What's the point of saying "ORM"?

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It highlights the systemic racism imbedded in every facet of US culture that oppressed persons of color who are raised in it. They are at an inherent disadvantage, regardless of individual effort. This has everything to do with medical school admissions. There cannot be a meritocracy when URMs have a constant weight/burden.

This is pretty overdramatic. Either that or I’m a schizophrenic that’s hallucinating all these diversity initiatives everywhere I go.


Isn’t it interesting how both immigrants and immigrants f1 are better off than natives?
 
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Did you also read the part where they face higher unemployment than their parents did despite higher educations? Or the part from the actual article that says they face the same economic prospects as native born blacks with the same education level? Any of that?
"She measured their impact by looking at where the immigrant families lived and found that children of black immigrants who grow up in a more segregated area (which captures assimilation) or areas that have higher rates of discrimination are less likely to work." - so that is weird, you are saying that the whole government is broken but somehow if you live in good area this does not affect you.
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Yall are really missing the point @MemeLord is trying to make. It's easy to dismiss something you haven't been through or say "it's not real " or "it doesn't apply" but that's just ignorance.
Nobody denies that racism exists, but saying that your life success solely depends on your skin color no matter how hard you try is nonsense.
 
Nobody denies that racism exists, but saying that your life success solely depends on your skin color no matter how hard you try is nonsense.
No one is saying it is solely based on skin color!!!!!!!!! This is not a ‘all or nothing’ sort of thing. It isn’t even based on skin color. It is based on the total package: skin color, SES, neighborhood, school system, upbringing, parentage (single parents), opportunity and so on all looked through the lens of statistics not individual case by case basis. God damn.
 
Nobody denies that racism exists, but saying that your life success solely depends on your skin color no matter how hard you try is nonsense.
HAHAHA no one said it solely did but let's be clear, you line up a bunch of people no matter the field, let's say they have the same qualifications and brilliant. Trust they aren't going for the AA man or woman because of the toxic, ignorant beliefs society holds. People often assume an Asian or white person more intelligent.
Do you know how many times I've been undermined in life because of being an URM? I've worked with brilliant AA physicians but yet had patients demand a white physician because they assumed the AA physician knew less. And this happens well beyond medicine.
And that's the point that's trying to be made.
 
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I don't want to discuss it any longer it is pointless anyway. My point was that this country is a land of opportunities no matter where you came from. It is obvious that racism exists here but even for blacks this country is a lot better (in terms of opportunities), than any other in the World.
 
I don't want to discuss it any longer it is pointless anyway. My point was that this country is a land of opportunities no matter where you came from. It is obvious that racism exists here but even for blacks this country is a lot better (in terms of opportunities), than any other in the World.
People laugh reacted to this but... as a second gen immigrant from a country in a really bad place rn, I kind of agree. The opportunities available to people here, despite the fact that major systemic racism does exist, is pretty unparalleled compared to most places in the world. I’m just gonna go out on a limb and say that anyone who disagrees has either a) never actually lived in the US, or b) never lived anywhere outside the US, meaning they don’t really have the perspective.
 
Lol or maybe as an AA and a first gen Asian American, I just MIGHT have a pretty great perspective.
The main point is that systemic inequality, created by systemic racism, exists which is why there is a need to have URM/ORM differentiation.
And those opportunities don't seem to exist when there's a huge school to prison pipeline issue and society looks to you as incompetent and a criminal. Opportunities also seem bleak when you lack other resources.
So, if you continue to refute this, then you're just living blissfully in your personal ignorance of not knowing or not having this issue to personally affect you, your family, friends and community.
Take the time to read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness when you get a chance to gain more insight and better educated on the issue.
 
Lol or maybe as an AA and a first gen Asian American, I just MIGHT have a pretty great perspective.
The main point is that systemic inequality, created by systemic racism, exists which is why there is a need to have URM/ORM differentiation.
And those opportunities don't seem to exist when there's a huge school to prison pipeline issue and society looks to you as incompetent and a criminal. Opportunities also seem bleak when you lack other resources.
So, if you continue to refute this, then you're just living blissfully in your personal ignorance of not knowing or not having this issue to personally affect you, your family, friends and community.
Take the time to read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness when you get a chance to gain more insight and better educated on the issue.

“If you disagree with me you’re racist.” Never fails. This is like Godwin’s law v2.0 where you replace Hitler with racist
 
Lol or maybe as an AA and a first gen Asian American, I just MIGHT have a pretty great perspective.
The main point is that systemic inequality, created by systemic racism, exists which is why there is a need to have URM/ORM differentiation.
And those opportunities don't seem to exist when there's a huge school to prison pipeline issue and society looks to you as incompetent and a criminal. Opportunities also seem bleak when you lack other resources.
So, if you continue to refute this, then you're just living blissfully in your personal ignorance of not knowing or not having this issue to personally affect you, your family, friends and community.
Take the time to read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness when you get a chance to gain more insight and better educated on the issue.
Yet you still live here, yet you are going to become a doctor, yet will be making more money than 90+% of people in this country, yet will be more educated than 95% of the population, yet your children will have better life than most people in the World (and your home country) could even dream about. Again, nobody denies that racism exists, nobody denies that African American community faces issues but saying that there is some better country to live, study, start business and make a career than the USA is pretty inaccurate, even if you have black skin. As a jew I know what is ethnic discrimination, trust me, I have been in those shoes in my home country. But the US is a completely different place, though we see anti-jewish violence even here (Pittsburgh, October 2018), I am not going to compare who was more or less oppressed throughout the life, I just want to point out that if you want to achieve something, there is nothing to stop you in the US.
 
Yet you still live here, yet you are going to become a doctor, yet will be making more money than 90+% of people in this country, yet will be more educated than 95% of the population, yet your children will have better life than most people in the World (and your home country) could even dream about. Again, nobody denies that racism exists, nobody denies that African American community faces issues but saying that there is some better country to live, study, start business and make a career than the USA is pretty inaccurate even if you have black skin. As a jew I know what is ethnic discrimination, trust me, I have been in those shoes in my home country. But the US is a completely different place, though we see ant-jewish violence even here (Pittsburgh, October 2018), I am not going to compare who was more or less oppressed throughout the life, I just want to point out that if you want to achieve something, there is nothing to stop you in the US.
Am I? What I'll be one of the 7.7%? Because I luckily had a just a few more resources.
And yet, you still miss the point. Actually, lots of people deny racism. Also, never did I say any of that. However, it is still ignorant to say nothing stops us in the US and don't say "besides yourself". Please, walk into any predominantly African American and say that lol
But it's cool. I have this same argument with my foreign, non black mother. You won't and can't understand what it is like to be black in America.
 
Am I? What I'll be one of the 7.7%? Because I luckily had a just a few more resources.
And yet, you still miss the point. Actually, lots of people deny racism. Also, never did I say any of that. However, it is still ignorant to say nothing stops us in the US and don't say "besides yourself". Please, walk into any predominantly African American and say that lol
But it's cool. I have this same argument with my foreign, non black mother. You won't and can't understand what it is like to be black in America.
I assume that you will get into medical school and finish it.
I can mirror this:
go to nazi party and say that jewish people are as good as aryans, they be laughing at you. Does it prove that they are right? No. (I am not comparing blacks to nazis just saying that if some group of people says something it is not always true)
If there is something to stop you from getting an education, why do we see so many successful and well educated minorities? Why do we see Nigerians that outperform most ethnic groups in the US? Why do we see smart gifted scientists, politicians, doctors, lawyers who are not whites? Why do we see 6 million African Americans who live in households with 100k+ year income? How did they do it? Racial discrimination exists but not in that proportion to stop you from being successful and live charm life. Just think about it, if 6 million people made it, why can't you?
 
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🤣
Lol there's so many layers to this, you have no idea. But stay blessed
 
Of course it does. I am a URM but I am the first to admit that by giving some applicants preference over others, you are in effect lowering the chances other applicants have. URMs can get into top med schools with a 513. Show me caucasians or Asians with a 513 at Stanford.

A seat is added not taken away. In regards to your last sentence. Visit AAMC table 24 and look under white then under blacks. You will see that although the percentage is greater for blacks, there are much more ORMs and whites that gain acceptance with low MCAT scores.

Yes there are more of them applying, has nothing to do with my point though. The handful of AA’s are not taking a seat but rather the legacy are. Did you not hear about the largest college admissions scam ever? What race were they? Why do the kin of faculty get automatic interviews and most med schools. Why is legacy a question on an application? Why aren’t your arms flailing over that? That’s who your spot is getting taken by, because seats aren’t ADDED for that.

Also, black applicants can’t be stratified in a way whites and Asians can. The numbers simply don’t add up. Refer to my thread. There are less black males applying now than I’m 1978. If you have 100 apples vs 3 apples, which group can be more stratified? URM is not a term that shouldn’t carry any weight. It is that way for a reason. Although med School admissions can only do so much, the problem is occurring at a much younger age.

(This is not necessarily directed to you but everyone reading)
It wouldn’t be wise to be color blind. When people say why bring up race. Why did slave owners bring up race? Or Jim Crow/ segregation laws (which were banned only 55 years ago)? Race has been a method to stratify against blacks and other minorities for hundred of years. Choosing NOW to be color blind is dangerous and only serves the majority groups. I don’t get that luxury of being color blind as people judge me on my skin color daily. It only serves oppressed groups right when discussions regarding representation are made. It would be like wondering why a country like Haiti is the way it is, but choosing not to think about the history of how it was colonized and the effects that had on the country’s development.
 
I think this thread should either be closed or moved to sociopolitical forum, we went off the topic.
You're probably right but don't let these fools try to convice you that america is an evil racist system where choices and personal accountablity has no bearing on a persons future. Like for instance, those educated but unemployed minorities...what did they major in? Why don't we see more AA docs? Maybe they're choosing not pursue medicine.
 
SO you're dismissing everyone now..cool lol. I know, everyone who disagrees with you has no insight and/or is uneducated on these topics. Please don't go, stay and enlighten us, educate us lol
Lol No, I'm exiting a conversation that clearly people aren't being receptive to and has deviated from the original post.
Like I said, stay blessed.
 
Lol No, I'm exiting a conversation that clearly people aren't being receptive to and has deviated from the original post.
Like I said, stay blessed.
I mean, you’re the one who’s condescending everyone for the sake of proving ... what exactly? Yup, stay “blessed” dude. In all honesty, you just seem really vitriolic and annoying :/

Look, I understand that anti-blackness has roots deep in the history of this country and I support measures to correct it, and I also can’t profess to understand that struggle as I don’t live it. But as a Muslim male, my life isn’t free from bigotry or judgment either. While I don’t know to what extent my race/ethnicity limits my upward mobility, I can say that even getting to be a physician puts me in an income bracket 5x what I could have expected to make back home. Literally all I’m saying is that there’s more opportunity in America compared to nearly anywhere else in the world, and if you’d like to provide an actual example of a non-Western country that allows for greater personal growth, especially for women and minority populations of that country, I’d love to hear about it. But since you can’t, I guess defaulting to calling me racist is easier. 🙄

Anyway, this is turning into an SPF thread, so I think I’m gonna abandon ship.
 
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Yet you still live here, yet you are going to become a doctor, yet will be making more money than 90+% of people in this country, yet will be more educated than 95% of the population, yet your children will have better life than most people in the World (and your home country) could even dream about. Again, nobody denies that racism exists, nobody denies that African American community faces issues but saying that there is some better country to live, study, start business and make a career than the USA is pretty inaccurate, even if you have black skin. As a jew I know what is ethnic discrimination, trust me, I have been in those shoes in my home country. But the US is a completely different place, though we see anti-jewish violence even here (Pittsburgh, October 2018), I am not going to compare who was more or less oppressed throughout the life, I just want to point out that if you want to achieve something, there is nothing to stop you in the US.
many white and Asian people have a perception that having money = racism solved. That is not the case. LeBron James makes 70 mil a year and his house was still vandalized calling his family the N word. And barriers are around. There are barriers that keep people from accomplishing there goals. Why are URMs underrepresented. They didn’t just decide one day, “hey let’s Be underrepresented in almost all professional careers!” Barriers exists due to the history of the country. The notion of having your goals in your own hands is where you are wrong, that is not the case and was not the cas efor
My Parents and family.
 
many white and Asian people have a perception that having money = racism solved. That is not the case. LeBron James makes 70 mil a year and his house was still vandalized calling his family the N word. And barriers are around. There are barriers that keep people from accomplishing there goals. Why are URMs underrepresented. They didn’t just decide one day, “hey let’s Be underrepresented in almost all professional careers!” Barriers exists due to the history of the country. The notion of having your goals in your own hands is where you are wrong, that is not the case and was not the cas efor
My Parents and family.
Did you read my post? I said money + education = success, I never said = racism solved. Does anyone stop you from attending college?
I can tell you from my Jewish background, look at the Jewish history, it is written with the blood. Look at centuries of Egyptian slavery, look at centuries of European violence, murders, and discrimination let alone WW II. The whole our history is a history of violence, segregation, and discrimination throughout the human history. Yet we are still very successful. When USSR allowed its Jewish to leave the country back in 1970th they all came here as refugees without money and English. Look at them now. Nobody denies hardship that African Americans faced and keep facing but I will never believe that one is doomed to be uneducated and poor simply because of the skin color no matter how hard they try; you can call me racist but given how many successful minorities we have (especially immigrants), I will not believe that something can stop you from getting education, securing well paid position, and live great life. Could you face barriers? Yes. Can these barriers stop you from being successful? No. Don’t believe me? Look at 6 million educated AA who make more than 100k each year, those who work as doctors, engineers, and scientists. (I am also abandoning this thread).
 
Did you read my post? I said money + education = success, I never said = racism solved. Does anyone stop you from attending college?
I can tell you from my Jewish background, look at the Jewish history, it is written with the blood. Look at centuries of Egyptian slavery, look at centuries of European violence, murders, and discrimination let alone WW II. The whole our history is a history of violence, segregation, and discrimination throughout the human history. Yet we are still very successful. When USSR allowed its Jewish to leave the country back in 1970th they all came here as refugees without money and English. Look at them now. Nobody denies hardship that African Americans faced and keep facing but I will never believe that one is doomed to be uneducated and poor simply because of the skin color no matter how hard they try; you can call me racist but given how many successful minorities we have (especially immigrants), I will not believe that something can stop you from getting education, securing well paid position, and live great life. Could you face barriers? Yes. Can these barriers stop you from being successful? No. Don’t believe me? Look at 6 million educated AA who make more than 100k each year, those who work as doctors, engineers, and scientists. (I am also abandoning this thread).
DUDE don’t bother, people like the one you’re responding to get off on starting fights on the internet haha. This thread was about a simple misunderstanding of the ORM abbreviation, so let’s leave it there :hilarious:
 
I feel like you guys are missing the point on this URM vs ORM thing. I like to think of it as "impressiveness." What would be more "impressive," if someone was born on third base, or if someone was born in the parking lot, but still managed to hit a double. I understand that it's hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes when all you see is the hard studying you did, the volunteering, the MCAT prep, the shadowing (possibly your parent's co-workers). But try to think about a child born in inner-city Baltimore to a single mother and a ****ty school system that doesn't care about them. Or coming to America as an 8 year old not speaking English with parents who don't speak English.

It's more "impressive" when the latter is able to hit a double than for the kid that comes from a lineage of physicians to be born on third base. That's not to say that every ORM has it easy. That's why you're given multiple opportunities to tell your individual story. But life follows the rule of averages and if being an ORM was such an overwhelming disadvantage, then schools wouldn't be 75-90% Asian and white.

Disclaimer, I'm an ORM.
 
Did you read my post? I said money + education = success, I never said = racism solved. Does anyone stop you from attending college?
I can tell you from my Jewish background, look at the Jewish history, it is written with the blood. Look at centuries of Egyptian slavery, look at centuries of European violence, murders, and discrimination let alone WW II. The whole our history is a history of violence, segregation, and discrimination throughout the human history. Yet we are still very successful. When USSR allowed its Jewish to leave the country back in 1970th they all came here as refugees without money and English. Look at them now. Nobody denies hardship that African Americans faced and keep facing but I will never believe that one is doomed to be uneducated and poor simply because of the skin color no matter how hard they try; you can call me racist but given how many successful minorities we have (especially immigrants), I will not believe that something can stop you from getting education, securing well paid position, and live great life. Could you face barriers? Yes. Can these barriers stop you from being successful? No. Don’t believe me? Look at 6 million educated AA who make more than 100k each year, those who work as doctors, engineers, and scientists. (I am also abandoning this thread).
I get you and hear you loud and clear. I actually understand and somewhat agree. I guess the demeanor through your writing from what I interpreted is that of apathy
 
DUDE don’t bother, people like the one you’re responding to get off on starting fights on the internet haha. This thread was about a simple misunderstanding of the ORM abbreviation, so let’s leave it there :hilarious:
You can mention me. And if i wanted a fight you would know. Stop acting like a snowflake this was just a discussion not fight. A disagreement doesn’t equal fight
 
You can mention me. And if i wanted a fight you would know. Stop acting like a snowflake this was just a discussion not fight. A disagreement doesn’t equal fight
I wasn’t talking about you, sorry for the confusion. I thought he was responding to the same person who was responding to me.
 
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