Veterinarians: What should I negotiate for in a new job? What's important to those currently in practice?

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LeonbergerLover

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If you were in the position of negotiating for a new job, what would be your list of terms to negotiate? What are terms that you think of now while working that you hadn't thought of when initially negotiating?

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No negative accrual is the biggest one. You shouldn’t be essentially punished for taking your PTO.
Also, always ask for more PTO. Even if you don’t use it, you at least have it available if you need it or need to use unexpectedly for sick days.
Also, no clawback (where you have to repay it if you leave) on any sort of signing bonus. You shouldn’t be stuck just because of a clawback. Or at the very least a pro-rated payback for $X per week you didn’t work vs having to pay the entire thing back.
 
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No noncompete. Or at the minimum get it as limited in scope as possible. You can probably challenge an overly restrictive noncompete in court, but it would be better to just get it removed or reduced on the front end.
 
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Literally anything you want. My contract states 12-14 shifts per month, for example, because that's what I want for my schedule. Anything you want in the job should be in writing as part of your contract.

Something I didn't think about is number of CE days. You may be limited to one conference per year despite maybe being in a position to do multiple (I live in Denver and VECCS and AVMA are both here this year).
 
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  • No production-based pay scheme - especially in your first year out. Though I think they're a pox generally and would avoid them like the plague, they're especially important to avoid in your first year.
  • No non-compete agreement.
  • More time off - at least 4 weeks in personal time off
 
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It really depends on what you want. I wish I would have held out for Beyonce tickets and draught beer in the break room. But that's just me.

The most important thing is that you understand the implications of everything in the contract. Based on talking with a lot of recent graduates, the common problems that crop up these days are:

1. Noncompetes. Six months in and you want to quit (or get fired) and now you have to move to another city to earn a living. That's usually a big problem.

2. What is and is not included in production pay (spoiler: It's usually less than you think). You get 23% of production. 23% of what?

3. Signing bonuses. Many of these are more like pre-paid retention bonuses than signing bonuses. That's because if you leave you may have to pay some of this back.

4. Professional liability insurance. When they say you are covered, they sometimes mean we (the hospital) are covered, not you individually. You need your own. And while we're on the topic, you also need license coverage.

You can't effectively negotiate if you don't understand the terms of your contract. In many cases, getting an attorney to you help with this is money well spent. Most of the contracts I see these days (especially but not exclusively from corporate-owned practices) heavily favor the employer. Not surprising considering they are the ones that wrote the contract in the first place.
 
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Not surprising considering they are the ones that wrote the contract in the first place.
Do you feel/see this as more a corporate issue, or do private practices do this too?
 
Do you feel/see this as more a corporate issue, or do private practices do this too?
I've seen this in both private and corporate practices. Whether it's more prevalent ... I'm not sure. Years ago many private practices would hire associates without a written contract. Corporations almost always have a contract. These days I think more private practices have contracts, but not all.
 
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Seconding vin-foundation and others above on a lot of these. Remember to look at contracts through the lens of future you when things go wrong. If things go well, you don’t really need a contract. They’re there for the bad and ugly scenarios. Don’t blow them off because you think it will go well. It often doesn’t, and you’ll kick yourself later.

1.) noncompetes - should not exist. Or if they absolutely won’t take it out, think about what practices the noncompete will prevent you from taking a job at in the future. It is usually as the bird flies, not based on road mileage on google maps. Really, think about this actually being a problem. You have a living situation set up, and a family or partner who doesn’t want to move. Which practices will it not allow you to work at, and does that work for you? Decrease the mileage as needed until you have decent number of alternative clinics to work at within a reasonable commute. Also, work in a clause that it does not go into effect until you have worked there >1 yr. Until you’ve built enough clientele that you’re at risk of taking them to a nearby clinic, it is just punitive for no reason.

2.) if on production, negative accrual - get rid of it if you can. And know that anything outside of monthly bonus without negative accrual = you still have negative accrual. “There is no negative accrual, it resets yearly/quarterly and you get a yearly/quarterly bonus” means you still have negative accrual and they’re taking away money you earned each day you take PTO. Not that you’ll be successful in negotiating this with every employer, but it’s not truly paid time off without negative accrual if they don’t “substitute in” production for the days you took off with how much you would have produced that day, when they calculate your bonus. Also, exactly what is included in your production. Search for previous posts on this. But if refill meds, FT/HW, tech appts under the direction of vets (for diagnostics, treatments) don’t count, you’re missing out on a lot of pay. This is something you should have looked over by someone who understands because there is no way for you to get it without having experience.

3.) The sign on bonus is so icky I would be super wary. They’re made to benefit the employer, not you as far as how it’s paid out. Read the details and what it means for you if you leave early.


4.) liability insurance - I’ll go one step further and say it should be set up that you will pay the insurance premium and get reimbursed by the employer. Learn from my fail. I had a ****ty employer who never had me covered, even though it was in my contracts It is the only way to ensure your premium is getting paid, and that the lawyer you get is there to represent your interests and not the company. Your license, you should not be at the mercy of your employer to protect it. You should be able to pick what kind of insurance you want.

5.) start date - make sure it is not any sooner than you get your state license unless they are willing to pay you to shadow until your license goes through.

6.) your schedule. Many will not put exact schedules on they contract itself . But you should be able to at least get in writing via email particulars about your schedule, and that you have to mutually agree about any changes. Set schedule. F%+* the variable schedule that will be determined month to month. You need to be able to plan your life. Think about how many evenings/weekends you want to or don’t want to work. Contract should not state anything to the tune of you being expected to work to cover any decifiencies in the schedule. Also how many procedure days will you have. I personally will never work anywhere that does not do whole surgery days. And it should be something you start out with, not what you earn, whatever that means.

7.) absolutely no on call (unless you’re in rural mixed practice or something like that). Not even phone call triage. No way.

8.) if there are expensive wetlab type CE you want (acupuncture, dentistry, surgery, ultrasound, etc…) that will not be coverable with your typical CE allowance, have that included as your startup package. When you factor flight, lodging, car, etc… for 2-3 days, that $2000-5000 CE registration can easily balloon an extra $1k+

9.) notice period. Minimize to 4 weeks. Think about an antagonizing split with your employer and how long you would be able to stomach staying around after you give notice. Less than a month is probably unprofessional for a doctor. But you shouldn’t owe more than that. Also, if you have to put in X amount of weeks, so should your employer if they terminate your employment (either they keep you for the same notice period or pay you severance for the same amount if they really want you gone asap).

10.) moonlighting- try to ensure your contract doesn’t prohibit you from doing relief work or other veterinary work during your free time.
 
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7.) absolutely no on call (unless you’re in rural mixed practice or something like that). Not even phone call triage. No way.

Night duty / weekend duty is a very common practice in veterinary clinics? Or am I understanding you wrong?
 
Night duty / weekend duty is a very common practice in veterinary clinics? Or am I understanding you wrong?
Not in small animal practice with coverage from an ER. Other practices, yes it’s unavoidable
 
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Night duty / weekend duty is a very common practice in veterinary clinics? Or am I understanding you wrong?
I'm an ER vet and try to work weekends by choice because of babysitting. I also have one set of overnights per month (25% of my monthly shifts).
 
Night duty / weekend duty is a very common practice in veterinary clinics? Or am I understanding you wrong?
It depends on the clinic location - it's virtually unheard of in most cities, because there are after-hours and ER clinics available, but it's a requirement for clinics that are in rural areas or other isolated communities (isolated by virtue of geography). Or, if you prefer night and weekend work, you could find it in cities that have after-hours and emergency clinics.
 
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