this is great dialogue! Here are responses:
While I know I will never convince otherwise, I just want to encourage you not to put all that you know a box and discount everything outside of that box.
First off, I want to say I am pro health whether it is in medicine, exercise, nutrition, alternative treatments, etc. I seek the truth just as much as everyone else on here. I just don't limit it to one profession, but all professions... and I am especially critical of my own.
Everyone is given informed consent. I use the consent form required by my malpractice insurance that lists all the risks of therapy. Anyone is welcome to leave my office if they don't want to take the risks, and I would be happy to give them a referral.
I agree with you on the chiropractic schools you mentioned like Life and Logan. I didn't go to those schools. I actually went to a school that works with a local hospital. It's a "mixer" school.
And it is true that chiropractic school doesn't have the standards of incoming students that the majority of medical schools have, but that doesn't mean the school is any less in education. I would say our standards of admission are similar to the Caribbean Medical schools from the comparisons I've seen.
Our Pathology classes were taught by MD's and PhD's, and our Physiology classes that included Immunology were taught by PhD's. I can assure you that not once did "mis-alignment of the spine" came up in any of these classes. Chiropractic theory was left to the chiropractic adjusting classes. The only part about immunology I remember in those classes was that "the nervous system controls the immune system". Do you disagree with that statement?
When I entered, my class size was 220 (largest class size ever for the school). Only 150 remained after 1 year. The first two trimesters, people were missing daily. The students could not keep up with the load of coursework.
When I graduated only 110 of our original class actually walked the stage. By the time it was over, only the best students remained. Some got through with C's and some were nearly straight A students. No one had a 4.0 in chiropractic school despite many having 4.0's in undergraduate work.
There was a joke in our school that whoever dropped out of our school graduated from some of these other "lesser" chiropractic schools. Therefore, I don't disagree with what you have said about these schools. I just disagree with the blanket statement some of you have applied to the entire profession. Just like any profession, There is a bell curve of the great practitioners and the bad practitioners. There are many chiropractors that I wouldn't send my patients to, and others I would highly recommend.
Since few want to quote reputable journals on here, let me be the first to backup my argument:
June 5, 2002. Journal of the American Medical Assoc. concerning research bias:
- Rob Logan, director of Science Journalism Center at U of Missouri-Coumbia was quoted, "(this) underscores that the findings presented in the press and medical journals are not always facts or as certain as they seem"
- Dr. Catherine DeAngelis, JAMA's editor said that the problems are most likely to occur in research funded by drug companies which have a vested interest in findings that make their products look good.
- The article also stated that several Journal editors are also concerned that researchers report research results, and even suppress unfavorable findings.
- The article then gives examples of such research findings are reporting of results.
When millions of dollars are at stake:
Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics 2002.
- 31% of NFL teams use chiropractors in an official capacity as a part of their staffs.
- 77% of trainers have referred to a chiropractor for evaluation and treatment.
the heart of the Vertebral Subluxation Complex is the pressure on nerve:
Spine Magazine - Jan. 15, 1999
- "pressure on spinal nerves causes measurable changes in the H-reflex.
- it was shown that as little as 10-45 mmHg placed on a nerve root was enough to change the nerve impulses by 40-60 percent in minutes.
A survey:
United States Department of Defense:
Comparison of Chiropractic and medical care by Birch and Davis submitted to US Congress:
http://www.chiropracticresearch.org/NEWS_US_department_of_defen.htm
Don't fear integration:
In the February 2003 issue of the magazine "Orthopedics Today", there appeared a feature article titled, "Time to Recognize Value of Chiropractic Care? Science and Patient Satisfaction Surveys Cite Usefulness of Spinal Manipulation."
- Jack Zigler, MD, orthopedic spine surgeon with the Texas Back Institute, states, "There are a lot of myths about chiropractic care. I decided to look into each of these myths, and what I found is that chiropractic education, side-by-side, is more similar to medical education than it is dissimilar. Chiropractors work for us as screeners for surgical pathology. They can do the same work-up and send the patient who has already gone through his conservative treatment and had all his diagnostic work done to the surgeon."
- Scott Haldeman, DC, MD, PhD stated, "About 10 to 12 international guidelines have suggested that there is some benefit to manipulation. If we look at their basic guidelines, manipulation has consistently been accepted by independent government and scientific bodies as being a valid form of treatment."
- Andrew Cole, MD, associate clinical professor of rehabilitation medicine at the University of Washington and recent past president of the American Academy of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation gave the strongest overall endorsement when he said, "Overall, manipulation has the advantage of reducing pain, decreasing medication, rapidly advancing physical therapy and requiring fewer passive modalities."
I have many more research articles in journals I could list. Let me know if you have any of interest.
Cowy, your first link is to an article from the UK. You have made a blanket statement about chiropractors, the suggests:
This led to an internal conflict within the chiropractic profession, which continues today.
That is the point I'm making. Not all chiropractors are what you speak. However, he only makes claims. I would like to see the evidence.
The other article you listed conclusion:
The chiropractic profession has great promise in terms of its potential contribution to society and the potential for its members to realize the benefits that come from being involved in a mainstream, respected and highly utilized professional group. However, there are several changes that must be made within the profession if it is going to fulfill this promise. Several lessons can be learned from the podiatric medical profession in this effort.
You have just contradicted your previous posts. You need to do some better research next time.
Please, I challenge you on the findings of stroke. This has been the biggest nugget for the anti-chiropractic sentiment, and I want YOU to bring it to light for us all. 1. rate of stroke in America. 2. Rate of stroke after chiropractic visits. 3. rate of hemorrhagic stroke among those undergoing aspirin therapy. (an accepted treatment for prevention of stroke) I would like to then see your conclusion of your findings.
. I have several other friends in other chiropractic schools around the country and every one of them (save the guy at National) spews the same anti-med, anti-vax, subluxation crap.
And be specific, down to at least a cellular level.
