What are my dubious chances of getting into a DO school thread ...

[Animus]

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Yeah dont buy that...I had stats that were actually pretty close to you, and I did much worse than a 30 on the MCAT. I got into school. Remember to take every bit of advice here with a grain (or two) of salt. People dont really know what a school is looking for exactly, as none of us are on the adcom at any school. Good luck. Sorry if I stepped on any toes, but I am sick of reading about "what are my chances with a 3.x gpa" and then people being told "theres no way unless you score a 46Z on the mcat...". You dont have to be a 4.0/40 MCAT student, you need to be a good student (above a 3.0, ideally above a 3.5), a decent MCAT (at least a 22) and a decent set of EC's. It does not hurt one bit to be personable and a good interviewee. Keep your head up and a chip on your shoulder. Good luck.

He said 30+ because it is what you should shoot for, he never said it was what you HAD to get. There is a big difference you need to see why he is saying what he is saying. Its makes it much worse on here when people like you come and say, oh you can get a 22 and get in, it has happened before...

 

[Animus]

Thanks. I feel as if the interview (hopefully I get some) will be my strong point. I'm definitely personable and can communicate well with almost anyone.

Trust me you want the numbers, first of all you have to get an interview and numbers get you that. Secondly interviews are not a guarantee of anything imo they are 75% how well you interview 25% luck. By luck I mean you could get a person or people who you do not click with and you may be screwed, sorry but that is reality. When it comes down to it you want that numbers for that and to back up a possibly crappy interview.

 

[spicedmanna]

You dont have to be a 4.0/40 MCAT student, you need to be a good student (above a 3.0, ideally above a 3.5), a decent MCAT (at least a 22) and a decent set of EC's. It does not hurt one bit to be personable and a good interviewee.

I disagree slightly with your numbers, but agree with you in principle. That said, whenever I bring up numbers in a conversation I usually try to use them in the context of what I think will offer the best, or most optimal, chances and options in the application process. There's no doubt that if one is average, or even just decent (whatever that means), they stand an average chance, but there's also little value in discussing this. What is worth giving advice on, in my opinion, is how to make a person's application even better than it is right now; that is, how we can further optimize his or her chances and options.

 

[spicedmanna]

Trust me you want the numbers, first of all you have to get an interview and numbers get you that. Secondly interviews are not a guarantee of anything. . .

I agree with this. It always works toward your advantage to have solid numbers. Don't depend on any one factor to get you accepted. Make them all as acceptance-worthy as possible. 👍

 

[Animus]

Animus, thank you for the advice. I have a little more information, so I'm not sure if that would change your opinion, so I just want to double check. When I shadowed at CHOP, I interacted with patients alot...recording histories, explaining basic genetics to the parents (it was a pediatric genetics clinic), and performing literature reviews for the various symptoms of the patient...so, does this count as clinical experience because I thought it did. I went there from January through April. As far as volunteering I do Relay for Life and Special Olympics- I know that isn't exactly volunteering at a hospital, but is that enough? Would you still suggest holding off another year to get more experience? I'm afraid to retake the MCAT since my actual score was much lower than my practice scores, and I heard that if I retake the test without improvement that will hurt me more than if I don't retake it. Is that true? Thanks for the help!

Invis is right. It will hurt you if you do worse, with everything you have said you seem alright. I mean if you can explain in a bunch of patient experience and you have volunteered enough (not sure what is a good amount but I would say at least 150+ hours in college) you can get in with your gpa and scores. Make sure to talk about that patient experience in secondaries or if you can make it look nice into PS thats good too. Your MCAT is still low so it will be hard for you to get interviews. It definitely can be done, you must apply early though and apply broadly imo!!

If you need more ideas PM me.

 

[scpod]

You dont have to be a 4.0/40 MCAT student, you need to be a good student (above a 3.0, ideally above a 3.5), a decent MCAT (at least a 22) and a decent set of EC's....

I don't think that I could call a 22 a "decent" MCAT. It's below average. If average is like getting a C in a class, then a 22MCAT is like making a D. Yes, you CAN get in with a 22, but the people with 22's usually have EXTRAORDINARY other stuff in their file. They were presidents of student organizations, class valedictorians, had 10,000 hours of volunteer work, and singlehandledly fed the total homeless population of Hackensack, NJ for a whole year.

The vast majority of the people I know that got in late from my own school's alternate list had everything they needed EXCEPT and above average MCAT. You really can't look at grades because No two schools are alike. A 4.0 at one place might not compare to a 3.5 at a prestigious university. You can't look at EC's because there is no way to quantify that information. The only thing that is truly equal is the MCAT because everyone has to take the same test in order to get into med school. Do not underestimate it's value!

That said, no, it's not the only thing, but it's the equalizer. I don't necessarily agree with the way it is used, but it's the most quantifiable way to separate applicants. I know people who got in with 22's and are doing really well, but it's a mistake not to try again until you at least meet the average entrance requirements-- especially if anything else in your application is less than stellar.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Yeah dont buy that...I had stats that were actually pretty close to you, and I did much worse than a 30 on the MCAT. I got into school. Remember to take every bit of advice here with a grain (or two) of salt. People dont really know what a school is looking for exactly, as none of us are on the adcom at any school. Good luck. Sorry if I stepped on any toes, but I am sick of reading about "what are my chances with a 3.x gpa" and then people being told "theres no way unless you score a 46Z on the mcat...". You dont have to be a 4.0/40 MCAT student, you need to be a good student (above a 3.0, ideally above a 3.5), a decent MCAT (at least a 22) and a decent set of EC's. It does not hurt one bit to be personable and a good interviewee. Keep your head up and a chip on your shoulder. Good luck.

22 is decent? It's mediocre at best -- that is a HORRIBLE stat.

So, I guess you're the outlier who scored the worst for your class at the school -- very nice.

Don't give pathetic advice encouraging people to do their worst.

I actually fell ill reading your rant -- it was a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Thanks. I feel as if the interview (hopefully I get some) will be my strong point. I'm definitely personable and can communicate well with almost anyone.

Don't listen to Lamont. Listen to a non-newbie, like myself, Animus, and Spiced ... or anyone else really, but not Lamont.

22 = decent score??

 

[Dr.Inviz]

He said 30+ because it is what you should shoot for, he never said it was what you HAD to get. There is a big difference you need to see why he is saying what he is saying. Its makes it much worse on here when people like you come and say, oh you can get a 22 and get in, it has happened before...

👍

I totally agree.

I despise the quackery that goes on pre-osteo: settle for just enough to get into medical school. Sure, you may get in -- but why chance it. Do your best and then it's more in the hands of the adcom and the "soft" stats -- i.e. your ECs, interview, LORs, etc.

Secure the "hard" stats -- GPA/MCAT -- and you should be fine.

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

Since this seems to be where everyone asks this question, here I go.

GPA: 3.67 w/ 180 credits.
Sci gpa:? (I have never calculated it) probably 3.5-3.6
MCAT: 27O (9's in each section)

EC: 1 year v.p. of a national hounor society
3 years volunteer w/ teaching high school kids about science
1 year peer mentor for non trad students
1 summer federal program w/ disadvantaged youth
3 years working full time in health care (psych ward, post op unit, sleep lab)
About 60 hours of shadowing: a podiatrist, 3 sleep docs, and a fp d.o.
1 research project, may get published
Married, 2 kids (not really ec, but eats up my time)

Thanks for your thoughts. thinking of these schools
ATSTill
Azcom
DMU
Texas
kansas city
touro nevada

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Since this seems to be where everyone asks this question, here I go.

GPA: 3.67 w/ 180 credits.
Sci gpa:? (I have never calculated it) probably 3.5-3.6
MCAT: 27O (9's in each section)

EC: 1 year v.p. of a national hounor society
3 years volunteer w/ teaching high school kids about science
1 year peer mentor for non trad students
1 summer federal program w/ disadvantaged youth
3 years working full time in health care (psych ward, post op unit, sleep lab)
About 60 hours of shadowing: a podiatrist, 3 sleep docs, and a fp d.o.
1 research project, may get published
Married, 2 kids (not really ec, but eats up my time)

Thanks for your thoughts. thinking of these schools
ATSTill
Azcom
DMU
Texas
kansas city
touro nevada

Great stats. I would apply to those schools and even consider in-state allo schools depending on which state you live.

If you apply to TCOM, I hope you are an instate applicant because they heavily take instaters, not that they don't take OOS'ers, but it's only tougher.

Apply early, and you should be fine.

 

[spicedmanna]

Since this seems to be where everyone asks this question, here I go.

GPA: 3.67 w/ 180 credits.
Sci gpa:? (I have never calculated it) probably 3.5-3.6
MCAT: 27O (9's in each section)

EC: 1 year v.p. of a national hounor society
3 years volunteer w/ teaching high school kids about science
1 year peer mentor for non trad students
1 summer federal program w/ disadvantaged youth
3 years working full time in health care (psych ward, post op unit, sleep lab)
About 60 hours of shadowing: a podiatrist, 3 sleep docs, and a fp d.o.
1 research project, may get published
Married, 2 kids (not really ec, but eats up my time)

Thanks for your thoughts. thinking of these schools
ATSTill
Azcom
DMU
Texas
kansas city
touro nevada

Well there's nothing really constructive that I can say, expect good luck and apply as early as you can. You appear to be a solid applicant at face value, with an above average GPA and MCAT; you have the requisite EC's as well. Get good letters and write good essays. Be prompt with everything. Apply broadly anyway, because you never know what school you may end up falling in love with when you interview with them. Keep in mind that TCOM has a strong in-state preference, as Dr. I mentioned above; be aware of such things.

Research the schools carefully, learn what about their distinguishing characteristics and their mission statement. Know why you would attend the schools that you are interviewing. Also, make sure you are solid with your knowledge of osteopathic priniciples and history. Know how to answer, "Why medicine now?" since you appear to be a non-trad. Know how to answer, "Why osteopathic medicine?"

Good luck.

 

[spicedmanna]

Since this seems to be where everyone asks this question, here I go.

I'm a little confused, since it appears that you are going to be attending podiatry school this Fall. Are you considering deferring, or releasing your seat at AZPOD and pursuing osteopathic medicine instead, or are you still going to attend podiatry school, but are ultimately wanting to change focus to osteopathic medicine? 😕

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

I having been pre med a while. I learned about podiatry a year ago. I am married w/ 2 kids. I really want to be a doctor, but want to see my family as much as possible (the great paradox).

I was told and it was confirmed by many that podiatry was very family friendly. I loved midwestern, and as of right now, am planning on going that route. However, the more I learn, the less family friendly it seems and it appears I will work the same hours as most doctors.

That is a short explanation, but I am just kind of feeling out the osteopathic track. I love the philosophy behind it, and was just curious were my chances would sit if that were the route I went.
Thanks

Also, I have some potential family issue i might have to deal with.

 

[spicedmanna]

...love the philosophy behind it, and was just curious were my chances would sit if that were the route I went.

Well, as of right now, you stand quite well. You are definitely competitive for most osteopathic schools that don't have a strong instate preference. Heck, you might actually be a good candidate for your allopathic state school(s) as well.

However, there is an additional consideration. If you go ahead with AZPOD, you are now a podiatry student. I wonder how that would be perceived by adcoms. It might not hurt you if you are clear that you actually want DO over DPM, but you should definitely have clarity around the issue as you may get asked that in an interview; it's definitely relevant.

This might be worth asking the adcom mentors in the mentor forum, just to see what they think about the switch. I think you should be okay, though, as long as you convince them that DO is definitely what you want.

Good luck to you!

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

Well, as of right now, you stand quite well. You are definitely competitive for most osteopathic schools that don't have a strong instate preference. Heck, you might actually be a good candidate for your allopathic state school(s) as well.

However, there is an additional consideration. If you go ahead with AZPOD, you are now a podiatry student. I wonder how that would be perceived by adcoms. It might not hurt you if you are clear that you actually want DO over DPM, but you should definitely have clarity around the issue as you may get asked that in an interview; it's definitely relevant.

This might be worth asking the adcom mentors in the mentor forum, just to see what they think about the switch. I think you should be okay, though, as long as you convince them that DO is definitely what you want.

Good luck to you!

Thanks for the reply. If I decid osteo, I won't even be attending azpod. Again, just hypothetical.

 

[spicedmanna]

Thanks for the reply. If I decid osteo, I won't even be attending azpod. Again, just hypothetical.

Understood. Good luck in your decision process! Let me know if I can help further.

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

Understood. Good luck in your decision process! Let me know if I can help further.

Much appreciated. Thanks again

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Thanks for the reply. If I decid osteo, I won't even be attending azpod. Again, just hypothetical.

You should be fine for any DO school (and like I suggested previously -- your state allo program(s).) One more thing: don't stutter -- that's very important.

 

[burndoc]

I am graduate student working on two masters degrees- one in anatomy and one in public health. The degree in anatomy allows me to take 2 medical school courses in which I can prove myself. I ended up with a high B in one (because of unfortunate circumstances with deaths in my family) and a high C in the other (it was a 7 wk course, and I had finals for public health fall during two exams). However, at the same time I had been working on my course work for Public Health and received a 3.7. Will the C kill my chances of getting into medical school?

GPA: 3.5
Science GPA: 3.3
MCAT: 26

Is this black mark going to kill my chances at even receiving an interview? Is there anything I can do?

I have a paper submitted for publication. I have been a TA for Anatomy, and Physiology. I am a triathlete and have plenty of volunteer work. My EC's are good. I don't know if that C leaves a black mark on my record.

 

[DaiCa86]

Got my MCAT scores, Might be thinking of DO now. I have a 3.9 from UCSD.

I got a 27P
V-6😱
B-10
P-11

I have extracurriculars and clinic experience too.

What do you guys think?

 

[Dr.Inviz]

I am graduate student working on two masters degrees- one in anatomy and one in public health. The degree in anatomy allows me to take 2 medical school courses in which I can prove myself. I ended up with a high B in one (because of unfortunate circumstances with deaths in my family) and a high C in the other (it was a 7 wk course, and I had finals for public health fall during two exams). However, at the same time I had been working on my course work for Public Health and received a 3.7. Will the C kill my chances of getting into medical school?

GPA: 3.5
Science GPA: 3.3
MCAT: 26

Is this black mark going to kill my chances at even receiving an interview? Is there anything I can do?

I have a paper submitted for publication. I have been a TA for Anatomy, and Physiology. I am a triathlete and have plenty of volunteer work. My EC's are good. I don't know if that C leaves a black mark on my record.

Typically, from what I hear from personal friends doing a master's or a SMP, it does not look good to have a C; however, you may be able to use that 3.7 GPA and solid MCAT score as leverage and say it was something that happened due to deaths in the family and pull it off as a fluke because your other credentials are solid. Shadow a DO and an MD. Apply early and broadly and be prepared to explain that C. Other than that, you should do fine for DO schools.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Got my MCAT scores, Might be thinking of DO now. I have a 3.9 from UCSD.

I got a 27P
V-6😱
B-10
P-11

I have extracurriculars and clinic experience too.

What do you guys think?

Yeah, if you're from Cali, which I suspect, the MCAT score royally screws you for any Cali MD school. Try applying to Western (DO school) and any other DO school really, and you should be fine. I'd also consider private allo programs outside of Cali (i.e. MCW) and also consider Wayne State -- they take ALOT of OOSers. I suspect you have shadowed doctors, and for DO schools also shadow a DO and attain a LOR from him/her. Apply early and broadly like I've suggested previously. Be ready to explain the 6 in VR, if English isn't your 1st language -- use that. Also, the science stats are solid anyway. Attain solid LORs overall and a good PS; don't stutter -- and you should be fine.

 

[Animus]

Yeah, if you're from Cali, which I suspect, the MCAT score royally screws you for any Cali MD school. Try applying to Western (DO school) and any other DO school really, and you should be fine. I'd also consider private allo programs outside of Cali (i.e. MCW) and also consider Wayne State -- they take ALOT of OOSers. I suspect you have shadowed doctors, and for DO schools also shadow a DO and attain a LOR from him/her. Apply early and broadly like I've suggested previously. Be ready to explain the 6 in VR, if English isn't your 1st language -- use that. Also, the science stats are solid anyway. Attain solid LORs overall and a good PS; don't stutter -- and you should be fine.

It is funny you say that because in my second interview when I was asked my first question I stuttered initially. It turned out to be a good thing though because I said to myself what is wrong with you and relaxed.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

It is funny you say that because in my second interview when I was asked my first question I stuttered initially. It turned out to be a good thing though because I said to my what is wrong with you and relaxed.

It's definitely natural to do so, especially when you prep for the ridiculously tough questions (healthcare issues, ethical questions, etc.) and then you receive an easy, yet thoughtful question as your 1st question and all you come up with is a massive blank. That's when you breathe deeply, relax, and then speak.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Spiced, Animus -- take over for me. I received a ban for something that shouldn't be infracted for. Whatever, peace out to this forum. I'm done with its self-righteousness.

 

[spicedmanna]

Spiced, Animus -- take over for me. I received a ban for something that shouldn't be infracted for. Whatever, peace out to this forum. I'm done with its self-righteousness.

😱 Seriously?! Oh man, that sucks. I was just getting used to having you back with us. 🙁

 

[Dr.Inviz]

😱 Seriously?! Oh man, that sucks. I was just getting used to having you back with us. 🙁

Thank you. Best of luck at KCUMB. 👍

 

[Cp22kjer]

You're welcome. I like giving back to SDN; it has been a great resource for me when I was applying and will continue to as I move onto medical school.

To answer your question, I am a non-trad student who is a rising MS-1 at Kansas City University of Medicine & Biosciences (KCUMB). I am very excited about starting medical school this fall; it has been a very long journey, not without a bit of challenge.

I received a bachelor's degree in the biological sciences a little more than 10 years ago, and I was very active in neuroendocrinology research, both behavioral and clinical, at the NIH and at my university during my undergraduate years. I worked with some really cool folks. I once considered pursuing graduate work in order to do biomedical/clinical research, but decided that this wasn't what I was looking for after many years of research involvement. I decided that I wanted to have a more palpable experience of wellness, one that no amount of study could provide. I went on to become a yoga and martial arts teacher, learned quite a bit about different healing modalities, and spent some formative years studying somatic psychology through an apprenticeship. During all of that, I sort of put all of my learning together in my practice as a wellness coach.

After some time as a wellness coach, I discovered that I was growing frustrated that I couldn't directly address the healthcare concerns of my clients. I could do much, but ultimately, the role of coach was too limiting. I wanted to get directly involved in managing the care of my clients, in the manner that a physician would. So, I gave it all up and went back to school. I retook most of my premedical prerequisites and received 35 credits of straight A's, leaving little doubt that I was academically ready. I took the MCAT and scored a 28P (09 VR, 07 PS, 12 BS). I fumbled on the PS section, much to my dismay. I don't think I prepared adequately for that section, so it wasn't a total surprise. Nevertheless, you can't always get what you want, but it turned out, at the end, to be enough. My overall GPA and science GPA are about average for a matriculant at osteopathic schools. I also received some additional training through EMT-B certification and internship. I shadowed some physicians, IM and FP, to round everything out.

I applied last cycle (2006 application cycle) to both allopathic and osteopathic medical schools. I made an egregious error by applying late in the process due, in part, to my choice to take the August MCAT (the last paper administration of the test). I wasn't complete at allopathic schools until late October and December/January for osteopathic schools. I think I shot myself in the foot. Had I known about SDN earlier on, I think I would have made better and more prompt decisions, which would have offered greater choices and chances. On the other hand, if I could have done it differently, I would have, so there's little benefit in that kind of analysis. 😉 In addition to all of that, I cast the net a little too narrowly for allopathic schools. That's one of the reasons that I didn't receive any love from the allopathic side. However, my background and application basically screams, "osteopathic," so I got a lot of love there. I applied to about ten osteopathic schools and received three interviews, of which I attended two. I fell in love with KCUMB during my interview and had that deep down in my bones feeling that I would absolutely love attending there. So it was an easy choice for me.

Even though I didn't follow the ideal path, I ultimately got what I wanted. I am drawing upon my own experiences applying, the mistakes I made, and all of the substantive wisdom that has been passed onto me as I was going through the application process when I give advice here. Additionally, I have lots of teaching experience, have worked with psychologists and relationship coaches, and was a computer professional for several years. All of these experiences also add to the advice that I provide.

Hope this gives you an idea of where I am coming from.

Great read, and thanks that sure does answer my question. I find it so interesting the paths people take.

 

[Animus]

Spiced, Animus -- take over for me. I received a ban for something that shouldn't be infracted for. Whatever, peace out to this forum. I'm done with its self-righteousness.

I will work day and night to get you reinstated, what would SDN be without Invis telling it like it is and lettin people have it 😉 . Try to come back we will miss you!!!

 

[surferdoc]

Im going to miss Dr. Invis's rude comments while hes gone...or is it forever?

 

[spicedmanna]

Im going to miss Dr. Invis's rude comments while hes gone...or is it forever?

Bans are generally permanent. Thus, the balance of the force that Dr. I represented will just have to shift elsewhere. This thread is still open for business, however.

 

[mtmedic86]

I'm going to be a senior in the fall and I'm beginning to work on my application. I just got back my April MCAT scores and I'm hoping you might be able to offer some feedback on schools that would be a reasonable bet.

I have a science GPA of 3.2 and an overall GPA of 3.5. My MCAT was 8-PS, 7-BS, and 12-VR with a writing sample score of R. I have lots of clinical experience, science and non-science extracirriculars, and strong letters of recommendations from osteopathic physicians and a variety of professors.

What schools would everyone suggest I check out? PCOM's been a favorite of mine. I haven't checked out many of the others yet. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

 

[Animus]

I'm going to be a senior in the fall and I'm beginning to work on my application. I just got back my April MCAT scores and I'm hoping you might be able to offer some feedback on schools that would be a reasonable bet.

I have a science GPA of 3.2 and an overall GPA of 3.5. My MCAT was 8-PS, 7-BS, and 12-VR with a writing sample score of R. I have lots of clinical experience, science and non-science extracirriculars, and strong letters of recommendations from osteopathic physicians and a variety of professors.

What schools would everyone suggest I check out? PCOM's been a favorite of mine. I haven't checked out many of the others yet. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

Hey mt your app sounds like a good one. Your MCAT is decent, would be better if it were a bit more balanced but it is still ok. If everything else you say is true you should be ok. Your sci gpa is a bit low too but with your overall and mcat think you are alright. Where are you from? That will help us determine where you shoudl apply, but personally I would apply broadly. Give me more info about where you might want to live etc I will help you out more. As for now I say apply whereever though you have a good shot.

 

[doinmybest5840]

Okay, here are my stats, since everyone else is throwing them up there. 3.34 overall GPA, 3.15 (I think I calculated it right...) science GPA at UMich. 31R MCAT (12P, 10B, 9V). 1 year membership in Alpha Phi Omega (community service frat) with 20 hours service [plus time for meetings and whatnot] per semester, nearly a year volunteering at a hospital for ~2hrs/week, shadowed 3 doctors (2 MDs, 1 DO which is writing me an LOR). Worked 2.5 years in an orthopedic office, but it was in high school and mostly clerical/checking patients in, so I'm not sure how much that matters.

I'm thinking of applying to MSUCOM, Nova, CCOM, KCUCOM, DMUCOM, and ACOM. Do I have a decent chance of getting into any of these schools?

Also, the DO writing my LOR is my cousin... is that going to be bad? I'm not close to him at all really, I actually have only met him a few times, but I'm a little worried that the admissions people will be like, "Oh they're related, this is BS" or something. Thoughts?

 

[mtmedic86]

Hey mt your app sounds like a good one. Your MCAT is decent, would be better if it were a bit more balanced but it is still ok. If everything else you say is true you should be ok. Your sci gpa is a bit low too but with your overall and mcat think you are alright. Where are you from? That will help us determine where you shoudl apply, but personally I would apply broadly. Give me more info about where you might want to live etc I will help you out more. As for now I say apply whereever though you have a good shot.

Thanks for the comments. I'm from Northern NJ. Just for a little additional background: I'm an EMT, President of EMS for my township, I work for a hospital training department, I spent a year shadowing a PCOM primary care doc and 4 years volunteering in an ED. I've also worked as the director of health services for a summer camp for three years. Academically, I'm minoring in history and have also taken a wide variety of science electives.

I'm not too picky about where I'll be living during medical school but the east coast would be my first choice.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions. 🙂

 

[spicedmanna]

I'm going to be a senior in the fall and I'm beginning to work on my application. I just got back my April MCAT scores and I'm hoping you might be able to offer some feedback on schools that would be a reasonable bet.

I have a science GPA of 3.2 and an overall GPA of 3.5. My MCAT was 8-PS, 7-BS, and 12-VR with a writing sample score of R. I have lots of clinical experience, science and non-science extracirriculars, and strong letters of recommendations from osteopathic physicians and a variety of professors.

What schools would everyone suggest I check out? PCOM's been a favorite of mine. I haven't checked out many of the others yet. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

Well, mtmedic86, this is sort of a difficult question to answer because your overall stats will probably be competitive for many osteopathic schools that don't have a strong in-state preference. Thus, a lot of this choice comes down to personal preference.

First of all, here is the resource you need to help you with your choice:

AACOM Guidebook of Osteopathic Medical Schools

Also, be sure to explore each COM's individual website for further and updated details, such as admissions statistics and mission statements.

Second, you will need to look at your stats and compare it with the average stats (GPA and MCAT) of the schools in which you are interested in applying. I might be stating the obvious here, but if your stats are in range with their averages, you probably stand a reasonable chance there, assuming that the school in question doesn't have a strong in-state preference.

Third, define the three or four absolute yesses and noes you have about the school you'd want to attend, if accepted. Come up with your own "mission statement," i.e., what you value and want to get out of your education at your ideal school. Carefully research each of the 20 or so schools and check them against your criteria. If you find a school that has a characteristic that matches one or more of your absolute noes, then you might, after some thoughtful consideration, scratch it tentitively off your list. Look for schools that align closely with what you find important, the more absolute yesses, the higher on your list it goes and so forth. I noticed that you stated that you liked PCOM. What are some of the characteristics that you like about PCOM? What other schools might have similar qualities?

Fourth, try to be geographically diverse. While location might be a criteria for you, try to cast as wide a net as is comfortable for you. Choosing schools across different areas will increase your chances. In choosing, make sure to carefully consider if the school in question has a strong in-state preference. Understand that your chances there may be diminished there, but it still would be worth applying to that school if you align strongly with it.

Fifth, look at the class threads, interview feedback, and do a search on the schools that you have on your list (or ones you have questions about) for further information that could help in your decision process. Use all the information you have available to you. Don't be afraid to ask questions about the schools, but make sure to do a search first.

Sixth, you should have more than a handful of schools on your list. The average applicant applied to around 6 schools. I applied to 10. I recommend applying somewhere in that range, more if you like. Get feedback on your list.

Seventh, take everything I said and your list with a grain of salt. Despite all the lovely points above, you should feel free to dispose of them and just follow your gut liberally in choosing a school to apply to. You may not know why now, but when you interview, you may be surprised that a school you didn't think you liked that much, you will actually fall in love with. Conversely, one of your top choices, after you interview there, might end up being a school you don't like that much. Thus, be liberal in choosing which schools to apply to. It's hard to get an accurate feel on paper.

Good luck!

BTW, my very biased opinion is that KCUMB should be on your list, even though it's in the midwest. 😀

 

[Animus]

Okay, here are my stats, since everyone else is throwing them up there. 3.34 overall GPA, 3.15 (I think I calculated it right...) science GPA at UMich. 31R MCAT (12P, 10B, 9V). 1 year membership in Alpha Phi Omega (community service frat) with 20 hours service [plus time for meetings and whatnot] per semester, nearly a year volunteering at a hospital for ~2hrs/week, shadowed 3 doctors (2 MDs, 1 DO which is writing me an LOR). Worked 2.5 years in an orthopedic office, but it was in high school and mostly clerical/checking patients in, so I'm not sure how much that matters.

I'm thinking of applying to MSUCOM, Nova, CCOM, KCUCOM, DMUCOM, and ACOM. Do I have a decent chance of getting into any of these schools?

Also, the DO writing my LOR is my cousin... is that going to be bad? I'm not close to him at all really, I actually have only met him a few times, but I'm a little worried that the admissions people will be like, "Oh they're related, this is BS" or something. Thoughts?

I think overall you look good. Gpa is a bit low however your MCAT was good so should make up for it. I think you should have a good shot at all of those schools, make sure to apply early!!! Does your coursin have the same last name? I do not think it will hurt, not sure about this though maybe someone will chime in that has that experience. My guess though is it can only be good really, make sure he explains what being a DO means though and you have a good answer for this. Committees will expect that since you are related to him you know what he does and more specifically a lot about being a DO. Other than that was your volunteer time at the hospital patient care related? Cause if not I would work on getting some patient care experience you can talk about I know some schools ask about that in interviews and care about that quite a bit.

Goodluck

Oh and because sometimes I forget this goes out to everyone applying:

IF YOU WANT A GOOD CHANCE APPLY EARLY, IF I FORGET TO SAY THAT IN SOMEONES RESPONSE KNOW THAT I MEANT TO SAY IT. APPLY EARLY!!!!

 

[Animus]

Thanks for the comments. I'm from Northern NJ. Just for a little additional background: I'm an EMT, President of EMS for my township, I work for a hospital training department, I spent a year shadowing a PCOM primary care doc and 4 years volunteering in an ED. I've also worked as the director of health services for a summer camp for three years. Academically, I'm minoring in history and have also taken a wide variety of science electives.

I'm not too picky about where I'll be living during medical school but the east coast would be my first choice.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions. 🙂

Lots of good eastcoast schools, like Spiced said just look them up. I know that a lot of people like PCOM and UNDMJ though so I would start there if I were you. I am attending PCOM so if you apply there maybe I will see you at your interview, goodluck.

 

[doinmybest5840]

I think overall you look good. Gpa is a bit low however your MCAT was good so should make up for it. I think you should have a good shot at all of those schools, make sure to apply early!!! Does your coursin have the same last name? I do not think it will hurt, not sure about this though maybe someone will chime in that has that experience. My guess though is it can only be good really, make sure he explains what being a DO means though and you have a good answer for this. Committees will expect that since you are related to him you know what he does and more specifically a lot about being a DO. Other than that was your volunteer time at the hospital patient care related? Cause if not I would work on getting some patient care experience you can talk about I know some schools ask about that in interviews and care about that quite a bit.

Goodluck

Oh and because sometimes I forget this goes out to everyone applying:

IF YOU WANT A GOOD CHANCE APPLY EARLY, IF I FORGET TO SAY THAT IN SOMEONES RESPONSE KNOW THAT I MEANT TO SAY IT. APPLY EARLY!!!!

My volunteer experience was working with patients. It wasn't really medically-related, though, more for morale. How long would you say the application takes to fill out? With MD schools (I'm applying to both) they posted theirs a month in advance so I've had time to work on it so I can turn it in the first day... but with DO, they post it and you can submit it as soon as you're done, right? I'm taking two classes right now, so I'm just worried about how quickly I can get the app done. Thanks!

 

[Animus]

My volunteer experience was working with patients. It wasn't really medically-related, though, more for morale. How long would you say the application takes to fill out? With MD schools (I'm applying to both) they posted theirs a month in advance so I've had time to work on it so I can turn it in the first day... but with DO, they post it and you can submit it as soon as you're done, right? I'm taking two classes right now, so I'm just worried about how quickly I can get the app done. Thanks!

All the questions are almost identical to the MD ones so it will just be like repeating everything you already did. Sorta a pain but its almost a copy paste just a slightly different format. I literally used my MD right next to the DO one and filled it out that way. You do not have to worry about having it in in the first few hours or anything. Just get it done within the month or so I would say.

 

[spicedmanna]

IF YOU WANT A GOOD CHANCE APPLY EARLY, IF I FORGET TO SAY THAT IN SOMEONES RESPONSE KNOW THAT I MEANT TO SAY IT. APPLY EARLY!!!!

QFT. 👍 👍

 

[sereen09]

Thanks to all those giving such sound advice! Hoping to benefit from the thread as well, in terms of feedback regarding my own "chances of acceptances." I'm taking the MCAT's for the first time mid-June. Unfortunately, I'm not expecting to do much better than mid-20's. Here are my other stats:

UGPA: 3.74
sGPA: 3.63

EC's:
-ER volunteer (2 yrs)
-Pharmaceutical Drug Study Intern/shadowed MD; LOR from MD (2 yrs)
-Currently shadowing a DO; LOR from DO
-Health and Safety Team Intern with the Red Cross (1 yr)
-Hospice Volunteer (1 yr)
-Will be doing a Primary Care Internship come the fall semester
-Leadership roles in 3 clubs (including a dance team, a diversity club, and a bio club)
-Research in Cancer Genetics lab (2 yrs); LOR from research Doc.

My biggest fear is a low MCAT score. What's the lowest I should still apply with considering my GPA and EC's?

Thank you in advance for the advice!

 

[Animus]

Thanks to all those giving such sound advice! Hoping to benefit from the thread as well, in terms of feedback regarding my own "chances of acceptances." I'm taking the MCAT's for the first time mid-June. Unfortunately, I'm not expecting to do much better than mid-20's. Here are my other stats:

UGPA: 3.74
sGPA: 3.63

EC's:
-ER volunteer (2 yrs)
-Pharmaceutical Drug Study Intern/shadowed MD; LOR from MD (2 yrs)
-Currently shadowing a DO; LOR from DO
-Health and Safety Team Intern with the Red Cross (1 yr)
-Hospice Volunteer (1 yr)
-Will be doing a Primary Care Internship come the fall semester
-Leadership roles in 3 clubs (including a dance team, a diversity club, and a bio club)
-Research in Cancer Genetics lab (2 yrs); LOR from research Doc.

My biggest fear is a low MCAT score. What's the lowest I should still apply with considering my GPA and EC's?

Thank you in advance for the advice!

Looks very solid to me, you have very good EC and a solid gpa. Not sure what to say about the low MCAT thing. Try your best, study hard and DO NOT stress too much. I would say you could get in with a 24 if it is 8s across. Try for nothing less than that and I really believe you can do better, always shoot for 30+.

Goodluck

 

[spicedmanna]

Thanks to all those giving such sound advice! Hoping to benefit from the thread as well, in terms of feedback regarding my own "chances of acceptances." I'm taking the MCAT's for the first time mid-June. Unfortunately, I'm not expecting to do much better than mid-20's. Here are my other stats:

UGPA: 3.74
sGPA: 3.63

EC's:
-ER volunteer (2 yrs)
-Pharmaceutical Drug Study Intern/shadowed MD; LOR from MD (2 yrs)
-Currently shadowing a DO; LOR from DO
-Health and Safety Team Intern with the Red Cross (1 yr)
-Hospice Volunteer (1 yr)
-Will be doing a Primary Care Internship come the fall semester
-Leadership roles in 3 clubs (including a dance team, a diversity club, and a bio club)
-Research in Cancer Genetics lab (2 yrs); LOR from research Doc.

My biggest fear is a low MCAT score. What's the lowest I should still apply with considering my GPA and EC's?

Thank you in advance for the advice!

Hi, sereen09,

You are looking good so far, but as with anyone who hasn't taken the MCAT yet, a lot rides on how well you do on that test. It's largely a myth that a good GPA can make up for a deficient MCAT and vise versa. In reality, there is some variability in how schools view these statistics, but in general, both are weighed quite strongly in the admissions process and thus both need to be as good as you can get them.

According to the AACOM Annual Statistical Report on Osteopathic Medical Education for 2006, the average MCAT for a osteopathic matriculant for the entering year of 2005 was 24.99, essentially a 25, and the average overall GPA was 3.44 (3.35 sGPA, 3.54 nsGPA). If you look at the data, the averages continue to rise, therefore, it is likely that this year's class had even higher averages. Therefore, it is logical to say that if you will be competitive overall with an MCAT score that is 25, or higher. Nevertheless, my recommendation is that you shoot for the high 20's, like 28. Obviously, your overall GPA and science GPA puts you in a good situation; good work. Now, just make sure to follow through with your MCAT. You don't want to be in a position to settle, so make sure you aim high on your MCAT. You don't have much time left to prepare, so whatever you are averaging now will give you some indication of how might do. I usually recommend that folks not take the MCAT unless they feel as ready as they can be. It's not a test you want to take multiple times. Make sure you are as prepared as you can be. I wish you luck.

After you know your MCAT score, you can take a look at the AACOM Guidebook for Osteopathic Medical School and the individual COM websites; there you can find the average numbers for each individual school's matriculants. It's a good idea to compare yourself against these statistics to get an overall feel for where you stand. Some schools consistantly have higher stats, like TCOM and COMP; in these schools, the averages for a matriculant are much higher than the national average. You will want to consider this when applying. Also, some schools give in-state applicants greater preference. Keep that in mind when choosing. In general, however, apply EARLY and BROADLY. Take a look at the guidelines I put up about picking schools to apply to.

Come back here after you take your MCAT and get your score back; let us know how you did. Good luck!

 

[sereen09]

thank you both for your prompt and thoughtful responses!

 

[krob]

Hello. I have a 26N on the Mcat and 3.4 Science GPA, 3.5 cumaltive. My father owns a pharmacy where I worked as a tech for a couple of years and then formed his internet division. Although I don't have a lot of medical research, when I started the internet pharmacy division I had to do a ton of research on Hippa and other pharmacy laws. Does that count? I've been really hammering away at a good personal statement and my ECs are good, lots of church stuff and I did serve an LDS mission to Brazil when I was 19. I am currently shadowing a DO and expect a good LOR from him. We're looking at DO schools and our instate allo. school, where do you think I should apply? So far I like DMU and KCOM but any other ideas would be good.... we were thinking of applying to 8 schools. (We = my wife and I).
Thanks
krob

 

[spicedmanna]

Hello. I have a 26N on the Mcat and 3.4 Science GPA, 3.5 cumaltive. My father owns a pharmacy where I worked as a tech for a couple of years and then formed his internet division. Although I don't have a lot of medical research, when I started the internet pharmacy division I had to do a ton of research on Hippa and other pharmacy laws. Does that count? I've been really hammering away at a good personal statement and my ECs are good, lots of church stuff and I did serve an LDS mission to Brazil when I was 19. I am currently shadowing a DO and expect a good LOR from him. We're looking at DO schools and our instate allo. school, where do you think I should apply? So far I like DMU and KCOM but any other ideas would be good.... we were thinking of applying to 8 schools. (We = my wife and I).
Thanks
krob

Hi, Krob,

The bottom line is that you are competitive for most osteopathic medical schools that don't have a strong instate preference. You might be a point or so away from the averages of some of the more stat-heavy schools/competitive schools, but I really don't think it's cause for concern, if you happen to be. Your pharmacy and IT work is certainly beneficial and they are good extracurricular experiences. However, it is also good to participate in some clinical experiences, where you are getting some direct patient exposure, if you haven't already done so. While this is not a formal requirement, per se, it is one of the most inquired about extracurricular activities in the medical school application process, so much so that it probably ought to be a requirement. Another extracurricular activity that holds some weight is volunteer and/or community service work. It looks like you may already have performed some volunteer and/or community service work through your church and through missions to Brazil; that's absolutely great, and it will be beneficial to you. If not, then this is a good area to do some work in. Many people will combine clinical experience with volunteer work, such as volunteering at a hospital, or through the Red Cross, or working as a volunteer EMT-B. Having both clinical experiences and volunteer work will further strengthen your application.

For guidance on which schools to apply to, please see my post on how to choose schools. For your convenience, I will list the link below:

Spicedmanna's Guide on Choosing Which Schools to Apply to

Good luck on your application process. Remember to apply EARLY.

 

[dr.kicia]

What? PCOM not good enough?

oh, it is acctually the other way around i am not good enough for PCOM😳

 

[krob]

thanks! I will definitely apply early