Utah (full-tuition) vs Dartmouth (full-tuition) vs UVA (half-tuition scholarship)

[MedicalStudent2021]

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[deleted1064759]

Is the accelerated 18-month pre-clinical really a good thing? I've always been ambivalent about it because the boards aren't going to test what you learn in the clinic or on the wards -- and early clinical exposure doesn't matter much if it's not going to help you match your specialty of interest, and may actually take away time you can devote to research or studying for boards.

 

[MedicalStudent2021]

Is the accelerated 18-month pre-clinical really a good thing? I've always been ambivalent about it because the boards aren't going to test what you learn in the clinic or on the wards -- and early clinical exposure doesn't matter much if it's not going to help you match your specialty of interest, and may actually take away time you can devote to research or studying for boards.

It must be since all the big names are moving to a 18-month preclinical curriculum (some even to a 1-year accelerated one). Also, why would you want to grind for 2yrs instead of 18mo? Sitting in class sucks compared to being in the hospital imo.

 

[wondervisions]

I would say Utah or Dartmouth

 

[GreenDuck12]

I would not go to rural NH if you felt uncomfortable with the politics of UT in a city. COL in NH will definitely be lower than the other two but it’s also pretty far from places. UVA is definitely more expensive and will have a higher COL. At the end of the day, all three are strong programs with good match lists.

 

[MedicalStudent2021]

I would not go to rural NH if you felt uncomfortable with the politics of UT in a city. COL in NH will definitely be lower than the other two but it’s also pretty far from places. UVA is definitely more expensive and will have a higher COL. At the end of the day, all three are strong programs with good match lists.

NH (including Grafton county) has voted Democrat for the past 30 yrs while UT has been the opposite.

 

[GreenDuck12]

NH (including Grafton county) has voted Democrat for the past 30 yrs while UT has been the opposite.

I’m not quite talking about voting trends, though Salt Lake City is pretty democratic. I mean the community and the area. I lived in that area for quite some time - it’s very different than most folks expect especially if they have not spent time there. While yes it is in New England and only a few hours outside of Boston and Portland, it very much so is in a rural part of the state. Again, it’s your choice to make.

 

[LunaOri]

The happiness of your spouse and children should be paramount, especially since she will have to be at home with the children for at least 4 years. And in that situation, I would consider the finances as the second most important factor.

 

[Banco]

I think it's pretty close between Dartmouth and Utah.

I think your financial situation knocks UVA out - I don't think there is any significant difference in prestige here.

I guess it boils down to personal preference. I'd rather be worried about class + research, than class + research + clinical BS in M2. Medical students are functionally useless in clinical environments.

Also, other schools will have students with 2-year preclinicals that will have a stronger knowledge base while you're running around doing nothing in clinic.

1.5 year curriculum is 100% better than 2 year. You get an extra 6 months on the back end to do whatever you want (research, electives, away rotations). 6 months more of pre-clinical are not going to give you any advantage in the clinical rotations, trust me.

 

[ampersandwich]

The happiness of your spouse and children should be paramount, especially since she will have to be at home with the children for at least 4 years. And in that situation, I would consider the finances as the second most important factor.

Agreed--I would discuss with spouse the possibility of having to move again in four years for residency and (potentially) for fellowship as well. You can avoid a lot of stress by minimizing the number of moves you have to make. "Ranking" in this case is negligible as they're all within the same tier. Personally, I would pick Utah since it seems to better support your family.

 

[TehTeddy]

I don't know man. It's hard for me to assess since I haven't even started school yet, but an MS4 on reddit seemed to agree with me:


Link if you want to read more.

What 6 months of 'back end' are you referring to? The way I understand it, you'll be in clerkships from the second half of MS2 through ERAS submission.
If those 6 months come after the submission of ERAS, then they won't matter anyways.

I was also referring to the 6 months of extra MS2 preclinical to permit some more research productivity and a stronger knowledge base for Step 2CK, since this seems more difficult to manage while on rotations. Clinical rotations seem like a wash anyways.

Just a correction - in a 1.5 yr preclinical curriculum, you're not in required clerkships through ERAS submission. That would mean they extend the traditional 3rd year while cutting preclinicals. Required clerkships are still 1 year, but 4th year gets extended by 6 months, leaving extra time before ERAS for electives/whatever.

 

[Banco]

I don't know man. It's hard for me to assess since I haven't even started school yet, but an MS4 on reddit seemed to agree with me:


Link if you want to read more.

What 6 months of 'back end' are you referring to? The way I understand it, you'll be in clerkships from the second half of MS2 through ERAS submission.
If those 6 months come after the submission of ERAS, then they won't matter anyways.

I was also referring to the 6 months of extra MS2 preclinical to permit some more research productivity and a stronger knowledge base for Step 2CK, since this seems more difficult to manage while on rotations. Clinical rotations seem like a wash anyways.

Lol well I'm an MS4 who just matched. Everyone has there own opinion of course.

I think you might be misunderstanding.

Year 0-1.5: pre-clinical.

Year 1.5-2.5: core clinical rotations (always 1 year approx.)

Year 2.5 - 4: electives, sub-I's, research - you can schedule that how you want. You have extra 6 months in this span, you can use it before or after ERAS submission for whatever you want. You can theoretically have 6 months of full time research instead of 6 months of pre-clinical + part time research.

Also, Step 2 CK knowledge base builds on step 1 superficially, but is largely based on your clinical rotations/shelf exams. Pre-clinical plays like near 0 role there.

I don't think 2 year is bad per se - that's how things have been done for decades and it works. But I think it's outdated, especially now that Step 1 is P/F.

 

[Cellochick0528]

NH (including Grafton county) has voted Democrat for the past 30 yrs while UT has been the opposite.

SLC is the blue dot of Utah. The only reason that the Mormons aren't running the state legislature lol. VERY liberal! Pride flags everywhere.

 

[MedicalStudent2021]

SLC is the blue dot of Utah. The only reason that the Mormons aren't running the state legislature lol. VERY liberal! Pride flags everywhere.

Well yeah kinda but I won't be living in SLC bc it's super expensive. Probably another city ~20m away and that becomes conservative very quickly.

 

[Cellochick0528]

Well yeah kinda but I won't be living in SLC bc it's super expensive. Probably another city ~20m away and that becomes conservative very quickly.

True. It is super expensive, that is the downside. But the in-state tuition could offset your cost there. NH may also be hella pricey right? I'm sure the adjacent cities are pretty alright. Also--remember that statistically, the liberals will live near the major universities (more education is highly associated with more liberal viewpoints). And you will spend MOST of your time studying and interacting among the educated.

 

[Cellochick0528]

True. It is super expensive, that is the downside. But the in-state tuition could offset your cost there. NH may also be hella pricey right? I'm sure the adjacent cities are pretty alright. Also--remember that statistically, the liberals will live near the major universities (more education is highly associated with more liberal viewpoints). And you will spend MOST of your time studying and interacting among the educated.

from what I've seen, even the conservative classmates will have something cool or interesting about them to have stood apart from the rest of the BYU clone army. So I imagine they might just be tolerable and keep their biases on the inside or back in Provo (hence, Salt Lake culture).

 

[deleted1064759]

@TehTeddy @Banco Gotcha, thanks for the information. I'm still trying to figure out all the moving parts.

It looks like my school (East Coast T5) will not be completely 'free' during those 6 months (will have additional classes and commitments), why is why I'm having slight 'grass is greener' syndrome lol.

 

[Banco]

@TehTeddy @Banco Gotcha, thanks for the information. I'm still trying to figure out all the moving parts.

It looks like my school (East Coast T5) will not be completely 'free' during those 6 months (will have additional classes and commitments), why is why I'm having slight 'grass is greener' syndrome lol.

If they fill that extra time with other useless commitments it kind of defeats the purpose.

 

[Skittsie13]

In addition to all your pros for Utah, it is a strong dermatology program. I'd pick Utah.