What are my dubious chances of getting into a DO school thread ...

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
please don't take this the wrong way at all, i used to work at an ivy league undergrad admissions, but you have the biggest trump card available being part native american and female. seeing as your grades are good and your MCAT is above the mean, i don't think you would have a hard time getting interviews and/or acceptances to many schools.

Members don't see this ad.
 
I love this thread! Hope you guys aren't sick of it yet, cause I got more stats for ya. . .

Hi, Ilikescience,

First of all, I want to say that you look like a pretty solid applicant to me. I think if you apply broadly and early, you stand a good chance of doing well. That said, you probably know that your GPA is bit below average for a matriculant, but I don't think it's anything alarming, or to get concerned over. It's still pretty good. If you had an upward trend in your grades and did well in your prerequisites, I think you should be fine. If you feel like it, you can take some more advanced undergraduate science classes; it definitely couldn't hurt you, especially if you get all A's, but you are right, it probably won't affect your GPA very much.

You have a lot of good EC's, so there's nothing constructive for me to say there. Good job. You look very interesting and will have lots to write about in essays and to talk about during interviews. Keep up the great work in this area.

Your MCAT score is above average for an osteopathic matriculant. Good job there. Your VR score is not that bad, but in the context of the other two sections, it kind of stands out, but the worst that will happen in my opinion is that you'll be asked to address it during an interview. Retaking the MCAT, in my opinion, is a risky move, because there is chance that you'll stay the same, or actually do worse, on one or more sections. I think you should only consider retaking the MCAT if you can consistantly and significantly improve your VR on practice tests and score higher or the same on the other sections, otherwise, it might not be worth the risk of doing worse. Your MCAT is fine, with the exception of possibly having to explain an unbalanced score. It's not a big deal, in my opinion, so don't sweat it. I had a 28, with a 7 in PS. I attended two out of the three interviews that I got invited to attend and not a single interviewer brought it up.

As for choosing schools, I created a guide that may help you figure what schools to pick. Also, check out the Statistical Values for Osteopathic Medical Schools post, which contains assorted links that, together, provide some interesting information on the osteopathic medical schools.

Good luck and take everything I said with at least a grain of salt.
 
24f (from Cali)
part native american, but not enrolled in a tribe
(want to work at Indian Health Center or on Reservation)
Grad from UC

I would ask that you consider ATSU-SOMA, in Mesa, AZ. Much of your clinical education will be at a Community Health Center, tailored to the particular needs of a community, from a demographic and health-need standpoint. They will be sending their students to one of 11 CHC's nationwide, and one such CHC has been officially deisgnated as responsive to the needs of Native American health care, and is located in Arizona. Because I requested, and have been assigned to, the Visalia/Porterville, CA CHC, I don't know a lot about the Native American AZ CHC, but if you do some poking around, I'm sure you'll get a lot of information about it. Good luck, and please check them out, as it might be a good fit for you.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I applied to 17 schools (more counting the pre-secondary rejections..) and got interviewed at 3 with a 32 MCAT and a ~95th percentile verbal score. My GPA was a 3.25. I think that it is realistic to say that an applicant needs over a 30 for a competitive shot. Sorry Mraz, this may be the first and only time I disagree with you, but I am disagreeing with you nonetheless.

If your GPA is <3.3 then you should be shooting for high 20's at least for a shot at PCOM, CCOM, MSUCOM, UMDNJ-SOM, NYCOM, etc.

i see your point , however -

the rabbit hole runs both ways. my ug. gpa was only a 3.15 sci and 3.2 overall, and i got interviews at CCOM, NYCOM, PCOM and Nova with a mid twenties MCAT. i DID retake the MCAT and score in the 30 range - but that was after i was offered an interview.
 
i see your point , however -

the rabbit hole runs both ways. my ug. gpa was only a 3.15 sci and 3.2 overall, and i got interviews at CCOM, NYCOM, PCOM and Nova with a mid twenties MCAT. i DID retake the MCAT and score in the 30 range - but that was after i was offered an interview.

That really tells us nothing without more information. Ok so you were interviewed at good DO schools with below average gpa and right at average or below MCAT. So you probably had good EC's or you applied very early or....etc etc. Unless you want to give us all the information necessary and then prove your point that you were a way below average app and still got these great interviews you are really giving us no good information.

In addition read all of my and Spiced's comments regarding what our goal is with this thread. Then we can proceed with a conversation if you still think what we are doing is not to your liking.

Thanks.
 
That really tells us nothing without more information. Ok so you were interviewed at good DO schools with below average gpa and right at average or below MCAT. So you probably had good EC's or you applied very early or....etc etc. Unless you want to give us all the information necessary and then prove your point that you were a way below average app and still got these great interviews you are really giving us no good information.

In addition read all of my and Spiced's comments regarding what our goal is with this thread. Then we can proceed with a conversation if you still think what we are doing is not to your liking.

Thanks.


sigh.

thanks for labeling me as a "way below average applicant", that really adds to the motivational spirit of this thread.

When i applied to CCOM, NYCOM, etc, admissions counselors usually told me an applicant likely to get an interview would have a 3.3 to 3.4 overall and science gpa, and mid twenties MCAT. I wasn't very far off the map.

In my case, i believe that my ec's and otherwise were average, and yes, i did apply early. ( late summer ). the "averge" applicant admitted to D.O school in the U.S. has roughly a 3.3 overall and science gpa , and roughly a 25 - 26 MCAT. If someone applies with a 3.2 ( whoah, .1 lower !) and a 25 MCAT, i dont think they need to compensate by increasing their MCAT to a 30 ( should they try to ? of course! the better the MCAT, the higher their chances ) . thats all i'm saying.

I think this is a great thread - and i agree with you and spiced's comments from earlier as well. All i was really trying to say with my earlier post was:

"hey, maybe people with 3.2's and 30's will get rejected, but at the same time, people with 3.2's and 25's (me) will get interviews too". I'm not trying to get into any arguments, just thought i'd share my own experiences. but since i'm such a below average applicant, perhaps i'll keep my experiences to myself. later chief.
 
sigh.

thanks for labeling me as a "way below average applicant", that really adds to the motivational spirit of this thread.

When i applied to CCOM, NYCOM, etc, admissions counselors usually told me an applicant likely to get an interview would have a 3.3 to 3.4 overall and science gpa, and mid twenties MCAT. I wasn't very far off the map.

In my case, i believe that my ec's and otherwise were average, and yes, i did apply early. ( late summer ). the "averge" applicant admitted to D.O school in the U.S. has roughly a 3.3 overall and science gpa , and roughly a 25 - 26 MCAT. If someone applies with a 3.2 ( whoah, .1 lower !) and a 25 MCAT, i dont think they need to compensate by increasing their MCAT to a 30 ( should they try to ? of course! the better the MCAT, the higher their chances ) . thats all i'm saying.

I think this is a great thread - and i agree with you and spiced's comments from earlier as well. All i was really trying to say with my earlier post was:

"hey, maybe people with 3.2's and 30's will get rejected, but at the same time, people with 3.2's and 25's (me) will get interviews too". I'm not trying to get into any arguments, just thought i'd share my own experiences. but since i'm such a below average applicant, perhaps i'll keep my experiences to myself. later chief.

Perhaps you didnt get what I was doing, but I was showing that you were the one emphasizing below average scores with interviews. Hence I was exaggerating your case as you tried to do.

Just to help you with numbers you said your sci was 3.15 and overall was 3.2. Averages for the 2006 annual report were 3.36 sci and 3.54 overall. So .1 (wow) turns into .21 and .34 if you do not think those are semi big numbers then you must be able to change your gpa easier than most people.

Again I told you to read our posts for a reason, but you are also beating the horse which we have responded to time and time again now. :sleep:
 
Thank you poly800rock, spicedmanna and stringerbell. I really appreciate the in depth feedback. It really helps. More suggestions and advice is welcome. I'm gonna take all I can get. :D
 
Thank you poly800rock, spicedmanna and stringerbell. I really appreciate the in depth feedback. It really helps. More suggestions and advice is welcome. I'm gonna take all I can get. :D


As usual Spiced offered great advice. Not sure anything can really be added to it. I saw you want to retake your MCAT with a 27, not entirely sure why you would want to do that unless either you think you can do MUCH better or you are trying for MD schools. A 27 can definitely get you interviews at DO schools and as has been said before but your EC's are great.

Not sure what else to say. Goodluck though!!!
 
Perhaps you didnt get what I was doing, but I was showing that you were the one emphasizing below average scores with interviews. Hence I was exaggerating your case as you tried to do.

Just to help you with numbers you said your sci was 3.15 and overall was 3.2. Averages for the 2006 annual report were 3.36 sci and 3.54 overall. So .1 (wow) turns into .21 and .34 if you do not think those are semi big numbers then you must be able to change your gpa easier than most people.

Again I told you to read our posts for a reason, but you are also beating the horse which we have responded to time and time again now. :sleep:

to me it looks more like you are very reluctant to see things from different perspective. And you acctually seem to be the one beating a dead horse. Everyone has a right to their own opinion on the public forums. That is what the forum is for and having a different point of view doesn't mean that one is more right then the other but it gives op more in depth advice.
I also understand why MRa2z got offended with your responce. You came across quite rude. Maybe you didn't mean to but that is how you sounded. Almost like you were attacking him because he was trying to show you a different point of view (quite away from your own) from his experiance.

Taking the national average for marticulants as a predictor of statistical chances is not very logical. School A is different from school B is different from school C etc.
I emailed all the schools i was interested in. If you do a little bit of homework you can find out at the source where you are statistically standing. And it is not very hard to do. I emailed DCOM found out their average (email responce was from Dr. Leo) was 25 MCAT and 3.2 gpa. LECOM emailed me saying 3.2 GPA and 23 MCAT is the average for a marticulant at their school.
CCOM has a special interactive web where you can ask an ADCOM advisor specific questions. I have been in contact with Michael for over 2 years now always asking about certain things in the application, volunteering, classes to take, pretty much anything. He is a real nice guy and really helpful (and for sure has much more knowledge of the statistics as you will find on these forums).
According to him average MCAT last year was 26 and GPA 3.45. He also clarified an old topic that was running here on forums about CC classes. I retook one class at CC and asked him about it. He said it is absolutely fine and acctually most of the applicants retake classes at CC since it is more convinient and cheeper (i read on these forums how bad taking CC classes supposedly was). I could go on forever about this and list stats for every school i emailed.
So before you start sounding like an alfa and omega try to be a little bit more open or acctualy find out things at the source rather then giving people missleading information. Ofcourse it doesn't take the inteligence of Einstein to figure out that improving apps stats will help you, we all know it, but there ARE ppl who are average and still will be offered interviews and acceptances.
 
to me it looks more like you are very reluctant to see things from different perspective. And you acctually seem to be the one beating a dead horse. Everyone has a right to their own opinion on the public forums. That is what the forum is for and having a different point of view doesn't mean that one is more right then the other but it gives op more in depth advice.
I also understand why MRa2z got offended with your responce. You came across quite rude. Maybe you didn't mean to but that is how you sounded. Almost like you were attacking him because he was trying to show you a different point of view (quite away from your own) from his experiance.

Taking the national average for marticulants as a predictor of statistical chances is not very logical. School A is different from school B is different from school C etc.
I emailed all the schools i was interested in. If you do a little bit of homework you can find out at the source where you are statistically standing. And it is not very hard to do. I emailed DCOM found out their average (email responce was from Dr. Leo) was 25 MCAT and 3.2 gpa. LECOM emailed me saying 3.2 GPA and 23 MCAT is the average for a marticulant at their school.
CCOM has a special interactive web where you can ask an ADCOM advisor specific questions. I have been in contact with Michael for over 2 years now always asking about certain things in the application, volunteering, classes to take, pretty much anything. He is a real nice guy and really helpful (and for sure has much more knowledge of the statistics as you will find on these forums).
According to him average MCAT last year was 26 and GPA 3.45. He also clarified an old topic that was running here on forums about CC classes. I retook one class at CC and asked him about it. He said it is absolutely fine and acctually most of the applicants retake classes at CC since it is more convinient and cheeper (i read on these forums how bad taking CC classes supposedly was). I could go on forever about this and list stats for every school i emailed.
So before you start sounding like an alfa and omega try to be a little bit more open or acctualy find out things at the source rather then giving people missleading information. Ofcourse it doesn't take the inteligence of Einstein to figure out that improving apps stats will help you, we all know it, but there ARE ppl who are average and still will be offered interviews and acceptances.

Honestly you must have read none of the responses I have given, or Spiced has given, to what you two have said.

This has never had anything to do with taking other people's advice. You guys have stated time and time again the same thing and we have responded, knowing full well what you are saying and continue to agree with you, however, stating our reasons for what we say in our posts.

Stating averages was what he did, to make his argument better, I corrected him in order to void what he was saying in trying to mock me.

I am done addressing this issue, read what I have said you will see I was never at odds with anything you stated. I admitted your ideas were true in all respects but I give the advice I give based on trying to make people do better than average for a reason.
 
I think we can all agree that this thread has completely been de-railed.

So...uhm...

I have a 2.9 uGPA
3.9 graduate GPA, all science (30 units.)
MCAT: 34R
Non-trad, 5+ years working in health care, full-time
(Osteopathic clinic, then at a hospital.)
ORM

I would like to stay on the west coast, or thereabouts.
Comments?
 
I think we can all agree that this thread has completely been de-railed.

So...uhm...

I have a 2.9 uGPA
3.9 graduate GPA, all science (30 units.)
MCAT: 34R
Non-trad, 5+ years working in health care, full-time
(Osteopathic clinic, then at a hospital.)
ORM

I would like to stay on the west coast, or thereabouts.
Comments?

Despite your below average GPA, I think you stand a good chance. Call it a hunch. The key here is to apply EARLY; as the old saying goes, "the early bird..." Well, you know.

Basically, you have a superb graduate GPA in the sciences that indicates that you do have what it takes to do well academically in medical school. Your amazing MCAT score corroborates this hypothesis and further suggests that you probably had some poor fortune in your undergraduate years, but the baseline ability is there. Additionally, by doing well on your MCAT, you show that you have the potential to do well on standardized tests, such as the COMLEX-USA Level 1. Now, it is possible that some schools will have a problem with your low UGPA, but others will look at it in context of your other assests and academic work. It is possible that interviewers will ask you to address your prior academic performance; make sure you can address it well. Again, the key is to apply early and to get complete at the schools as early as you can. I cannot emphasize this enough.

I think you will probably interview well, given that you are a non-traditional applicant and have a lot of interesting stories to tell. Also, you seem to have solid clinical experience, which should be of benefit. You can definitely leverage that. Also, make sure you know how to answer the question, "Why medicine, now?"

There are some really good schools on the west coast. I really liked COMP. Apply early there and get complete with them promptly. Make sure to follow up to ensure proper completion.

All in all, despite early poor performance, I think you are a decent applicant. The key is applying EARLY and broadly. Give your best shot.

;) :D
 
Members don't see this ad :)
stringerbell,

i concur with spiced. plus,

i had a friend in a similar situation. the summer he applied he retook a course or two ( from under grad ) and was able to boost his gpa over the 3.0 mark. Though the difference between a 2.9 and a 3.0 may not be huge, a "3.something" tends to look better than a "2.something". with your MCAT i'd say you have a good shot. gdluck.
 
I really liked COMP. Apply early there and get complete with them promptly. Make sure to follow up to ensure proper completion.

:lol:

Bwahahha, you've been paying very careful attention to my progress, haven't you? :)
 
OK here it goes

3.35 ugpa 3.5 science

MCAT, have not taken it, but initial diagnostics are putting me in low 20's range (But I have taken no classes such as kaplan, and I have not prepped for it at all)

EC:
1) Shadowed a DO for a month and a half. (About 3 hours a week)
2) Volunteered in an assisted living home
3) Worked at the American cancer society, assisted cancer patients and tried to help them find appropriate treatment options etc etc.
4) Taught martial arts, attained black belt, won first in state competition sparring match.
5) Debate team, won first place on state wide business ethics competition.


I am not applying until NEXT summer, still need organic chem. 2/physics 2 and a biology class.

What should I do to strengthen my chances, other than studying hard for the MCAT and applying early?

Thanks!
 
CrazyLikeAFox said:
OK here it goes

We're ready for you, CrazyLikeAFox!

3.35 ugpa 3.5 science

MCAT, have not taken it, but initial diagnostics are putting me in low 20's range (But I have taken no classes such as kaplan, and I have not prepped for it at all)

EC:
1) Shadowed a DO for a month and a half. (About 3 hours a week)
2) Volunteered in an assisted living home
3) Worked at the American cancer society, assisted cancer patients and tried to help them find appropriate treatment options etc etc.
4) Taught martial arts, attained black belt, won first in state competition sparring match.
5) Debate team, won first place on state wide business ethics competition.

Hey, that's cool! I'm a second-degree black belt in TKD and was a martial arts teacher, too.

Well, you look okay from my vantage point; your overall GPA isn't spectacular, but it isn't bad either. Your science GPA is pretty good. Keep trending A's in fulltime semesters. Don't sweat the low initial diagnostic. My first diagnostic was around 21 or something and then I shot up from there as I studied. Keep improving. Figure out where your holes in knowledge and test-taking technique are and address them as you go. Buy all of the AAMC tests; they are a useful resource, in my opinion. Check out the 30+ MCAT study habits thread in the MCAT forum.

I am not applying until NEXT summer, still need organic chem. 2/physics 2 and a biology class.

I would wait until you near the completion of all of your premedical prerequisites before taking the MCAT because it is partially a test of your basic science knowledge. Some folks are able to bypass critical classes, but I wouldn't recommend it personally. It always helps to have the background knowledge before taking the MCAT, in my humble opinion.

What should I do to strengthen my chances, other than studying hard for the MCAT and applying early?

There's not more I can really suggest. Keep trending A's in fulltime semesters, keep up with the volunteering and clinical work, get strong letters of recommendation (don't wait; get them done early!), and write a good PS. Engage in some interesting activities (or keep it up), stuff that you are passionate about and that reveal your distinctiveness. Medical schools like well-rounded applicants, who have a variety of interests and experiences. Become really proactive in your ongoing experiences, take initiative where you can, and get involved in leadership roles, if possible. Some folks enjoy engaging in some biomedical research before applying. It isn't necessary, but it can be a bonus if you are interested in that sort of thing. I wouldn't do it unless the interest is there, though.

Good luck!
 
CrazyLikeAFox,

As usual not much to add from what Spiced said.

You did not specify how much volunteering you had done and you only listed it once so I would continue to get more volunteering time.

I think it was a good idea to get advice early though, that is the bane of many peoples applications; realizing you should have done a few other things too late in the process.

Other than that do not worry about the MCAT until you are done with all your prereq's and keep diversifying your experiences.

Goodluck
 
OK i will give it a shot too. Great thread by the way. You guys are very helpful:D
I am 27
B.A in History minor in psychology
GPA 3.28, sci 3.1
MCAT 24R
-unique ECs (at least that is what I was told:))
-volunteer in ER and PEDs,
-shadowed DO for over a year,
-worked as dietician assistant for fitness company,
-excellent LORs from professors and DO who know me very well
-great personal statement
I am thinking of applying to 12-15 osteopathic schools
 
OK i will give it a shot too. Great thread by the way. You guys are very helpful:D
I am 27
B.A in History minor in psychology
GPA 3.28, sci 3.1
MCAT 24R
-unique ECs (at least that is what I was told:))
-volunteer in ER and PEDs,
-shadowed DO for over a year,
-worked as dietician assistant for fitness company,
-excellent LORs from professors and DO who know me very well
-great personal statement
I am thinking of applying to 12-15 osteopathic schools


Alright well, if all is as you say you should have a decent shot. Your gpa is somewhat low and your Mcat is right near the average mark. I think you are going to need to focus on continuing to keep up your EC's as they look good but keep trying to diversify them and maybe get a leadership experience in there.

Overall I think since you are a bit older and Osteopathic programs seem to like that a bit more I think you have a good chance. It is a good idea to apply broadly like you are planning on doing. Also it will be very important for you to apply early because of your lower gpa and mcat.

Goodluck
 
Hi everyone!

I posted a "what are my chances" post awhile back, but now that applications are coming out, I have been giving myself stomachaches worrying that I wont make it in anywhere..:(

GPA: 2.9 (hopefully a little bit higher once my spring grades come in)
MCAT: 27R
EC: -Therapeutic recreation work with kids with disabilities, autism, Down Syndrome for almost 10 years
- Special Olympics Director
-Work in an Optometry office
-Volunteer for and Osteopathic Children's Center
-President of the Colleges Against Cancer organization (part of the American Cancer Society) on campus
- Relay for life co-chair
Theres more, but you get the idea..

I have great letters of rec from a DO, people I've worked with, but am having trouble getting a science professor to write me one (b/c of my low GPA).

What do you think? (Thanks in advance for your help!)
 
I'll give it a whirl:
I'm 27
BA in Cognitive Science from a competitive university
3.4 ugpa and 3.65 science (including postbac program with a 4.0 gpa)and a 29Q mcat apr 05, and 28R mcat apr 07 (i was attempting to raise my verbal from an 8, which stayed exactly the same and my ps dropped one point *sigh*)

EC
-pres of a group for 3 yrs
-board member/deejay at university radio station 3 yrs
-2 yrs clinical research with lots of patient contact, phlebotomy, ecgs, etc.(just got clinical research certification in 1/07)
-one abstract published with poster presentation
-some volunteer work, ER and AIDS Hospice (prob. like 6 months total)
-good LORs from 3 sci profs and 3 MDs (though no DO, I worked with one for a summer in 2002, but MD letters would be stronger...bad idea?)

I'm thinking: CCOM, AZCOM, DMUCOM, Western, MSUCOM, TCOM (??? I'm not from Texas), KCOM, UMDNJ...any other suggestions?

Thanks for the input...I really appreciate it!:)
 
Hi everyone!

I posted a "what are my chances" post awhile back, but now that applications are coming out, I have been giving myself stomachaches worrying that I wont make it in anywhere..:(

GPA: 2.9 (hopefully a little bit higher once my spring grades come in)
MCAT: 27R
EC: -Therapeutic recreation work with kids with disabilities, autism, Down Syndrome for almost 10 years
- Special Olympics Director
-Work in an Optometry office
-Volunteer for and Osteopathic Children's Center
-President of the Colleges Against Cancer organization (part of the American Cancer Society) on campus
- Relay for life co-chair
Theres more, but you get the idea..

I have great letters of rec from a DO, people I've worked with, but am having trouble getting a science professor to write me one (b/c of my low GPA).

What do you think? (Thanks in advance for your help!)

Ok well first off gpa, as you are well aware I am sure it is a bit low. I have even seen people say that some schools have a 3.0 cutoff. Although I do not think many of them have this. So if I were you I would do my best to hit that 3.0 mark.

MCAT is good. A 27, as been said before on here is just above average. That will help you definitely, but you still need to push that gpa if you can.

Your EC's look wonderful and so you should have a good shot in my humble opinion. You do need to get that science prof recommendation though, if I were you I would go talk to the profs in one or two of the sciences let them know your goals and perhaps talk to them about why you did not do your best in those classes. Maybe if you get to know them and they see how much you want to become a doctor they will write you a good rec. Or if you are taking more science classes now get the grades and get to know the profs while you are in the class this will be very beneficial.

Not much more I can add, and I must leave work now. I am sure Spiced will add some good info so pay attention for that.

Edit: Oh last important bit, maybe the most important - Apply early and broadly!!
Goodluck.
 
Oh last important bit, maybe the most important - Apply early and broadly!!
Goodluck.

Thanks, Animus! Do you think getting my primaries in by the end of June/Early July is too late/not early enough? I'm asking b/c my quarter won't end until mid-June and grades won't be out until after that.
 
Thanks, Animus! Do you think getting my primaries in by the end of June/Early July is too late/not early enough? I'm asking b/c my quarter won't end until mid-June and grades won't be out until after that.

That should be alright as far as time. What you could do is submit without them and update the schools that show interest in you. I do not really have experience with this personally maybe Spiced or someone else knows the best course of action here, but early July should be good enough imo.
 
Hi everyone!

I posted a "what are my chances" post awhile back, but now that applications are coming out, I have been giving myself stomachaches worrying that I wont make it in anywhere..:(

GPA: 2.9 (hopefully a little bit higher once my spring grades come in)
MCAT: 27R
EC: -Therapeutic recreation work with kids with disabilities, autism, Down Syndrome for almost 10 years
- Special Olympics Director
-Work in an Optometry office
-Volunteer for and Osteopathic Children's Center
-President of the Colleges Against Cancer organization (part of the American Cancer Society) on campus
- Relay for life co-chair
Theres more, but you get the idea..

I have great letters of rec from a DO, people I've worked with, but am having trouble getting a science professor to write me one (b/c of my low GPA).

What do you think? (Thanks in advance for your help!)

Ok well first off gpa, as you are well aware I am sure it is a bit low. I have even seen people say that some schools have a 3.0 cutoff. Although I do not think many of them have this. So if I were you I would do my best to hit that 3.0 mark.

MCAT is good. A 27, as been said before on here is just above average. That will help you definitely, but you still need to push that gpa if you can.

Your EC's look wonderful and so you should have a good shot in my humble opinion. You do need to get that science prof recommendation though, if I were you I would go talk to the profs in one or two of the sciences let them know your goals and perhaps talk to them about why you did not do your best in those classes. Maybe if you get to know them and they see how much you want to become a doctor they will write you a good rec. Or if you are taking more science classes now get the grades and get to know the profs while you are in the class this will be very beneficial.

Not much more I can add, and I must leave work now. I am sure Spiced will add some good info so pay attention for that.

Edit: Oh last important bit, maybe the most important - Apply early and broadly!!
Goodluck.

It's a bit of a tag-team effort, isn't it? :p

So, okay, what do we have here, today, drivemeh0me? I concur with my colleague, Animus. However, he's right that I'm going add a few things here, mostly my opinions and general impression. These, I want to emphasize, are my views only and not to be construed as actual fact.

It's hard to categorize you as an applicant. What I mean is, number-wise, you are not that compelling, but your work/activities seem phenomenal and you've been involved in them for quite a long time. You are sure to stand out in an interview and in your essays based on those. I applaud your accomplishments, they will work well in your favor. Definitely leverage them and write good essays.

However, we cannot ignore your limited academic accomplishments. It's largely a myth that any one factor can make up for a deficiency in any other area. Your GPA is well below average. Some schools may have a problem with it, others may balance it out with your other accomplishments. I don't know how they will respond individually and I'm not an adcom member, so I have no insight on their process. I think some schools are going to ask you to address your poor undergraduate performance during interviews, so it would behoove you to address it well. Your MCAT is pretty good, but not really exceptional in the context of your GPA; no other comments about that, except, good work on the test.

All in all, you do stand a chance if you applied as is. Apply EARLY and broadly, to all the schools you think you would attend. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of early application in your case. However, I wish to pose a question to you: are you sure you want to apply right now? If, after checking, the answer is, "yes," then I wish you good luck; give it your best go, and we'll see what happens. But if your answer is, "no," then there is another possible activity to consider that could potentially improve your chances and options here: doing some post-baccalaureate work (or extending your current baccalaureate work).

In my limited experience, one of the things that adcom members look for is academic suitability for the rigors of medical school. Your 2.9/27 showing doesn't strike me as standing out in that area. As I mentioned before, some folks might have a problem with it, while others will take it in stride. One way to demonstrate your academic proficiency is to trend A's in several fulltime semesters of advanced undergraduate science classes. Besides increasing your GPA, this becomes evidence of your academic ability. You can point to how you got 35 credits of straight A's in hard science courses, or whatever. I was asked about my past academic problems and I threw that fact out there in response; there were no more questions after that. It seems like making this kind of academic trend can really do much to apease adcom members. This is directly addressing the question that they have.

You will notice that I made the assessment that I made for StringerBell because he had an excellent graduate work showing. In my opinion, it helped to demonstrate his true academic ability. However, unless I remember incorrectly, at least one school still had problems with his low science GPA even despite his great graduate work.

So in conclusion, if you think applying right now is what you want to do, then I wish you good luck and fortune. Apply EARLY and broadly. Get complete as soon as possible. You have a chance and I think you'll probably wow the schools with your great extracurricular work/activities. You'll probably interview well. Applying early will do much to swing things in your favor. If it isn't compelling for you to apply right this moment, then you could improve your academic standing by doing some post-baccalaureate work; this would be very high-yield improvement to your application.

Numbers aren't everything, however, so it's hard to say what will happen. Give your best shot. Good luck and remember to take everything I said here with a grain of salt. I am not an expert, just a helpful guide.
 
I'll give it a whirl:
I'm 27
BA in Cognitive Science from a competitive university
3.4 ugpa and 3.65 science (including postbac program with a 4.0 gpa)and a 29Q mcat apr 05, and 28R mcat apr 07 (i was attempting to raise my verbal from an 8, which stayed exactly the same and my ps dropped one point *sigh*)

Hi, lackoftalent,

You look like a fairly solid applicant. There's nothing much to say, except apply early and broadly. I did note that your MCAT dropped a little, but I don't think it'll be a big deal. You have a nice set of EC's; you have all the requiste experiences and they seem like strong experiences.

-good LORs from 3 sci profs and 3 MDs (though no DO, I worked with one for a summer in 2002, but MD letters would be stronger...bad idea?)

It shouldn't be a problem as long as you aren't applying to schools that require a letter from a DO. Make sure you have strong knowledge of the history and principles of osteopathic medicine. Know how to answer the question, "Why DO?" I had an MD letter and it was fine. Nobody inquired about it.

I'm thinking: CCOM, AZCOM, DMUCOM, Western, MSUCOM, TCOM (??? I'm not from Texas), KCOM, UMDNJ...any other suggestions?

Thanks for the input...I really appreciate it!:)

Make sure to check IS/OOS statistics to see if there is strong instate preference. Understand that you may have diminished chances at schools that have a strong instate preference if you are an OOS applicant. I made a guide for students on how to choose schools to apply to; take it with a grain of salt, but maybe it will be of benefit to you.

Good luck. Remember apply early.
 
You will notice that I made the assessment that I made for StringerBell because he had an excellent graduate work showing. In my opinion, it helped to demonstrate his true academic ability. However, unless I remember incorrectly, at least one school still had problems with his low science GPA even despite his great graduate work.

Hey, that's me!
Yes, I was denied an interview at Touro-CA due to my "Low undergraduate GPA in prerequisite courses." So even though I had grabbed A's in courses like Physiology, Biochemistry, and Genetics, they focused on my C's in Organic Chemistry and General Bio. I can't blame them for that - I made my bed and I have to lie in it. But that's just one instance. Another school noted that my GPA was "not great, but not bad" and that the depth and breadth of my science courses was impressive. So yes, a low uGPA may work against you, but you can only control what's in your power - raising your GPA in whatever way possible, and rocking the MCAT.
You could try to apply early and roll the dice, but if you plan to do so, I would suggest doing Post-Bac at the same time. That might help you in two ways, actually - helping your GPA for the next cycle, if necessary, or as a tool in this cycle's interviews. To wit, if you are questioned about your GPA, you answer as honestly as possible, and tell them that you are taking some advanced medical-scence-type courses that go above the prerequisites - and, of course, make sure you get A's in them. ;) Either way, post-bacc work will be helpful.
Just as a random side-note...I really busted my a$$ to raise my GPA in my grad program, and pulled a 3.9...I got one B. The funny part of that is the one B that I received was in Immunology and I had pneumonia during that semester. You can't make this stuff up. :)
 
The funny part of that is the one B that I received was in Immunology and I had pneumonia during that semester. You can't make this stuff up. :)

That just means you failed to learn enough from the pneumonia :). Sometimes life can help in school, though. As we were going through this group study on the hypertensive drug section in pharm, everyone kept asking how you know these drugs so well. Ummm...it's easy when you've had HTN for years--I've pretty much tried 'em all at one time or another :D .
 
Hi all! Although I am not a newbee to these forums... I was going to inquire specifically about my chances to get accepted into the LECOM Independent Study Pathway (ISP). I recieved my BS Honors in Microbiology from Idaho State University in December 2005. My AACOMAS uGPA 3.751 with a Biology GPA of 3.833, Inorganic Chem GPA of 3.907, Organic Chem GPA of 3.25, Physics GPA of 3.33, and Biochemistry GPA of 4.00. I also completed a 42-credit Master's of Public Health degree this May with a 4.0. I took the April 2006 MCAT and scored a 27 with an 11 in biology, 8 in both verbal and physical chemistry. I have served as president of the Pre-Health Student Association here on the ISU campus and as a presidency member in several other clubs. I have shadowed several doctors, mostly MD, but one DO who I recieved a letter from. I have done research in immunology and neurobiology for about 2.5 years which included several presentations at research conferences . I have also volunteered significant time at the Idaho State Veteran's Home. Since I have a family I am highly interested in the ISP program at LECOM. I also get very little out of group work, mainly because I get off track and become social during group time so the PBL pathway is not ideal. The LDP is not appealing because I think lectures are an absolute waste of time. I am the self motivating type, as demonstrated in my master's program. I feel that my chances to get into LECOM are good but I want to get responses from those individuals that are familiar with the ISP program at LECOM. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
 
Hi all! Although I am not a newbee to these forums... I was going to inquire specifically about my chances to get accepted into the LECOM Independent Study Pathway (ISP). I recieved my BS Honors in Microbiology from Idaho State University in December 2005. My AACOMAS uGPA 3.751 with a Biology GPA of 3.833, Inorganic Chem GPA of 3.907, Organic Chem GPA of 3.25, Physics GPA of 3.33, and Biochemistry GPA of 4.00. I also completed a 42-credit Master's of Public Health degree this May with a 4.0. I took the April 2006 MCAT and scored a 27 with an 11 in biology, 8 in both verbal and physical chemistry. I have served as president of the Pre-Health Student Association here on the ISU campus and as a presidency member in several other clubs. I have shadowed several doctors, mostly MD, but one DO who I recieved a letter from. I have done research in immunology and neurobiology for about 2.5 years which included several presentations at research conferences . I have also volunteered significant time at the Idaho State Veteran's Home. Since I have a family I am highly interested in the ISP program at LECOM. I also get very little out of group work, mainly because I get off track and become social during group time so the PBL pathway is not ideal. The LDP is not appealing because I think lectures are an absolute waste of time. I am the self motivating type, as demonstrated in my master's program. I feel that my chances to get into LECOM are good but I want to get responses from those individuals that are familiar with the ISP program at LECOM. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

I would try posting this in the osteopathic forum instead of the pre-osteo. Maybe a mod will move it for you. Here you will usually get premeds looking at posts and they will not give you much help unless they have studied the ISP. Even then I know you would rather have actual students in the program. Goodluck.
 
I would try posting this in the osteopathic forum instead of the pre-osteo....

Another good spot would be in the most recent class forum thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=333070&page=14

I know there aare some people there who have been accepted to the ISP program for next year. They might be able to help you as well. From my limited understanding, it's the most competitive program to get into. But, you appear to be a competitive applicant on paper.
 
I'm waitlisted right now-- should I submit another application for the 2008 year b4 this cycle ends? Ofcourse, I hope not to need the new app, but I don't want to wait too long either to apply for next year, just incase :( -- or is August too late. Thanks!
 
I'm waitlisted right now-- should I submit another application for the 2008 year b4 this cycle ends? Ofcourse, I hope not to need the new app, but I don't want to wait too long either to apply for next year, just incase :( -- or is August too late. Thanks!

I think most of us agree that you should apply asap. If you submit in august chances are it will take aacomas a good month to verify your app, making schools not see it until mid september we will say. And some schools do interview as early as july.

If I had to do this over again I would submit first day not kidding. It is my only regret in the process was taking my time (aka I submitted in early august).
 
I'm waitlisted right now-- should I submit another application for the 2008 year b4 this cycle ends? Ofcourse, I hope not to need the new app, but I don't want to wait too long either to apply for next year, just incase :( -- or is August too late. Thanks!

I feel for you. I am currently on the wait list myself for allopathic schools. If you are reapplying you want to make sure that you are doing something that changes your application from your first time. Many schools will ask for that on secondary applications. Improve what ever needs improving over that time (Retake the MCAT's, up your GPA, or add more extra curricular activities, etc...). If you are just going to reapply but your application has not changed much you'll just end up in the same place you are this year, unless your on the wait list because you applied late. Of course, I hope you gain acceptance this application cycle. The application process is a pain in the neck and no one wants to go through it again. I hope you gain acceptance to the school of your choice this application cycle.
Good Luck!!!:luck::luck::luck:
 
hey guys, great thread.

so hoping you can help me out :D

here's me :

22 years old, male.
science gpa : 3.09
overall gpa : 3.2
MCAT: 26S - 10 V, 8BIO, 8 P.

I know my science gpa is a bit weak - but it was even weaker this past cycle. I applied in late fall with a 2.85 science and 2.9 overall. ( i dont know what i was thinking )

basically, i worked my butt off to get straight A's both semesters, retake a course, and get my average to a 3.09 / 3.1 . i don't have ANY science courses in which i have less than a B- in . I'm retaking the MCAT this August, all i'm doing this summer is studying for it - so far my practice tests have gone up to the 29 range. ( i'm hopeful i can close in on the 29/30 range )

Extracurricular :

- 100's of D.O. shadowing hours, 50 + hours with M.D.'s + strong letters of rec from D.O', profs, and M.D's. ( i know the letters are "good" bc most of the writers let me look at them before they are mailed out ;) )
- member of over 10 campus groups, leadership roles in many, etc.
- worked in a G.I. lab, worked at Rush University Hospitals in radiology department, plus a few other jobs in things like retail and sales.
- hurricane relief abroad and in the u.s., worked with human development foundation in south asia ( 2 summers, 2 winters )
- founder and reigning member of local weight loss / healthiness group.


I've also got the typical hours in the E.R - all the way from high school through college graduation, tied with a few more shadowing experiences.

I'll be taking a mix of science undergrad and graduate courses at northwestern in the fall - and working in a lab part time as well.

p.s. - should i apply early with my current stats, or wait on the august MCAT??

thanks in advance !
:D
 
Hey everybody, can someone knowledgeable please tell me what kind of MCAT I would need to get into a DO program (NYCOM) with the following stats:

Overall GPA: 3.83
Science GPA (premed prereqs not including upper level): 3.75
All Upper Level Bio: 4.0
Extracurriculars:

350 hours of OR experience in a hospital
~1500 hours of volunteer EMT-B
2 years of oncogenic research with Bio dept chairman
2 years of working in a doctors office
President of Phi Sigma (Biology Honors)
President of Alpha Chi (Pre-med Honors)
Vice President of Alpha Chi (Junior Honor Society)
Member of Alpha Lambda Delta (Sophmore Honor Society)
1 year of Honors Mentoring (helping out freshman)
10 days of volunteering in Israel to help rebuild after the war with Hezbollah

Basically I'm not scoring as well as I would like on my practice MCATs...so what would I need to secure this DO spot?


Thanks for any responses!
 
hey guys, great thread.

so hoping you can help me out :D

here's me :

22 years old, male.
science gpa : 3.09
overall gpa : 3.2
MCAT: 26S - 10 V, 8BIO, 8 P.

I know my science gpa is a bit weak - but it was even weaker this past cycle. I applied in late fall with a 2.85 science and 2.9 overall. ( i dont know what i was thinking )

basically, i worked my butt off to get straight A's both semesters, retake a course, and get my average to a 3.09 / 3.1 . i don't have ANY science courses in which i have less than a B- in . I'm retaking the MCAT this August, all i'm doing this summer is studying for it - so far my practice tests have gone up to the 29 range. ( i'm hopeful i can close in on the 29/30 range )

Extracurricular :

- 100's of D.O. shadowing hours, 50 + hours with M.D.'s + strong letters of rec from D.O', profs, and M.D's. ( i know the letters are "good" bc most of the writers let me look at them before they are mailed out ;) )
- member of over 10 campus groups, leadership roles in many, etc.
- worked in a G.I. lab, worked at Rush University Hospitals in radiology department, plus a few other jobs in things like retail and sales.
- hurricane relief abroad and in the u.s., worked with human development foundation in south asia ( 2 summers, 2 winters )
- founder and reigning member of local weight loss / healthiness group.


I've also got the typical hours in the E.R - all the way from high school through college graduation, tied with a few more shadowing experiences.

I'll be taking a mix of science undergrad and graduate courses at northwestern in the fall - and working in a lab part time as well.

p.s. - should i apply early with my current stats, or wait on the august MCAT??

thanks in advance !
:D

Mediocre numbers. Apply early.
 
Hey everybody, can someone knowledgeable please tell me what kind of MCAT I would need to get into a DO program (NYCOM) with the following stats:

Overall GPA: 3.83
Science GPA (premed prereqs not including upper level): 3.75
All Upper Level Bio: 4.0
Extracurriculars:

350 hours of OR experience in a hospital
~1500 hours of volunteer EMT-B
2 years of oncogenic research with Bio dept chairman
2 years of working in a doctors office
President of Phi Sigma (Biology Honors)
President of Alpha Chi (Pre-med Honors)
Vice President of Alpha Chi (Junior Honor Society)
Member of Alpha Lambda Delta (Sophmore Honor Society)
1 year of Honors Mentoring (helping out freshman)
10 days of volunteering in Israel to help rebuild after the war with Hezbollah

Basically I'm not scoring as well as I would like on my practice MCATs...so what would I need to secure this DO spot?


Thanks for any responses!

Assuming everything above is true, you should be fine as long as you hit at least 8s or 9s on every section of the MCAT.

Dont worry about the practice MCAT. I never did better than a 12 on any practice MCAT I took, and my real test was more than twice that. No worries.
 
Assuming everything above is true, you should be fine as long as you hit at least 8s or 9s on every section of the MCAT.

Dont worry about the practice MCAT. I never did better than a 12 on any practice MCAT I took, and my real test was more than twice that. No worries.

Hey, thanks for the quick response. Yes, it's all true. Hard to believe I did all that stuff looking back at it but the time flew by.
 
hey guys, great thread.

so hoping you can help me out :D

here's me :

22 years old, male.
science gpa : 3.09
overall gpa : 3.2
MCAT: 26S - 10 V, 8BIO, 8 P.

I know my science gpa is a bit weak - but it was even weaker this past cycle. I applied in late fall with a 2.85 science and 2.9 overall. ( i dont know what i was thinking )

basically, i worked my butt off to get straight A's both semesters, retake a course, and get my average to a 3.09 / 3.1 . i don't have ANY science courses in which i have less than a B- in . I'm retaking the MCAT this August, all i'm doing this summer is studying for it - so far my practice tests have gone up to the 29 range. ( i'm hopeful i can close in on the 29/30 range )

Extracurricular :

- 100's of D.O. shadowing hours, 50 + hours with M.D.'s + strong letters of rec from D.O', profs, and M.D's. ( i know the letters are "good" bc most of the writers let me look at them before they are mailed out ;) )
- member of over 10 campus groups, leadership roles in many, etc.
- worked in a G.I. lab, worked at Rush University Hospitals in radiology department, plus a few other jobs in things like retail and sales.
- hurricane relief abroad and in the u.s., worked with human development foundation in south asia ( 2 summers, 2 winters )
- founder and reigning member of local weight loss / healthiness group.


I've also got the typical hours in the E.R - all the way from high school through college graduation, tied with a few more shadowing experiences.

I'll be taking a mix of science undergrad and graduate courses at northwestern in the fall - and working in a lab part time as well.

p.s. - should i apply early with my current stats, or wait on the august MCAT??

thanks in advance !
:D

I agree with JP, your numbers are so-so and your EC's look good so hopefully they can make up for numbers. Your MCAT is balanced so that is nice.

Only thing I would add to JP is apply broadly. Your gpa is lower so some schools might only skim you at first so apply to a bunch of schools to help your chances.

Goodluck.
 
I agree with JP, your numbers are so-so and your EC's look good so hopefully they can make up for numbers. Your MCAT is balanced so that is nice.

Only thing I would add to JP is apply broadly. Your gpa is lower so some schools might only skim you at first so apply to a bunch of schools to help your chances.

Goodluck.

thanks !
just one more thing...
i know my gpa is "eh" ...and my MCAT is right at the average. What do you guys think i will need to score this coming august to be a "solid"
applicant?
 
thanks !
just one more thing...
i know my gpa is "eh" ...and my MCAT is right at the average. What do you guys think i will need to score this coming august to be a "solid"
applicant?

I think your MCAT is OK and i would just go ahead and apply early and then update schools at the later date. Your MCAT is very balanced and you scored 10 on VR so you are in advantage because raising PS and BS is easy. It took me just few days of studying to raise my BS and PS 2 points so if you could shoot for 30+ you would be in a good standing. Though I have few friends who belived that their low GPA with their high MCAT acctually hurt them during apps cycle to DO schools. Unless you have some unique circumstances that resulted in your GPA being lower the adcoms seeing high MCAT score with lower GPAs thend to think that an applicant was just lazy in their undergad work...that is what one of my freinds believed happened to him.
But it is better to apply early. If i were you i'd just apply and then update schools with your new score.
Did you start studying yet? Any FLs?
 
I think your MCAT is OK and i would just go ahead and apply early and then update schools at the later date. Your MCAT is very balanced and you scored 10 on VR so you are in advantage because raising PS and BS is easy. It took me just few days of studying to raise my BS and PS 2 points so if you could shoot for 30+ you would be in a good standing. Though I have few friends who belived that their low GPA with their high MCAT acctually hurt them during apps cycle to DO schools. Unless you have some unique circumstances that resulted in your GPA being lower the adcoms seeing high MCAT score with lower GPAs thend to think that an applicant was just lazy in their undergad work...that is what one of my freinds believed happened to him.
But it is better to apply early. If i were you i'd just apply and then update schools with your new score.
Did you start studying yet? Any FLs?


hey, thanks for the feedback..

i wish i had some "unique" circumstances to my gpa - but I WAS just a bit lazy in undergrad....just pretty much all B's in science courses with A's my senior year. i had a c or two before, but i retook those classes to improve my gpa. I dont know what an FL is...:D , but i have been studying for the past few weeks...and will continue studying the next two months non stop....i'm hoping i can break the 30 barrier!!

i DO know some people who got accepted with my stats last year, and to schools that i would love to go to - but it's hard to tell myself "oh, well he got in with a 3.1 and a 25...so i should too" ... so i'm kinda freakin out =)
 
hey, thanks for the feedback..

i wish i had some "unique" circumstances to my gpa - but I WAS just a bit lazy in undergrad....just pretty much all B's in science courses with A's my senior year. i had a c or two before, but i retook those classes to improve my gpa. I dont know what an FL is...:D , but i have been studying for the past few weeks...and will continue studying the next two months non stop....i'm hoping i can break the 30 barrier!!

i DO know some people who got accepted with my stats last year, and to schools that i would love to go to - but it's hard to tell myself "oh, well he got in with a 3.1 and a 25...so i should too" ... so i'm kinda freakin out =)

Yeah, again I agree with Kicia. You can definitely get in with a 26. I would only retake if you are certain you can increase your score. I mean remember if you retake and do worse you put yourself in a very hard situation. However, if you get a more solid score, say 10s across I think you become a more SOLID applicant. Your MCAT could offset your gpa enough to help you a lot. Again I am not on a committee so I do not know for certain but this is my best guess.

Bottomline: If your practices are consistantly 30 or above I would retake, if not I would just apply very early and broadly and I think you will get in.

Goodluck.
 
Yeah, again I agree with Kicia. You can definitely get in with a 26. I would only retake if you are certain you can increase your score. I mean remember if you retake and do worse you put yourself in a very hard situation. However, if you get a more solid score, say 10s across I think you become a more SOLID applicant. Your MCAT could offset your gpa enough to help you a lot. Again I am not on a committee so I do not know for certain but this is my best guess.

Bottomline: If your practices are consistantly 30 or above I would retake, if not I would just apply very early and broadly and I think you will get in.

Goodluck.


thanks again!

i've been scoring in the 29 range on my mcat practice tests. i will definitely apply in june / july before my new mcat, and update schools with my august scores. thanks everyone for the help ! :)
 
Yeah, again I agree with Kicia. You can definitely get in with a 26. I would only retake if you are certain you can increase your score. I mean remember if you retake and do worse you put yourself in a very hard situation. However, if you get a more solid score, say 10s across I think you become a more SOLID applicant. Your MCAT could offset your gpa enough to help you a lot. Again I am not on a committee so I do not know for certain but this is my best guess.

Bottomline: If your practices are consistantly 30 or above I would retake, if not I would just apply very early and broadly and I think you will get in.

Goodluck.

yep i agree. There is always a possibility to shoot yourself in the foot. Taht is why i think applying early would be better. Schools will see you are scheduled for retake but may still invite you for interview or give you an acceptance before they see your scores so it's a win win situation...and FL is a full lenght exam:D
p.s I have nearly same stats as you (taking MCAT in 2 days and hoping for 25/26...i would kill for your VR score :laugh:)... best of luck to you :)
 
yep i agree. There is always a possibility to shoot yourself in the foot. Taht is why i think applying early would be better. Schools will see you are scheduled for retake but may still invite you for interview or give you an acceptance before they see your scores so it's a win win situation...and FL is a full lenght exam:D
p.s I have nearly same stats as you (taking MCAT in 2 days and hoping for 25/26...i would kill for your VR score :laugh:)... best of luck to you :)

Goodluck Kicia I have faith you will beat a 26, just remember to try and relax but be confident in your answers and move along quickly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top