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What are some of the "Top" DO schools?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by JugglesMed, Apr 10, 2018.

  1. JugglesMed

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    I have used google but a lot of different sites offer different answers.

    From what I've gathered: PCOM, CCOM, KCOM, AZCOM.

    I plan to applies to these along with LECOM.

    Any opinions on your top DO Schools?
     
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  3. mixed_aladdin

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    every school that accepts me
     
  4. Goro

    Faculty 7+ Year Member

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    Ask five people, you're going to get six different answers.
    There are a few schools I CAN'T recommend.
    I also have a lower opinion of schools with required lecture attendance and dress codes.
     
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  5. JugglesMed

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    Man i wish they had an MSAR with all the info neatly organized haha. I would never want to attend a school with a dress code
     
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  6. Osminog

    Osminog Future Doctopus

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    Then cross LECOM off your list.
     
  7. JugglesMed

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    Oh did not know that. Thanks for the info. I plan on diving deep into each DO school in May once the semester is overs
     
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  8. radkat101

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    2018 Summary by College

    Look at the schools with a low percentage matching AOA. Some quality schools with a ton of home AOA spots like PCOM and OSUCOM will be outliers, but for the most part I think this is a pretty good way to get an idea of the quality of students in each program. People on these boards always repeat that there are no "tiers" of DO. The lines might not be clear cut, but when TCOM only sends 10% of students to AOA programs and LUCOM sends half, it becomes pretty obvious that some schools are providing better opportunities (or simply having higher standards) than others.
     
    #7 radkat101, Apr 10, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  9. CyrusHabs7695

    CyrusHabs7695 Go Habs Go...Next Year
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  10. Throwaway3214

    Throwaway3214 Minus the hot, triple the mess

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    Can you explain this? I've never seen this data before, why are over half of graduates apparently not applying to residency programs?
     
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  11. Isoval

    Isoval Studying. Badly.

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    What the poster you quoted is getting at is that there are DO schools that are matching almost indiscriminately from low- and mid-tier MD schools, while other DO schools are still using the AOA program positions as a crutch for lower-performing students.

    Simplification:
    AOA programs are generally seen to be less competitive than their ACGME counterparts because allopathic students (whom are generally more competitive students) are not allowed to compete for them. On the flip side, there are some DO schools that match almost all of their class using the ACGME (allopathic) match, thus showing that their students are equally as competitive as their allopathic colleagues.

    The schools matching large numbers of their students to ACGME programs will be the programs that are unaffected by (or even positively affected by) the merger in 2020, while the programs that rely heavily on the AOA match may be severely (adversely) affected.
     
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  12. Isoval

    Isoval Studying. Badly.

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    Just a general statement, not necessarily directed at you radkat:

    Don’t look too much into the “not matched” category for these lists. Many students will only apply to a few favorites in the AOA match prior to actually using the ACGME match (e.g. ranking three schools in AOA and fifteen in ACGME)
     
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  13. radkat101

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    Yeah it is pretty confusing but it can be assumed that the "non-participants" are all participating in the ACGME match since this is just AOA match data. The "percentage matched" is the percentage of the class that will be going to AOA programs (which happens before the ACGME match). The "non-match" category are students who did not match AOA and will either continue on to participate in the ACGME match (assuming they have programs they interviewed and ranked) or they will not match at all. The scariest combo is a school with a high AOA match rate AND a high non-match rate. When the merger is complete and all AOA programs have transitioned to ACGME, the programs that have historically relied heavily on the AOA match may be in trouble.

    Edit: Isoval also makes a good point about some of the students in the "non match" group only ranking a few of their favorite programs in the AOA with intentions to match ACGME if it doesn't pan out. This was actually my situation this year as I ranked the 1 AOA program I liked (didn't match) and then went on to match successfully in the ACGME match. Still, a really high "non-match" rate is a red flag because that will only apply to SOME of the applicants.
     
    #12 radkat101, Apr 10, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  14. parslea

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    Awww it's the next cycle and you're getting the same questions but faithfully answering them. Thank you for what you do on here for applicants!
     
  15. Durty-Trixxx

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    Looks like this discussion will quickly devolve into another "Why We Hate LECOM" thread ;)
     
  16. MyGrainAura

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    Anywhere but LUCOM


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
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  17. JugglesMed

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    I'm not really sure what some of this means, I'm just worried about getting into med school. So are you saying to pick schools with high ACGME rates?
     
  18. Isoval

    Isoval Studying. Badly.

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    Yes, unless they’re the schools mentioned with a high number of home AOA positions.
     
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  19. radkat101

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    I'm not necessarily saying to go to some and not others. This is just the best data we have for how individual DO schools perform in the match. This is pretty much the best quality indicator we have unfortunately, since most DO schools don't report their match lists.
     
  20. feeling-dizzy

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    "Top" and "DO" schools do not come together. They all grouped together as DO schools, which would give you DO degree at the end.
     
  21. CyrusHabs7695

    CyrusHabs7695 Go Habs Go...Next Year
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    Yeah, Harvard and UNLV also both give you MD degrees at the end and I think there is a little difference between them.

    There are definitely differences between the more established schools and the new ones
     
  22. DrMcCoyDO

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    Not so much; the DO schools that give you research opportunities without having to cold call everyone and their grandma and the ones that have regular rotations at hospitals with residency programs are definitely superior to schools that force you to pretty much wing it in both of those categories.
     
    #21 DrMcCoyDO, Apr 11, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  23. CoomassieBlue57

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    This is a negligent statement. When comparing MD vs DO school, yes DO schools are grouped together, but there are certain characteristics to look at when choosing one DO school over another DO school i.e.
    - Mandatory attendence
    - Recorded lectures
    - Least amount of mandatory group study
    - An administration that responds to constructive criticism
    - Rotations at residency accredited hospitals
    - Number of electives
    - Dress code in pre-clinical years
    - On campus research opportunities
    - Off campus research connections
     
  24. ortnakas

    ortnakas DO PGY-1
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    :beat:

    Best of luck, OP, but please— use the search button.

    @Goro you and your adcom colleagues are wonderful for coming back here and answering the same questions year after year. Props to you all.
     
  25. MyGrainAura

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    -Gives you a degree that lets you practice medicine in the U.S.
    -Price
    -Price
    -Price
    -Price


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
  26. Isoval

    Isoval Studying. Badly.

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    There are gaps between DO school quality as wide as the ocean.

    Don't kid yourself.
     
  27. DelayedGratification

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    Your top DO school is first and foremost the one you get accepted to.
     
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  28. Rooster Booster

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    That's
    what I have heard as well - some big differences.
     
  29. Ho0v-man

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    Go to the cheapest one without mandatory attendance. Nothing else matters. DO schools are more similar than they are different and no matter where you apply, at the end of the day your “just a DO.”

    That being said, as much as i wanted that cheap tuition at lecom, i knew i couldn’t stand that dress code and insane administration.
     
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  30. Chibucks15

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    While nationally that's true, I have noticed that the 'established' DO schools make a positive difference regionally. Like if you apply close to your school its more of a known commodity. From what I've been told by docs and seen instances of on here.

    At the same time though, if you're trying to go to Cali or Boston, you'll just be a DO regardless
     
  31. Isoval

    Isoval Studying. Badly.

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    The same argument applies to MD schools.

    CUSM has about as much in common with Harvard as Touro-NY has with MSUCOM.
     
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  32. Ho0v-man

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    I get what youre saying, but its minimal at best. Students from new schools and old are matching at the same places for the most part. The only advantage to a “higher tier” DO school may be having some home programs to match into. Thats about it though.
     
  33. Chibucks15

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    Eh I've noticed name recognition in the midwest for DMU, CCOM, KCU but I know literally nothing outside of the heartland though
     
  34. Ho0v-man

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    We share a heartland so hopefully youre right.
     
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  35. radkat101

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    The stats we have available just don't support this though (see the chart I posted earlier). There are real discrepancies between the schools that have existed for years. There are a handful of established schools that routinely send the majority of their class to established ACGME programs (nothing to do with having home spots) which is a big deal with the merger almost complete. Some of the lists posted in the match thread this year were almost entirely AOA or formerly AOA programs. Sure, the overall match rates are pretty similar but that doesn't mean everyone is happy with their result.
     
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  36. Ho0v-man

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    You misunderstand. If your home program has a program (i.e. ortho) that puts you at an advantage over the vast majority DO students who will never see a residency until 4th year.

    Its not anything to do with the name or anything. But if you want rotate through anesthesia at an away, maybe they’d be impressed with your ability to actually perform in the OR and the research you did with one of the residents. Thats all.

    These are minor advantages that do not eclipse tuition savings in any remote way.
     
  37. Mad Jack

    Mad Jack Critically Caring
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    Mandatory dress code sounds bad but then again I've been on a mandatory dress code of one form or another for the last two years because every rotation seems to have their own thing and idgaf so maybe it's not that big a deal. Dress codes sound terrible but they really aren't that bad, and I say this as a guy that plans to practice looking as ridiculously flamboyant as possible
     
  38. radkat101

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    I get what you are saying in regards to individual competitive specialties, but that's not how I nor anyone should judge a program. Every school will have a group of amazing students who will match whatever they want. You should be paying attention to the specialties with big numbers matching (especially IM. This is all I look at.) and see where these people are going. Any "home" programs affiliated with DO schools would be AOA/formerly AOA programs (as far as I know) so they would be AOA matches anyway. This is not an advantage if you're just considering how many people went to ACGME programs.
     
  39. Chibucks15

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    While that's true for like OSU and maybe KCU, DMU doesn't have a home program and send some people to some solid places. Just throwing that out there. In the grand scheme of things the difference isn't huge regardless but I do think there is a difference between old and new schools (except for RVU...apparently they kick ass right outta the gate)
     
  40. Ho0v-man

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    What you dont seem to realize, is that any match in the acgme is due to the students performance. Not the schools name.
     
  41. AnatomyGrey12

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    To build off of this I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the majority of the best DO matches are concentrated at the older, more established schools with higher acadenic standards for acceptance.

    School name doesn’t mean jack coming from a DO school, but some schools will have better resources/advising than others.
     
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  42. radkat101

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    Well yeah. The OPs question was "what are some of the top DO schools?". I think high acceptance stats, high performing students, and overall good matches are good ways of determining the better ones . It's also probably not much coincidence that a lot of these higher performing schools also have better clinical and research opportunities for students and encourage the class to take USMLE. Not sure how this isn't relevant to OPs question. Over time, what factors do you think contribute to a school's name recognition anyways?
     
  43. Goro

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    Well, to qualify these, med schools are known feeders to certain residencies in the same way that UG schools are feeders to med schools.

    Hence, the grads of a school like, say, DMU are a known quantity and quality to certain PDs (most probably in and around Iowa) and they have a better chance of matching than, say, someone from PacNW at those programs, but less of a chance than, say in FL, where Nova and LECOM-B grads are the knowns. My own kids have very good chances of staying in state, which is what most of them want to do, and the CA kids here have very good odds of getting back to CA.

    So no, the DMU name will not have the same cachet as, say, U Penn, but to paraphrase Tip O'Neill, "all matches are local".
     
  44. fldoctorgirl

    fldoctorgirl MS1 transplanted from the beach to the midwest

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    Would it be better, then, to attend a school you like less/has a worse reputation but is located in your home state than to go out of state for match purposes? Just curious how this works-- I'm going OOS and am not gung-ho on matching back home, just curious.
     
  45. Goro

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    I don't think that one should do it, unless one has powerful reasons for staying close to home. I think that all SDNers should strive to do as best as they can in their choices.
     
  46. Ho0v-man

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    Thats what you dont get. Name isnt going very far. Im sure you can find a small exception somewhere if you scour this site. But those exceptions just prove the rule.

    There are programs that take DOs and programs that dont. Those programs dont care if you come from xcom or ycom once you get out of your geographic area of your school. They care about your board score. Your score is entirely on you as your school just makes sure you can pass comlex. Everything else is on you. You get letters from acgme programs likely not affiliated with the school. Theres an argument to be made for research opportunities i suppose, but thats not a reason to pick one school over another unless you love research and absolutely have to do it.
     
  47. DelayedGratification

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    Xenia College of Osteopathic Medicine?
     
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  48. radkat101

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    There's nothing that you are saying that I "don't get". My idea of what defines a top school is just different from yours and I didn't approach this thread by trying to identify the schools that would guarantee an impressive match because you're right in that it doesn't really work that way. With DO schools popping up all over the place I just think applicants should acknowledge the established schools that are maintaining at least some standards instead of just lumping them in with the newest abandoned strip mall school and declaring they're all the same. You're ultimately right that you can go to any school and work hard and have decent opportunities. I'm just trying to give credit where credit's due when we have real evidence of match discrepancies. I think most people take this into account when judging a place, and over time this could certainly lead to residencies having opinions about certain schools when there's so many new ones they've never heard of. I agree that outside of the geographic area of your school no residency really cares where you went. But I've been through the match and I also think being near home for residency is actually really important to a lot of students and going to a school with name recognition in the state/ geographic area is a pretty big deal.
     
  49. Adrenaline Junky

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    Anybody got an opinion on NSUCOM?
     
  50. DelayedGratification

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    generally regarded as one of the better DO schools, matches well, beautiful area. It remains to be seen how or if it will change with the new MD program and new campus being built.
     
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  51. Natural Killer Cell

    Natural Killer Cell Go Blue! Go...Green?

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    USNews should just make an osteopathic ranking. There are enough schools now and enough disparity between them, and it'll give PDs reason to not just lump everything into one group. Plus, we can finally be spared from these constant threads.

    Anyway, if I was a current applicant and could go to any DO and tuition didn't matter, my top three would be my school (MSU), Oklahoma State, and Ohio University.
     
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