What jobs make more than doctors?

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From a purely financial standpoint, doctors are among the highest paid, although they are not the absolute highest paid. But you also get so much respect from the general public as a doctor that engineers and other professionals would not get. The world will keep spinning if there were no engineers, lawyers, politicians, etc. The world will stop if there were no doctors left. Doctors allow everything else to happen.

I actually do agree with the first part. Doctors are indeed highly paid even if you take the debt into account. There is a research done by UCBerkeley econ professor student on whether pursuing a MD is still worth it. In the end, he concluded that it is still one of the best investments out there.

https://www.econ.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/roth_nicholas.pdf

But about the part about world keep spinning without engieers,lawyer,etc, I completely disagree.

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even without rescaling to 40 hr/week - that's still ONLY 88k (not breaking 100k)

I'm a tutor and I would make more per year IF I had 40hr/week... I would literally make 102k/year (or 143k/year at 55 hr/week). I'm sure many 40 hr/week employee can pick up 15 hours around the place and make more than 88k.

ONLY 88k after taking out loans AND taxes?? Oh no. How will you live?

Take taxes out of any salary and it lowers it substantially..seems silly to include them here as if they are unique to doctors.
 
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If we're talking about Wealth then doctors don't make as much as you think. They have more debt than assets when they begin their jobs. Almost all of their 20's are spent in medical school and Residency. While a young engineer can make 90k as soon as he graduates with very minimal to no debt. Once he/she gets in their 30's if they worked hard they would have been promoted by now and have hell of a lot of experience. You get my point.

In what world? CompE/CompSci salaries are at the top end of starting salaries, and you'll barely hit $75k/year coming from a great engineering school like Penn State. http://www.engr.psu.edu/career/students/averagesalaries.aspx I mean you might be able to hit $90k if you have a degree from Stanford or MIT and get a job in a super high cost of living place like the Silicon Valley, but this is not the norm. Other engineering disciplines are closer to $50-60k/year starting, capping out at $100-120k/year by retirement.
 
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Are you sure?

GP/hospitalist Average salary = 200k
Tax Bracket for 2014 = 33% (now making 134k)
Mal Practice = 13k (now taking home 121k)
Work time = 55 hr/week (12 hour shifts, 240 days avg) so if I renorm this to 40hr/week (88k per year, the extra 15 hours/week is basically a second job)
Loans = let's say you are still on IBR and assume 15% of salary which costs 30k/year (take home 58k)

so.... while you are paying loans, tax, mal practice, overworking, you are REALLY taking home 58k... :/ that's half of my original salary working 8 days/month.

I would never go into medicine for the money - ever.
Every salary survey I've ever seen has given salary after malpractice, etc. Your tax figures are wrong because you're forgetting state and local taxes. It depends on where you live, but for a single person in my state, $200k/yr is roughly $124k/yr take-home. Few family medicine doctors are routinely working 12 hours a day, 5 days a week. Anyone who chooses to work those kind of hours is being ****ed. Hospitalist salaries are closer to $225-250k/year (link) and they might be working 7 on 7 off, 10-12 hours a day, or some variation of that -- about 42 hours/week on average.
 
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Everyone always says not to go into medicine for money because there are better ways to make money. I agree that going into medicine for the money or prestige would be one of the worst decisions ever but I'm curious to know what the other professions these days are that will make more than a medical doctor. Some people say engineers and some say business, however, the only field in business I can see actually beating out a doctor is investment banking. Even then, they have to work an absurd amount of hours.


Are you kidding yourself? Take a pole of 4th year medical students, and if the didn't go into it for prestige or money, they are LYING TO YOU. That is the BS answer we are trained to give upon entering medical school and during medical school interviews.

Prestige and money matter. If it did not, why is there not more medical students choosing family medicine as a specialty, one that pays a lower amount compared to others.
 
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In what world? CompE/CompSci salaries are at the top end of starting salaries, and you'll barely hit $75k/year coming from a great engineering school like Penn State. http://www.engr.psu.edu/career/students/averagesalaries.aspx I mean you might be able to hit $90k if you have a degree from Stanford or MIT and get a job in a super high cost of living place like the Silicon Valley, but this is not the norm. Other engineering disciplines are closer to $50-60k/year starting, capping out at $100-120k/year by retirement.

Or you work in oil.

Welcome to Texas.

"Petroleum Eng. BS Median Salary: 95K. High Salary: 120K"
 
Or you work in oil.

Welcome to Texas.

"Petroleum Eng. BS Median Salary: 95K. High Salary: 120K"
I've mentioned this before, but it depends on what they're doing. If they're working for an exploration/production company, it might not be so bad. If they're working for an oilfield services company, they're probably working neurosurgeon hours.
 
I've mentioned this before, but it depends on what they're doing. If they're working for an exploration/production company, it might not be so bad. If they're working for an oilfield services company, they're probably working neurosurgeon hours.

But it's not neurosurgeon work. It's not even quite investment banking work. Sure, it's not the 80s where petrol engineers left at noon to go to bars and stuff but it's not brain surgery.

Here is the easiest, fastest way to be rich in the United States (not mine, courtesy of my senior engineer buddy):

1. Go to UT Austin or TAMU and be on full scholarship/in-state tuition dollars.
2. Major in Petroleum Engineering
3. Get as close to a 4.0 as possible as a freshman so you can get first seat in your Co-Op.
4. Get an internship at an oil company the summer before 2nd year, get paid about 3-7K a month.
5. Co-Op during your sophomore year and be paid 3-5K.
6. Repeat internship cycle and keep moving up on internship quality ladder, if you can land internship with Banking firm.
7. Graduate with no debt, your major either paid for itself through internships or you pocket some money thanks to scholarships.
8. Get a Job paying 100K a year
9. Last key step: Marry another petrol engineer
10. BECOME AN EXPATRIATE FAMILY!!! TAX-FREE MONEY + BONUSES + ADVENTURE
11. Come back to US whenever and get an MBA.
12. Become a manager at oil company and make 300-600k depending on career position.

Millionaire by 30.
 
But it's not neurosurgeon work. It's not even quite investment banking work. Sure, it's not the 80s where petrol engineers left at noon to go to bars and stuff but it's not brain surgery.

Here is the easiest, fastest way to be rich in the United States (not mine, courtesy of my senior engineer buddy):

1. Go to UT Austin or TAMU and be on full scholarship/in-state tuition dollars.
2. Major in Petroleum Engineering
3. Get as close to a 4.0 as possible as a freshman so you can get first seat in your Co-Op.
4. Get an internship at an oil company the summer before 2nd year, get paid about 3-7K a month.
5. Co-Op during your sophomore year and be paid 3-5K.
6. Repeat internship cycle and keep moving up on internship quality ladder, if you can land internship with Banking firm.
7. Graduate with no debt, your major either paid for itself through internships or you pocket some money thanks to scholarships.
8. Get a Job paying 100K a year
9. Last key step: Marry another petrol engineer
10. BECOME AN EXPATRIATE FAMILY!!! TAX-FREE MONEY + BONUSES + ADVENTURE
11. Come back to US whenever and get an MBA.
12. Become a manager at oil company and make 300-600k depending on career position.

Millionaire by 30.

That's lame. I can do better:

1. Go to Harvard
2. Drop out
3. Start a business
4. Billionaire by 40
 
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Everyone always says not to go into medicine for money because there are better ways to make money. I agree that going into medicine for the money or prestige would be one of the worst decisions ever but I'm curious to know what the other professions these days are that will make more than a medical doctor. Some people say engineers and some say business, however, the only field in business I can see actually beating out a doctor is investment banking. Even then, they have to work an absurd amount of hours.




www.glassdoor.com

Positions to look up
Lawyers are also called attorneys, associates, counsel (or "of counsel"), partners. To get a fair idea of what attorneys make, it is essential that you look up law firms (or specific law firms in your area like Goodwin Procter, Wilmerhale, Bingham McCutchen, etc.) and search for the position of, "partner." Then consider those salaries along with your other findings.

Corporate managerial positions: Manager, director, vice president, president, chairman, chief operating officer, chief financial officer, etc. You can do this for any large business in your area in any field.

Finance (I'm not as familiar with this category. I'm trying to list positions in financial firms like Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Cantor Fitzgerald, etc.): Analyst, associate, trader, and the positions directly above.

Other: Real Estate Broker or Investor (If you live in a city, imagine buying properties at 2009 auction prices, perhaps on a loan from the bank, and then marking them up for sale today. Appraising skills can also help.) There might be some creative side options like counting cards/poker champion, cryptocurrency related, or investing well.
 
Meh, too hard.

I agree. Let's just go to med school instead, so much easier.

www.glassdoor.com

Positions to look up
Lawyers are also called attorneys, associates, counsel (or "of counsel"), partners. To get a fair idea of what attorneys make, it is essential that you look up law firms (or specific law firms in your area like Goodwin Procter, Wilmerhale, Bingham McCutchen, etc.) and search for the position of, "partner." Then consider those salaries along with your other findings.

Corporate managerial positions: Manager, director, vice president, president, chairman, chief operating officer, chief financial officer, etc. You can do this for any large business in your area in any field.

Finance (I'm not as familiar with this category. I'm trying to list positions in financial firms like Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Cantor Fitzgerald, etc.): Analyst, associate, trader, and the positions directly above.

Other: Real Estate Broker or Investor (If you live in a city, imagine buying properties at 2009 auction prices, perhaps on a loan from the bank, and then marking them up for sale today. Appraising skills can also help.) There might be some creative side options like counting cards/poker champion, cryptocurrency related, or investing well.

Yeah, sorry to break it to you but there are thousands of financial analysts and lawyers that are unemployed or make $30k.. Sure you can also become a CEO or CFO but if the company is worth anything, you're not going to get there until you hit at least middle age (if you're lucky). Flipping houses is probably not a safe career choice.
 
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www.glassdoor.com

Positions to look up
Lawyers are also called attorneys, associates, counsel (or "of counsel"), partners. To get a fair idea of what attorneys make, it is essential that you look up law firms (or specific law firms in your area like Goodwin Procter, Wilmerhale, Bingham McCutchen, etc.) and search for the position of, "partner." Then consider those salaries along with your other findings.

Corporate managerial positions: Manager, director, vice president, president, chairman, chief operating officer, chief financial officer, etc. You can do this for any large business in your area in any field.

Finance (I'm not as familiar with this category. I'm trying to list positions in financial firms like Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Cantor Fitzgerald, etc.): Analyst, associate, trader, and the positions directly above.

Other: Real Estate Broker or Investor (If you live in a city, imagine buying properties at 2009 auction prices, perhaps on a loan from the bank, and then marking them up for sale today. Appraising skills can also help.) There might be some creative side options like counting cards/poker champion, cryptocurrency related, or investing well.
And you're just going to waltz into Goldman Sachs?
 
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Professional lottery winners make way more than physicians.
 
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And you're just going to waltz into Goldman Sachs?

This is what pre-meds actually think. Or that they could have magically become a CFO a couple years after graduating if only they had been finance majors.

While the people that go into medicine are usually intelligent, ambitious, and motivated and could probably be successful in other fields, they also seem to think that it's incredibly easy. Chances are that if we weren't going to med school, most of us would be asking people if they'd like fries with that (at least for a little while).
 
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This is what pre-meds actually think. Or that they could have magically become a CFO a couple years after graduating if only they had been finance majors.

While the people that go into medicine are usually intelligent, ambitious, and motivated and could probably be successful in other fields, they also seem to think that it's incredibly easy. Chances are that if we weren't going to med school, most of us would be asking people if they'd like fries with that (at least for a little while).

speak for yourself.


As for your other point. It is right on. I'm really tired of the pre-meds who believe that they are smarter and more intelligent than everyone else.

I really, really, really respect doctors and the work they do. Yet, as a career choice, I don't think of medicine especially highly, as if it is on some kind of pedestal. In fact, I see medicine as a path for extremely risk averse people who are fairly smart and hard-working. You i) do well in school, ii) train for ages, then iii) work hard but make very good money. I am much more awed by entrepreneurs or others who follow a path, take huge risks, with no guarantee that they will be successful.
 
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http://www.businessinsider.com/be-a-software-programmer-not-a-doctor-2014-2
It's Better To Be A Software Programmer Than A Doctor In 2014

US News has released its list of the 100 best jobs in 2014, and the No. 1 job on the list is: software developer.
The work is meaningful, touching every aspect of our lives. It pays well. It is in demand in all parts of the country and doesn't require a lot of grad school to get started.

Software developers (sometimes called programmers) get paid an average $90,060, with the top 10 percent earning $138,880, according to the latest stats available from the Labor Department.

Plus, the Bureau of Labor Statistics predicts there will be nearly 140,000 brand-new software development jobs created before 2022, says the US News study.

If you can't be a software developer, your next bet is computer systems analyst, which is a job that deals with tech design, troubleshooting and analysis. The systems analyst role is morphing into something called a "data scientist," a new job title in huge demand thanks to the big data trend. A data scientist helps companies munch through massive amounts of information — like tweets, news articles and sales stats — to find business insights.

A computer systems analyst earns $83,800 on average, and $122,090 on the high end. Pay for this job will increase as demand skyrockets. The BLS predicts a whopping 24.5 percent growth for this job by 2022.

Both of these jobs are better than being a dentist or a doctor, US News says. In fact, here's the Top 5 best jobs, according to the report:

No. 1: Software developer

No. 2: Computer systems analyst

No. 3: Dentist

No. 4: Nurse practitioner

No. 5: Pharmacist

Doctor, by the way, is No. 8.

Here are the component measures and their weight in computing the overall score:

  • 10-Year Growth Volume (10 percent)
  • 10-Year Growth Percentage (10 percent)
  • Median Salary (30 percent)
  • Job Prospects (20 percent)
  • Employment Rate (20 percent)
  • Stress Level (5 percent)
  • Work-Life Balance (5 percent)

:thinking:
 
Neat article.

There are definitely huge advantages to working in software:
1. no liability & malpractice issues
2. less bureaucracy
3. more flexibility (working from home/ working evenings/ other parts of the world/ etc)
 
If there is one thing I can advice I can give people looking for a career is to not ever use US News lists and statistics for anything other than comedic relief.
 
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Neat article.

There are definitely huge advantages to working in software:
1. no liability & malpractice issues
2. less bureaucracy
3. more flexibility (working from home/ working evenings/ other parts of the world/ etc)
Yup it's so flexible that a guy in India can do it for 1/5 your salary.
 
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Yup it's so flexible that a guy in India can do it for 1/5 your salary.

All too common an argument.

There will always be well-paying jobs in this field here, and people with a strong work ethic (like many pre-meds) would be able to achieve being in the top 25% of software developers.
 
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All too common an argument.

There will always be well-paying jobs in this field here, and people with a strong work ethic (like many pre-meds) would be able to achieve being in the top 25% of software developers.
I wouldn't be so fast with making predictions for 10-20 years into the future. I honestly don't see how you think such salary is sustainable in a long-run when there is essentially no barriers to entry for people from other countries. This is just supply and demand and at current price (salary) the safest bet is that the supply will increase much faster than demand.
 
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All too common an argument.

There will always be well-paying jobs in this field here, and people with a strong work ethic (like many pre-meds) would be able to achieve being in the top 25% of software developers.

It depends on your interests and talent. For those looking to go into medicine for money, and you know who you are ;) , there might be better ROI elsewhere.
 
medicine is safe and pays well.

engineers can get paid well without all the debt/training but once they reach the age of 40, they could get replaced by incoming 20 year olds straight out of college or foreigners who are willing to do the same (maybe even better) job in India/China for 1/5th of your salary.
 
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Neat article.

There are definitely huge advantages to working in software:
1. no liability & malpractice issues
2. less bureaucracy
3. more flexibility (working from home/ working evenings/ other parts of the world/ etc)

Tell that to a software engineer at a defense contractor.
 
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An accountant I know makes 200k working 20 hours a week from home + full benefits and bonuses with guarantee raise every year. But it took them 30 years to reach that type of job.
 
Yup it's so flexible that a guy in India can do it for 1/5 your salary.
I wouldn't be so fast with making predictions for 10-20 years into the future. I honestly don't see how you think such salary is sustainable in a long-run when there is essentially no barriers to entry for people from other countries. This is just supply and demand and at current price (salary) the safest bet is that the supply will increase much faster than demand.
The jobs getting outsourced are code monkey jobs which are looked down upon by comp sci folks anyway. There's a reason why comp sci grads still get $65-90k starting salaries despite the existence of India and China which have had legions of programmers for over a decade. Let's not forget IT jobs either which can also pay very well. A sys admin at a major company is going to be clearing six figures, and outsourcing his job is about as easy as outsourcing an EM doc.

medicine is safe and pays well.

engineers can get paid well without all the debt/training but once they reach the age of 40, they could get replaced by incoming 20 year olds straight out of college or foreigners who are willing to do the same (maybe even better) job in India/China for 1/5th of your salary.
Old engineers and other tech professionals tend to have low job security because everything they learned when young is obsolete. That's why it's so important as a tech professional to never stop learning and keep up to date in your field (kind of like medicine). Some people do that and they have no problem staying employed even when they're older. Others refuse to do it and get booted once their original skill set is no longer relevant.


Now all that said job security in medicine is much higher than in comp sci. Reason being that medicine is almost impervious to economic shifts; doesn't matter if you're in a boom or a depression, consumer demand doesn't change (with some exceptions). Meanwhile comp sci is hyper sensitive to economic forces and always seems to have a new fad bubble just waiting to burst.
 
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The jobs getting outsourced are code monkey jobs which are looked down upon by comp sci folks anyway. There's a reason why comp sci grads still get $65-90k starting salaries despite the existence of India and China which have had legions of programmers for over a decade. Let's not forget IT jobs either which can also pay very well. A sys admin at a major company is going to be clearing six figures, and outsourcing his job is about as easy as outsourcing an EM doc.
This is true for the present. Given that the number of jobs we outsource for the most part is increasing, I wouldn't call a good job in programming immune to outsourcing in the near future. It's all about the bottom line and I don't see any insurmountable challenges in hiring foreigners for those positions to lessen the costs.
 
From a purely financial standpoint, doctors are among the highest paid, although they are not the absolute highest paid. But you also get so much respect from the general public as a doctor that engineers and other professionals would not get. The world will keep spinning if there were no engineers, lawyers, politicians, etc. The world will stop if there were no doctors left. Doctors allow everything else to happen.

The world has been spinning for a long long time. I'm sure there wasn't a white coat with a stethoscope sitting around making it spin.
 
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try hard in high school --> ivy league --> investment banking --> MBA --> private equity.

If you go to a target school and are a normal person investment banking is probably easier to get into than medical school and you are pretty much guaranteed to make more money throughout your life. Obviously high finance has plenty of downsides and many people with the opportunity to do either still may choose medicine, but if money is your main/only motive than, outside of creating something special, there is really nothing close to high finance.
 
try hard in high school --> ivy league --> investment banking --> MBA --> private equity.

If you go to a target school and are a normal person investment banking is probably easier to get into than medical school and you are pretty much guaranteed to make more money throughout your life. Obviously high finance has plenty of downsides and many people with the opportunity to do either still may choose medicine, but if money is your main/only motive than, outside of creating something special, there is really nothing close to high finance.

Pretty much correct, as long as you perform exceptionally well in the Ivy League school (3.5 minimum, 3.7-3.8 to have a decent shot).

That said, that profession is extraordinarily cutthroat and I bet that a vast majority of SDN users are unable to endure through that lifestyle.
 
Professional Science Masters Program after a Chem/Biochem/Biology UG.

Do well at your internship. You'll be 24ish making 80ish. Probably less stress than a Physician, and better ROI. Lots of upward mobility as well.
 
try hard in high school --> ivy league --> investment banking --> MBA --> private equity.

If you go to a target school and are a normal person investment banking is probably easier to get into than medical school and you are pretty much guaranteed to make more money throughout your life. Obviously high finance has plenty of downsides and many people with the opportunity to do either still may choose medicine, but if money is your main/only motive than, outside of creating something special, there is really nothing close to high finance.
The chances are very high that you won't make it and/or you won't make much more than 100-120k/year.. maybe 150.
 
That's what you start at....

No one goes into IB for the starting salary its the potential to make more down the line in tangential career paths.
 
I've chose not to pursue that for various reasons, but its naive to think that they don't make significantly more money.
 
try hard in high school --> ivy league --> investment banking --> MBA --> private equity.

If you go to a target school and are a normal person investment banking is probably easier to get into than medical school and you are pretty much guaranteed to make more money throughout your life. Obviously high finance has plenty of downsides and many people with the opportunity to do either still may choose medicine, but if money is your main/only motive than, outside of creating something special, there is really nothing close to high finance.

I really doubt that's true, at least for bulge bracket firms.
 
That's what you start at....

No one goes into IB for the starting salary its the potential to make more down the line in tangential career paths.
And having talked to IB guys before, the odds of success are low. The chances are very high that you'll be working neurosurgeon hours for family medicine money.
 
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Okay, okay I don't mean to start a huge debate on the difficult of entry or the financial compensation of IB vs medicine. Just realize the horror stories of neurosurgeon hours for family medicine is only what people do at the beginning in order to obtain much more lucrative positions afterwards. My comment about it being easier than med school if you're from a target is only my experience, definitely subjective, and could obviously be debated. The financial compensation is pretty easy to find info about online though.
 
Managing your money wisely will make you rich. I personally think there is no emotional difference between a person earning 175K compared to others earning 250k (assuming zero school debt both).
 
It depends strongly on the bank and the specific job within investment banking. Several groups within a few banks pay 140k+ in the 1st year and after two years send kids to 250k+ jobs for two years, after which time a million by 27 is probable, seeding a path where the sky is the limit.

Now whether another medicine is more rewarding is a different question entirely.
 
This is something you could ask Jenna Haze, Tori Black, Aletta Ocean, Faye Valentine, Kelsey Michaels, Alexis Texas, Chloe Morgan, Tommy Gunn, Lexington Steele, Shane Diesel, and Ron Jeremy.
 
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But it's not neurosurgeon work. It's not even quite investment banking work. Sure, it's not the 80s where petrol engineers left at noon to go to bars and stuff but it's not brain surgery.

I said field engineers. Talk to an MWD engineer at one of the big 3 and ask him how great his lifestyle is. Imagine sitting in a trailer on a well pad in the middle of no where for literally a week or two at a time, staring a computer monitors and babysitting drilling logs for 12-16 hours a day. Maybe your relief doesn't show up and your stuck there for another 12-16 hours. Maybe a downhole sensor dies and you're stuck outside in the frigid North Dakota winter or the infernal Texas summer until everything is pulled, rebuilt, and working, 30 hours later. The project finishes and you get a few days or a week off...unless another project starts ahead of schedule, in which case you're back in the field for another week or two round of eating ****.
 
This is something you could ask Jenna Haze, Tori Black, Aletta Ocean, Faye Valentine, Kelsey Michaels, Alexis Texas, Chloe Morgan, Tommy Gunn, Lexington Steele, Shane Diesel, and Ron Jeremy.

One of these things is not like the other...
 
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One of these things is not like the other...

What can I say - I love redheads.

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Jessica_Rabbit_by_themisskitty.jpg
 
Old thread with a bunch of great answers on the first page, but I'll throw my opinion in for posterity.

As a bunch of others have said, a great many jobs CAN make more than doctors. Very few of those DO it as frequently as the docs do.
 
Pretty much correct, as long as you perform exceptionally well in the Ivy League school (3.5 minimum, 3.7-3.8 to have a decent shot).

That said, that profession is extraordinarily cutthroat and I bet that a vast majority of SDN users are unable to endure through that lifestyle.

Purely anecdotal evidence, but that's what many of my formerly premed colleagues are now doing. They either stop halfway through the premed curriculum, salvage their gap, and go into IB/consulting or they finish the premed curriculum with a strong chance for a solid medical school acceptance .... and are recruited by firms like Bain for 200k/year right out of school.

I think that if you can make it to med school as a strong applicant, you can succeed in consulting or finance.
 
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Purely anecdotal evidence, but that's what many of my formerly premed colleagues are now doing. They either stop halfway through the premed curriculum, salvage their gap, and go into IB/consulting or they finish the premed curriculum with a strong chance for a solid medical school acceptance .... and are recruited by firms like Bain for 200k/year right out of school.

I think that if you can make it to med school as a strong applicant, you can succeed in consulting or finance.
Bain first year compensation is like $75k + 20% bonus. You need a top 20 education to even have a chance at landing these kinds of jobs, preferably Ivy league.
 
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