What's the average salary for an academic oncologist?

[Shoopoo]

I'm interested in the field and would love some answers. I've heard the starting salary is low but what does the average salary eventually look like?

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[TexasMed22]

AAMC survey from 2022 has the average for all academic oncologists at 299k

 

[Shoopoo]

Thank you so much. Another question I had, what is the a difference between an academic and hybrid practice in terms of involvement with research and pay?

 

[whoknows2012]

AAMC survey from 2022 has the average for all academic oncologists at 299k

This feels low fwiw. Yes it’s been 2 years but still. I’m an academic oncologist in NYC and of course we’re well known for having terribly low compensation for academics. I would say average nyc compensation is north of 250 maybe even 275. Nationwide I’d wager a guess it’s closer to 325 but I’m spitballing

 

[TexasMed22]

This feels low fwiw. Yes it’s been 2 years but still. I’m an academic oncologist in NYC and of course we’re well known for having terribly low compensation for academics. I would say average nyc compensation is north of 250 maybe even 275. Nationwide I’d wager a guess it’s closer to 325 but I’m spitballing

Anecdotally, at my mid tier academic institution in a non desirable area, average is about 310. Kinda depressing given that the orthopods here make ~700

 

[whoknows2012]

Anecdotally, at my mid tier academic institution in a non desirable area, average is about 310. Kinda depressing given that the orthopods here make ~700

Interesting maybe all we’ve seen is desirable areas catch up a bit. Starting salary at my institution is 250-275ish but we’re amongst the lowest

 

[gutonc]

This feels low fwiw. Yes it’s been 2 years but still. I’m an academic oncologist in NYC and of course we’re well known for having terribly low compensation for academics. I would say average nyc compensation is north of 250 maybe even 275. Nationwide I’d wager a guess it’s closer to 325 but I’m spitballing

Anecdotally, at my mid tier academic institution in a non desirable area, average is about 310. Kinda depressing given that the orthopods here make ~700

I think 300-ish (like my 2wRVU thing) is a reasonable baseline. Are people in academics making more or less? Of course.

The other thing to consider is how varied academic jobs can be compared to most community based jobs. Academic averages are going to include that basic research superstar with and R01 and a K coming out of fellowship who will see only metastatic triple negative breast patients half a day a week and work in her lab the rest of the week, and the "clinical assistant professors" who are out there grinding 3 1/2 clinic days a week plus 12 weeks of inpatient coverage a year. The first person's RVUs barely cover the salary of the MA that rooms their patients, the other one is keeping the department afloat and could pull in 7 figures doing the same work in a PP job.

 

[whoknows2012]

I think 300-ish (like my 2wRVU thing) is a reasonable baseline. Are people in academics making more or less? Of course.

The other thing to consider is how varied academic jobs can be compared to most community based jobs. Academic averages are going to include that basic research superstar with and R01 and a K coming out of fellowship who will see only metastatic triple negative breast patients half a day a week and work in her lab the rest of the week, and the "clinical assistant professors" who are out there grinding 3 1/2 clinic days a week plus 12 weeks of inpatient coverage a year. The first person's RVUs barely cover the salary of the MA that rooms their patients, the other one is keeping the department afloat and could pull in 7 figures doing the same work in a PP job.

This is obviously all very true. I feel a little seen with some of the text haha. In reality though it really is a spectrum but way less <250’s these days when that was the norm in 2020

 

[Shoopoo]

I've heard about hybrid academic community programmes as well
what is the a difference between an academic and hybrid practice in terms of involvement with research (type and time dedicated to it) and pay?

 

[MD46]

Where I trained, Decent sized college town, University program

Instructor salary was 180k and Assistant professor 240k, associate was 280k and I think full professor 320k, plus 25k for admin positions, not sure how much more for Chief of Division

Too less for too much work and hassle, also don't even get me started on internal politics in an academic place …..

 

[Duke1K]

I've heard about hybrid academic community programmes as well
what is the a difference between an academic and hybrid practice in terms of involvement with research (type and time dedicated to it) and pay?

In my experience, what people mean by hybrid practices are basically private practices that academia owns. The upsides include quicker referrals/access to specialists, ability to engage in tumor boards, and easier clinical trials enrollment; a few may have 1-2 half days at the "flagship" academic site. Pay is much better than academic physicians, comparable to true private practices, but with the loss of control that ownership provides. No one really does research in a rigorous way (and no one is expected to), while academic promotion is based on it.

This may change in the future since these are relatively early days, in which the university bought older, established clinicians who don't have interests in research. This is also not the same as academic physicians who work at an affiliate site, but are paid by the university on the academic pay scale/promotion ladder (such as the VA or other long-term partnerships) - this is true academia. This is also not the same as "academic-ish" institutions such as Kaiser, who have residents and can do research, but education/research are not part of the overall mission and therefore de-emphasized.

 

[Shoopoo]

I'm a little confused about how jobs at community centres operate so please help if you can!

What are community centres exactly? How are they different from private and academia?
Are owned by the hospital? Can they be non profit organizations? (Curious because i know you can only be allowed to work at non profit and academic organizations until you get a greencard which is gonna be a long journey for me as I'm Indian)
Does one need to have research and teaching responsibilities?
What is the payscale like? Is it more similar to academic or private or somewhere in between?

 

[gutonc]

I'm a little confused about how jobs at community centres operate so please help if you can!

What are community centres exactly? How are they different from private and academia?
Are owned by the hospital? Can they be non profit organizations? (Curious because i know you can only be allowed to work at non profit and academic organizations until you get a greencard which is gonna be a long journey for me as I'm Indian)
Does one need to have research and teaching responsibilities?
What is the payscale like? Is it more similar to academic or private or somewhere in between?

With all due respect, your status says you're a pre-med. If that's true, you've got at least 10 years ahead of you before this becomes an issue, and everything we say now has a chance of being completely wrong when it matters. Come back and ask then.

If you're further along in the process, like a 2nd year fellow, then your timing is perfect. And there are lots of threads here that discuss it.

 

[Shoopoo]

With all due respect, your status says you're a pre-med. If that's true, you've got at least 10 years ahead of you before this becomes an issue, and everything we say now has a chance of being completely wrong when it matters. Come back and ask then.

If you're further along in the process, like a 2nd year fellow, then your timing is perfect. And there are lots of threads here that discuss it.

I would still really appreciate a response, or maybe you could let me know where to find those threads that discuss it. I'm having trouble finding them.
And I'm not sure what my status says but I'm applying for the match soon.

 

[Shoopoo]

With all due respect, your status says you're a pre-med. If that's true, you've got at least 10 years ahead of you before this becomes an issue, and everything we say now has a chance of being completely wrong when it matters. Come back and ask then.

If you're further along in the process, like a 2nd year fellow, then your timing is perfect. And there are lots of threads here that discuss it.

I would still really appreciate a response, or maybe you could let me know where to find those threads that discuss it. I'm having trouble finding them.
And I'm not sure what my status says but I'm applying for the match soon.

I mean IM match*

 

[RustBeltOnc]

"hybrid" in community hematology oncology generally means - we won't pay you.

 

[randomhemoncpd]

"hybrid" in community hematology oncology generally means - we won't pay you

Perhaps in some places but there are hybrid oncologists in my system hitting a million a year.

 

[MD46]

"hybrid" in community hematology oncology generally means - we won't pay you.

Hybrid in my experience is a place that gives you a rank like "clinical assistant professor", have students/residents/fellows rotate with you in clinic for a few times a year. One grand rounds and a few Noon conference lectures are expected for the residents/fellows. Otherwise there isnt really any research expectation unless its needed for the next rank up. You still get paid on RVU model and end up doing 4-4.5 clinic days a week. So salary still in the range of a hospital employed doctor.

 

[randomhemoncpd]

Hybrid in my experience is a place that gives you a rank like "clinical assistant professor", have students/residents/fellows rotate with you in clinic for a few times a year. One grand rounds and a few Noon conference lectures are expected for the residents/fellows. Otherwise there isnt really any research expectation unless its needed for the next rank up. You still get paid on RVU model and end up doing 4-4.5 clinic days a week. So salary still in the range of a hospital employed doctor.

Pretty much this

 

[gutonc]

As with everything, it runs the gamut. In my old job, which was a "community-based academic" setting, there were opportunities galore for teaching, clinical research, lecturing, etc, as well as some compensation for it, typically in the form of annual bonuses. But there was no expectation, or requirement to do so. Roughly 20% of us did some of that stuff, everybody else didn't and just ground out the meat in clinic. Our pay was based on 25th %ile but once production bonuses kicked in, almost everyone was >50th %ile.

There are also academic positions where you just see patients and have student/residents/fellows in clinic or on the wards. Those pay a lot closer to true academic levels, but can pay better if there's a production component.

Finally, there are non-university hospital based and even private practice/MSG jobs out there with significant education and clinical research opportunities. They don't come with much in the way of titles, but they also pay on the higher end of the spectrum.

 

[geniusindisguise]

As with everything, it runs the gamut. In my old job, which was a "community-based academic" setting, there were opportunities galore for teaching, clinical research, lecturing, etc, as well as some compensation for it, typically in the form of annual bonuses. But there was no expectation, or requirement to do so. Roughly 20% of us did some of that stuff, everybody else didn't and just ground out the meat in clinic. Our pay was based on 25th %ile but once production bonuses kicked in, almost everyone was >50th %ile.

There are also academic positions where you just see patients and have student/residents/fellows in clinic or on the wards. Those pay a lot closer to true academic levels, but can pay better if there's a production component.

Finally, there are non-university hospital based and even private practice/MSG jobs out there with significant education and clinical research opportunities. They don't come with much in the way of titles, but they also pay on the higher end of the spectrum.

I'm curious to know what the set up of these jobs are like. I have seen job postings for "research directors" or "phase I research leadership" roles in these non-university or large PP groups. Do these roles have less clinical load compared to those without these research roles? What does the research component in these roles look like compared to say clinical investigators at university hospitals? Specifically, I wonder if they are actually writing LOI, opening their own IITs, collaborating with universities for the translational analyses, and presenting/publishing these data, or if they are mainly site directors for multi-center trials and enrolling patients. If it's the former, it sounds like a good compromise for clinical investigator type folks who want to run trials.

 

[gutonc]

I'm curious to know what the set up of these jobs are like. I have seen job postings for "research directors" or "phase I research leadership" roles in these non-university or large PP groups. Do these roles have less clinical load compared to those without these research roles? What does the research component in these roles look like compared to say clinical investigators at university hospitals? Specifically, I wonder if they are actually writing LOI, opening their own IITs, collaborating with universities for the translational analyses, and presenting/publishing these data, or if they are mainly site directors for multi-center trials and enrolling patients. If it's the former, it sounds like a good compromise for clinical investigator type folks who want to run trials.

I can only tell you my experience as the clinical research director of an academ-ish clinical group. Although I was more than welcome to do LOIs and write IITs (both of which I did), it was on my own time and with minimal support (i.e., I was welcome to write a grant or just pay cash to cover the departmental statistician's time to help me).

In my current non-University based system, there is a fair amount of support for writing LOIs and IITs through the cancer institute including medical writing, stats, translational lab support, etc. As a result, there are a ton of IITs in the department. I'm not sure what the FTE buydown is though, absent outside grant support.

As with all things, the answer is going to be "it depends".