pre-dents then assume there is minimal risk or uncertainty which leads to a positive feedback loop when people who are not in the dental field empowers them more to pursue dentistry; like their friends and families. Now all that confidence leads to very large volume of applicants, and since there are more expensive schools than cheap schools these days, the majority of pre-dents get themselves into a big debt school. I bet we would never talk someone who got into USC out of attending there. It would take more than them taking the 720k in loans and interest. It’s like a bride and groom trying to call off their wedding at the last second when all the guests showed up at the venue, they would rather just get through with it than embarrassing themselves. It’s scary how a poorly misplaced planning can lead to a major life changing financial decision and consequences.

This is a key thing. When I first shadowed I did not think about the lead time from dentistry in that present situation to what it may be like when I graduated. I feel the winds have definitely changed when I first shadowed early 2010s. I’m now considering specializing which I never thought I’d do. This is in part due to how the game has changed