What are my dubious chances of getting into a DO school thread ...

[IUgrad]

Great thread! Thanks for giving us an opportunity to get feedback.

I really appreciate your thoughts on my stats:

Overall GPA: 3.49 (includes 3.8 post-bac)
BCPM GPA: 3.73

ECsjust got started a couple years ago - no research)
-Big Brothers/Big Sisters 2 years
-Hospice 2 years
-Associate instructor 1 semester
-Doctor shadowing 2 summers
-Gen chem/org chem tutor for 2 semesters

I am a non-trad student (28 yo) with a dual BA/BS in nonscience subjects. I had a 3.1 GPA when I graduated and raised it to a 3.49 with my post-bac courses, so I do have some grade improvement trends, which I'm hoping will help.

Two questions:
1) I am 1 class away from a BA in chemistry from my prereq courses - would it be worthwhile from an admissions standpoint to take this class and get the degree? It might mean that I would have to take another job because my current job is not in the same city where the class is offered.

2) I am set to take the MCAT May 31st and I am consistently scoring in the mid-20's. The highest I got on a AAMC practice test was 29. Should I wait until July 13th to take the test where I can have longer to study (and might improve, especially on bio which is mostly memorization and currently my worst subject) or take it now and apply with a mid-20 score?

The schools I am considering are:
CCOM
DMU-COM
MSU-COM
NSU-COM
OSUCOM
PCOM
TUCOM-NV
UMDNJ-SOM
UNECOM
UNTHSC/TCOM

I appreciate anyone's advice. Thanks!

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[supernareg]

how bout mine??

3.1 overall, 3.3 science.... huge upward trend... (2.5 my 1st 2 yrs and 3.7 this last year)

EC = ambulace driver 8 months, ER tech a 1.6 years, CPR / lifeguard instructor, award for reviving non breathing patron, dean's list 2006, my personal statement is good, and good LORs.

i;ll be aplying to all DO schools

edit: mcat on july 24th. would i get in with a 22? 24? 26? 28?

 

[MaximusD]

oh, it is acctually the other way around i am not good enough for PCOM

Apply anyway... i would like to meet you @ the interview!

 

[MaximusD]

how bout mine??

3.1 overall, 3.3 science.... huge upward trend... (2.5 my 1st 2 yrs and 3.7 this last year)

EC = ambulace driver 8 months, ER tech a 1.6 years, CPR / lifeguard instructor, award for reviving non breathing patron, dean's list 2006, my personal statement is good, and good LORs.

i;ll be aplying to all DO schools

edit: mcat on july 24th. would i get in with a 22? 24? 26? 28?

overall GPA is a bit low but science looks good... You're going to want a 27+ MCAT for a competitive shot and shoot for a 30 for the better DO schools. The positive trend is great, although 2.5 was maybe too low that first year. Apply broadly and get a GOOD letter of rec from a DO.

 

[simbalimba]

How are my stats?

overall gpa= 3.5
science gpa=3.5
mcat=will be taking in june (lets say i get a 28)


The thing is that I have not taken orgo 2 and will be taking it later this summer (it will finish by the beginning of august). Have good, but not great LORS, solid EC's. Which schools would be good places for me, btw I'm from Chicago if that matters at all? Thank you all

 

[simbalimba]

Sorry I forgot to list the schools I am considering:

AZCOM
CCOM
PCOM
TUCOM-CA
TUCOM-NV
DMU
TOURO
UMDNJ
NYCOM
PCOM-GA
KCUMB
UNECOM
OSU-COM


Thanks

 

[Animus]

Great thread! Thanks for giving us an opportunity to get feedback.

I really appreciate your thoughts on my stats:

Overall GPA: 3.49 (includes 3.8 post-bac)
BCPM GPA: 3.73

ECsjust got started a couple years ago - no research)
-Big Brothers/Big Sisters 2 years
-Hospice 2 years
-Associate instructor 1 semester
-Doctor shadowing 2 summers
-Gen chem/org chem tutor for 2 semesters

I am a non-trad student (28 yo) with a dual BA/BS in nonscience subjects. I had a 3.1 GPA when I graduated and raised it to a 3.49 with my post-bac courses, so I do have some grade improvement trends, which I'm hoping will help.

Two questions:
1) I am 1 class away from a BA in chemistry from my prereq courses - would it be worthwhile from an admissions standpoint to take this class and get the degree? It might mean that I would have to take another job because my current job is not in the same city where the class is offered.

2) I am set to take the MCAT May 31st and I am consistently scoring in the mid-20's. The highest I got on a AAMC practice test was 29. Should I wait until July 13th to take the test where I can have longer to study (and might improve, especially on bio which is mostly memorization and currently my worst subject) or take it now and apply with a mid-20 score?

The schools I am considering are:
CCOM
DMU-COM
MSU-COM
NSU-COM
OSUCOM
PCOM
TUCOM-NV
UMDNJ-SOM
UNECOM
UNTHSC/TCOM

I appreciate anyone's advice. Thanks!

Dear IUgrad,
Your upward trend into post-bacc is def a plus, your EC's look good. Were the doc's you shadowed DO's? If not it is in your best interest to get a DO to follow and write you a good rec. I do not know for certain but there is some sort of idea out there that Osteopathic schools like older/non-trad students. I am one and had a similar gpa increase and good EC's like you do. I got a 28 on the MCAT and I think it is in your best interest to get high 20's at least. If you want a very good chance of interviews you need that MCAT score.

1) I do not believe having more than one degree really makes a huge difference for getting into medical school. I doubt it really does, but have no real experience with this so I cannot say.
2) I would wait if you think you can pull out around a 30 or better. Mid 20s is definitely no guarantee of getting you anwhere you want the higher score to know you will get a good number of interviews.

Apply early, I think you have a great chance and study hard for that MCAT. Goodluck.

 

[Animus]

How are my stats?

overall gpa= 3.5
science gpa=3.5
mcat=will be taking in june (lets say i get a 28)


The thing is that I have not taken orgo 2 and will be taking it later this summer (it will finish by the beginning of august). Have good, but not great LORS, solid EC's. Which schools would be good places for me, btw I'm from Chicago if that matters at all? Thank you all

Your gpa is decent and if you have good LOR's and EC's like you say you will be fine. Study hard for the MCAT, 28 is a good score, but try for 30+ spend that extra time studying and hope it pays off. I do not know that where you live gives you an advantage anywhere, but I would guess midwest schools will give you an advantage, apply to all of them.

As always apply early, get that stuff in you have a better chance. Things look good so far, buckle down and do well on the MCAT you will be fine. Goodluck.

 

[spicedmanna]

Great thread! Thanks for giving us an opportunity to get feedback.

Hi, IUgrad,

You are welcome. I'm glad we can be of assistance. Now onto your questions...

I really appreciate your thoughts on my stats:

Overall GPA: 3.49 (includes 3.8 post-bac)
BCPM GPA: 3.73

ECs: (just got started a couple years ago - no research)
-Big Brothers/Big Sisters 2 years
-Hospice 2 years
-Associate instructor 1 semester
-Doctor shadowing 2 summers
-Gen chem/org chem tutor for 2 semesters

Your stats seem fine to me; I don't notice any red-flags. I think you are competitive for most osteopathic schools. It sounds like you have some clinical experience and have done volunteer/community service work; excellent. Don't worry about the lack of research experience; it's only really necessary if you are applying to DO/PhD programs, otherwise it will just be a bonus. There isn't much else I can say; you look good, so far. Study hard and intelligently for the MCAT and rock it. Apply broadly and early.

It may be of benefit to shadow an osteopathic physician and get a letter of recommendation (LOR) from one. Most DO schools require a letter from a physician and prefer one from a DO, but many are also okay with a letter from an MD. There are other requirements for LORs in addition to the physician letter, generally including letter(s) from science faculty and from a premedical committee/advisor, although individual requirements may vary. It would be wise to check the AACOM Guidebook on Osteopathic Medical Schools to see the individual requirements.

I am a non-trad student (28 yo) with a dual BA/BS in nonscience subjects. I had a 3.1 GPA when I graduated and raised it to a 3.49 with my post-bac courses, so I do have some grade improvement trends, which I'm hoping will help.

I'm a fellow non-trad, too. I'm entering medical school at 34.

Yup, medical school admissions committees do tend to look at trends. It will most certainly be of benefit to have an upward trend.

Two questions:
1) I am 1 class away from a BA in chemistry from my prereq courses - would it be worthwhile from an admissions standpoint to take this class and get the degree? It might mean that I would have to take another job because my current job is not in the same city where the class is offered.

I don't think it will be of significant benefit. You already have two bachelor's degrees. Having a third won't give you any additional edge, in my opinion. I wouldn't waste my time trying to obtain it.

2) I am set to take the MCAT May 31st and I am consistently scoring in the mid-20's. The highest I got on a AAMC practice test was 29. Should I wait until July 13th to take the test where I can have longer to study (and might improve, especially on bio which is mostly memorization and currently my worst subject) or take it now and apply with a mid-20 score?

If you think you can improve significantly, then I say wait until July, when you are feeling at your best to take it. While the average score for a matriculant is around a 25, you really want to shoot for the upper twenties, or better, for the best chances and options. The MCAT is a test you really only want to take once; take it when you are satisfied with your preparation, but also be cognizant of the application time line. Having a solid MCAT score is very important. Follow your gut instinct on this, but if I'm reading you correctly, it sounds like you could benefit from the additional time. You can apply without having taken your MCAT; just update AACOMAS when your scores are in. If you don't feel confident about your scores, then you can hold off on applying. However, it sounds like you are likely to score at least in the average range, so I'd go ahead and apply early, but take the MCAT in July. Again, take my advice with a grain of salt and follow your gut feeling; you know yourself best.

The schools I am considering are:
CCOM
DMU-COM
MSU-COM
NSU-COM
OSUCOM
PCOM
TUCOM-NV
UMDNJ-SOM
UNECOM
UNTHSC/TCOM

These look good to me. However, keep in mind that some of these schools have a strong instate preference, so you may be at a disadvantage when applying to them. I say apply more broadly. Take a look at my guide on choosing schools to apply to.

Good luck!!!

 

[Animus]

how bout mine??

3.1 overall, 3.3 science.... huge upward trend... (2.5 my 1st 2 yrs and 3.7 this last year)

EC = ambulace driver 8 months, ER tech a 1.6 years, CPR / lifeguard instructor, award for reviving non breathing patron, dean's list 2006, my personal statement is good, and good LORs.

i;ll be aplying to all DO schools

edit: mcat on july 24th. would i get in with a 22? 24? 26? 28?

I agree with Max, you need a high MCAT to balance out your gpa. Get a 30+.

 

[dr.kicia]

Apply anyway... i would like to meet you @ the interview!

well i would love that too but with 3.2 GPA and probobly a low MCAT (according to my 3 practice tests i took so far...one word VERBAL ...7/8/8, then 9/7/10 and today 9/6/10 ) I would probobly have even problems with getting a PCOM secondary if any of the schools at all

i so hate being an ESL person...damn verbal

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

This is a great thread


Here are my stats

UG GPA: 3.67
Science GPA: 3.60
MCAT: 9v 10p 13b M total: 32M

EC's:
-ER Volunteer (150 hrs)
-Cardiac intensive care volunteer (this summer, will get about 100 hrs)
-Founder and president of an intercollegiate ski team (2 years)- great leadership experience
-shadowed 3 physicians (pathologist, radiologist, anenths ~ 20 hrs)
-some other things I cant think of

Im a michigan resident, and these are some of the schools i'm applying too

MSUCOM
CCOM
NSU
PCOM?

What are my chances? Im worried about the low verbal and writing score on my MCAT

 

[supernareg]

u should apply to MD too, u might have a shot. freakinhugeMD

 

[spicedmanna]

This is a great thread


Here are my stats

UG GPA: 3.67
Science GPA: 3.60
MCAT: 9v 10p 13b M total: 32M

EC's:
-ER Volunteer (150 hrs)
-Cardiac intensive care volunteer (this summer, will get about 100 hrs)
-Founder and president of an intercollegiate ski team (2 years)- great leadership experience
-shadowed 3 physicians (pathologist, radiologist, anenths ~ 20 hrs)
-some other things I cant think of

Im a michigan resident, and these are some of the schools i'm applying too

MSUCOM
CCOM
NSU
PCOM?

What are my chances? Im worried about the low verbal and writing score on my MCAT

Hi, FrickenhugeMD,

I agree with supernareg, you are competitive for both allopathic and osteopathic medical schools. Consider applying to at least your allopathic state schools in addition to osteopathic medical schools.

Your MCAT score and GPA are well-above average for an osteopathic matriculant, and pretty much on par for an allopathic matriculant. You have all the requisite EC's. I think you are an all around solid applicant. If you apply broadly and early, you'll probably fair quite well. Don't worry about your writing score; it's not really that important. Just make sure you write good essays, and you'll be solid. Your VR score is okay; it won't, to my knowledge, raise any red-flags.

Although it isn't necessary, it might benefit you to shadow an osteopathic physician and get a letter from one. Most DO schools require a letter from a physician, in which they prefer one from a DO, but will accept letters from an MD, also. There are some schools that will only accept a letter from a DO. Check out the AACOM guidebook for details on LORs. I applied with a very strong MD letter and didn't apply to any DO schools that only accepted DO letters and I did fine. So, it's up to you what you want to do. Make sure, however, to brush up on the history and principles of osteopathic medicine. Know how to answer, "Why DO?" in addition to "Why medicine?"

As to where else to apply, that's a personal thing. Your stats make you competitive for just about all of the osteopathic medical school and a fair amount of allopathic schools as well. Do some research, read the MSAR and check out the AACOM guidebook mentioned above. Also, check out my own guide.

I wish you luck. Remember to apply EARLY and broadly.

 

[MRa2z]

this is a great thread and all-

but it seems like everyone is overshooting their advice quite a bit. someone with a 3.1 science and 3.3 overall definitely does NOT need a 30 MCAT to be competitive. if they apply early they should get a few interviews with an average MCAT, and maybe an acceptance or two.

i always thought that a 3.0 or higher overall and science tied with a 24+ MCAT was enough for a "shot" at a wide range of schools, given an early application and winning personality + ec's?

but then again, its 1 am and maybe i'm delerious.

 

[spicedmanna]

this is a great thread and all-

but it seems like everyone is overshooting their advice quite a bit. someone with a 3.1 science and 3.3 overall definitely does NOT need a 30 MCAT to be competitive. if they apply early they should get a few interviews with an average MCAT, and maybe an acceptance or two.

I dont get the tendency of people here to say stuff like "22 is a horrible score!" and "you need a 30+ to get in" to people with 3.1 to 3.3 gpa's.
from my experiences, a gpa above a 3.0 overall / science and MCAT above the 24 mark holds a "shot" for anyone applying early and BROADLY.

but then again, its 1 am and maybe i'm delerious.

Hey, MRa2z,

I can't speak for everyone here, but I think that my advice is grounded on the notion that it is better to have more options and choices available when applying, and I try to assist folks in creating the most optimal application experience. If you can create that kind of experience for yourself, then don't you think it's worth considering? If I were going to spend this much time, effort, and money planning out what will turn out to my life's career, you bet I'd want to do everything I could to make it go the way that I want it. I like to have choices, and I don't want to have to settle. You don't walk into the Olympics thinking that adequate preparation is going to get you the gold. It might happen sometimes that you get lucky or unlucky, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet on the guy or gal that was still around practicing when everyone else went home for the day. Anyway, I digress.

Back to the point, I think you might be seeing something here that I haven't been projecting. I don't think I've ever insinuated in this thread that it is necessary to score well above the mean for a matriculant. What I have suggested is that it isn't optimal to be adequate, unless that is really the best that one can do. I'm real with folks about their real chances as they are and then I suggest reasonable measures that I think will make their application more optimal. Also, I tend to advise folks to aim high for the MCAT. A better score is going to help you; it may not make up for an inadequacy elsewhere in your application, but it's definitely going to work in your favor. Besides, if you happen to have a bad day, hopefully with the extra preparation, your performance will still be better than your average days.

The average person has an average chance; I think we agree on that and I say as much in my posts by citing the averages for the matriculants. However, I'd rather advise people to be the standouts and not have to rely on chance. You want to back up all of your talk with strong evidence in your favor. We are entering an evidenced-based practice; you want to prove to those folks who are doing the screening that you are undoubtedly the person they are looking for to fill their class.

I've definitely stepped onto some sort of soap box:

Thanks for indulging me.

 

[StringerBell]

but it seems like everyone is overshooting their advice quite a bit. someone with a 3.1 science and 3.3 overall definitely does NOT need a 30 MCAT to be competitive.

What I have suggested is that it isn't optimal to be adequate, unless that is really the best that one can do.

While it is entirely possible, and maybe even common to be accepted with a 3.3/3.1/27 or thereabouts, I have to agree with what Spicedmanna has suggested. I wouldn't want to foster a situation in which an applicant says "Well, I got my 3.3 and my 27! Why can't I get in anywhere? It's not fair!" I think we should all set the bar higher for ourselves - if we don't, we're putting ourselves at a disadvantage to those who do.

if they apply early they should get a few interviews with an average MCAT, and maybe an acceptance or two.

Again, I'm not going to argue against you, because this is "probably" true. But keep in mind that the goal isn't to "maybe" get an acceptance. The goal at this point is to get an acceptance, preferrably at school that an applicant thinks is a good fit for them. A lot of applicants have been posting "what do I need to do/get/etc.?" It is my opinion that a lot of applicants know what they need to do, and they just need a little encouragement to get out and do it.

 

[dr.kicia]

the only way to know that someone's stats are good enough to get in to med school is to apply...no one and i mean NO ONE here can say guy X or Z has better chances. The numbers alone, especially with DO schools are a poor indicator of someones chances. And how much can you find out about an applicant from the 5 point list they give out here? For instance how can one really say they have great LORs if everyone waves their right to read over them? How can one be sure if someone has a killer ps if the only indication of it is their own word?
Besides SDN is not a representative sample of the applicant pool. There is 150-200 spots at each school...go to the class threads and count how many ppl post there...i always take everything here with a grain of salt because otherwise i would be scared to apply alltogether.

But if you just use some logic and see what the average stats for each DO schools are the MCAT of 24 and 3.3 GPA...and that means that some ppl who were accepted had even lower then that. I say to all the future applicants don't take everything here as a total and final word...just apply and see for yourself. The wost thing that can happen is they say no...which if you don't apply at all puts you in the same situation...yes you will loose few hundred bucks when you apply (few weeks of not going out) and maybe a little bit of time...but at the end you will have a CHANCE to get in. I like to compare this to complaning that you never won lottery but then you also never bought a ticket.
to me that it would be stupid not to take a chance...especially if you fit within the averages and have something unique to your apps...
just my 2 cents.

Hey, MRa2z,

I can't speak for everyone here, but I think that my advice is grounded on the notion that it is better to have more options and choices available when applying, and I try to assist folks in creating the most optimal application experience. If you can create that kind of experience for yourself, then don't you think it's worth considering? If I were going to spend this much time, effort, and money planning out what will turn out to my life's career, you bet I'd want to do everything I could to make it go the way that I want it. I like to have choices, and I don't want to have to settle. You don't walk into the Olympics thinking that adequate preparation is going to get you the gold. It might happen sometimes that you get lucky or unlucky, but if I were a betting man, I'd bet on the guy or gal that was still around practicing when everyone else went home for the day. Anyway, I digress.

Back to the point, I think you might be seeing something here that I haven't been projecting. I don't think I've ever insinuated in this thread that it is necessary to score well above the mean for a matriculant. What I have suggested is that it isn't optimal to be adequate, unless that is really the best that one can do. I'm real with folks about their real chances as they are and then I suggest reasonable measures that I think will make their application more optimal. Also, I tend to advise folks to aim high for the MCAT. A better score is going to help you; it may not make up for an inadequacy elsewhere in your application, but it's definitely going to work in your favor. Besides, if you happen to have a bad day, hopefully with the extra preparation, your performance will still be better than your average days.

The average person has an average chance; I think we agree on that and I say as much in my posts by citing the averages for the matriculants. However, I'd rather advise people to be the standouts and not have to rely on chance. You want to back up all of your talk with strong evidence in your favor. We are entering an evidenced-based practice; you want to prove to those folks who are doing the screening that you are undoubtedly the person they are looking for to fill their class.

I've definitely stepped onto some sort of soap box:

Thanks for indulging me.

 

[dr.kicia]

Again, I'm not going to argue against you, because this is "probably" true. But keep in mind that the goal isn't to "maybe" get an acceptance. The goal at this point is to get an acceptance, preferrably at school that an applicant thinks is a good fit for them

it would be really awsome if this system worked that way...but unfortunately it doesn't. One of my friends applied to 22 schools with GPA 3.98 and 33 MCAT (i may add amazing ECs, 4 years of volunteering, research and all that good stuff). He was offered 1 interview...1! Most schools rejected him even before the secondary...i bet if he was the OP asking "what are my chances" everyone would have said amazing...but yet there was something that ADCOMs didn't like about him...that is why the only way to find out is to APPLY!
and while the goal is to get accepted, wating 2 years just so I could bump my GPA from 3.3 to 3.4 or retaking my MCAT so i can get a 29 istead of 27 doesn't really makes much sense where all i want is to be a doctor...does it?
Because by the time i apply again:
1)the applicant pool will be more competetive
2)my 3.4 will be as much of an average as 3.3 was 2 years ealier
3)my friend who didn't wait will be taking their boards already
4)i will be very unhappy with my life and feel like i wasted 2 years of my life just to stand at the same spot i did before.
just my 2 cents

 

[Animus]

the only way to know that someone's stats are good enough to get in to med school is to apply...no one and i mean NO ONE here can say guy X or Z has better chances. The numbers alone, especially with DO schools are a poor indicator of someones chances. And how much can you find out about an applicant from the 5 point list they give out here? For instance how can one really say they have great LORs if everyone waves their right to read over them? How can one be sure if someone has a killer ps if the only indication of it is their own word?
Besides SDN is not a representative sample of the applicant pool. There is 150-200 spots at each school...go to the class threads and count how many ppl post there...i always take everything here with a grain of salt because otherwise i would be scared to apply alltogether.

But if you just use some logic and see what the average stats for each DO schools are the MCAT of 24 and 3.3 GPA...and that means that some ppl who were accepted had even lower then that. I say to all the future applicants don't take everything here as a total and final word...just apply and see for yourself. The wost thing that can happen is they say no...which if you don't apply at all puts you in the same situation...yes you will loose few hundred bucks when you apply (few weeks of not going out) and maybe a little bit of time...but at the end you will have a CHANCE to get in. I like to compare this to complaning that you never won lottery but then you also never bought a ticket.
to me that it would be stupid not to take a chance...especially if you fit within the averages and have something unique to your apps...
just my 2 cents.

Not sure what you are trying to say here but I do not know how you can say numbers alone do not mean anything. Sure you have one or two examples of people getting no interviews with great numbers but NUMBERS are all you have when applying. Until an interview they only look at the numbers, EC's and your PS. Perhaps your friends PS had lots of spelling errors? or came off as over-confident? There can be a lot of reasons people can be rejected by ADCOMs that is not the point of this thread. What Spiced and I are trying to do is take what we have known from seeing others, like us, apply with the numbers they had. Add in the averages and try and help people by giving them their best shot.

It is certainly not in anyones interest for us to tell them to be average or shoot for just a 25 MCAT. If you can boost the numbers, AND you have EC's, AND your PS is well written, well then you should have a chance.

We are by no means the final authority on applying I think everyone here knows that. We are giving advice based on what we know from going through this process and reading about others who have done the same. You do not like what we say? Go ahead and apply. In almost every response I give I let the person know that what I am telling them is giving them a decent or better shot. I make no guarantees and I never say "this is your only chance - - get a 30 or else", I just want people to try and strive to be better than average so their chances are also (hopefully) better than average.

 

[IUgrad]

Thanks for the great replies, Spicedmanna and Animus!! Your information was very helpful to me.

Spicedmanna, please forgive my ignorance on this, but is there some place to find out which schools have a strong instate preference so I don't waste my time? On the AACOM website of schools, I haven't come across anything so far...

Also, do you think that having ties to the area is helpful in applying, i.e., my fiancé is from Boston so UNE is my first choice because we want to live out East near his family. Would it help to emphasize that to them somehow, like in my PS or something? Or, do you think I'm just wasting my time?

I really appreciate your help!!

 

[Animus]

Thanks for the great replies, Spicedmanna and Animus!! Your information was very helpful to me.

Spicedmanna, please forgive my ignorance on this, but is there some place to find out which schools have a strong instate preference so I don't waste my time? On the AACOM website of schools, I haven't come across anything so far...

Also, do you think that having ties to the area is helpful in applying, i.e., my fiancé is from Boston so UNE is my first choice because we want to live out East near his family. Would it help to emphasize that to them somehow, like in my PS or something? Or, do you think I'm just wasting my time?

I really appreciate your help!!

http://aacom.org/data/annualreport/index.html

The annual report has all of the statistical information you could ever need.
Edit: Page 20 has instate/out of state stuff.

I had sort of a similar situation, my gf and I both applied to many schools. I do not think it can hurt showing extra interest in a school based on its location and for personal reasons. You might be taking a bit of a risk because I do not know that all schools look at relationships as a great reason for wanting to be in a certain area. However, if it is a school that does not take many oos'ers and you have no real reason for going there I would use everything in my arsenal to try and convince them. You really have nothing to lose if they rarely take people from out of the area and you need reasons for them to think you really want to attend.

 

[dr.kicia]

Not sure what you are trying to say here but I do not know how you can say numbers alone do not mean anything. Sure you have one or two examples of people getting no interviews with great numbers but NUMBERS are all you have when applying. Until an interview they only look at the numbers, EC's and your PS. Perhaps your friends PS had lots of spelling errors? or came off as over-confident? There can be a lot of reasons people can be rejected by ADCOMs that is not the point of this thread. What Spiced and I are trying to do is take what we have known from seeing others, like us, apply with the numbers they had. Add in the averages and try and help people by giving them their best shot.

It is certainly not in anyones interest for us to tell them to be average or shoot for just a 25 MCAT. If you can boost the numbers, AND you have EC's, AND your PS is well written, well then you should have a chance.

We are by no means the final authority on applying I think everyone here knows that. We are giving advice based on what we know from going through this process and reading about others who have done the same. You do not like what we say? Go ahead and apply. In almost every response I give I let the person know that what I am telling them is giving them a decent or better shot. I make no guarantees and I never say "this is your only chance - - get a 30 or else", I just want people to try and strive to be better than average so their chances are also (hopefully) better than average.

what i was trying to say is that while improving your application, especially after you graduated takes years...and as we all know DO schools become more and more competetive each year...an applicant with the average stats may acctually shoot themselves in a foot while trying to bring their GPA few points by spening $$$$ and time for some post bac. or masters program.

Now if you have a GPA of 2.9 or are just a sophmore in college- that is a different story but still...all of us here have no clue about the reasoning of ADCOMs so why limiting you chances and holding off with something that is all you really want to do in your life?

 

[Animus]

what i was trying to say is that while improving your application, especially after you graduated takes years...and as we all know DO schools become more and more competetive each year...an applicant with the average stats may acctually shoot themselves in a foot while trying to bring their GPA few points by spening $$$$ and time for some post bac. or masters program.

Now if you have a GPA of 2.9 or are just a sophmore in college- that is a different story but still...all of us here have no clue about the reasoning of ADCOMs so why limiting you chances and holding off with something that is all you really want to do in your life?

Yes but you are wasting money applying to 20 schools with a 2.9 and having (statistically) a bad chance of getting in. Sure you have a chance, but what if it takes 3 application cycles? Then the money may have been worth it 3 years ago for a decent to good shot the year after...

 

[dr.kicia]

Yes but you are wasting money applying to 20 schools with a 2.9 and having (statistically) a bad chance of getting in. Sure you have a chance, but what if it takes 3 application cycles? Then the money may have been worth it 3 years ago for a decent to good shot the year after...

you are not getting what i am trying to say...i was always refering to the stats that an average accepted applicant has...2.9 is definetly not average...not even in Caribbean schools.
Besides according to aacom.org even if you applied to all 25 schools your primaries would cost $805...secondaries are anywhere between 50-100 bucks so taking the average it would be around 2000. I doubt any post bacc. or masters would cost taht even per semester and even in the state university.
of couse this is taking things to extremes, most ppl will apply to 6-8 schools which will be 1/3 of the above cost.

 

[Animus]

you are not getting what i am trying to say...i was always refering to the stats that an average accepted applicant has...2.9 is definetly not average...not even in Caribbean schools.
Besides according to aacom.org even if you applied to all 25 schools your primaries would cost $805...secondaries are anywhere between 50-100 bucks so taking the average it would be around 2000. I doubt any post bacc. or masters would cost taht even per semester and even in the state university.
of couse this is taking things to extremes, most ppl will apply to 6-8 schools which will be 1/3 of the above cost.

I do get what you are saying, the point Spiced and I are trying to make is that we are trying to help people be better than average. As I said before we havent ever told anyone, dont you dare apply with average stats, we are trying to give them their best chance. Why shoot for average ever? Not to mention I think only 1/2 of all applicants even get spots, it is probably worse now do to increasing numbers of apps every year.

Most people with low gpas have to apply broadly to better their chances to get in ANYWHERE. This is more money and with average stats or lower than average you are only pulling around 50% chance or so. It may just be a personal preference but I would waste the money, take the classes, inc gpa and have a better than average chance vs not getting in with average stats for 2 or 3 years of "wasted" time.

This may just be me though.

 

[dr.kicia]

I do get what you are saying, the point Spiced and I are trying to make is that we are trying to help people be better than average. As I said before we havent ever told anyone, dont you dare apply with average stats, we are trying to give them their best chance. Why shoot for average ever? Not to mention I think only 1/2 of all applicants even get spots, it is probably worse now do to increasing numbers of apps every year.

Most people with low gpas have to apply broadly to better their chances to get in ANYWHERE. This is more money and with average stats or lower than average you are only pulling around 50% chance or so. It may just be a personal preference but I would waste the money, take the classes, inc gpa and have a better than average chance vs not getting in with average stats for 2 or 3 years of "wasted" time.

This may just be me though.

chances are always 50/50...even if you have a high GPA..you can only get in or be rejected there is no third alternative. And besides how do you know that someone with 3.7 have 75% more chance vs somebody with 3.3? For instance doctormom got in with 3.2 and 23 MCAT...she had 3 interview offers out of few schools she applied to...yeah she may be an exception but i know 2 other ppl on these boards who got in with nearly same stats to few schools, while we all read about ppl with higher stats not getting in even to DO programs. I also did my homework and emailed few schools i was interested in with questions about stats etc. So i have a pretty good idea but it's all very subjective...we all don't know unless we apply.
And besides if you apply and even when you get rejected at least you will specifically know why and will be able to go back and fix what is needed to be fixed, instead of working on improving the wrong department.

What i don't understand is how can you try to sound like you are an ADCOM and know exactly what one needs to do to have a better chance...of course if one has some logic then it is obvious but why discourage ppl or act like an authority when you are as much certain as anyone lese here....unless you are ACDOM...

 

[spicedmanna]

chances are always 50/50...even if you have a high GPA..you can only get in or be rejected there is no third alternative. And besides how do you know that someone with 3.7 have 75% more chance vs somebody with 3.3? For instance doctormom got in with 3.2 and 23 MCAT...she had 3 interview offers out of few schools she applied to...yeah she may be an exception but i know 2 other ppl on these boards who got in with nearly same stats to few schools, while we all read about ppl with higher stats not getting in even to DO programs. I also did my homework and emailed few schools i was interested in with questions about stats etc. So i have a pretty good idea but it's all very subjective...we all don't know unless we apply.
And besides if you apply and even when you get rejected at least you will specifically know why and will be able to go back and fix what is needed to be fixed, instead of working on improving the wrong department.

Hi, dr.kicia,

I have a throbbing headache in my left occiptal region today, so forgive me if come off strangely... It sounds like you are saying that higher statistics don't always equal better chances and that there are subjective elements to the admissions process. I think we can all agree with that. There really isn't an argument from my end.

I don't always recommend raising numbers. I don't fixate on statistics, if they don't need to be addressed. As you will note, I basically left some folks alone, when I thought their numbers were competitive enough. What I try to do is to help the individual make their application more competitive, whether that is getting the right kind of EC's, letter of recommendations, applying to the right places, developing a better MCAT strategy, learning about the osteopathic tradition, doing a post-bacc and trending A's to show academic proficiency, etc., and the list goes on. I am trying to help the person have more choices and better chances. My help doesn't come with a guarantee, there will always be exceptions. We know that. However, think of me like a good sports coach. If, after observing you, I think there is an area that needs fixing, or an area that can be improved that will add significantly to your performance, I will suggest it. Often folks know exactly what that is and come here looking for confirmation. I give it to them, often with some additional suggestions.

I agree that there are subjective elements to this process. I help people address these elements when I think it would be of benefit. Yes, there are things that are out of our control in the application stage, but it isn't as much of a mystery as many people believe it to be. While there isn't a good way to quantify chances, and I rarely ever try, I do think there are things a person can do to make sure they are getting the optimal application experience. Nobody can predict what will happen with absolute certainty. However, I'd rather know that I've addressed everything that needs to be addressed, fixed and/or enhanced what needed to be fixed, or made better, which may or may not be related to my stats, and then let go and trusted whatever force there is out in the universe. Why wait until rejection to figure what went wrong? I say address it before it happens, fix it, make yourself more optimal, and then apply. This is an activity you really only want to do once, and you want to do it in such a way where you don't have to settle, but have choices.

 

[spicedmanna]

What i don't understand is how can you try to sound like you are an ADCOM and know exactly what one needs to do to have a better chance...of course if one has some logic then it is obvious but why discourage ppl or act like an authority when you are as much certain as anyone lese here....unless you are ACDOM...

Wow, okay. This has gone far enough. I am most certainly not an adcom member and I don't ever claim to be. I actually wrote a one page biography to let people know where I am coming from. It is plainly obvious that I am drawing upon my own successful application process. I have also been a life coach and teacher of physical disciplines in the past. In my opinion, I am a great coach and an excellent teacher. That's what I think I'm doing when I give advice: coaching and teaching. I offer my insight into the matter and I help the person get the most optimal experience in applying. I don't guarantee anything. I simply invite people and make suggestions. Bad things can happen and there are elements that are ultimately out of our control. However, I try to offer common suggestions and ways to address common pitfalls that I've seen over and over again, drawing from my own application experience, from observing people throughout the years, from simple logic, and/or from listening to learned people who do have authority and/or more experience in the application process than me. I always recommend that people take my advice with a grain of salt. Ultimately whether they get what they want rests on them and the force that binds the universe together. I can only give folks the insight that I have. They can do whatever they want with it. I wish everyone good luck.

That said, I'm absolutely not going to baby any person that I assist; they are not victims in this process, but responsible adults. I'm going to call it like I see it, much like a good coach would. We're here on a mission and that mission is to get into the very best medical school that that individual aligns with as completely as possible. There is no point in asking for advice from me, if you aren't looking for that. I am not going to cheer you on without offering constructive suggestions on what I think you could benefit from, if any. I appreciate where appreciation is due and I point out areas that can be improved upon where it appears to be indicated. This isn't a love-fest. It's a long and difficult game. I can offer some insight on how to crack it.

 

[Animus]

chances are always 50/50...even if you have a high GPA..you can only get in or be rejected there is no third alternative. And besides how do you know that someone with 3.7 have 75% more chance vs somebody with 3.3? For instance doctormom got in with 3.2 and 23 MCAT...she had 3 interview offers out of few schools she applied to...yeah she may be an exception but i know 2 other ppl on these boards who got in with nearly same stats to few schools, while we all read about ppl with higher stats not getting in even to DO programs. I also did my homework and emailed few schools i was interested in with questions about stats etc. So i have a pretty good idea but it's all very subjective...we all don't know unless we apply.
And besides if you apply and even when you get rejected at least you will specifically know why and will be able to go back and fix what is needed to be fixed, instead of working on improving the wrong department.

What i don't understand is how can you try to sound like you are an ADCOM and know exactly what one needs to do to have a better chance...of course if one has some logic then it is obvious but why discourage ppl or act like an authority when you are as much certain as anyone lese here....unless you are ACDOM...

Dont get all hot and bothered just because I am stating my opinion in opposition to your own. Obviously with your statement about the ADCOM crap we both know you are being belligerent.

I have never stated I was close to an adcom and like Spiced said we are both just going off of what we know from our own experience of a successful process and from other people we have read. Obviously numbers are not everything, I never said they were, but they are what gets looked at and they are very important.

Somehow you are trying to argue that someone with a 25 MCAT is no better off than the same exact person with a 30...I think we can agree you have no argument any longer.

Finally if you think what I am doing is wrong that is your opinion, I am trying to be helpful. I try to let people know what they need to hopefully have a successful app cycle. I have NEVER told anyone they should not apply, in fact quite the opposite.

Regardless of all this, helping people out is what we are doing here, if you think you can do better start your own "chances" thread and give your advice. I hope telling everyone to give it their best shot and to not worry about that 3.1gpa or that 22MCAT goes well for you.

 

[dr.kicia]

Dont get all hot and bothered just because I am stating my opinion in opposition to your own. Obviously with your statement about the ADCOM crap we both know you are being belligerent.

I have never stated I was close to an adcom and like Spiced said we are both just going off of what we know from our own experience of a successful process and from other people we have read. Obviously numbers are not everything, I never said they were, but they are what gets looked at and they are very important.

Somehow you are trying to argue that someone with a 25 MCAT is no better off than the same exact person with a 30...I think we can agree you have no argument any longer.

Finally if you think what I am doing is wrong that is your opinion, I am trying to be helpful. I try to let people know what they need to hopefully have a successful app cycle. I have NEVER told anyone they should not apply, in fact quite the opposite.

Regardless of all, this helping people out is what we are doing here, if you think you can do better start your own "chances" thread and give your advice. I hope telling everyone to give it their best shot and to not worry about that 3.1gpa or that 22MCAT goes well for you.

you totally misunderstood everything i have said.
nevermind, you are right...sorry to disturb your thread.

 

[spicedmanna]

Thanks for the great replies, Spicedmanna and Animus!! Your information was very helpful to me.

Spicedmanna, please forgive my ignorance on this, but is there some place to find out which schools have a strong instate preference so I don't waste my time? On the AACOM website of schools, I haven't come across anything so far...

Also, do you think that having ties to the area is helpful in applying, i.e., my fiancé is from Boston so UNE is my first choice because we want to live out East near his family. Would it help to emphasize that to them somehow, like in my PS or something? Or, do you think I'm just wasting my time?

I really appreciate your help!!

http://aacom.org/data/annualreport/index.html

The annual report has all of the statistical information you could ever need.
Edit: Page 20 has instate/out of state stuff.

I had sort of a similar situation, my gf and I both applied to many schools. I do not think it can hurt showing extra interest in a school based on its location and for personal reasons. You might be taking a bit of a risk because I do not know that all schools look at relationships as a great reason for wanting to be in a certain area. However, if it is a school that does not take many oos'ers and you have no real reason for going there I would use everything in my arsenal to try and convince them. You really have nothing to lose if they rarely take people from out of the area and you need reasons for them to think you really want to attend.

You're welcome, IUgrad. Animus got to your question before me, but I agree with his advice.

Here's what I will add on top of what Animus has already said: You have ample opportunity to express your interest in a school through the secondary application and through the interview. I would avoid making your PS specifically geared to any one school, or location; it isn't meant for that. Your PS is designed to advertise you to all the schools you are making application to, to give all the schools some insight into your character, uniqueness, suitability, and motivations. I wouldn't muddy it up by trying to cater to one school in particular. That's what the secondary application essays and some of the questions asked during the interview are for.

 

[spicedmanna]

you totally misunderstood everything i have said.
nevermind, you are right...sorry to disturb your thread.

Hi, dr.kicia,

This is a thread that is designed to offer advice to students who are interested in feedback about the application process and their application profile. They know we are merely students who have just finished the process ourselves. We are not experts, but we are willing to work with people and offer insights into the process based on our experience.

I urge folks reading this thread to take all the good suggestions made on this thread in the context of everything else. Take what is useful and discard what is not. Trust in yourself, but listen to the hints that people tend to repeat. There may be something there to examine.

dr.kicia, you are absolutely welcome to agree or disagree with any advice or suggestion offered here, and the same goes for all others. That is your prerogative and you could actually be correct; there is certainly no monopoly on the truth. I value your input and feedback on our service; I am listening and learning. Feel free to offer any constructive feedback that you want to add. Let's keep the primary focus on the applicants, however. We are here to help the applicants in their application process.

 

[dr.kicia]

Hi, dr.kicia,

This is a thread that is designed to offer advice to students who are interested in feedback about the application process and their application profile. They know we are merely students who have just finished the process ourselves. We are not experts, but we are willing to work with people and offer insights into the process based on our experience.

I urge folks reading this thread to take all the good suggestions made on this thread in the context of everything else. Take what is useful and discard what is not. Trust in yourself, but listen to the hints that people tend to repeat. There may be something there to examine.

dr.kicia, you are absolutely welcome to agree or disagree with any advice or suggestion offered here, and the same goes for all others. That is your prerogative and you could actually be correct; there is certainly no monopoly on the truth. I value your input and feedback on our service; I am listening and learning. Feel free to offer any constructive feedback that you want to add. Let's keep the primary focus on the applicants, however. We are here to help the applicants in their application process.

well all i wanted was to contribute a different point of view. And as you i am speaking from mine and my freinds' experiance and from reading these boards for 4 years. I apreaciate your posts and a very polite argumentation but the othe rposter was being more agressive and i have not come here to stirr out the fight or turn this into personal attacks.
I belive that sometimes the best thing is to take a chance. Fixing a GPA that is low takes years and this process is not math. Doing x, y and z doesn't gurantee anything. Ofcourse it never hurts to rock the MCAt or improve the GPA but some of us had unusual circumstances that resulted in lower stats and we may have a lot of strenghts otherwise in out application. So why in that instance would one wait and risk that in 2 years they will be as average as before (we all know how much competetive each year DO schools are getting).
I for instance am an immigrant from another country (came to US when i was 18).I am having a trouble with my MCAT practice in VR. It takes me 6-8 minutes just to read and understand the passage but then i get all the questions right or miss just one in that passage. Unfortunatelly they do not give me and extra 20 minutes on the test so i have to shoot without even reading a passage on the last 2 passages. The PS and BS section I finish with 5 minutes of extra time. My most recent score was BS10/VR6/PS10...now ofcourse one may say MCAT of 26 and 6 in VR sucks and i need to improve this to have a chance...but being an ESL how much time would i need to improve my reading speed? years...that is why even if i end up getting lower then 26 i am still going to apply because i know i can do very little to fix it. And does my VR score means that i am uncapable of doing well in med school? It's very relative. Even if i will need to read something 20 minutes longer but then fully know what is going on will this make a huge difference in my studying? NO!
I am just showing things from my perspective, a different point of view. Take it or through it out the window but just be aware that there is other way of looking at the same thing.

 

[Animus]

well all i wanted was to contribute a different point of view. And as you i am speaking from mine and my freinds' experiance and from reading these boards for 4 years. I apreaciate your posts and a very polite argumentation but the othe rposter was being more agressive and i have not come here to stirr out the fight or turn this into personal attacks.
I belive that sometimes the best thing is to take a chance. Fixing a GPA that is low takes years and this process is not math. Doing x, y and z doesn't gurantee anything. Ofcourse it never hurts to rock the MCAt or improve the GPA but some of us had unusual circumstances that resulted in lower stats and we may have a lot of strenghts otherwise in out application. So why in that instance would one wait and risk that in 2 years they will be as average as before (we all know how much competetive each year DO schools are getting).
I am just showing things from my perspective, a different point of view. Take it or through it out the window but just be aware that there is other way of looking at the same thing.

At no point have I been aggresive, or if you think so you should see me when I get mad . Trust me I know what you are saying, your bottomline is people still have a chance with lower "numbers". I agree with you, there is no doubt that a lot of things play a role in the admissions process. I did not have the best stats possible and I was still accepted so I definitelty know where you are coming from. My gpa was 3.1 overall and I was still accepted (although I did do a post bacc and had a 3.81 there).

What you are doing though is beating a dead horse. Spiced and I have responded to you telling you that you are right, it is a possibility. But the goal of what Spiced and I are doing is to try to ensure people do not become complacent and happy with an average. If an applicant tells us will it be ok to get mid 20's we will not be happy to say, "sure you can get that". When we know if you encourage them to give more effort and get that 30 they will be considerably better off.

That is the only contention we are making and I believe it is the right one to make. Allowing people to think that they have a chance is one thing, but encouraging them to push harder and try for that extra few gpa or MCAT points will hopefully increase their chances enough for the acceptance.

 

[spicedmanna]

well all i wanted was to contribute a different point of view. And as you i am speaking from mine and my freinds' experiance and from reading these boards for 4 years. I apreaciate your posts and a very polite argumentation but the othe rposter was being more agressive and i have not come here to stirr out the fight or turn this into personal attacks.
I belive that sometimes the best thing is to take a chance. Fixing a GPA that is low takes years and this process is not math. Doing x, y and z doesn't gurantee anything. Ofcourse it never hurts to rock the MCAt or improve the GPA but some of us had unusual circumstances that resulted in lower stats and we may have a lot of strenghts otherwise in out application. So why in that instance would one wait and risk that in 2 years they will be as average as before (we all know how much competetive each year DO schools are getting).
I for instance am an immigrant from another country (came to US when i was 18).I am having a trouble with my MCAT practice in VR. It takes me 6-8 minutes just to read and understand the passage but then i get all the questions right or miss just one in that passage. Unfortunatelly they do not give me and extra 20 minutes on the test so i have to shoot without even reading a passage on the last 2 passages. The PS and BS section I finish with 5 minutes of extra time. My most recent score was BS10/VR6/PS10...now ofcourse one may say MCAT of 26 and 6 in VR sucks and i need to improve this to have a chance...but being an ESL how much time would i need to improve my reading speed? years...that is why even if i end up getting lower then 26 i am still going to apply because i know i can do very little to fix it. And does my VR score means that i am uncapable of doing well in med school? It's very relative. Even if i will need to read something 20 minutes longer but then fully know what is going on will this make a huge difference in my studying? NO!
I am just showing things from my perspective, a different point of view. Take it or through it out the window but just be aware that there is other way of looking at the same thing.

Hi, dr.kicia,

Blind recommendations aren't worth very much, in my mind. I try not to make them, where it can be avoided. I try to look at the context from which the person is coming from. Everybody has unique circumstances, they aren't just a collection of stats. What I do is to try to read a little into the context, see what can be readily/easily improved, and suggest it. Often this is what the person already has in mind, they just need a little push to get them to make a firm decision. I also try to be conscious of when the individual wishes to apply, the actual application time line itself, and what the applicant is actually willing, or not willing, to do. There are some improvements that can be realistically done, and others that are clearly not, within the context of these points. I try to suggest realistic improvements that can be accomplished within a reasonable time frame. All you really need to do is read any of my posts here. You'll see very quickly that I am being very realistic in my approach. Anyway, there's an art to coaching folks. I don't really have an algorithm for helping folks; I mostly just listen and observe and follow my educated hunches on what would be the most transformative advice.

What you say is not without merit and it does apply to some individuals. For example, if you don't think you can realistically improve your VR, then I wouldn't recommend that you delay yourself in order to try to do it. You've told me in your post what you are willing to do and what is realistic for you. Why would I go against your own recommendation for yourself? You definitely know yourself better than me. Suggesting that you try to improve your VR would probably not be a reasonable course of action in light of all these factors. I would say it would be a wise move, however, to make sure that your PS and your essays are well-written.

Also, it's quite clear from recent studies that VR has very little to do with COMLEX-USA Level 1 and MS-1 performance. I wouldn't draw any conclusions about your VR score and what kind of doctor you will make. That's completely silly, in my opinion. However, it is clear that your practice VR score is a little low (in my humble opinion, scores below 7 can raise red-flags at some schools). Your other sections look pretty good, however. If that's the score you end up getting on the actual test, I think that many schools will take your low VR in context of your circumstances. They may ask you about it during an interview, in which case, you just need to be able to address it appropriately.

I appreciate your perspective. I strive to listen consciously. I will continue to do so and remember to check what context the applicant is coming from before issuing my advice.

Thanks.

 

[spicedmanna]

What you are doing though is beating a dead horse. Spiced and I have responded to you telling you that you are right, it is a possibility. But the goal of what Spiced and I are doing is to try to ensure people do not become complacent and happy with an average. If an applicant tells us will it be ok to get mid 20's we will not be happy to say, "sure you can get that". When we know if you encourage them to give more effort and get that 30 they will be considerably better off.

That is the only contention we are making and I believe it is the right one to make. Allowing people to think that they have a chance is one thing, but encouraging them to push harder and try for that extra few gpa or MCAT points will hopefully increase their chances enough for the acceptance.

Agreed.

 

[Animus]

Oh sure rescind my other comments.

I saw that edit!!!

 

[spicedmanna]

Oh sure rescind my other comments.

I saw that edit!!!

I fully agree with you and stand by what you said. I'm just trying to be less long-winded in my comments and suggestions.

EDIT: fixed.

 

[MaximusD]

well i would love that too but with 3.2 GPA and probobly a low MCAT (according to my 3 practice tests i took so far...one word VERBAL ...7/8/8, then 9/7/10 and today 9/6/10 ) I would probobly have even problems with getting a PCOM secondary if any of the schools at all

i so hate being an ESL person...damn verbal

Well then you're only out 30 bucks...

 

[MaximusD]

this is a great thread and all-

but it seems like everyone is overshooting their advice quite a bit. someone with a 3.1 science and 3.3 overall definitely does NOT need a 30 MCAT to be competitive. if they apply early they should get a few interviews with an average MCAT, and maybe an acceptance or two.

i always thought that a 3.0 or higher overall and science tied with a 24+ MCAT was enough for a "shot" at a wide range of schools, given an early application and winning personality + ec's?

but then again, its 1 am and maybe i'm delerious.

I applied to 17 schools (more counting the pre-secondary rejections..) and got interviewed at 3 with a 32 MCAT and a ~95th percentile verbal score. My GPA was a 3.25. I think that it is realistic to say that an applicant needs over a 30 for a competitive shot. Sorry Mraz, this may be the first and only time I disagree with you, but I am disagreeing with you nonetheless.

If your GPA is <3.3 then you should be shooting for high 20's at least for a shot at PCOM, CCOM, MSUCOM, UMDNJ-SOM, NYCOM, etc.

 

[spicedmanna]

Hi, everyone,

As a continued service to you all here, I've compiled a list of links that could be helpful in your process of choosing schools to apply to. Rankings of schools by statistics are pretty much meaningless, in my opinion. Obviously there are many more factors that are involved in determining the quality of a school than just these numbers alone. In choosing schools, it is better to develop your own criteria and measure schools against them. However, it's a good idea to compare yourself against the average statistics of each school you are thinking of applying to, in order to get a good idea of where you stand. Thus, I'd ignore the rankings based solely on numbers, but definitely heed the individual averages for comparison against yourself.

Other important elements to pay attention to in choosing a school are, in random order, the school's curriculum, the mission statement, the main focuses of the school, the match list, the percentage receiving their first choice in the match, the board pass rate, the average board scores, the location, in-state/OOS statistics, the tuition and other fees, the dual degree programs and fellowships offered, the structure and quality of clinical rotations and affliations, research opportunities and other activities offered during the summer and the clinical years, and other factors.

Here are some links to check out:

1. AACOM Guidebook on Osteopathic Medical Schools
   
2. 2006 Annual Statistical Report on Osteopathic Medical Education
   
3. Osteopathic Medical Schools listed in descending order by total MCAT
   
4. Osteopathic Medical Education in the United States: Improving the Future of Medicine
   
5. Debt, Plans and Opinions of Osteopathic Medical Students in 2004
   
6. Residency Match Lists
   
7. Number & Percent Matching into First Choice Residency (AOA), By School (2002-2006)
   
8. Acceptance Rate with Interview
   
9. Percentage, By School, of IS/OOS Applied then Received Interviews, Interviewed and then Accepted

 

[supernareg]

how old are those?

 

[spicedmanna]

how old are those?

AACOM updates it's numbers and information pretty regularly. The AACOM Guidebook of Osteopathic Medical Schools is part of the AACOM Osteopathic Medical College Information Book (CIB) 2007 entering class. The statistical guidebook is for 2006, as it says. The KCOM listing was last updated on 3/13/06. I'm not sure about eckerd listing.

 

[spicedmanna]

I found four more exciting links and updated the Statistical Values for Osteopathic Medical Schools post, listing them. It now includes information on match lists, number and percent matching into their first choice residency (AOA), by school, and a by school percentage listing of IS/OOS applied then received interviews, interviewed and then accepted.

Enjoy.

 

[scpod]

...(in my humble opinion, scores below 7 can raise red-flags at some schools)....

Maybe, but I know quite a few people in med school now with a six in one category or another-- not just at my school, at others as well. The one thing to keep in mind when you are giving out advice is that you have one point of view and limited information from others that you may have met here or elsewhere. After you have actually started med school, you'll talk to hundreds of other students and you'll find that everybody's story is way diffferent. You'll go to conferences and meet people from all over the US and hear their stories as well-- people who actually got in and what they had to go through.

In addition, you'll get to talk to a lot of admissions staff (and adcom members) on a daily basis. You'll talk about the things that they like or dislike and you'll here about the interviews that they've done recently. You'll have a lot etter understanding of the process than you do now. I aplaud you for trying to be helpful with all the newbies, but you could easily give bad advicde if you are not careful. Be careful, because when you set up a thread like this and "run" with it, you set yourself up as kind of an expert. Always keep an open mind with your answers.

 

[spicedmanna]

Be careful, because when you set up a thread like this and "run" with it, you set yourself up as kind of an expert. Always keep an open mind with your answers.

I really appreciate your thoughtful feedback and advice, scpod. I will exercise care in giving advice and approach with due humbleness. It's true that I have very limited knowledge and information.

I want to reiterate again, that I am not an expert on this subject and I'm certainly not an adcom member. I am a rising MS-1; that's all. Please take what I say with many grains of salt. I hope I can be of benefit to those of you who post here and wish you much luck in the application process.

EDIT: I just noticed that you have become a SDN advisor. Congratulations! The administration is lucky to have you, because I know I've benefitted from and appreciated your advice.

 

[Animus]

I really appreciate your thoughtful feedback and advice, scpod. I will exercise care in giving advice and approach with due humbleness. It's true that I have very limited knowledge and information.

I want to reiterate again, that I am not an expert on this subject and I'm certainly not an adcom member. I am a rising MS-1; that's all. Please take what I say with many grains of salt. I hope I can be of benefit to those of you who post here and wish you much luck in the application process.

EDIT: I just noticed that you have become a SDN advisor. Congratulations! The administration is lucky to have you, because I know I've benefited and appreciated your advice.

I agree fully with everything Spiced has said here. I too am far from being an expert. What I say is only as beneficial as the posts I have read on here and my own application process. In no way is anything I say written in stone or to be taken as the be all end all of application advice. I can only speak from the experiences I have had and the experience I have taken in via reading.
Added on to this you will never hear me say, "you are going to get in for sure" or "you have no chance". That is not the way this works, I will give you advice on how I think you can better your app and then you take that advice and make your own decision. It is up to each and every person in the application cycle to do their own personal best to get an acceptance all we can do is offer advice the rest is up to you to sell yourself.

 

[spicedmanna]

Added on to this you will never hear me say, "you are going to get in for sure" or "you have no chance". That is not the way this works, I will give you advice on how I think you can better your app and then you take that advice and make your own decision. It is up to each and every person in the application cycle to do their own personal best to get an acceptance all we can do is offer advice the rest is up to you to sell yourself.

 

[Ilikescience]

I love this thread! Hope you guys aren't sick of it yet, cause I got more stats for ya.

24f (from Cali)
part native american, but not enrolled in a tribe
(want to work at Indian Health Center or on Reservation)
Grad from UC

UGPA: 3.29
Sci GPA: 3.32
MCAT: P:10 B:10 VR: 7 (27P)


-my name is published in Proceeding of National Academy of Sciences (3yo researching atherosclerosis through high school and summer of college)
-worked in Biotech during college
-played intramural volleyball and softball
-worked as a medical office assistant in Urology practice
-volunteer for teaching science to inner city/rural middle schools via SNMA
-summer volunteer at Familia Center (teached English to Spanish speakers, and chaperoned children from low-income spanish speaking families during summer camp program)
-Health Slugs member/volunteer and organized Biology Graduation for my University
-volunteer for Kerry Kennedy's event Speak Truth to Power
-attended molecular biology conference on atherosclerosis
-LMSA annual conference at Stanford
-attended some CHE meetings
-3 month internship at local hospital rotating thru hospital shadowing diff docs and attending every medical conference offered
-shadowing DO now, will get good LOR
-AMSA member

Now I am studying to re-take the MCAT, but may decide to get a full time job to make some dollars before applications empty my bank account. I am applying 2008 cycle and am considering taking a class or two at a JC (cheap), but probably won't be able to take enough to raise my gpa sufficiently. Anyone have any advice for whether I should take the MCAT over or just take courses and work? Any ideas of which schools would probably take lil ol me?


Sorry for the massive post. Any advice is greatly appreciated!