USNWR Best Med Schools 2023

[NegativeMargin]

My post wasn't about NYU...? lol

To be clear, I'm referring to my thoughts on PD ratings. I have no hate for NYU haha

Thanks for the link in your response, I didn't actually know that about PD rankings, though I do still take pretty much everything with a big grain of salt regardless.

.... and potentially hurting students who depend on it when choosing schools.

How is that not on the students who choose to read into an obviously biased system? When I read a research article I have to further educate myself beyond the scope of the actual research being done, so I understand the reality surrounding the topic enough to gauge the researchers bias.. but that doesn't mean I ignore the research, just like it means I don't ignore all these rankings. If I dismissed every biased piece of information I've received pertaining to healthcare and my endeavors in it, I'd be far less educated. Seeing through the bull**** is part of the process isn't it?

If anything I would argue that if people are going to be doing something for future physicians (like me) it should be to educate them that bias is everywhere and you need to operate under the assumption that you need to have the skill necessary to see it.. if they get fooled by the USNWR, then they will get eaten alive once they leave the relative safety of these schools.. and that's just from my perspective as a 30 year old non-trad, I can't imagine the predator schemes that exist in medicine where orders of magnitude more power and money are changing hands.

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[Mr.Smile12]

How is that not on the students who choose to read into an obviously biased system? When I read a research article I have to further educate myself beyond the scope of the actual research being done, so I understand the reality surrounding the topic enough to gauge the researchers bias.. but that doesn't mean I ignore the research, just like it means I don't ignore all these rankings. If I dismissed every biased piece of information I've received pertaining to healthcare and my endeavors in it, I'd be far less educated. Seeing through the bull**** is part of the process isn't it?

If anything I would argue that if people are going to be doing something for future physicians (like me) it should be to educate them that bias is everywhere and you need to operate under the assumption that you need to have the skill necessary to see it.. if they get fooled by the USNWR, then they will get eaten alive once they leave the relative safety of these schools.. and that's just from my perspective as a 30 year old non-trad, I can't imagine the predator schemes that exist in medicine where orders of magnitude more power and money are changing hands.

Just agreeing... critical thinking is an expected "competency".

 

[deleted1065184]

It's fascinating to me that some of y'all have such a black/white view on what it means if a student pays too much attention to USNWR. Maybe y'all haven't paid much attention on here, but an enormous chunk of entering students take the research ranking and PD ratings very seriously....and so do many school administrators (after all, they do still play the game, when they could absolutely just stop participating en masse).

The idea that premeds should be good at critical appraisal is unrealistic, imo. It is something that needs to be taught and reinforced IN medical school. Heck, I know plenty of physicians who are weak in this area and could use some classes.

I just feel we need to give students more grace instead of writing every student who doesn't see through USNWR's seemingly obvious BS as being unfit for the profession. Reasoning skills are taught. My post earlier explained the issues with PD because I know for a fact that many (maybe most) people here are not going to investigate or critically appraise the methodology. But I don't think less of people for not having done it.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

to be fair, I think that more people than ever are reluctant to attend mid to low tier schools because of pass/fail step 1. Since it’s hard to know whether students from low tier MD schools will still be able to get competitive specialties, the weight of US News on applicant decisions will be higher than ever.

In the past, some students passed on T20s due to merit aid, location etc. I would bet that this is no longer the case.

 

[deleted1065184]

Wouldn't be surprised if it's more pronounced now for those reasons, but the obsession with USNWR has always been prevalent.

 

[KnightDoc]

to be fair, I think that more people than ever are reluctant to attend mid to low tier schools because of pass/fail step 1. Since it’s hard to know whether students from low tier MD schools will still be able to get competitive specialties, the weight of US News on applicant decisions will be higher than ever.

In the past, some students passed on T20s due to merit aid, location etc. I would bet that this is no longer the case.

And I would happily take that bet! All things equal, people love to obsess on the rankings. Rich kids whose parents are footing the bill also tend to chase prestige. Always have, always will.

Other than that, people borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend med school have always placed costs above prestige. They have been willing to pay a modest premium for bragging rights, better match lists, whatever. But most people needing to borrow have always had a monetary line they were unwilling to cross (an extra $50K, $100K, whatever), and I haven't seen that change just because step 1 went P/F.

EVERYONE who knows what they are talking about, rather than just nervous premeds, has said that step 2 will replace step 1, not that USNWR rankings will. So, yeah, I'll take the bet that people are still dropping T20s to attend lower cost, lower ranked, public schools, as well as other lower ranked schools that offer a significantly lower COA through attractive scholarships or lower tuition.

Why would you even say this? Just how reluctant are you to attend a mid to lower tier school?

Top students have always chosen to attend lower ranked schools, for a variety of reason, and they have historically done well, as evidenced by the fact that just about every school has at least a few very impressive matches each year. Until anyone has evidence to the contrary, it is total BS to speculate that step 1 going P/F is going to translate to a death sentence for people at lower tier programs, as determined by external ranking lists, who aspire to competitive specialties.

 

[Browns99]

A student who depend on USNews when choosing schools is a fool who will get what they deserve.

I think that's a little over the top. Sure,I mean the USNews rankings should not be the deciding factor, but one can certainly get a rough idea of what schools are in the top/mid/low tiers. Although we hate to admit it, prestige will help with residencies down the road, so you can see why it may be ONE criteria an applicant looks for in choosing a school and the rankings shed some light on that.

 

[Browns99]

And I would happily take that bet! All things equal, people love to obsess on the rankings. Rich kids whose parents are footing the bill also tend to chase prestige. Always have, always will.

Other than that, people borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend med school have always placed costs above prestige. They have been willing to pay a modest premium for bragging rights, better match lists, whatever. But most people needing to borrow have always had a monetary line they were unwilling to cross (an extra $50K, $100K, whatever), and I haven't seen that change just because step 1 went P/F.

EVERYONE who knows what they are talking about, rather than just nervous premeds, has said that step 2 will replace step 1, not that USNWR rankings will. So, yeah, I'll take the bet that people are still dropping T20s to attend lower cost, lower ranked, public schools, as well as other lower ranked schools that offer a significantly lower COA through attractive scholarships or lower tuition.

Why would you even say this? Just how reluctant are you to attend a mid to lower tier school?

Top students have always chosen to attend lower ranked schools, for a variety of reason, and they have historically done well, as evidenced by the fact that just about every school has at least a few very impressive matches each year. Until anyone has evidence to the contrary, it is total BS to speculate that step 1 going P/F is going to translate to a death sentence for people at lower tier programs, as determined by external ranking lists, who aspire to competitive specialties.

I tend to somewhat disagree with this...."it is total BS to speculate that step 1 going P/F is going to translate to a death sentence for people at lower tier programs, as determined by external ranking lists, who aspire to competitive specialties."

Of course it will not be a death sentence, but I don't think one can argue that school prestige, which has always been weighed by residency programs, will likely weigh somewhat more after step went to p/f.

 

[KnightDoc]

I tend to somewhat disagree with this...."it is total BS to speculate that step 1 going P/F is going to translate to a death sentence for people at lower tier programs, as determined by external ranking lists, who aspire to competitive specialties."

Of course it will not be a death sentence, but I don't think one can argue that school prestige, which has always been weighed by residency programs, will likely weigh somewhat more after step went to p/f.

You and I really don't disagree at all! We agree it's not a death sentence, which is what @voxveritatisetlucis was implying in saying "In the past, some students passed on T20s due to merit aid, location etc. I would bet that this is no longer the case." He is betting that no students will turn down T20s due to the change, and I'd like to take that bet.

Beyond that, the SDN premed speculation has been that prestige, as measured by the rankings, will take on greater importance with step 1 going P/F. OTOH, each and every adcom and other knowledgeable insider has stated that is nonsense, and that step 2 will replace step 1. Full stop. This is not to say that prestige won't be a factor going forward. It's just saying it won't be any more of a factor than before.

Of course, no one knows for sure what's going to happen until it happens. If it would make anyone comfortable to spend more than they otherwise would to buy some T20 insurance, it's their money. Other than money, and maybe being somewhere for 4 years other than where a student really wants to be, it's hard to argue that going T20 over a lower ranked option is ever a mistake. But, yes, based on preliminary feedback from those on the inside, I can certainly make an argument that school prestige will not likely be weighed any more in residency program determinations now than when step 1 released numerical scores.

 

[carbonylcarbon]

Beyond that, the SDN premed speculation has been that prestige, as measured by the rankings, will take on greater importance with step 1 going P/F. OTOH, each and every adcom and other knowledgeable insider has stated that is nonsense, and that step 2 will replace step 1. Full stop. This is not to say that prestige won't be a factor going forward. It's just saying it won't be any more of a factor than before.

I think this is a bit of an overstatement.

Internal medicine residency program director perceptions of USMLE Step 1 pass/fail scoring: A cross-sectional survey

The United States Medical Licensing Examination Step 1 will transition to a pass/fail exam starting no earlier than January 2022. Internal medicine residency programs will need to adapt to these changes. The purpose of this study was to investigate:1. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Obviously this doesn't capture every program director's view, but there are at least some that disagree with your position on this.

"123 (22.45%) program directors responded to the survey. A majority do not support the pass/fail change (73.99%), and feel that the transition to pass/fail did not involve all stakeholders (78.87%). Most believe that a greater importance will now be placed on Step 2 Clinical Knowledge (CK) exam results (87.81%), personal knowledge of the applicant (66.67%), grades in required clerkships (66.67%), audition elective/rotation with their own department (64.22%), letters of recommendation from medicine faculty that they recognize/know (56.10%), Medical Student Performance Evaluation/Dean’s Letter (52.03%), and graduation from a highly-regarded U.S. medical school (51.22%). While most believe that allopathic students attending highly-regarded schools will be advantaged (55.28%), a majority also believe that international medical graduates (82.93%), allopathic students who do not attend a highly-regarded medical school (63.42%), and osteopathic students (52.03%) will be disadvantaged."

 

[inoffensivepersona]

For med school or undergrad?

If the latter, it’s probably the 5th best Ivy. and that’s not even including Stanford or MIT. I’d say for Ivy only it’s Harvard>Yale>Princeton>Penn>Columbia>Dartmouth>Brown>Cornell

Of course as with med school, there is really no difference in opportunities from any school within the top 15ish and one would have any opportunity they want coming from Columbia. Based on match lists, it actually seems like there is more difference between top 5 med schools vs the next 15 compared to the difference between top 5 colleges and next 15

I’m curious what are you basing any of this on? If anything?

Regarding the Columbia article, I can definitely see a lot of truth in what Professor Thaddeus is saying. However, as someone who took his classes for two semesters, I think his piece is an attempt at stroking his already inflated ego. I would’ve expected that if he wanted to be taken more seriously, he would’ve attempted to write a more rigorous and professional paper (he is a mathematician after all) about the phenomenon he purports to care about. Instead, his work seems like an attempt to portray himself as above the fray.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

allopathic students who do not attend a highly-regarded medical school (63.42%), and osteopathic students (52.03%) will be disadvantaged."

How does this make sense?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I’m curious what are you basing any of this on? If anything?

Regarding the Columbia article, I can definitely see a lot of truth in what Professor Thaddeus is saying. However, as someone who took his classes for two semesters, I think his piece is an attempt at stroking his already inflated ego. I would’ve expected that if he wanted to be taken more seriously, he would’ve attempted to write a more rigorous and professional paper (he is a mathematician after all) about the phenomenon he purports to care about. Instead, his work seems like an attempt to portray himself as above the fray.

Columbia is a great school, don’t get me wrong and of course ratings are subjective but as somebody working in an industry that values prestige (to a much greater extent than medicine), this is the general consensus. Penn really gets boosted by Wharton

 

[GoSpursGo]

"123 (22.45%) program directors responded to the survey.

Just throwing this out there--this is a major, major limitation to this survey that shouldn't be glossed over. You're getting the opinion of PDs who were inclined to reply to the survey, not the opinion of all PDs.

How does this make sense?

Basically saying that if you went to a "low-tier" school you have lost your chance to stand out with a Step 1 score.

 

[Mad Jack]

List is updated. Disclaimer: rankings are for entertainment purposes only. Enjoy!

https://premium.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings

Psh. Research rankings. Show me the primary care rankings, the real rankings that matter

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Just throwing this out there--this is a major, major limitation to this survey that shouldn't be glossed over. You're getting the opinion of PDs who were inclined to reply to the survey, not the opinion of all PDs.

Basically saying that if you went to a "low-tier" school you have lost your chance to stand out with a Step 1 score.

But how wouldn’t of affect osteopathic as much or more than low tier MD?

 

[GoSpursGo]

But how wouldn’t of affect osteopathic as much or more than low tier MD?

Survey was conducted in August 2020. NBOME announced COMLEX level 1 would go pass/fail in December 2020. So they presumably thought they would still get COMLEX scores on DO students.

 

[DZ2106]

But how wouldn’t of affect osteopathic as much or more than low tier MD?

I think it’s political; MDs don’t feel comfortable saying that DOs are disadvantaged with regards to residency

 

[nimbus]

Psh. Research rankings. Show me the primary care rankings, the real rankings that matter

3 schools are in the top 10 for both categories.

 

[KnightDoc]

How does this make sense?

It doesn't. It's nothing more than the results of a survey returned by 22% of PDs. For reasons discussed elsewhere, survey results with such a low response rate are meaningless, although, apparently, a lot of people would rather have than something than nothing, even if it has no statistical significance.

I'm sticking with my conclusions, based on the fact that 88% of the 22% stated that step 2 would increase in importance while only 51% of the 22% stated the same for med school prestige. Without knowing what the remaining 78% think, quoting from this survey is really kind of pointless.

 

[deleted314957]

When NYU climbed in the rankings due to money provided by NIH to replace a freezer farm destroyed in Super Storm Sandy, the jig was up and everyone could see what a charade these rankings are.

USSnooze charges schools a fee to place the USNews "top whatever" icon on their websites and promotional materials so this is a money maker for the list maker.

I AM SHOCKED! They don’t do this out of the good of their heart?

 

[Goro]

I AM SHOCKED! They don’t do this out of the good of their heart?

It's just like Motor Trend Car of the Year award. Best automobile award that advertising money can buy.

 

[carbonylcarbon]

It doesn't. It's nothing more than the results of a survey returned by 22% of PDs. For reasons discussed elsewhere, survey results with such a low response rate are meaningless, although, apparently, a lot of people would rather have than something than nothing, even if it has no statistical significance.

I'm sticking with my conclusions, based on the fact that 88% of the 22% stated that step 2 would increase in importance while only 51% of the 22% stated the same for med school prestige. Without knowing what the remaining 78% think, quoting from this survey is really kind of pointless.

Look this is literally all I said about that paper: "Obviously this doesn't capture every program director's view, but there are at least some that disagree with your position on this."

Keep in mind this is after you graced us with this gem: "the SDN premed speculation has been that prestige, as measured by the rankings, will take on greater importance with step 1 going P/F. OTOH, each and every adcom and other knowledgeable insider has stated that is nonsense, and that step 2 will replace step 1. Full stop."

(I didn't think this needed to be spelled out, but at worst, if every single nonrespondent took your position, 51% * 22% is still greater than 0.)

To be honest, I have no clue how all of this will play out and which factors will become just how much more important. Like you, I've yet to even start medical school. I'm just struggling to see where you get all the confidence to assert stuff like above and then turn around to poke at methodological limitations of some findings you already disagree with.

 

[nimbus]

More data points. HMS students clearly aren’t coasting on school rep.

 

[pre1med]

View attachment 352798

More data points. HMS students clearly aren’t coasting on school rep.

could you post a link to these PD rankings for this year pls?

 

[TheGranolaKing]

could you post a link to these PD rankings for this year pls?

Someone on r/premed posted this in the last few hours

edit: looks like a handful of schools are missing?

 

[NegativeMargin]

I know the points are made up and the scores don't matter, but it's always interesting to see a 10+ rank swing between various other metrics and the PD ranks.

 

[KnightDoc]

I know the points are made up and the scores don't matter, but it's always interesting to see a 10+ rank swing between various other metrics and the PD ranks.

It's a little more than just made up. US News rankings are based on objective metrics that can be gamed and many critics believe are irrelevant. PD rankings are purely reputational, based on a survey a small minority of PDs actually return, in which they just rank programs on a 5 point scale. Based on the disparity in the methodologies, huge disparities in the results are actually not unexpected at all.

 

[NegativeMargin]

It's a quote from a show. And I know all of the other things you said, as does everyone else here.

 

[Browns99]

As with all the other threads about rankings.......They turn into a bash of schools. Just look at the comments how some start trashing schools, "they gamed the system", how is school x not a top 10, they advertise their rankings, etc., etc.

You get the back-and-forth from those that defend the rankings and those that for whatever reason despise certain schools.

For all future applicants, take a look at schools in a wholistic approach, residency matches (including specific specialities you are interested in), PD rankings, yes, USNWR rankings/prestige, your fit to the school, city, family support, etc. And let's not forget, do NOT base your rankings solely on what you read here unless it is objective and can be verified.

 

[Rajaredhilu]

I see that US news includes a peer assessment score in their methodology. I also saw Johns Hopkins post that they were ranked #1 in this aspect. Peer Cheers

This is a metric that seems to hold some weight since it reflects what other med schools regard as the best. Im wondering if anyone can find the actual numbers on this? or does US news not publish these?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Hopkins may in fact be the Yale Law School of Medical Schools.

 

[Zuggelder]

Hopkins may in fact be the Yale Law School of Medical Schools.

What's the reasoning behind your new signature quote? Do you feel the good old days of medicine are over?

 

[aldol16]

This is a metric that seems to hold some weight since it reflects what other med schools regard as the best. Im wondering if anyone can find the actual numbers on this? or does US news not publish these?

Nope. What med schools think of each other is not a good indicator of anything. You care about what program directors think about your school, which will be field dependent. What medical schools think of other medical schools has no bearing on outcomes for medical students.

 

[Rajaredhilu]

Nope. What med schools think of each other is not a good indicator of anything. You care about what program directors think about your school, which will be field dependent. What medical schools think of other medical schools has no bearing on outcomes for medical students.

I would assume that it has alot of bearing on gaining an academic position in the future. Which is probably one of the biggest reasons to choose one name over another.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

What's the reasoning behind your new signature quote? Do you feel the good old days of medicine are over?

I recently began rewatching the Sopranos and I realized that a lot of physicians on this forum talk about medicine like Tony talked about the mafia. Meant more as a joke than a reflection of reality.

Personally, I do think that there are certain aspects of the industry that look make the future look somewhat bleak, but can still be changed.. Despite these issues, I believe that there is still something to be for the non-monetary satisfaction that is probably higher compared to other jobs.

One example that comes to mind is the shift in ownership structures. I’m not only referring to private equity ownership of private practices but also monopolization of healthcare by nonprofit actors (think Kaiser, Partners etc). It goes without saying that most PE firm partners (and to a lesser extent executives at large nonprofits) believe that physician autonomy should be limited whenever it jeopardizes the bottom line and that salaries should be a third of what they are currently.

 

[efle]

As always will link the classic chronicidal post from nearly a decade ago about whether Harvard is really head and shoulders above the rest

What would it take for Harvard Med to drop off #1 in USNWR?

HMS has had a choke-hold on the #1 spot in the USNWR research medical school ranking since the rankings existed. However, most people are not aware of the ranking methodology and, therefore, unawar…

anastomosed.wordpress.com

 

[mangowolf]

As always will link the classic chronicidal post from nearly a decade ago about whether Harvard is really head and shoulders above the rest

What would it take for Harvard Med to drop off #1 in USNWR?

HMS has had a choke-hold on the #1 spot in the USNWR research medical school ranking since the rankings existed. However, most people are not aware of the ranking methodology and, therefore, unawar…

anastomosed.wordpress.com

The last point in this article - that HMS doesn’t actually have that much money to offer students - is so huge. Trickles down to affect financial aid but also importantly funding for a research gap year (which many HMS students stated is now necessary to match a top 3 residency). This should be publicized more so that adoring premeds with heart eyes for Harvard realize that just because an institution looks shiny and expensive on the outside, doesn’t mean that’s what the experience is like within.

 

[Fano]

As always will link the classic chronicidal post from nearly a decade ago about whether Harvard is really head and shoulders above the rest

This article reminded me of the WSJ college rankings where they have a tool where you could adjust the weight of factors to produce your own ranking. It wasn't very granular but I wish USNWR had something similar. Instead, it's up to the individual to determine it for him/herself. @mangowolf's comment is a good example of why HMS is not #1 for him/her as I'm sure it's not for many others.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Post came across as somewhat bitter to me. Asking hypothetical questions like, “what if Harvard was somehow cut off from BIDMC, McLean, Children’s and BWH?” makes no sense.

It’s like asking, “what if Caltech lost NASA support for its jet propulsion lab?” This would undoubtedly reduce research opportunities and funding at Caltech, but there are too many vested interests at both institutions to end the relationship.

Some legally distinct entities have such a rich shared history that they are inseparable for all intents and purposes.

 

[mangowolf]

Post came across as somewhat bitter to me. Asking hypothetical questions like, “what if Harvard was somehow cut off from BIDMC, McLean, Children’s and BWH?” makes no sense.

It’s like asking, “what if Caltech lost NASA support for its jet propulsion lab?” This would undoubtedly reduce research opportunities and funding at Caltech, but there are too many vested interests at both institutions to end the relationship.

Some legally distinct entities have such a rich shared history that they are inseparable for all intents and purposes.

It makes tons of sense. The point is to show that a lot of what goes into the rankings doesn’t always have a measurable impact on your experiences or outcomes at a particular school. So what if Harvard is affiliated with BWH BI etc and has a million “instructors,” it is not like you could ever exhaust those resources in 10 years at HMS. At a certain point there are major diminishing returns to how much an additional 1 mil in funding, 100 faculty, etc can actually do to improve your medical school experience. Importantly, this article distinguishes between funding measured as a function of affiliated hospitals and funding that actually goes to student life, student research and experiences, etc. One could easily look at these metrics and say wow, Harvard has so much money, that must mean they’ll have money to give me once I’m a student there! Not so.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

It makes tons of sense. The point is to show that a lot of what goes into the rankings doesn’t always have a measurable impact on your experiences or outcomes at a particular school. So what if Harvard is affiliated with BWH BI etc and has a million “instructors,” it is not like you could ever exhaust those resources in 10 years at HMS. At a certain point there are major diminishing returns to how much an additional 1 mil in funding, 100 faculty, etc can actually do to improve your medical school experience. Importantly, this article distinguishes between funding measured as a function of affiliated hospitals and funding that actually goes to student life, student research and experiences, etc. One could easily look at these metrics and say wow, Harvard has so much money, that must mean they’ll have money to give me once I’m a student there! Not so.

Harvard always has its mystic for people who want to achieve “best.” However I don’t think Harvard graduates are necessarily having a leg up compared to graduates from similar schools. Nevertheless, Harvard graduates do sometimes think they are special lol.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Post came across as somewhat bitter to me. Asking hypothetical questions like, “what if Harvard was somehow cut off from BIDMC, McLean, Children’s and BWH?” makes no sense.

It’s like asking, “what if Caltech lost NASA support for its jet propulsion lab?” This would undoubtedly reduce research opportunities and funding at Caltech, but there are too many vested interests at both institutions to end the relationship.

Some legally distinct entities have such a rich shared history that they are inseparable for all intents and purposes.

Well, the only other school that has a choke hold on number one spot is YLS. However, EVERY lawyer will tell you that YLS is special. The problem with HMS is that most doctors don’t think HMS is that much different from other top med school. So its constant number 1 status is a bit of a joke.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I would also say that Harvard College is the consensus #1 for undergrads, at least in East coast circles. Maybe on the west coast it’s seen as Stanford but I’m not really sure.

I guess Yale law stands out more though because there are material differences in opportunities that are available compared to the second best program.

I agree that somebody at UCSF or Hopkins will have the same opportunities than they would have had at Harvard.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I would also say that Harvard College is the consensus #1 for undergrads, at least in East coast circles. Maybe on the west coast it’s seen as Stanford but I’m not really sure.

I guess Yale law stands out more though because there are material differences in opportunities that are available compared to the second best program.

I agree that somebody at UCSF or Hopkins will have the same opportunities than they would have had at Harvard.

A lot of east coasters think Princeton is the best undergrad. The point is that there’s not much difference between Harvard and Princeton undergrad. And the ranking reflects that in the sense no particular school has a choke hold on number one.

 

[Rajaredhilu]

If you look at the top 50 most NIH funded institutions, Harvard proper doesn't even make the list, it just has about a dozen affiliates that are spaced throughout (MGH, Boston children's, Broad inst, BWH, etc). Johns Hopkins making number one without relying on dozens of partnerships seems more impressive to me.

Top 50 NIH-Funded Institutions of 2020

The Top 50 NIH-Funded Institutions of 2020 is a list of 50 universities (including medical schools), research institutions, and teaching hospitals ranked by how much in NIH funding they have received during the current 2020 federal fiscal year, through September.

www.genengnews.com

 

[deleted1065184]

If you look at the top 50 most NIH funded institutions, Harvard proper doesn't even make the list, it just has about a dozen affiliates that are spaced throughout (MGH, Boston children's, Broad inst, BWH, etc). Johns Hopkins making number one without relying on dozens of partnerships seems more impressive to me.

Top 50 NIH-Funded Institutions of 2020

The Top 50 NIH-Funded Institutions of 2020 is a list of 50 universities (including medical schools), research institutions, and teaching hospitals ranked by how much in NIH funding they have received during the current 2020 federal fiscal year, through September.

www.genengnews.com

Use this instead and sort high to low: https://report.nih.gov/award/index.cfm?ot=&fy=2021&state=&ic=&fm=&orgid=&distr=&rfa=&om=n&pid=

Edit: Not necessarily disagreeing, but also worth pointing out that there is a lot of necessary nuance here. Hopkins' Bloomberg School of Public Health accounts for a nice chunk of that funding. The amount that goes to individual medical schools is actually best seen here, if that's what you're looking for: http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2021/default.htm (esp this table: http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2021/SchoolOfMedicine_2021.xls.

 

[Rajaredhilu]

Use this instead and sort high to low: https://report.nih.gov/award/index.cfm?ot=&fy=2021&state=&ic=&fm=&orgid=&distr=&rfa=&om=n&pid=

Edit: Not necessarily disagreeing, but also worth pointing out that there is a lot of necessary nuance here. Hopkins' Bloomberg School of Public Health accounts for a nice chunk of that funding. The amount that goes to individual medical schools is actually best seen here, if that's what you're looking for: http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2021/default.htm (esp this table: http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2021/SchoolOfMedicine_2021.xls.

That is pretty insightful thank you. If PartnersHealthCare ever cut ties with Harvard then Harvard med would be hosed. Im curious why doesnt research money from Fred Hutch get counted towards UW by US News. Dont they have a similar partnership to that of Harvard and partnershealthcare?

 

[inoffensivepersona]

I would also say that Harvard College is the consensus #1 for undergrads, at least in East coast circles. Maybe on the west coast it’s seen as Stanford but I’m not really sure.

I guess Yale law stands out more though because there are material differences in opportunities that are available compared to the second best program.

I agree that somebody at UCSF or Hopkins will have the same opportunities than they would have had at Harvard.

I thought it would be Princeton over Harvard College. It’s a lot more focused on undergrad and I feel Harvard has gotten a more working class reputation over the last few decades. Probably enough to matter to the wealthy uptight East coasters with high school aged kids.

I feel like the West Coast seems to be a bit less focused on school name. I think the sense of rugged individualism (whether deserved or not) makes west coasters more likely to reject hierarchies like undergraduate pedigree.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Where's Princeton Medical School? I feel cheated!