Western or Minnesota

[TheCitysFinest]

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Hi everyone,

I am having a little bit of trouble deciding between the two. I initially really liked Western and its only about an hour from where I live, but as I looked into it I started to think Minnesota might be the school for me. I put in deposits at both. All of the interns and doctors at my hospital say Minnesota is the way to go and I just wanted to get some other opinions. Let me know what you think.

-TheCitysFinest

P.S. Right now I am leaning towards minnesota.

 

[twosoakers]

Western's current dean deaned and taught at Minnesota (and bashed it for its non-reverence-for-life policy).😀

 

[bubbles525]

Western all the way 😀 reverence for life, PBL system, working and learning in actual veterinary practices. You can't beat the program; plus everyone was so helpful and nice and accommodating while I was applying and wait listed. Go for Western. Just my opinion.

 

[botch]

+1 for minnesota

I toured at western and while I think its a great school if you like the PBL cirriculum, the facilities left a bit to be desired and pomona wouldnt be high on my list of places I would like to live.

 

[chris03333]

I just graduated from Western. I know nothing about MN. If you have any questions about Western, I would be glad to help.

Chris03333, DVM😀

 

[StealthDog]

working and learning in actual veterinary practices

We do preceptorships in local clinics first year and get lots of experience in the teaching hospital (one of the highest caseloads you'll find!).

 

[ri23]

I just graduated from Western. I know nothing about MN. If you have any questions about Western, I would be glad to help.

Chris03333, DVM😀

Congratulations! That's quite the accomplishment. What will you be doing next year?

Sorry for the thread hijack.

 

[chris03333]

Congratulations! That's quite the accomplishment. What will you be doing next year?

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Thanks 😀

I am going straight to residency😱
Right after I get this moving done😳

 

[laurafinn]

+1 Minnesota. I haven't been to either vet school in person, but as long as you're asking random folks on the internet <g> I love course materials they have on the web - Google canine anatomy and you'll see some of the stuff. Like the campus (went to undergrad near there). Love the Twin Cities. Minnesota (the state) rocks, if only it weren't sooo cold during the winter. I'm not a PBL person. Haven't seen Western, have been to Pomona though. One advantage, it IS warm therel. Go with your gut.

 

[Serendipity4]

Another +1 Minnesota. I'm a little biased, as that's where I'm headed in August. Also, I don't know that much about Western, so I can only tell you the things I like that I've heard about the U. I have heard about the high caseload, and the hands-on experience from you first year. Also, I really liked the sense of community they seem to foster at Minnesota; all the students seemed very happy to be there, and as if they really got along with one another and supported each other. They're facilities were AMAZING, and Minnesota in general is always ranked highly as a good place to live.

As for the non-reverence-for-life policy, I'm not exactly certain what is meant by that. It is my understanding that there are terminal surgeries you do in your third year, but all animals come from the Humane Society and would have been put down anyways. Also, the students (in the Q & A session) specifically spoke about how they work really hard to treat the animals well, and to respect the animals for what they're sacrificing. I know that I'm going to have a very difficult time with the terminal surgeries, but I felt a lot better after listening to the students talk because of the way they talked about the animals -- they didn't seem to be non-reverent to me at all.

But anyways, that's just my two cents. Good luck making your decision, and go with your heart! 🙂

 

[runnerDC]

+1 for MN.

I don't know anything about western and am attending tufts in the fall, but my decision was between MN and tufts and it was really hard to have to give up MN. the people, the program, and the facilities and caseload were all wonderful. and the twin cities are an interesting, affordable place to live.

but, only you know what is best for you. if you go with your gut, you can't go wrong. good luck!

 

[critterfixer]

The're both great schools and you'll come out a DVM in either case. I'd go to the one that left me in less debt, since there isn't really any compelling reason not to go to one or the other.

 

[seaturtlegirl]

+1 for MN!
I have a friend who is attending Western this fall, and he loved it. Still, I you have to decide how you personally would do with PBL. (I am biased to MN as well...) As for the reverence for life issue, I was told during my tour that you don't have to perform terminal surgeries there if you don't want to...I really hope that is the case. I got a great feeling from the students and faculty that I met - everyone seemed very nice and down to earth. That said, I agree with the others here - go with your gut. If you are reconsidering Western and leaning towards MN, you may already know what you want to do! Good luck! (and maybe see you in the fall!)

 

[twosoakers]

i'm not sure i agree with the comment that "all animals come from the Humane Society and would have been put down anyways." many community efforts are made by various rescue groups to save these animals so they don't have to die needlessly. the midwest houses a network of transports that have moved animals from alabama to wisconsin in order to prevent their deaths.

western's approach is to send its students all over so cal, to perform needed surgeries--not terminal surgeries, which i feel are an outdated and cruel method of teaching (kill in order to learn to save).

just my thoughts.

 

[StealthDog]

Terminal surgeries aren't required at MN- they are optional. The animals that are used for the surgeries are generally from lab use (usually beagles) because, after the surgery, they are used as organ donors (i.e. for corneal transplants), so the hospital needs to have strict medical and use records on them. They cost about $8,000 each, so they are used for far more than just the terminal surgery, like dental labs, neurology, etc. But, participation is optional. Most classes commission a block in our memorial garden at graduation thanking the animals gave their lives for us to learn (including terminal surgery animals and cadavers).

Animal cadavers do come from shelters, and it isn't uncommon to find heartworms, pregnant bitches, cuterebras, etc during dissection. Cadaver ponies and cows come from auction sales.

We have a lengthy ethics discussion first year about the U of MN's animal use, and students are encouraged to make the ethical decisions that we are comfortable with. I don't think the school needs a written "reverence for life" policy, as that should be interwoven into the fabric of any vet education program.

Twosoakers, are you implying that the midwest doesn't have an animal overpopulation problem? Pups and purebreds go fast, but plenty of dogs and cats are euthanized in Minnesota shelters. I wish I could complain about the lack of animal cadavers, but unfortunately we could get them by the truckload from animal control if we needed to.

 

[twosoakers]

ohhh no, we have a very bad overpopulation problem. i just wanted to emphasize that there are groups that are struggling to right the issue, one mutt at a time. at our local humane society in indiana, at least 50% of the dogs and cats are euthanized each year (a very large number, at that). much of the old-school mentality around here is 'if you didn't do terminal surgeries, i don't want you touching my dog.'

just wanted to emphasize that there are people all over the place who give up their weekends, weeknights, to drive from louisville to indy, from indy to chicago, trying to save these dogs from a needle (or worse yet, starvation, disease, abuse, neglect, breeding, parasites, and apathy). the animals in shelters are more than just disposable 'shelter animals.'

again, my opinion.

 

[QTkitty]

I don't know a thing about MN but I did consider Western (I live in So. Cal). Although I think So Cal is great (in the beach cities) I would go with MN. I went on a tour at Western and was really nervous about PBL and widgets.

I'm another one where PBL just isn't for me... I don't understand how one can learn the most important functions of the body based on a learning board (or whatever they call that board that stores all of the things that need to be learned). It takes a lot of initiative to learn the ins and outs of every system (i.e. Digestive, endocrine, etc.) on your own in order to solve a case. That said, when looking these things up, I would think the only natural thing to do would be to learn the part of the system that pertains to that specific case and skip over the rest in order to move onto the next part of the case. Maybe I have it all wrong but that's the way PBL sounded to me.

As for the widgets and reverence for life, I think having respect for life is great, but I wouldn't want to learn surgical techniques on a doll. I understand that the widget is supposed to be very realistic, but there are certain things one needs to deal with in oneself when a life depends on their use of proper techniques (i.e. no one get injured or dies if you screw up on a widget). I would think this would lead to a ballsyness (like my new word? haha) when performing "surgery" (like I'm going to try this thing and if it doesn't work, oh well no harm done).

Ok, well that was sort of all over the place but you get the idea. If you feel like the things offered at Western are for you then great you should definitely go there! This was just my opinion for myself, I really don't mean to imply that Western vets are worse than vets from any other school- it just wasn't the place for me. Good luck with you decision!

 

[twosoakers]

I don't think Western uses dolls--they send their students into the community and surgeries are performed state-wide.

Am I right on this, Chris?

 

[StealthDog]

the animals in shelters are more than just disposable 'shelter animals.'

Of course- we learn our spays/neuters on shelter dogs and cats, who are then more adoptable from the procedure 🙂

 

[chris03333]

I don't think Western uses dolls--they send their students into the community and surgeries are performed state-wide.

Am I right on this, Chris?

Yes you are right. The "widgets" are thing used to prove your proficiency in years 1 and 2 with syringes, surgical instruments, etc, before they let you do a procedure on an animal. You actually do get to do procedures on live animals (that need them) but you have to pass the clinical skill (ie show you can maintain sterility scrubbing in gowning/gloving before you scrub in on a surgery, show you know how to properly place a ET tube before you do it on a live animal (this is where the model comes in and you show that you know how to play with the trap doors encountered in cat intubation (do you reach for lidocaine, where do you put it, what effect does it have) and that you know where you actually insert the ET tube properly (and you know how to test that it is in the right place). How do you insert a catheter, can you do it without someone helping you? how do you tape it? what happens if the animal has tough skin, or if you cannot use the cephalic vein? Demonstrate for me please before we let you do it to Fido....
I thought it made sense🙄