DO what are my chances for DO schools? (nonscience major, low gpa, high MCAT)

[sb9493]

Hello all

I am 23 years old. Graduated undergrad as a history major with a 3.098 cumulative GPA.
Then I did a postbacc program at Drexel for non science majors and got a 3.1 science GPA.
I took the new MCATS and got a 512.

I have a number of ECs including 100+ hours of shadowing, research at DuCOM and NJMS (my data was published), worked part time at a childrens learning center, volunteered at a clinic for dementia patients, volunteered to teach high school students during their health class about diabetes/sex ed/healthy eating/etc thru Drexel, intern at Youth Services of Philadelphia, peer advisor during my undergrad, and worked with International Medical Health Organization for fundraising on multiple occasions.

What are my chances for a DO school? I know my GPA is low =/, but does a high MCAT score balance it out?

Thanks so much!
(Also if you were in the same boat as me and got accepted/interviewed, lemme know!)

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[Goro]

Auto reject at my school and a bunch of others. You're supposed to ace a post-bac. You have yet to demonstrate that you can handle medical school.

Hello all

I am 23 years old. Graduated undergrad as a history major with a 3.098 cumulative GPA.
Then I did a postbacc program at Drexel for non science majors and got a 3.1 science GPA.
I took the new MCATS and got a 512.

I have a number of ECs including 100+ hours of shadowing, research at DuCOM and NJMS (my data was published), worked part time at a childrens learning center, volunteered at a clinic for dementia patients, volunteered to teach high school students during their health class about diabetes/sex ed/healthy eating/etc thru Drexel, intern at Youth Services of Philadelphia, peer advisor during my undergrad, and worked with International Medical Health Organization for fundraising on multiple occasions.

What are my chances for a DO school? I know my GPA is low =/, but does a high MCAT score balance it out?

Thanks so much!
(Also if you were in the same boat as me and got accepted/interviewed, lemme know!)

 

[gamieg]

is your cumulative including your postbac grades?

3.1 sGPA is unfortunately pretty low, and it won't help, as Goro mentioned, that it was your postbac. the point of a postbac is to see if you can handle a rigorous science curriculum, which is what med school is.

how many science units did you take and is there an upward trend in your coursework? your MCAT is fine, but the GPA will be a red flag for many schools.

 

[Alienman52]

Hello all

I am 23 years old. Graduated undergrad as a history major with a 3.098 cumulative GPA.
Then I did a postbacc program at Drexel for non science majors and got a 3.1 science GPA.
I took the new MCATS and got a 512.

I have a number of ECs including 100+ hours of shadowing, research at DuCOM and NJMS (my data was published), worked part time at a childrens learning center, volunteered at a clinic for dementia patients, volunteered to teach high school students during their health class about diabetes/sex ed/healthy eating/etc thru Drexel, intern at Youth Services of Philadelphia, peer advisor during my undergrad, and worked with International Medical Health Organization for fundraising on multiple occasions.

What are my chances for a DO school? I know my GPA is low =/, but does a high MCAT score balance it out?

Thanks so much!
(Also if you were in the same boat as me and got accepted/interviewed, lemme know!)

At this point, probably not too great.

First off, nice work on that MCAT score! It's a little weird that your score doesn't correlate with your gpa, but nonetheless nice work on that!

Second, as Goro mentioned, your postbacc gpa should have been higher, and your c/sGPAs are a bit too low as of now. Your best plan of action is to figure out what seems to be going wrong when taking your coursework. It's apparent that you know your stuff when it comes to basic science (as shown by your MCAT score), but something else is going wrong when you take exams in the classroom setting.

Once you've figured out what is going wrong in the classroom setting and it's 100% fixed, retake all C/D coursework (especially sGPA classes) to at least a 3.3 c and sGPA. (This is to avoid a 3.25 cutoff for both GPAs.) Preferably a safe GPA for DO school admissions is around 3.5, but since your MCAT is so high I think you'd have a decent shot with a 3.3 c/sGPA.

Good luck to you OP.



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[HMtoDO]

I would echo the advice given here. It's not impossible at this point but you have created and exceptionally steep uphill battle with doing so poorly on your post bac. The only advice I can give is do not give up if this is what you truly want to do. Good luck!


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[sb9493]

Well I worked part time. I also took all my pre req courses within this program and all my grades for my sciences courses are B- and higher! I honestly thought my high MCAT score would be attractive to DO schools who value high mcat scores more...especially since I'm a history major.
I don't think I should give up. And I know people who have gotten into schools with lower GPAs, but they excelled in all other aspects.

 

[DO2015CA]

Working part time isn't an excuse many students work at least part time. I worked full time and still managed a 3.8 in hard science degree. It was a selling point for me in my application. Medical school will be more than a full time job and undergrad pales in comparison in respects to time. If you try to use that excuse that will reassure adcoms that you can't handle it.

 

[HMtoDO]

Well I worked part time. I also took all my pre req courses within this program and all my grades for my sciences courses are B- and higher! I honestly thought my high MCAT score would be attractive to DO schools who value high mcat scores more...especially since I'm a history major.
I don't think I should give up. And I know people who have gotten into schools with lower GPAs, but they excelled in all other aspects.

Yes people get in with lower GPA's but they almost always show an upward trend or a higher gpa post bac, which you fail to have. You need to demonstrate to adcom's that you can handle the rigor of a medical school curriculum which you have yet to do.

Edit: also didn't see earlier you were a history major... which is even more for concern. Non science majors typically have much higher GPA's because the rigor is not as much as a hard science. So that coupled with an equally low science post bac is not reassuring at all.

I'm not even sure grade replacement would be enough to save you. Maybe an SMP and you would have to ace it. These are typically last resorts though but it may be your best option at this point




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[DO2015CA]

Although I agree your gpa should be higher, I disagree with many on here. I think having a 512 will be enough of an advantage to get in to a new school or those that love high meats (coastal touros and azcom)

 

[HMtoDO]

Although I agree your gpa should be higher, I disagree with many on here. I think having a 512 will be enough of an advantage to get in to a new school or those that love high meats (coastal touros and azcom)

The opinions on here are not just based on strictly a low gpa. It's the fact that the op got a lower gpa AND THEN went on to underperform an all science post bac. That's the issue.


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[gamieg]

Well I worked part time. I also took all my pre req courses within this program and all my grades for my sciences courses are B- and higher! I honestly thought my high MCAT score would be attractive to DO schools who value high mcat scores more...especially since I'm a history major.
I don't think I should give up. And I know people who have gotten into schools with lower GPAs, but they excelled in all other aspects.

nobody said to give up, which is why we're offering objective advice. getting defensive is an understandable reaction, but the advice on here is honest and not aimed to be condescending.

your MCAT score is attractive, especially if it's balanced. but in the majority of cases, it's about more than just the score. you should apply early, apply broadly, and obtain a DO shadowing letter if you decide to apply without doing anymore coursework.

of course there are applicants who have gotten in with similar stats, but it all depends on the rest of your application. do you have an upward trend? did your postbac grades improve throughout the course of your program? is there a suitable explanation for why your undergrad GPA isn't great and then another for why your postbac one isn't stellar? does your MCAT reflect ability, in which case, what happened with your science coursework? have you garnered enough clinical exposure and community service to be sure this is the field you want? these are all questions that adcoms will ask when reviewing your application.

we're not saying that there isn't a chance you'll be a successful applicant -- we're just telling you that objectively speaking from what you've stated about your application thus far, it doesn't give you the best chance.

 

[sb9493]

My post back course work:

Bio I: B+
Lab: A
Bio II: B-
Lab: A
Chem I: B-
Lab: A
Chem II: B+
Lab: A
Physics I: B+
Lab: A
Physics II: B-
Lab: A
Orgo I: B-
Lab: A
Orgo II: B-
Lab: A

as you can see, I pretty much stayed the same throughout.

I wasn't going to mention anything about it on my applications, but I went through my last 2 years of undergrad dealing with an abusive relationship. Someone who actually discouraged me from going into medicine in the first place when I had a change of heart regarding my career. Finally, my senior year of undergrad, I was able to gain the strength to file a restraining order and break out of the vicious cycle which honestly really consumed me. (I made a formal complaint with the school as well).
I went into the post bac directly after graduation, and I suffered from depression and anxiety resulting from the past experiences and trying to normalize my life style again. Finally, I decided to seek medical assistance and am on antidepressants currently.
I did not want to mention any of this on my application because I didn't want schools to think that I was making excuses for my lack of performance but I truly did struggle.
My science grades are not horrid as you can see, but I know they aren't the best.

Luckily I was able to pull myself together and score well on my MCATs which I hope is my saving grace, along with my ECs

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

With an 88th percentile MCAT and a >3.0 GPA I do believe you can get in somewhere as long as you interview well. Your post-bacc grades are going to be brought up if you get interviewed and are going to raise some doubts so you better be ready to explain and make your case that you can handle med school.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Although I agree your gpa should be higher, I disagree with many on here. I think having a 512 will be enough of an advantage to get in to a new school or those that love high meats (coastal touros and azcom)

Actually I think AZCOM has now started looking for GPAs above 3.3, at least that's the trend I've noticed among my friends. They still love high MCAT scores though, just people below 3.3 seem to be put in the interview waitlist.

 

[DO2015CA]

The opinions on here are not just based on strictly a low gpa. It's the fact that the op got a lower gpa AND THEN went on to underperform an all science post bac. That's the issue.


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I was factoring that in. Outside of those that screen <3.25 or the established schools. I think a 3.1 mixed with that mcat will give them a chance.

Sdn is a place where we tend to over exaggerate. The fact is I've talked to at least a handful of my classmates that had high MCAT scores and were only at a DO school because of their gpas. Some of them being just over 3.0. As to whether people were telling the truth I cannot say, but there is still a chance for new programs

 

[gamieg]

My post back course work:

Bio I: B+
Lab: A
Bio II: B-
Lab: A
Chem I: B-
Lab: A
Chem II: B+
Lab: A
Physics I: B+
Lab: A
Physics II: B-
Lab: A
Orgo I: B-
Lab: A
Orgo II: B-
Lab: A

as you can see, I pretty much stayed the same throughout.

I wasn't going to mention anything about it on my applications, but I went through my last 2 years of undergrad dealing with an abusive relationship. Someone who actually discouraged me from going into medicine in the first place when I had a change of heart regarding my career. Finally, my senior year of undergrad, I was able to gain the strength to file a restraining order and break out of the vicious cycle which honestly really consumed me. (I made a formal complaint with the school as well).
I went into the post bac directly after graduation, and I suffered from depression and anxiety resulting from the past experiences and trying to normalize my life style again. Finally, I decided to seek medical assistance and am on antidepressants currently.
I did not want to mention any of this on my application because I didn't want schools to think that I was making excuses for my lack of performance but I truly did struggle.
My science grades are not horrid as you can see, but I know they aren't the best.

Luckily I was able to pull myself together and score well on my MCATs which I hope is my saving grace, along with my ECs

actually I really suggest you mentioning what you went through. I'm glad you're doing better, but addressing your experiences and how you've grown through them is an important part of the application process. it'll show adcoms more of who you are and serve as an explanation for not doing as well as you would have liked academically. there's a huge difference between making excuses and explaining, and the latter would definitely work in your favor.

your postbac grades aren't terrible for sure, but I think the question adcoms might ask is "is this applicant mature enough to make good decisions in med school and still do well academically, potentially in the face of additional adversity?" we all know "life" happens, and it'll continue to happen while in med school. I can't imagine what you've been through, but I'm trying to look at your application through my personal experiences with adcoms. I came out of undergrad with a terrible GPA, did a postbac, and was lucky enough to have a great cycle this time around. but I don't think I would've done well if I didn't try to put myself in adcoms' shoes and see how they might view my application. I think what they'd think about your application so far is something along the lines of:

1. your emotional trauma is understandable, but why did you jump into postbac right out of undergrad instead of taking time to recover and make sure that you would do well in your postbac?
2. if you were recovering well through your postbac, why did your grades stay relatively stagnant throughout?
3. if you knew you weren't doing as well as you liked during your postbac, why didn't you stop halfway and let yourself recuperate before tackling that courseload and kicking butt?
4. if "life" happened again to you in med school, how can we be sure you would make good decisions for your life and our school given this track record?

adcoms see potential med students as investments, and they want you to do well and thrive to become a good physician. in almost every single interview I've attended, I've been asked some variation (whether obvious or implied) of the question "how do you know you'll do well in our program?" or "how do you know you won't make the same mistakes as before when your academics suffered?" it's an important question, and a justified one at that.

 

[tony101]

Working part time isn't an excuse many students work at least part time. I worked full time and still managed a 3.8 in hard science degree. It was a selling point for me in my application. Medical school will be more than a full time job and undergrad pales in comparison in respects to time. If you try to use that excuse that will reassure adcoms that you can't handle it.

Okay in this point, I am going to assume you did average full time and average full time student(That means, not 1 class a quarter or something like that)
You were working 40-60(which is what most people work average) hours a week and taking 3-4 classes a quarter and got a 3.8 GPA(in both cGPA and sGPA?) Well then good sir, I must say either you are skewing something OR you are beyond not common. Studies show that most people need to at least put in around 15 hours a class to get an A(Assuming the standard 4 unit class for quarter system which is what I used). Even assuming 3 classes, that would be 45 hours, that means you were doing 45-60 hours for class + 40-60 hours for work(and around the companies schedule) so at least 85 hours and max of 120 hours a week and maintained spectacular grades in the process.
This isn't even assuming moving back and fourth from school and work AND cooking food to eat and only with 168 hours in a week. So either you are skewing what you did or you did something that was BEYOND amazing. Most people do not work full time and do school full time at the same time but if you actually did that, then I truly tip my hat off to you because that is extremely incredible.
I would actually say this was a selling point for you because most people cannot do that which means you can do incredible work if you just focused on one thing.

 

[HMtoDO]

I don't think he skewed anything. When I decided to go back to school to pursue medical school I was still active duty and was averaging 60hr/wk and 12-15cr a semester on mostly night and weekend classes and kept a 4.0 of both cGPA and sGPA. In fact my first and only couple B's were right after getting out of the military and trying to transition into civilian life. Balancing a full time job and full course load and doing well is not all that uncommon these days. Met plenty of people on the interview trail who did just that.


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[tony101]

I don't think he skewed anything. When I decided to go back to school to pursue medical school I was still active duty and was averaging 60hr/wk and 12-15cr a semester on mostly night and weekend classes and kept a 4.0 of both cGPA and sGPA. In fact my first and only couple B's were right after getting out of the military and trying to transition into civilian life. Balancing a full time job and full course load and doing well is not all that uncommon these days. Met plenty of people on the interview trail who did just that.


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It's actually extremely uncommon(And when I say uncommon, I mean happens far less than 50% of the time) in the point where people work *Full time*, as in working 40-60 hours a week and doing the rest of classes. I believe most studies barely find maybe 25% of students work full time jobs, at most.(Only found a study or so that found this number, other has students working at 25-30 hours, thus not full time). I'm just stating the vast majority of people do not work full 40-60 hours a week, however obviously some people do. My sister tried working 2 jobs(around 80 hours a week) and tried taking 2-3 classes and actually failed all her classes miserably. So if you were able to do that, again kudos!
https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/Press-release-WorkingLearners__FINAL.pdf
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/29/more-college-students-are-working-while-studying.html
Also extremely impressive, 60 hours a week and 45 hours a week on school(for 3 classes) AND keeping a 4.0? Damn, drop mic.
Edit: Also keep in mind, when I say most kids don't do that, I mean don't do it and keep good grades up. The 25% only takes into account kids working, not their actual performance, thus not maintaining high grades. I have to say, you are extremely impressive, as in a 4.0 working a full time job of 60 hours a week.
My brother is a paralegal, he was working 12 hour days(8-7:30 or so), I have no idea how he would of done 3-4 classes on top of that(not counting when they needed him on weekends) and gotten a 4.0 GPA in a major for biology, even in the simpler bio majors. So again, I tip my hat off to you.

 

[HMtoDO]

Perhaps I was lucky enough to run into a few during my interviews. I did not find it easy to say the least and i would never recommend it to anyone but it was the only option for me so I had no other choice.

I look back on it now and it was absolutely miserable but I've been through much worse in my life so it was easy to just keep pushing. Either way I don't think it's a path that should be taken unless no other option remains.


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[sammiesings]

It's actually extremely uncommon(And when I say uncommon, I mean happens far less than 50% of the time) in the point where people work *Full time*, as in working 40-60 hours a week and doing the rest of classes. I believe most studies barely find maybe 25% of students work full time jobs, at most.(Only found a study or so that found this number, other has students working at 25-30 hours, thus not full time). I'm just stating the vast majority of people do not work full 40-60 hours a week, however obviously some people do. My sister tried working 2 jobs(around 80 hours a week) and tried taking 2-3 classes and actually failed all her classes miserably. So if you were able to do that, again kudos!
https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/Press-release-WorkingLearners__FINAL.pdf
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/29/more-college-students-are-working-while-studying.html
Also extremely impressive, 60 hours a week and 45 hours a week on school(for 3 classes) AND keeping a 4.0? Damn, drop mic.
Edit: Also keep in mind, when I say most kids don't do that, I mean don't do it and keep good grades up. The 25% only takes into account kids working, not their actual performance, thus not maintaining high grades. I have to say, you are extremely impressive, as in a 4.0 working a full time job of 60 hours a week.
My brother is a paralegal, he was working 12 hour days(8-7:30 or so), I have no idea how he would of done 3-4 classes on top of that(not counting when they needed him on weekends) and gotten a 4.0 GPA in a major for biology, even in the simpler bio majors. So again, I tip my hat off to you.

I think it's really funny that you're telling people they must have "skewed" something or be so remarkable if they go to school and work full time because a study tells you it's uncommon. You realize how studies work right? The average person will not succeed working and studying. But not everyone is average. There are people that don't have any other options so they make it work. Not to mention, not everyone needs the average amount of study time to get an a, difficulty of courses varies wildly among undergrads. Etc etc. Critical thinking skills >spitting out statistics.

OP, yeah it totally sucks you were in an abusive relationship but unfortunately adcoms aren't going to factor that in when they see you basically got straight B's in a post bac. The reason for that is they will wonder why you chose to do your classes while being mentally unwell. It makes it look like you have poor judgement when you could have just waited to enter post bacc after dealing with your personal issues. Also, working part-time would have helped your application if you had done really well. Since you didn't, they're not going to give you leeway on their decision for your application.

 

[holdthemayo]

I was factoring that in. Outside of those that screen <3.25 or the established schools. I think a 3.1 mixed with that mcat will give them a chance.

Sdn is a place where we tend to over exaggerate. The fact is I've talked to at least a handful of my classmates that had high MCAT scores and were only at a DO school because of their gpas. Some of them being just over 3.0. As to whether people were telling the truth I cannot say, but there is still a chance for new programs

Agreed. I think @sb9493 has a decent shot, provided shadowing, volunteering, etc is in line. OP isn't likely to get an II from an established school, but newer schools seem to be recruiting a different pool of applicants than the "better" DO schools.

A 3.1 with an 512 MCAT gives OP a higher LizzyM than some of the Accepted students telling him/her not to apply.

OP: Do whatever you can between now and applying to help your chances. Continue volunteering as much as posible between now and applying. Your shadowing hours and research are good, but make sure you get some hours with a DO if you haven't already. Stay on top of the depression/anxiety/emotional healing.

If you can retake a class or two (and get an A in them) between now and then, it might help.

Edit: also didn't see earlier you were a history major... which is even more for concern. Non science majors typically have much higher GPA's because the rigor is not as much as a hard science. So that coupled with an equally low science post bac is not reassuring at all.

Sorry, but this is incorrect.

Applicant/Matriculant data shows that Social Science and Humanities majors tend to have slightly lower or average GPAs and higher MCAT scores than hard science majors. This is true among both applicants and matriculants.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/factstablea17.pdf

 

[HMtoDO]

Agreed. I think @sb9493 has a decent shot, provided shadowing, volunteering, etc is in line. OP isn't likely to get an II from an established school, but newer schools seem to be recruiting a different pool of applicants than the "better" DO schools.

A 3.1 with an 512 MCAT gives OP a higher LizzyM than some of the Accepted students telling him/her not to apply.

OP: Do whatever you can between now and applying to help your chances. Continue volunteering as much as posible between now and applying. Your shadowing hours and research are good, but make sure you get some hours with a DO if you haven't already. Stay on top of the depression/anxiety/emotional healing.

If you can retake a class or two (and get an A in them) between now and then, it might help.




Sorry, but this is incorrect.

Applicant/Matriculant data shows that Social Science and Humanities majors tend to have slightly lower or average GPAs and higher MCAT scores than hard science majors. This is true among both applicants and matriculants.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/factstablea17.pdf

Interesting data. The difference is less than I would have expected but given the huge pool of applicants it seems correct. I seriously have NEVER seen it though. I was a humanities major and it was even brought up by an interviewer about my low gpa and how rare it is for a non science major to have a low cGPA and high sGPA.

No one here is saying that a 3.1 is the reason that OP is going to have a tough time. It's the fact that the post bac was so poor. The only saving grace to OP's post bac gpa is the lab grades. Other wise it is literally almost all B-'s. we are saying they are going to have a tough time (read: not impossible) because it shows they have yet to demonstrate they can handle a rigorous curriculum. If you have someone who ended undergrad with a 2.5 and then did a post bac of all sciences with a 3.8 and moved their gpa up to a 3.1, they would be in an exponentially better position EVEN with a slightly lower MCAT. Performing well on one standardized test does not wipe away continuous mediocrity. Outliers should never be taken as the standard.


I applied with a 3.2 cGPA. After 3 years of undergrad I had a 2.1. But my last 90 credits were at a 3.9. I had to answer at every interview my poor past performance and my only saving grace was that I had demonstrated with continuous excellent performance that I could handle the academics required to be successful . I also had a lower MCAT but I got in to every school I interviewed at and cancelled numerous other interviews. The point is it is possible but you can't expect ADCOM's to say "oh look a 512, let's just ignore this students continued mediocre performance and poor decisions to keep going without fixing whatever is causing them to not be successful in school".

So in short yes they can get accepted but is an uphill battle. To say otherwise is naive.

Edit: wanted to add that as I too was an underdog I am a huge supporter of students like myself and learned a wealth of knowledge from these forums. But the last thing I wanted was sugarcoated advice or that i MAY have a shot. I wanted to know what I needed to do going into the situation to give me the BEST chance possible for an acceptance.


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[holdthemayo]

I seriously have NEVER seen it though.

This is basically my point. You made a blanket statement without having looked at the data to see if it was true. It wasn't.

No one here is saying that a 3.1 is the reason that OP is going to have a tough time. It's the fact that the post bac was so poor. The only saving grace to OP's post bac gpa is the lab grades. Other wise it is literally almost all B-'s. we are saying they are going to have a tough time (read: not impossible) because it shows they have yet to demonstrate they can handle a rigorous curriculum. If you have someone who ended undergrad with a 2.5 and then did a post bac of all sciences with a 3.8 and moved their gpa up to a 3.1, they would be in an exponentially better position EVEN with a slightly lower MCAT. Performing well on one standardized test does not wipe away continuous mediocrity. Outliers should never be taken as the standard.


I applied with a 3.2 cGPA. After 3 years of undergrad I had a 2.1. But my last 90 credits were at a 3.9. I had to answer at every interview my poor past performance and my only saving grace was that I had demonstrated with continuous excellent performance that I could handle the academics required to be successful . I also had a lower MCAT but I got in to every school I interviewed at and cancelled numerous other interviews. The point is it is possible but you can't expect ADCOM's to say "oh look a 512, let's just ignore this students continued mediocre performance and poor decisions to keep going without fixing whatever is causing them to not be successful in school".

So in short yes they can get accepted but is an uphill battle. To say otherwise is naive.

Edit: wanted to add that as I too was an underdog I am a huge supporter of students like myself and learned a wealth of knowledge from these forums. But the last thing I wanted was sugarcoated advice or that i MAY have a shot. I wanted to know what I needed to do going into the situation to give me the BEST chance possible for an acceptance.


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Low GPA/High(ish) MCAT makes OP an outlier by definition. I understand GPA repair. I was a bigger underdog than you or OP.

There are several DO schools with average GPAs of 3.4. Some of those school have MCAT averages in the 490s. That's not even including the 5 schools opening in 2017 and the 5 planned for 2018! OP with a 3.1/512 is going to look attractive to some of those schools. Especially with a retake or two this spring.

These new schools are recruiting a different group of students than the more established schools. OP won't be your classmate, or mine, but he/she will could be our colleague in a few years with those stats. A bit of grade repair to get the GPA to the 3.3 range makes it even more likely.

 

[psu228]

OP,

I'm pretty confident that if you apply broadly to DO programs that you WILL be accepted somewhere. But be advised that some programs state openly in their FAQs that if you don't have at least a 3.2 your chances of getting in at their schools are pretty slim.

I think upper tier DO schools like PCOM are probably not realistic for you. But like the poster above said there are a ton of new programs opening this year and next year and quite frankly I'd be surprised if you weren't competitive for them and some of the "lower tier" DO schools.

I know there is a stigma about DO and "lower tier" DO schools in general, but if you handle your business you should be able to be competitive in the match and won't be resigned to being a PCP in a rural area (if thats not what you want to do, that is, nothing wrong with that path).

After my sophomore year I went to talk to my pre med advisor. I had a good overall GPA (I'm a history major too and quite frankly I can't make out how your GPA was so low with that major) and pretty good science, but I only had two As in 6 pre requisite course at that point. She pointed out that I needed As to demonstrate my ability properly to med schools. The fact that you have zero As in your post bacc is troubling.

So by all means apply broadly I think you will be competitive. But I would also be proactive in the meantime and retake at least ten chem 1 at a CC and get an A. I had to do the same thing. The grade replacement will be pretty sizable for you though. And you'll at least somewhat demonstrate that you can master the material in class.

 

[HMtoDO]

A bit of grade repair to get the GPA to the 3.3 range makes it even more likely.

Yes. The exact point we are all making.

Good luck OP!


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[redsox93]

idk why so many people are saying you have no chance. apply broadly and I feel like your chances are pretty good at getting in somewhere. A 3.1 isn't the end of the world especially with that MCAT score.

If people can get in with 500 MCAT scores I feel like it's possible to get into school with a >3.0 GPA.

 

[holdthemayo]

Yes. The exact point we are all making.

Is it though?

I'm not even sure grade replacement would be enough to save you.

 

[HMtoDO]

Is it though?

Yes. Stats don't make everything which is why you can't take stats at face value, as I have shown in the previous scenario. I have overcame a 2.1 gpa and a 488 MCAT... so I clearly believe in the power of reinvention.

we are beating a dead horse so I am exiting this thread.

Good luck OP


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[AnatomyGrey12]

With those stats OP will definitely get in somewhere. The MCAT alone will draw in the newer and more rural schools. The established schools are probably out unless the GPA gets above 3.2-3.3. That seems to be the magic GPA where they stop caring. My 3.2+ sGPA with my MCAT a little higher than OP got me into numerous "top" programs. I have no idea how they will react to it being a post-bac however, something you are supposed to do well in.

 

[dwgrubbs1s]

Maybe apply to newer schools and apply early. Make sure the other areas of your application are strong as well as it will be needed to help supplement for the gpa. What was the breakdown on your MCAT score?

 

[DO2015CA]

Okay in this point, I am going to assume you did average full time and average full time student(That means, not 1 class a quarter or something like that)
You were working 40-60(which is what most people work average) hours a week and taking 3-4 classes a quarter and got a 3.8 GPA(in both cGPA and sGPA?) Well then good sir, I must say either you are skewing something OR you are beyond not common. Studies show that most people need to at least put in around 15 hours a class to get an A(Assuming the standard 4 unit class for quarter system which is what I used). Even assuming 3 classes, that would be 45 hours, that means you were doing 45-60 hours for class + 40-60 hours for work(and around the companies schedule) so at least 85 hours and max of 120 hours a week and maintained spectacular grades in the process.
This isn't even assuming moving back and fourth from school and work AND cooking food to eat and only with 168 hours in a week. So either you are skewing what you did or you did something that was BEYOND amazing. Most people do not work full time and do school full time at the same time but if you actually did that, then I truly tip my hat off to you because that is extremely incredible.
I would actually say this was a selling point for you because most people cannot do that which means you can do incredible work if you just focused on one thing.

'Tis called being able to eat and not giving up on your dreams. I worked 40 and took 18-21 units a semester because it's what I had to do. I had no support and if you've seen me on other threads you know I grew up extremely poor. It's what needed to be done and it was. I worked nights and weekends. I had more than a few friends that would spend close close to 40 hours a week drinking and smoking pot and still pull high grades. I just didn't have that luxury. Instead of going out at night I went to work. Diligent ya but if you've seen true poverty you do anything you can to run from it

 

[AlteredScale]

Moving to WAMC.

 

[theBriefing]

I agree with MakeLifeHappen. You CAN get in. But I think it would be best if you do another year of post bac and get all As

 

[sb9493]

128 in each section!

Also, the thing is I applying for matriculation in 2018. Due to financial issues, I will not be able to take anymore classes so I am stuck with these grades.
During this time off, I am working full time as lab technician at a OBGYN lab, continuing research, and I will start shadowing a DO physician again. (Extra hours don't hurt I suppose!)

That's why I posted this thread because these are the stats I'm stuck with. I'm hoping these newer schools will find my application attractive. I also wouldn't mind working in schools which have that rural environment agreement.

 

[tony101]

I think it's really funny that you're telling people they must have "skewed" something or be so remarkable if they go to school and work full time because a study tells you it's uncommon. You realize how studies work right? The average person will not succeed working and studying. But not everyone is average. There are people that don't have any other options so they make it work. Not to mention, not everyone needs the average amount of study time to get an a, difficulty of courses varies wildly among undergrads. Etc etc. Critical thinking skills >spitting out statistics.

I am saying it's either they did it OR they tweaked it a bit since it is an internet chat HOWEVER if they didn't tweak it then I say amazing job. Also that is another extrapolation you are making on the point of people being "average" BUT the kids they choose were kids at Universities, unless we are going to call kids going to colleges "average people", then you can't really make that generalization. Regardless, I am saying something that is not at all average in both regards is extremely impressive which is true. Anyways, I am using the average hours needed for college students to succeed as designed by multiple different studies. Of course it varies per person but I can't just make up a random metric, so I used ones that have been shown to be more or less accurate.

Anyways besides this point, I think the OP has a decent chance for new schools. The 512 is a great score and the GPA's aren't amazing but the MCAT score should help alot for new schools.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

My post back course work:

Bio I: B+
Lab: A
Bio II: B-
Lab: A
Chem I: B-
Lab: A
Chem II: B+
Lab: A
Physics I: B+
Lab: A
Physics II: B-
Lab: A
Orgo I: B-
Lab: A
Orgo II: B-
Lab: A

as you can see, I pretty much stayed the same throughout.

I wasn't going to mention anything about it on my applications, but I went through my last 2 years of undergrad dealing with an abusive relationship. Someone who actually discouraged me from going into medicine in the first place when I had a change of heart regarding my career. Finally, my senior year of undergrad, I was able to gain the strength to file a restraining order and break out of the vicious cycle which honestly really consumed me. (I made a formal complaint with the school as well).
I went into the post bac directly after graduation, and I suffered from depression and anxiety resulting from the past experiences and trying to normalize my life style again. Finally, I decided to seek medical assistance and am on antidepressants currently.
I did not want to mention any of this on my application because I didn't want schools to think that I was making excuses for my lack of performance but I truly did struggle.
My science grades are not horrid as you can see, but I know they aren't the best.

Luckily I was able to pull myself together and score well on my MCATs which I hope is my saving grace, along with my ECs

Your grades are not terrible, and if you apply broadly, you may have luck. However, you need to be careful with what you write. If I saw it, I would be against your candidacy. You say you were abused, so your grades suffered. Fine. What happened in post-bacc? You were depressed over abuse. Fine. So why didn't you wait until you were okay? What reason do I have to believe you're okay now? Just because it's medical school you're magically okay now? Because you're no longer depressed or abuse I'm supposed to believe you can pull through a 4.0? Not sufficient evidence for me to consider your candidacy as being optimal at this time.