What do you AMGs REALLY think about IMGs?

[Integrity]

I was pointing out the massive fallacy in a previous poster's argument, who claimed that someone who does not attend a US school cannot make statements about US schools, while he/she freely made judgments about schools in other countries without ever having attended them.

Life lesson: arguing is futile. Ethics is BS. People support their selfish interests, regardless of AMG/IMG. Political system benefits single interests over the interests of silent majority, not just in medicine. People put their jobs before general libertarian attitudes, and society allows them to do so.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Rokitansky]

You're cry of this being ethically indefinsible is ridiculous. As a AMG child of FMG parents let me give you a little perspective. My parents came to this country 35 years ago. At that time, there was a shortage of physicians, and the number of residency positions outnumbered the number of American graduates. My parents, and the many FMG's accepted at that time, were not accepted out of the generosity of this country but because they served a purpose. WIth the number of US graduates approaching the number of US residencies I don't see that need being there anymore. So it's not "I got mine and screw the rest" but simply put a need was present and is no longer.

I would have far higher regard for your opinion if it were a bit better researched:

2009 Match Data from the NRMP (http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2009.pdf)
# of residency positions: 25,185
# of US seniors: 16,611
# of US grads: 677
-------------------------------
# of residency spots exceeding the # of US seniors and grads: 7,897

The number of US seniors is expected to rise by 21% by the year 2012 (http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2008/080501.htm). (For the sake of bolstering your argument let us ignore the issue of the projected physician shortages, which the mid-levels are using as an excuse to expand their scopes of practice.) Accounting for this projected increase and allowing for a similar increase in "grads" going through the match, while holding the number of residency spots the same, we can make the following extrapolations for the 2012 Match:
# of residency positions: 25,185
# of US seniors: 20,100
# of US grads: 819
--------------------------------------
# of residency spots exceeding the # of US seniors and grads: 4,266

In the year 1975, presumably the year when your FMG parents entered the match (http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata1984.pdf):
# of residency positions: ~16,000
# of US senior students: ~12,000
--------------------------------------
# of residency spots exceeding the # of US seniors and grads: 4,000

What was the point you were making?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I would have far higher regard for your opinion if it were a bit better researched:

2009 Match Data from the NRMP (http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2009.pdf)
# of residency positions: 25,185
# of US seniors: 16,611
# of US grads: 677
-------------------------------
# of residency spots exceeding the # of US seniors and grads: 7,897

The number of US seniors is expected to rise by 21% by the year 2012 (http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2008/080501.htm). (For the sake of bolstering your argument let us ignore the issue of the projected physician shortages, which the mid-levels are using as an excuse to expand their scopes of practice.) Accounting for this projected increase and allowing for a similar increase in "grads" going through the match, while holding the number of residency spots the same, we can make the following extrapolations for the 2012 Match:
# of residency positions: 25,185
# of US seniors: 20,100
# of US grads: 819
--------------------------------------
# of residency spots exceeding the # of US seniors and grads: 4,266

In the year 1975, presumably the year when your FMG parents entered the match (http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata1984.pdf):
# of residency positions: ~16,000
# of US senior students: ~12,000
--------------------------------------
# of residency spots exceeding the # of US seniors and grads: 4,000

What was the point you were making?

I disagree with many of your points... but damn, that's really that for this part of the discussion.

 

[Apollyon]

Can we step off our high horses now or should we compare the sizes of our appendages first?

Don't try to teach her. She has a PhD.

 

[Eta Carinae]

^ so that was uncalled for.

Yes, she does have a PhD but more importantly, she very nicely countered the arguments that were made.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Originally Posted by Rokitansky
Can we step off our high horses now or should we compare the sizes of our appendages first?

Is this a male thing, to always involve the phallus in discussion?

do discussions like this so readily alter phallic measurements?

I'm assuming so.

 

[Rokitansky]

Is this a male thing, to always involve the phallus in discussion?

do discussions like this so readily alter phallic measurements?

I'm assuming so.

The physical absence of the aforementioned appendages is what made my previous statement pointedly sarcastic. I am sorry you missed the point, perhaps you were tired when reading.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Originally Posted by Speculatrix
Your diploma mill is accountable and set to no standard. It is simply a conduit for people to take USMLE Step 1, then move on to rotations at community hospitals with widely-varying standards for teaching and curricula. I can most definitely "have it both ways", because I know that US schools have standards and ones in the Caribbean do not.

It is common knowledge that the risk any premed student assumes with these Caribbean diploma mills is that many are non-LCME accredited.

As stated here

And here

and here

and here

I could go on...

You attend at your own risk.

"high-horse" reference notwithstanding.

 

[Eta Carinae]

After interviewing, I DID NOT rank programs that I visited and found to have residents from caribbean diploma mills, as they've been aptly termed.

And if I found out this information beforehand, I simply didn't apply to them at all to begin with.

I think any PD would be foolhardy to assume the risk of a Carib. Certainly not in the same category as MDs from foreign med schools (which by the way typically have rigorous matriculation and passing standards)- even if they do require visas.

 

[Rokitansky]

After interviewing, I DID NOT rank programs that I visited and found to have residents from caribbean diploma mills, as they've been aptly termed.

And if I found out this information beforehand, I simply didn't apply to them at all to begin with.

I think any PD would be foolhardy to assume the risk of a Carib. Certainly not in the same category as MDs from foreign med schools (which by the way typically have rigorous matriculation and passing standards)- even if they do require visas.

I hope you enjoy working with mid-levels as your peers.

 

[Eta Carinae]

What I hope the strategy will continue to be is that programs select for quality ECFMG graduates of foreign med schools. I am glad there are visa provisions for this sort of recruitment and I hope it continues. As I've said before, one of my best professors in med school was a Foreign grad from Lebanon who filled a dire need for cardiologists at the VA.

That being said, preference should continue to be given to we US-MDs and also to, of course, US-DOs.

It is not in any program's interest to recruit a US-FMG (carib) over a non-US-IMG simply for false notions of solidarity.

This carib thing- I might as well hang a shingle outside the door of my home that reads, "med school".

 

[sugardad]

After interviewing, I DID NOT rank programs that I visited and found to have residents from caribbean diploma mills, as they've been aptly termed.

And if I found out this information beforehand, I simply didn't apply to them at all to begin with.

I think any PD would be foolhardy to assume the risk of a Carib. Certainly not in the same category as MDs from foreign med schools (which by the way typically have rigorous matriculation and passing standards)- even if they do require visas.

So you would rather not match than have a co-worker that went to a carribbean school?

 

[goosew]

Yes, I also found that statement to be nuts!..... Just because a program contains Carib. grads doesn't necessarily mean it's an inferior program!. (does it?)


And therefore should not be even considered/ranked? (how low on the list is of course up to the applicant)

 

[thedrjojo]

So you would rather not match than have a co-worker that went to a carribbean school?

With so many programs out there (except in uber competitive fields) you have to weed programs out one way or another... I am sure they found more than enough programs to apply to/received enough interviews that the rank list had a very high probability of matching... free will lets people make their own decisions. I just hate people imposing themselves on my free will to make my own decisions, and try not to impose unto others to make their own decisions. We can also have our opinions (if I was a PD, I would only take AMG's or FMG's but not US IMG's) but I think we shouldn't impose our opinions upon others, particularly private corps (cause until all docs are federal employees, then the hospitals hiring residents are private business and should be able to hire whoever they deem most qualified).

 

[sugardad]

With so many programs out there (except in uber competitive fields) you have to weed programs out one way or another... I am sure they found more than enough programs to apply to/received enough interviews that the rank list had a very high probability of matching... free will lets people make their own decisions. I just hate people imposing themselves on my free will to make my own decisions, and try not to impose unto others to make their own decisions. We can also have our opinions (if I was a PD, I would only take AMG's or FMG's but not US IMG's) but I think we shouldn't impose our opinions upon others, particularly private corps (cause until all docs are federal employees, then the hospitals hiring residents are private business and should be able to hire whoever they deem most qualified).

Yeah but once you have already interviewed at a place the fact that they have IMG's is really not a good reason to not rank it.

 

[Eta Carinae]

that's one of the missions on the interview- to get a closer look at a program, albeit for a day, and identify gross inadequacies that are unacceptable which may not have been obvious beforehand.

 

[sugardad]

that's one of the missions on the interview- to get a closer look at a program, albeit for a day, and identify gross inadequacies that are unacceptable which may not have been obvious beforehand.

And having an IMG resident is so unacceptable that you would not even rank it at the bottom of your list and would rather go unmatched ?

 

[Eta Carinae]

And having an IMG resident is so unacceptable that you would not even rank it at the bottom of your list and would rather go unmatched ?

Not an IMG but a carib

 

[Captopril]

Man IMGs jus tryin ta get paid, and ya'll is just a bunch of haterz

 

[Captopril]

.

 

[cyneuron]

I am not the best student here in my country so I doubt I will be the best resident in America either. I will definately do my best and I hope I will make at least an average resident.

If I have to be better than everyone else to be accepted it is not for me.

I know I am very privileged compared to all the IMGs from India etc. The conditions in their country are so bad they want to come to America at any price. I like it here in my country, conditions are OK. My reason for going to the US is that the medical education is even better and that I´d love to live in America for at least a few years. When I say live in America I mean live in a nice part of America. E.g. Cleveland is not for me...

well i guess you have no idea of how conditions are in India ?

recently there has been a massive increase in number of seats in Postgraduate medical courses and residents salary.

In my own college (one of top 5 in India) usually 40 out of 180 students used to go to USMLE, but this year hardly 15 are applying.

Try to know things before making a statement....

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

In the 2010 match there were 25,520 spots in the allopathic match. However, once you subtract out the preliminary and transitional spots there were 21,512. In the 2009 osteopathic match there were 2,435 total spots but after subtracting out the internship spots there were a 1,764 terminal DO spots. This means that the total of full fledged residency spots in the US amounts to about 23,276.

It won't be long before we have 18,000 students entering MD schools each year and another 5,000 students going off to DO schools in the US. Even with an attrition rate of 5% we'll have about 22,000 US medical school grads looking for residencies every year. This leaves about 1,400 spots for IMG's & FMG's.

In the 2010 match 1,619 US IMG's matched and 3,112 FMG's matched. Something's got to give and it's going to be FMG's getting shut out. There is simply no way that Medicare is going to fund residencies for FMG's when American medical school graduates are sitting around twiddling their thumbs without a residency. I do not care what any program director feels about FMGs. Every med school dean in the US will raise hell and the US Congress will put an end to funding residencies for FMGs.

 

[JeffLebowski]

well i guess you have no idea of how conditions are in India ?

recently there has been a massive increase in number of seats in Postgraduate medical courses and residents salary.

In my own college (one of top 5 in India) usually 40 out of 180 students used to go to USMLE, but this year hardly 15 are applying.

Try to know things before making a statement....

10-20% of graduating doctors in India fleeing the country for the U.S. is not good.

 

[exPCM]

In the 2010 match there were 25,520 spots in the allopathic match. However, once you subtract out the preliminary and transitional spots there were 21,512. In the 2009 osteopathic match there were 2,435 total spots but after subtracting out the internship spots there were a 1,764 terminal DO spots. This means that the total of full fledged residency spots in the US amounts to about 23,276.

It won't be long before we have 18,000 students entering MD schools each year and another 5,000 students going off to DO schools in the US. Even with an attrition rate of 5% we'll have about 22,000 US medical school grads looking for residencies every year. This leaves about 1,400 spots for IMG's & FMG's.

In the 2010 match 1,619 US IMG's matched and 3,112 FMG's matched. Something's got to give and it's going to be FMG's getting shut out. There is simply no way that Medicare is going to fund residencies for FMG's when American medical school graduates are sitting around twiddling their thumbs without a residency. I do not care what any program director feels about FMGs. Every med school dean in the US will raise hell and the US Congress will put an end to funding residencies for FMGs.

Good analysis except we are going to get up to almost 20000 US allopathic grads so we will actually have up to ~25000 US grads (20000 allopathic + 5000 osteopathic).

I would have far higher regard for your opinion if it were a bit better researched:

2009 Match Data from the NRMP (http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2009.pdf)
# of residency positions: 25,185
# of US seniors: 16,611
# of US grads: 677
-------------------------------
# of residency spots exceeding the # of US seniors and grads: 7,897

The number of US seniors is expected to rise by 21% by the year 2012 (http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2008/080501.htm). (For the sake of bolstering your argument let us ignore the issue of the projected physician shortages, which the mid-levels are using as an excuse to expand their scopes of practice.) Accounting for this projected increase and allowing for a similar increase in "grads" going through the match, while holding the number of residency spots the same, we can make the following extrapolations for the 2012 Match:
# of residency positions: 25,185
# of US seniors: 20,100
# of US grads: 819
--------------------------------------
# of residency spots exceeding the # of US seniors and grads: 4,266

In the year 1975, presumably the year when your FMG parents entered the match (http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata1984.pdf):
# of residency positions: ~16,000
# of US senior students: ~12,000
--------------------------------------
# of residency spots exceeding the # of US seniors and grads: 4,000

What was the point you were making?

Lousy analysis. You added the PGY1 and PGY2 spots together. Everyone has to do a PGY1 year before they do a PGY2 year.
Number of PGY1 spots was only 22427: see page 13 of pdf: http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2009.pdf
Also you did not account for all the DOs in the allopathic match. There are only enough DO residencies to accomodate about half of DO grads so the rest go into allopathic programs.

Final Point: We are going to rapidly approach parity between number of US grads and number of residency spots and the match will become more competitive each and every year.

 

[McLovin]

Not an IMG but a carib

I don't really want to get into a whole "thing", but thats an asanine statement to make.

McLovin out.

 

[thedrjojo]

In the 2010 match there were 25,520 spots in the allopathic match. However, once you subtract out the preliminary and transitional spots there were 21,512. In the 2009 osteopathic match there were 2,435 total spots but after subtracting out the internship spots there were a 1,764 terminal DO spots. This means that the total of full fledged residency spots in the US amounts to about 23,276.

It won't be long before we have 18,000 students entering MD schools each year and another 5,000 students going off to DO schools in the US. Even with an attrition rate of 5% we'll have about 22,000 US medical school grads looking for residencies every year. This leaves about 1,400 spots for IMG's & FMG's.

In the 2010 match 1,619 US IMG's matched and 3,112 FMG's matched. Something's got to give and it's going to be FMG's getting shut out. There is simply no way that Medicare is going to fund residencies for FMG's when American medical school graduates are sitting around twiddling their thumbs without a residency. I do not care what any program director feels about FMGs. Every med school dean in the US will raise hell and the US Congress will put an end to funding residencies for FMGs.

I disagree with this statement for 2 reasons:
1) The medicare funding goes for the training and utilization of the resident going FORWARD. It does not make one difference as far as the funding goes where that resident came from. As long as the are a competent and worth the money to the program, and that program provides the care for patients that the money was designed to deliver, I don't see any change because of where the funding comes from. You are looking at this from the wrong perspective - what is more important for medicare/programs/patient care - having the best resident, as deemed by the programs, for the position, or having a US graduate have the position?

2) The main reason for the increased class size in the US, although not necessarily stated, is to shut down/water down/decrease the caribbean medical schools, the US IMG's, and I would bet the biggest hit or push is going to be to eliminate their ability to enter the match before we close our borders to doctors from other countries.

I also think it would be hard/bad international PR to simply close off the borders to foreign doctors, as even these docs that return home become leaders of medicine in their countries and perpetuate the western model of medical education/medical practice in their home countries. The more sly or underhanded way to decrease FMG's getting residency spots is to decrease amounts of visas and/or make the process of aquiring a visa more difficult, timely, and expensive, which would serve as a deterant to applicants and programs, but still allow some to come and fill the need.

 

[sugardad]

In the 2010 match 1,619 US IMG's matched and 3,112 FMG's matched. Something's got to give and it's going to be FMG's getting shut out. There is simply no way that Medicare is going to fund residencies for FMG's when American medical school graduates are sitting around twiddling their thumbs without a residency. I do not care what any program director feels about FMGs. Every med school dean in the US will raise hell and the US Congress will put an end to funding residencies for FMGs.

I doubt anything will happen in congress. What would probably happen, if many students were going unmatched, is that schools would pressure their own programs to rank their own students highly and nor pre-match any IMG's

 

[medicalgas]

If Caltex and Toyota were to collude, such that Caltex would generate only just fuel to last in so many cars being manufactured by toyota---the american public would cry themselves hoarse at the travesty of justice, rape of free market economy and blatant caretelization and monopolization .

Poor sods, don't know how they are being shafted by nexus of AHA, AMA and LCME-----incidentally on the fear manufacturing of
'' american doctors for americans''' on the similar lines as the war to win hearts and minds and 'weapons of mass destruction'

How else can anyone justify Hospital directors masquerading as medical leaders , deciding on the number of medical doctors to be generated!!! What a farce.

Could AMA & AHA be the Lehman, Enron and Goldman of medical establishment.

 

[Eta Carinae]

I don't really want to get into a whole "thing", but thats an asanine statement to make.

McLovin out.

sorry your digital feelings were hurt by my refusal to train with you and your buds.

You want to know what's asinine, no imbecilic- I think it's imbecilic to assume the risk of a non-LCME accredited "medical school".

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

said the imbecile who went to a non-LCME accredited "medical" school.

Sorry but I refuse to train with you guys and I think PDs acknowledge as much.

Why such anger? If a carib graduate does well on the USMLE, passes 3rd/4th years in the US... why would you refuse to go to a program that would hire them?

 

[goosew]

Why such anger? If a carib graduate does well on the USMLE, passes 3rd/4th years in the US... why would you refuse to go to a program that would hire them?

Agreed... without namecalling, etc. why do you have such an issue with training beside a carib. grad.

(yes, i am one from SGU, and although i don't take offence to your statement, i'm curious to your reasoning).


and I don't think that PD's necessarily agree with you just considering the sheer number of carib. grads that are still being hired for PGY-1 positions.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Good analysis except we are going to get up to almost 20000 US allopathic grads so we will actually have up to ~25000 US grads (20000 allopathic + 5000 osteopathic).

Lousy analysis. You added the PGY1 and PGY2 spots together. Everyone has to do a PGY1 year before they do a PGY2 year.
Number of PGY1 spots was only 22427: see page 13 of pdf: http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2009.pdf
Also you did not account for all the DOs in the allopathic match. There are only enough DO residencies to accomodate about half of DO grads so the rest go into allopathic programs.

Final Point: We are going to rapidly approach parity between number of US grads and number of residency spots and the match will become more competitive each and every year.

QFT.

Good catch ex-PCM.

I love the thread aptly titled, "The coming residency bloodbath"

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I disagree with this statement for 2 reasons:
1) The medicare funding goes for the training and utilization of the resident going FORWARD. It does not make one difference as far as the funding goes where that resident came from. As long as the are a competent and worth the money to the program, and that program provides the care for patients that the money was designed to deliver, I don't see any change because of where the funding comes from. You are looking at this from the wrong perspective - what is more important for medicare/programs/patient care - having the best resident, as deemed by the programs, for the position, or having a US graduate have the position?

2) The main reason for the increased class size in the US, although not necessarily stated, is to shut down/water down/decrease the caribbean medical schools, the US IMG's, and I would bet the biggest hit or push is going to be to eliminate their ability to enter the match before we close our borders to doctors from other countries.

I also think it would be hard/bad international PR to simply close off the borders to foreign doctors, as even these docs that return home become leaders of medicine in their countries and perpetuate the western model of medical education/medical practice in their home countries. The more sly or underhanded way to decrease FMG's getting residency spots is to decrease amounts of visas and/or make the process of aquiring a visa more difficult, timely, and expensive, which would serve as a deterant to applicants and programs, but still allow some to come and fill the need.

As soon as the media start running stories about American medical school graduates in $400,000 of debt with no way to pay it off because they can't get a residency, the Congress will be running scared. They will choke off visas AND medicare funding for FMG residencies.

As far as international PR is concerned that will take a back seat to the bad DOMESTIC PR associated with significant physician deficits in the various states. It should be acknowledged that Americans have been carrying the world's research burden (basic and applied) for the last 40 years. I will repeat earlier posts, "We owe the world ZILCH".

Finally the expansion of medical school classes was initiated by state governments to get more of their own residents in medical practice in their own states. Look at the new medical school at El Paso. It's 95% instate. Yee Haw!!

 

[Eta Carinae]

Crappy programs take the best they can get - ...FMGs (as most AMGs and outstanding FMGs are not available to them). NO OFFENSE to anybody! Man, am I just saying obvious things?

NG, You are just saying obvious things.

I have no interest in PC-ness. I have every regard for veracity.

QFT.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Crappy programs will also assume the risk of a carrib.

I'm allergic to crappy programs

 

[goosew]

Although I don't agree with your reasonings (for obvious reasons I'm sure), I respect your right to your opinion!.

 

[Nerve Gas]

NG, You are just saying obvious things.

I have no interest in PC-ness. I have every regard for veracity.

QFT.

Crappy programs will also assume the risk of a carrib.

I'm allergic to crappy programs

η Car, i appreciate varacity. also, political correctness has become quite grotesque.. now, you better embrace PC-ness if you want to thrive in academia (i see you are post-docing at the moment).

 

[proven]

haha.. eta carinae .. ur "get off my lawn" video made me laugh for 5 minutes continously... literally.. lol .. m fmg tho.. i like ur lawn..

 

[exPCM]

haha.. eta carinae .. ur "get off my lawn" video made me laugh for 5 minutes continously... literally.. lol .. m fmg tho.. i like ur lawn..

Can you provide a link to the video?
I enjoy eta carinae's posts but I missed the post with this video.

 

[McLovin]

sorry your digital feelings were hurt by my refusal to train with you and your buds.

You want to know what's asinine, no imbecilic- I think it's imbecilic to assume the risk of a non-LCME accredited "medical school".

Williams College
Ohio State College of Medicine
Mayo Rochester IM
Mayo Pulmonary & CC (current fellow)

Nowhere in my education did I train outside the US, but I DID work with 1 or 2 Carribean trained physicians (one of my residents at OSU comes to mind) who were very good. Now perhaps a good deal who graduate from overseas are not, but again the one's i've met certainly pass muster.

Hence -- in my humble opinion -- to make a blanket statement like you did is asanine.

But like I said, I don't want to get into a whole "thing" over it.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Williams College
Ohio State College of Medicine
Mayo Rochester IM
Mayo Pulmonary & CC (current fellow)

Nowhere in my education did I train outside the US, but I DID work with 1 or 2 Carribean trained physicians (one of my residents at OSU comes to mind) who were very good. Now perhaps a good deal who graduate from overseas are not, but again the one's i've met certainly pass muster.

Hence -- in my humble opinion -- to make a blanket statement like you did is asanine.

But like I said, I don't want to get into a whole "thing" over it.

I wish you wouldn't *****ically lump caribs together with graduates from overseas. They are not in the same category.

If you choose to go to an unaccredited program, you are in the same category as those deranged and dimwitted simpletons who assumed mortgages they could not afford, with no real income, savings or assets and contributed to the economic meltdown from which we may never truly recover.

I REFUSE to train alongside such twits, your anecdote notwithstanding.

That is risky beyond reason and it brings into question the individual's judgment.

I am allergic to crappy programs and to unverifiable MD-degrees.

 

[smq123]

Just a reminder to keep it civil. Thanks.

 

[McLovin]

I wish you wouldn't *****ically lump caribs together with graduates from overseas. They are not in the same category.

If you choose to go to an unaccredited program, you are in the same category as those deranged and dimwitted simpletons who assumed mortgages they could not afford, with no real income, savings or assets and contributed to the economic meltdown from which we may never truly recover.

I REFUSE to train alongside such twits, your anecdote notwithstanding.

That is risky beyond reason and it brings into question the individual's judgment.

I am allergic to crappy programs and to unverifiable MD-degrees.

"*****ically". Ouch!

I'm not the one making asanine blanket statements. If your issue is with IMG's, then by your logic if Amato or Gattinoni were in a training program, you would have passed on it.

 

[Eta Carinae]

"*****ically". Ouch!

I'm not the one making asanine blanket statements. If your issue is with IMG's, then by your logic if Amato or Gattinoni were in a training program, you would have passed on it.

You might need these-






and then re-read below:

Originally Posted by Eta Carinae
I wish you wouldn't *****ically lump caribs together with graduates from overseas. They are not in the same category.

If you choose to go to an unaccredited program, you are in the same category as those deranged and dimwitted simpletons who assumed mortgages they could not afford, with no real income, savings or assets and contributed to the economic meltdown from which we may never truly recover.

I REFUSE to train alongside such twits, your anecdote notwithstanding.

That is risky beyond reason and it brings into question the individual's judgment.

I am allergic to crappy programs and to unverifiable MD-degrees.

 

[smq123]

Once again, please keep things civil. If the thread starts to head further downhill, it will be closed.

Thanks.

 

[Eta Carinae]

It's long run its course at this point if all that's left to do is defend carrib degrees.

FYI, I WILL be putting out that shingle at my front door that reads, "medical school"

 

[Eta Carinae]

Once again, please keep things civil. If the thread starts to head further downhill, it will be closed.

Thanks.

 

[McLovin]

well then I go back to my original statement that's its asanine to make a blanket statement that you wouldn't train at any program that accepts carribean grads.

My apologies for the confusion.Your response of "its *****ic to lump carribean grads with IMG's" to my anecdote of how their were several excellent carribean-trained residents at ohio state led me to believe you had a beef with all IMG's. My bad.

But my original statement stands.

You might need these-






and then re-read below:

 

[Eta Carinae]

well then I go back to my original statement that's its asanine to make a blanket statement that you wouldn't train at any program that accepts carribean grads.

My apologies for the confusion.Your response of "its *****ic to lump carribean grads with IMG's" to my anecdote of how their were several excellent carribean-trained residents at ohio state led me to believe you had a beef with all IMG's. My bad.

But my original statement stands.

You sound like a broken record.

Running out of things to say? Or is this just a symptom of Verbal tics.

In case you didn't catch it the first time, and I still stand by my statement:

I REFUSE TO TRAIN IN ANY PROGRAM THAT HAS CARIBS IN IT

You are welcome to throw yourself off a cliff with your opinion of that statement. It is mine, I'm entitled to it and I stand by it.

Since this is post-match, I'm glad I don't have to worry about it anymore.

PS: I made the font sufficiently large so you could see it this time.

 

[smq123]

Ok, that does it.

This thread has degenerated into a pointless back-and-forth between two people, with less and less insight, wit, and creativity with each post. If the users in question would like to continue this bickering, they can take it to PMs. I am closing the thread.