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Thank you!
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What are some of the "Top" DO schools?
- Thread starter JugglesMed
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I remember Goro mentioning he could not recommend NSUCOM anymore. What was the reason in regards to that if anyone remembers?
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~86% first time pass rate for COMLEX 1 in most recent data. I think also this is in the context of a years-long downward trend.
While that data is definitely worrying, it also seems like NSU has solid rotations and excellent (for DO schools) research opportunities. I don't go there though. Just what I have read on here.
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OSU is at 83 and 77 the year before, but everyone raves on them
OSU was in the process of getting their teaching hospital set up with the merger, as well as changing their curriculum for pre-clinicals for those years. Their most recent class was reported to have a 97% first time pass rate. OSU also has had a 100% residency match rate for their graduates for three out of the four most recent cycles, with the fourth being a 99% match rate. That's higher than the average MD program, which kinda lends credit as to why everyone loves OSU, the best medical schools (especially D.O. schools) are the ones that can get you into a residency program.
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That is a mostly fair point though they do have a medical center with its own GME to fall back on while I am not aware that NSU does. Regardless, those are low COMLEX pass rates for both schools. I wonder if the negative impact on students is similar at both schools (as I implied, I think it might be less of an issue at the school with its own GME, though that certainly doesn't completely mitigate the issue of generally poor performance on critical tests).
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Also, large numbers of students failing classes and remediating either the course or the entire year.
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Thee Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific. Pomona, CA
A
AnatomyGrey12
Recent class had a 97% pass rate.
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Is WESTUCOMP including both Pomona and Lebanon? Are there any statistics separating the two schools?
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deleted446889
Are there any true P/F DO schools? That's far more important to me than the prestige.
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I agree with @Goro There is really no published "tier" or "rank" for DO schools from my experience like there is for MD schools. However, when making a list (if you have the stats of course) I would choose DO programs that are most established, meaning they have been around for awhile and have had time to not only develop their curricula but develop relationships and a rep with PDs at residency programs. You can look at match rate, board pass rates, and where the students are matching (more students matching ACGME than AOA, competitiveness of specialty etc). In my opinion, CCOM, KCU, Western, PCOM, DMU, RowanSOM (UMDNJ-SOM), NYCOM are very well established for the most part. So is MSU-COM, but it may not be a wise choice if OOS due to cost and with the Larry Nassar case I am not sure how that is affecting their rep
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I really second the notion that a major ranking source like US News should just rank the DO schools so some common standard can begin to develop over time. And I mean info accessible for people not in the field. I know it’ll be riddled with biases and inaccuracy but who cares?
DO school tiers do 100% exist. I had an IV at one school that I couldn’t help but think was downright bunky AF once I had been on campus of a more established school.
But seriously if someone just made a website and did their personal opinionated ranking...you’d get 100% real web traffic. If there is internet data available on SDN threads, I bet DO school ranking related ones would be up there.
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DO school tiers do 100% exist. I had an IV at one school that I couldn’t help but think was downright bunky AF once I had been on campus of a more established school.
But seriously if someone just made a website and did their personal opinionated ranking...you’d get 100% real web traffic. If there is internet data available on SDN threads, I bet DO school ranking related ones would be up there.
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If you can, avoid brand new schools or schools just starting a new curriculum. That involves much face palming and commitees to re-hash exam questions. Professors will start each lecture with “ well I usually have 4 hours for this topic, but now I have 30 mins... so here goes..”
That being said, get into any school that you can. It is what you make of it. First Aid USMLE step 1 and learn from your OMT professors.
That being said, get into any school that you can. It is what you make of it. First Aid USMLE step 1 and learn from your OMT professors.
None. There is no such thing as a "top" DO school. They are all low tier and the name of one school over another means nothing in the real world. Even the newer schools are matching people in the same places as the older ones, so I really have a hard time buying the idea that there is any real difference between schools other than location and cost of living.
In my opinion, go to the school that has the least OMM focus and the one that is near research opportunities (if you want to do research).
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Do you really think the difference in the specialties/locations students match into really has nothing to do with the school? Just curious. There are huge differences from one DO program to another when it comes to matching for residency... just take a look at VCOM-Carolinas for last year and any older/established DO school. Was VCOM just exceptionally good at picking students who want to do primary care, or do their students have a real problem matching into any non primary care specialty, even compared with other DO programs?
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The match is such an individualized process and without knowing exactly how each person applied (to what specialties, etc) and what their applications looked like, match lists are utterly useless. There are top of the class people who want to do rural FM and vice versa. In my opinion the competitiveness (tier?) of DO schools is more reflected in their entrance stats than their match lists. I never understand why the match list thing gets so overblown on here
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It's the only thing we have to judge school outcomes based on as pre-meds, I suppose.
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I guess...but realistically unless you're at an 'established' DO school (and even then the advantage is negligible) most things come down to your own stats anyway. And even then most of the established schools have entry stats pretty much on par with lower/mid MD. Personally I believe getting good scores is more reflective of the students you admit rather than the curriculum taught. People with higher entry scores tend to be the ones who are driven and able to retain information at a higher clip. Not always the case but mostly.
Everyone's teaching you the same stuff at every school and nowadays with all the resources out there it's a hugely self-driven process. Going to a certain school wont necessarily guarantee you any specific step scores, or anything like that. Basically bust your butt regardless of where you get in and you have a shot. (provided you don't want to be super competitive things, in which case you should improve your app to go MD).
I don't mean to be directing straight at you...meant more as a PSA to the passers-by on the thread
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What he (or she) said^^. For reference, i go to a very well “established” osteopathic school and our match list is indistinguishable from acom or cusom (just listing new schools with match lists i remember, not trying to disparage). Match lists are little more than tea leaves. I used to over read them too admitedly. Then i got into school with some really exceptional folks who want to go into primary care/low competition fields. This process is super individualized. VCOM-CC doesnt have any advantages/ disadvantages over my school aside from maybe i have a slight advantage for matching at my home hospital. If they have one, im probably at a slight disadvantage matching to their programs. No big disparity, really.
I’d still recommend going to an older school vs a brand new one just bc of the unknowns of the curriculum. But after a school goes through a few matches the growing pains are probably over. After that, focus on things like mandatory attendance, geographic preference, tuition, etc. Those are all much more important than whether or not its “established”.
I’d still recommend going to an older school vs a brand new one just bc of the unknowns of the curriculum. But after a school goes through a few matches the growing pains are probably over. After that, focus on things like mandatory attendance, geographic preference, tuition, etc. Those are all much more important than whether or not its “established”.
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Also, as an aside, did you ever interview at a vcom? I did. They are VERY primary care or GTFO. So much so that 4th year is a ton of mandatory rural PC. They push FM hard even by DO standards.
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No, this is perfect. I don't mind it being directed at me; I'm just having anxiety about going DO. I tend to test very well and I'm planning on being aggressive about seeking out opportunities to improve my residency apps like research, community service, etc. so I'm just constantly looking for reassurance that I'm not shooting myself in the foot. I'm not currently planning on a super competitive specialty, but we all know people's minds can change...
I did. They were my first acceptance, and the cheapest school I've been accepted to by a mile. Also the place I want to live the least, but still - I'd probably save at least $100k if I went there over my favorite acceptance, so I'm still somewhat undecided. My husband makes enough that we'd have to take out zero cost of living loans there... but I'm quite sure both of us would be happy living near my favorite acceptance because it's tentatively where we'd like to live long term.
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Honestly I get that you're anxious about it...it makes sense to be. But as long as you work like crazy and actively seek out opportunities then you'll have a chance. It won't be at harvard or the top of the top, but you'll get where you wanna be. I know people in my class going all over the country this summer for research opportunities on both coasts and southwest...just look for them and apply you never know. Community service usually isn't an issue and I've been told to focus on one thing and show commitment to that rather than doing 1000 separate, one time events. Don't overload with that.
TLDR...as long as you aren't trying to be an academic doc in the ivory tower or trying to do the super competitive stuff that every medical student has a tough time matching into (MD/DO) then you'll be alright with hard work
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Then I’d go there providing that area has 3rd year rotations and residencies in your preferred area. Just remember that 100k ain’t giving you a magic advantage residency app time. But theres something to be said about being happy with your location.
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Hi @Goro , I'm curious, can you expand on your opinion (and/or reasoning) on schools that have required lecture attendance and dress codes?
Not specifically LECOM, VCOM does this as well. They say it is part of their "professional atmosphere" and that the dress code is unlikely to change.
I'm not sure if the mandatory attendance stuff is likely to change either and if this may be based on previous evidence from those schools and their students' performance, but many schools record non-mandatory lectures for students to consume at their own pace within a time-frame. I know it wouldn't be the end of the world, but I sort of feel like I'd be moving back to high school. I'd just like to hear a faculty member's perspective on this, thanks!
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AnatomyGrey12
A dress code is inconsequential honestly. We have a pseudo dress code and it honestly isn’t a big deal. On the other hand mandatory attendanceis a deal breaker. If I was forced to go to every class I would drop out and reapply. Class is a huge time suck.
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Their dress code isn't particularly bad I think, it's like minimum of a collared shirt, khaki slacks, nice shoes, etc. so it's an annoyance compared to other schools without mandated dress codes.
I'm someone that always went to every class during undergraduate so I have no problem attending class, but it might be nice to miss my 8am lecture and watch the recording afterwards or something (VCOM's schedule is built around an 8am to 5pm day Monday through Friday
). Also to be honest, it's nice after the first few weeks of class at college when 50% of the enrolled students stop showing up to lecture and suddenly things aren't too cramped and I don't mind asking questions, etc.
It's not necessarily just mandatory attendance, but it's the combination of mandatory attendance, a dress code, AND their very intense schedule of 8am to 5pm, 5 days a week. If I want to go to the gym and eat dinner after class, I don't see how I'll get more than an hour or two to study at night tops, for 8 hours of class that day.
It seems like lots of MD schools only go 4 days per week and have a lot more independent study time, with half days, etc... Maybe that is based on the new 2015 HHMI curriculum recommendations that it doesn't seem VCOM is adopting.
VCOM seems to have a good reputation, but I feel like they're bludgeoning their students for no reason.
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AnatomyGrey12
Their dress code isn't particularly bad I think, it's like minimum of a collared shirt, khaki slacks, nice shoes, etc. so it's an annoyance compared to other schools without mandated dress codes.
I'm someone that always went to every class during undergraduate so I have no problem attending class, but it might be nice to miss my 8am lecture and watch the recording afterwards or something (VCOM's schedule is built around an 8am to 5pm day Monday through Friday
So it's not necessarily mandatory attendance, but it's the combination of mandatory attendance, a dress code, AND their very intense schedule of 8am to 5pm, five days a week. If I want to go to the gym and eat dinner after class, I don't see how I'll get more than an hour or two to study at night tops, for 8 hours of class that day. It seems like lots of MD schools only go 4 days per week and have a lot more independent study time, with half days, etc... Maybe that is based on the new 2015 HHMI curriculum recommendations that it doesn't seem VCOM is adopting.
VCOM seems to have a good reputation, but I feel like they're bludgeoning their students for no reason.
You literally just described what I view is hell. 8-5 every day with mandatory attendance? Sounds like a great way to learn exactly nothing.
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Yes, it concerns me that I would go home exhausted each night with no time to process things before the next day. I have an acceptance there and am on other wait-lists, so if it's my only chance to be a doctor, I'll take it, but I'm concerned.
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I have a very low opinion of dress codes, and an even lower opinion of required lecture attendance.
As mentioned above schools having the former are trying to instill a professional attitude.
For the latter, theirs heads are stuck in the early 20th Century. Adult learners can figure out how best to learn, and the sage on the stage method is not as good as people think it is. Active learning is far better than passive, which is what lecturing is.
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I believe theres a thread out there I contributed to
The idea of having different tiers of osteopathic medical schools made my decision on which school to attend very difficult and costly (seat deposits). The argument of ranking newer DO schools lowest has its flaws. I was fortunate to have multiple interviews and acceptances from both established and newer programs. I made my decision based on my interview experience. It seemed to me that the newer schools that had successful match rates were more in tune with the upcoming merger. The school I chose presented their students usmle scores, their focus on board preparation, and the research opportunities. They also did not solely focus on primary care, but on the shortage of specific specialties withing that state. The more established schools never addressed the merger, mentioned research in passing and was all and only primary care focused. All that to say, I would never write off newer schools simply because they have not been "established", w.e that even means.
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Both have a very strong reputation when it comes to DO schools. Can't go wrong with either-Very established. There are probably threads out there comparing
Both are pretty much around the same reputation wise. CCOM probably carries slightly more weight in Chicago. CCOM's tuition thoooooooo
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truee. Nothing beats MSU-COMs OOS tuition though lmao highway robbery (~90K)
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Totally agree. Even students at new DO programs can match really well if they work hard and play their cards right. ACOM sent a kid to anesthesiology at JHU..
That said, I think important criteria to consider are clinical rotation sites average boards, and amount of 4th year away rotation time you can get. Then comes the little stuff like dress code etc.
