Monty Python

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Wow.

From the Command Investigation: “For the TR SMO specifically, a detachment for cause due to substandard performance is recommended.“

Then, in his cover letter endorsement to the report, the CNO uses the terms “exceedingly poor judgment” when referring to the SMO email.

Ouch.

Out of curiosity, if one is detached for cause (non-UCMJ) is that a mandatory reporting to state licensing board?
 
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Gastrapathy

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DFCs are administrative procedures. Obviously I don’t know what every state has in their list of questions but no where I’ve been licensed would require reporting.
 

Monty Python

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"Shortly after Friday’s news conference, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee announced that Congress is launching its own investigation into the coronavirus outbreak aboard the Theodore Roosevelt to find out what mistakes senior Navy leaders made."

 

Monty Python

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Just curious, any one know his (the SMO's) specialty?

He's a USNA grad and former aviator himself. USUHS, AOA, Rads and IR.

Smart money says SMO was recommended for detachment for cause (with CNO sprinkling a little “extremely poor judgment” into the recipe) since SMO is a former line officer. And USNA grad. Kinda hard to play the “I’m just a doctor” excuse with that background.
 
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DrMetal

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He's a USNA grad and former aviator himself. USUHS, AOA, Rads and IR.

Smart money says SMO was recommended for detachment for cause (with CNO sprinkling a little “extremely poor judgment” into the recipe) since SMO is a former line officer. And USNA grad. Kinda hard to play the “I’m just a doctor” excuse with that background.
What exactly did the SMO do? Sent an email off ship?
 

Monty Python

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What exactly did the SMO do? Sent an email off ship?
see post 201. emailed 160 folks outside the CoC.

From the investigation report:

316. The TR SMO sent the Medical Department letter via email to the Surgeon General copying CPF and C7F Surgeons and a few other senior leaders within Navy medicine.

317. Approximately three minutes later, the TR SMO sent the Medical Department letter via email to over 160 recipients, none of whom were in TR’s operational or administrative chain of command.
 
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DrMetal

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see post 201

Yeah, lines 309-317. I dunno, I get what he was trying to do with the letter, but threatening your chain like that is very bold and makes for a dangerous precedent. I don't think the SMO should be punished, as this was an unprecedented event, but I don't condone using the threat of the media.
 

Gastrapathy

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It is remarkable conduct and it shows the incredible stress and desperation he must have felt.
 
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It sounded like outright mutiny in the TR medical department, considering almost all of the staff signed that letter and threatened to go to the media with it.
 
Mar 12, 2019
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what is the current typical medical dept staffing on a CVN... you hear a lot in these forums about GMO flight surgeon tour, but how many actual medical officers are typically on the staff
 
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Monty Python

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what is the current typical medical dept staffing on a CVN... you hear a lot in these forums about GMO flight surgeon tour, but how many actual medical officers are typically on the staff
During my time on a Nimitz-class carrier, the ship’s company medical department had:

Officers:
1 senior medical officer. Ours just happened to be an internist. 75% admin and 25% clinical.
1 surgeon.
1 anesthesia provider, either anesthesiologist or CRNA.
1 junior GMO physician.
1 RN.
1 general duty PA.
1 physical therapist.
1 non-clergy mental health provider, either psychiatrist or doctoral-level psychologist.
Several pharmacists.
4 general dentists.
2 oral surgeons (also functioned as anesthesia backup).
1 periodontist.

When embarked, the airwing brought their own imbedded flight surgeons with them. One or two.

Enlisted: lab techs, xray techs, corpsmen (ie, “medics”), etc.
 
Mar 12, 2019
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thanks for the info, that is quite interesting. what is the typical rank of the SMO, O-5? Also in general outside of the GMO tours, what are the service path options that have shipboard vs land side service, ie is this a typical rotation path that if you stay in long enough, ie USUHS commitment that you likely experience naturally or if interested there is high likelihood of getting a rotation like , etc
 

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Send no message, get criticized by the investigation into the outbreak (there were going to be several as crew had been complaining to family about the situation) for not utilizing supposed resources available. Send a message up the medical department chain and get told to shut up and follow the operational chain's plan, failing or not. Then get criticized later anyway for not having been persuasive enough to the chain given the facts as-known. Send a message up and outside the chain, and get criticized by the senior PACCOM for "poor leadership." And then get threatened with "discipline."

Was there a workable option that didn't end in being thrown under the bus? No.

Admirals Baker, Davidson, Burke and Gilday all deserve a nice hot grilling by the Congress. No pity and no excuses from any of them.
 

Monty Python

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Was there a workable option that didn't end in being thrown under the bus? No.

Admirals Baker, Davidson, Burke and Gilday all deserve a nice hot grilling by the Congress. No pity and no excuses from any of them.

A former ASECDEF chimes in.

 

sb247

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Send no message, get criticized by the investigation into the outbreak (there were going to be several as crew had been complaining to family about the situation) for not utilizing supposed resources available. Send a message up the medical department chain and get told to shut up and follow the operational chain's plan, failing or not. Then get criticized later anyway for not having been persuasive enough to the chain given the facts as-known. Send a message up and outside the chain, and get criticized by the senior PACCOM for "poor leadership." And then get threatened with "discipline."

Was there a workable option that didn't end in being thrown under the bus? No.

Admirals Baker, Davidson, Burke and Gilday all deserve a nice hot grilling by the Congress. No pity and no excuses from any of them.
If you’re gonna lose either way, always pick the loss that protects your soldiers
 

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orbitsurgMD

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There is a whitewash-like quality to this report. Remember, it is written by the very COC criticized for its having ordered the TR to Vietnam, so a bias is suspect. The claims that that COC was working to resolve berthing ashore in Guam does not appear to be held to the same quality of scrutiny as the decisions of the captain of the TR, nor is there any evidence shown how the COC made an effort to convince anyone, never mind order immediate berthing ashore to available facilities if in fact that was the better choice of action at the time. Why the pass for them? Oh yeah, the purpose is to fix responsibility at the lowest level of command and to exonerate those at the highest levels, including the civilian chain at Defense. How nice to see a varnish of CINCPAC and senior command endorsement on the cover.

Seriously, a decent lawyer would pick this document and its conclusion to pieces.
 
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