Where is the excell sheet showing school statistics?

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sam500

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Hi folks,
Last year I saw an excell spreadsheet someone had prepared with entering student statistics for each medical school. Showing mean median MCAT and in/out of state acceptance percentages.
Does anyone have a copy of that sheet or can you point me to a copy on this forum?
Cheers!
Sam
 
Hi folks,
Last year I saw an excell spreadsheet someone had prepared with entering student statistics for each medical school. Showing mean median MCAT and in/out of state acceptance percentages.
Does anyone have a copy of that sheet or can you point me to a copy on this forum?
Cheers!
Sam

It was removed due to a legal challenge by the AAMC. All the information in that spreadsheet is proprietary and under copyright of the AAMC (plagiarized out of the MSAR). You are going to be hard pressed to find in on here; finding yourself a copy of the MSAR will be a better bet.
 
It's hidden.

You'll either have to search extensively or know someone who can e-mail you.

It purportedly violates copyright laws since it uses a lot of MSAR data.
 
It was removed due to a legal challenge by the AAMC. All the information in that spreadsheet is proprietary and under copyright of the AAMC (plagiarized out of the MSAR). You are going to be hard pressed to find in on here; finding yourself a copy of the MSAR will be a better bet.


This. It no longer exists. And PLEASE don't be one of those obnoxious people that PMs everyone asking for it. It really gets annoying after awhile.
 
I still have a copy saved on my hard drive from before it was removed. I don't feel guilty about keeping it because I've also purchased the actual MSAR, for which there is absolutely no replacement!

The spreadsheet must have taken someone hours upon hours to put together, but it really doesn't tell you anything special you didn't already know/suspect or couldn't have figured out with a quick look at the MSAR. Basically you plug in your GPA and MCAT and it tries to quantify your ECs somehow (which is stupid). It then compares your stats to those of different school averages. If you are above the average, it says you are a really competitive applicant, it if right at the average you are just competitive, and if you are below the average it says that is a reach school for you. Its for those people who are so anal that they have to try and explicitly quantify every little thing about their application (i.e. "i'm going to do EC option 'A' vs 'B' this summer because the spreadsheet says my chances of getting in will be 2.78% higher if I pick A!!")

It's better just to make a list of 30 or so schools you are potentially interested in applying to and thoroughly read everything published about those schools in the MSAR. That will give you a much better feel for which schools you are highly competitive vs just competitive vs its a reach. Doing it that way will make you much more knowledgeable about each school, and since this is probably the most important application you will ever submit for anything in your whole life, I'd say it is worth it to do some legit researching instead of using a cheap spreadsheet.

But if you still really want the spreadsheet PM me telling me you've ordered the MSAR from Amazon and then I'll email it to you. Just remember to use it at your own risk, and definitely take its recommendations with a grain of salt - you know how strong of an applicant you are better than it does!
 
It's hidden.

You'll either have to search extensively or know someone who can e-mail you.

It purportedly violates copyright laws since it uses a lot of MSAR data.

Data can't be copyrighted unless there's something original and creative in it's organization. An alphabetical listing of statistics for med schools is absolutely not covered by copyright law. AAMC is full of **** if they're claiming otherwise.
 
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i know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy that knows that i have it and might send it to any email address that i find in my inbox.
 
This. It no longer exists. And PLEASE don't be one of those obnoxious people that PMs everyone asking for it. It really gets annoying after awhile.
Agreed. It almost always happens to be someone with poor English skills.
 
i know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy that knows that i have it and might send it to any email address that i find in my inbox.

yep--i know a guy who knows a guy with friends in low places...and fortunately that guy is an excel wizard
 
Data can't be organized unless there's something original and creative in it's organization. An alphabetical listing of statistics for med schools is absolutely not covered by copyright law. AAMC is full of **** if they're claiming otherwise.

One can't reproduce statistics that are ONLY reported in the MSAR, and even if you happened to find them all out via many nights of furious googling, you'd still have to credit your sources, which the spreadsheet didn't.
 
The spreadsheet must have taken someone hours upon hours to put together, but it really doesn't tell you anything special you didn't already know/suspect or couldn't have figured out with a quick look at the MSAR. Basically you plug in your GPA and MCAT and it tries to quantify your ECs somehow (which is stupid). It then compares your stats to those of different school averages. If you are above the average, it says you are a really competitive applicant, it if right at the average you are just competitive, and if you are below the average it says that is a reach school for you. Its for those people who are so anal that they have to try and explicitly quantify every little thing about their application (i.e. "i'm going to do EC option 'A' vs 'B' this summer because the spreadsheet says my chances of getting in will be 2.78% higher if I pick A!!")

It's better just to make a list of 30 or so schools you are potentially interested in applying to and thoroughly read everything published about those schools in the MSAR. That will give you a much better feel for which schools you are highly competitive vs just competitive vs its a reach. Doing it that way will make you much more knowledgeable about each school, and since this is probably the most important application you will ever submit for anything in your whole life, I'd say it is worth it to do some legit researching instead of using a cheap spreadsheet.

Haha...it did take many, many hours and multiple people's work. Unfortunately, we can't distribute it anymore due to legal threats by the AAMC. Regardless, it was a good tool while it lasted. You're right, though, that some good research will get you most of what it gave people -- it was simply a quicker way of getting some suggestions on schools. In reality, it answers the majority WAMC threads' questions better than many posters can (w/o doing research) b/c of the data it contains at its "fingertips." Nevertheless, no point in discussing that now as it's a pretty difficult find at this pt.
 
One can't reproduce statistics that are ONLY reported in the MSAR, and even if you happened to find them all out via many nights of furious googling, you'd still have to credit your sources, which the spreadsheet didn't.

I don't think anyone ever meant for it to be distributed as widely as it was. Originally, it was a project people added to or modified to make their own lives easier. I know I added a buttload of features because I was curious what I could do with the data. It was nothing more than a statistical/Excel exercise for me but I thought I'd offer it back to the community. People started asking for add'l features, so I added them. Its popularity skyrocketed to the point of getting several thousand downloads per month (to the pt where we were having bandwidth issues with just about every free hosting site on the internet at the time), which was the point at which the AAMC took notice. Should it have cited references? Sure...but it wasn't really meant for public distribution, I don't think. There was mention, though, of the data being MSAR data input by DataWhore.
 
Data can't be organized unless there's something original and creative in it's organization. An alphabetical listing of statistics for med schools is absolutely not covered by copyright law. AAMC is full of **** if they're claiming otherwise.

Stick to medicine. Law isn't your bailiwick.
 
I don't think anyone ever meant for it to be distributed as widely as it was. Originally, it was a project people added to or modified to make their own lives easier. I know I added a buttload of features because I was curious what I could do with the data. It was nothing more than a statistical/Excel exercise for me but I thought I'd offer it back to the community. People started asking for add'l features, so I added them. Its popularity skyrocketed to the point of getting several thousand downloads per month (to the pt where we were having bandwidth issues with just about every free hosting site on the internet at the time), which was the point at which the AAMC took notice. Should it have cited references? Sure...but it wasn't really meant for public distribution, I don't think. There was mention, though, of the data being MSAR data input by DataWhore.

Yeah it was (and still is for some..) a really cool thing to look at and maybe get ideas from. I would never apply to a school just because it said I "should", but maybe it would point out a school I might be competitive for and prompt me to investigate further in the MSAR. I know that the creators never intended for it to become an MSAR replacement, but I think a lot of pre-meds started to think of it as one, and at that point the AAMC started to care. 🙁
 
Yeah it was (and still is for some..) a really cool thing to look at and maybe get ideas from. I would never apply to a school just because it said I "should", but maybe it would point out a school I might be competitive for and prompt me to investigate further in the MSAR. I know that the creators never intended for it to become an MSAR replacement, but I think a lot of pre-meds started to think of it as one, and at that point the AAMC started to care. 🙁

Because of the timing, I actually wonder if part of their fear was that it premeds were relying on that data as if it were absolutes -- i.e., that a tool like that could be dangerous to medical school admissions by causing a significant shift in where people sent applications. If they saw "their" data being used in a way that made them uncomfortable, I could see them suddenly pulling the legal card. (The timing is of note b/c of some of the newest features added just before that, some of the more controversial and experimental ones.)
 
looking back at my files, i just noticed that i actually have two of them. one had 0910 in the file name, and a more recent one with 2010 in the file name. the 2010 one was much more fancy, but i like the simple layout of the old one. they are both pretty epic though, just throwing that out there.
 
Because of the timing, I actually wonder if part of their fear was that it premeds were relying on that data as if it were absolutes -- i.e., that a tool like that could be dangerous to medical school admissions by causing a significant shift in where people sent applications. If they saw "their" data being used in a way that made them uncomfortable, I could see them suddenly pulling the legal card. (The timing is of note b/c of some of the newest features added just before that, some of the more controversial and experimental ones.)

Yeah.. sounds suspicious to me. I don't know which "version" I happen to have, but I downloaded it earlier this year so its not that old. It's the "2010-2011 edition FINAL w/GPA calculator, MCAT estimator, & ChanceME (Old AAMC data)" title, but I don't know if that was the last version.

It's also possible that I might have it uploaded to my public dropbox folder and may be able to create a public link in maybe like 5 seconds or less but just don't want to risk getting my account deleted. Just sayin'..
 
BUMP...because people are PM'ing me about this again.

To Be Clear: I CANNOT Distribute the Med School Selection Spreadsheet, So
Don't Bother Asking Me Too
!
(I will not even both responding to such requests. They get deleted immediately without further consideration as there are 1) too many people asking, and 2) the AAMC has asked that it not be distributed. People who were not a part of the project can probably get you a copy, but I cannot.)

BTW...curious...anyone still have this spreadsheet? It still sits on my desktop, haha.... good times.

sdnmedschoolspreadsheet.jpg
 
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BUMP...because people are PM'ing me about this again.

BTW...curious...anyone still have this spreadsheet? It still sits on my desktop, haha.... good times.

sdnmedschoolspreadsheet.jpg




I.want.this.:wow:
 
BUMP...because people are PM'ing me about this again.

BTW...curious...anyone still have this spreadsheet? It still sits on my desktop, haha.... good times.

sdnmedschoolspreadsheet.jpg

I've still got it. I've been getting a lot of PMs lately asking me for it and I was wondering how my name got out there since I thought this thread was long buried. Then I checked the forums for the first time in a long time and saw this at the top... now it all makes sense.
 
BUMP...because people are PM'ing me about this again.

BTW...curious...anyone still have this spreadsheet? It still sits on my desktop, haha.... good times.

sdnmedschoolspreadsheet.jpg

That's the one! You know, if you don't want people asking you for it, you shouldn't taunt them with it hahaha.
 
I.want.this.:wow:

It floats around. Unfortunately, it's been officially removed from SDN. I brought back what I could in the MCAT Estimator but the majority of the spreadsheet is no longer being distributed. Apparently, we p*ssed of the AAMC b/c it uses AAMC data. Being as they let it go for a long time and didn't seem to care until it became ridiculously popular (>2000 downloads/week) and had a bunch of new predictive features analyzing and integrating the applicant's and schools' data, I suspect something about the changes we made to the program may have made them a bit nervous.

I have heard someone (I don't know who and it's not me) may be working on an update to the spreadsheet but I know little beyond that and I doubt it will be posted on SDN. I've actually seen people post bittorrent links for the spreadsheet, though, which is kind of funny to me (maybe flattering, even?).
 
That's the one! You know, if you don't want people asking you for it, you shouldn't taunt them with it hahaha.

If we could find a place where people could just d/l it, I wouldn't mind. I simply can't reply to 100-200 PMs/day asking me for it.... (And that's what it would end up being, considering that the d/l rate reached about 3000 downloads/wk at one pt)
 
I have an anonymous Gmail account I use sometimes. I have it uploaded and available on there for download for anyone who knows the link. I'm wary of posting that link on this thread, though, because I'm pretty sure the mods would ban me if I did.
 
I have an anonymous Gmail account I use sometimes. I have it uploaded and available on there for download for anyone who knows the link. I'm wary of posting that link on this thread, though, because I'm pretty sure the mods would ban me if I did.

Haha... I doubt you'd get banned (maybe probationary status, though). You might also receive a nasty email from the AAMC and one from Google letting you know they've removed the file.

What I suggest to people is that they just do a search. I refuse to give it out to avoid being in hot water but if someone manages to find it via google or whatnot, there's really nothing I can do about that. I've heard that some people have bittorrented it, which I'm really not sure how I feel about, haha.
 
Yeah. True story: When I uploaded it the first time, the file name was still "Medschoolselector.xlsx" and within 30 seconds of uploading it, a notice popped up warning me that the file probably violated Google's TOS. It seems like they only filter file names, though, and not content itself - I changed the name to random gibberish and have had no problems.
 
Yeah. True story: When I uploaded it the first time, the file name was still "Medschoolselector.xlsx" and within 30 seconds of uploading it, a notice popped up warning me that the file probably violated Google's TOS. It seems like they only filter file names, though, and not content itself - I changed the name to random gibberish and have had no problems.

HAHAHA... wow. Our wonderful spreadsheet has been flagged by Google. :laugh:
 
So you're the one that made that, apumic. I downloaded it a long time ago when I first joined these forums. Nice 👍 and thanks.
 
So you're the one that made that, apumic. I downloaded it a long time ago when I first joined these forums. Nice 👍 and thanks.


Well... I did all the enhancements. The original spreadsheet has been around for a number of years. I basically took a simple 1-page spreadsheet and added like 5 more "applications" onto it as well as data for DO schools, but I can't really take credit for the original idea. But you're welcome. I'm glad you like it. I wish it were still available for people to use freely.
 
Stick to medicine. Law isn't your bailiwick.

He's absolutely right. In order to make a copyright claim to a list of facts (such as the average MCAT of every medical school in the AAMC), they would need to claim some sort of creative originality in how those facts were selected and organized (http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/obtaining.html#compilation). If the selection criterion is "Is the school in the AAMC" and the organization is "alphabetical order", I really don't see how they have a legal leg to stand on. It's settled American law that the whitepages, for example, are not copyrightable, because they merely provide an alphabetical list of names and phone numbers of every resident of a certain area. The Supreme Court has ruled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural) that because this doesn't require any originality or creativity, it does not enjoy copyright protection.

I understand that studentdoctor doesn't have the legal resources to fight bull**** like this, and that furthermore they would like to stay on the good side of the AAMC, so they're unlikely to fight it. That's fine. But the fact remains that any legal threats AAMC is issuing are empty on their face. Their legal department appears to be full of scumbags. It's disappointing that the AAMC isn't a more ethical organization.

To summarize, no, you shouldn't worry about the legal repercussions of passing around this excel file. There are none. The only people who could support a copyright claim to it are the people who prepared to excel file, not the AAMC.
 
He's absolutely right. In order to make a copyright claim to a list of facts (such as the average MCAT of every medical school in the AAMC), they would need to claim some sort of creative originality in how those facts were selected and organized (http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/obtaining.html#compilation). If the selection criterion is "Is the school in the AAMC" and the organization is "alphabetical order", I really don't see how they have a legal leg to stand on. It's settled American law that the whitepages, for example, are not copyrightable, because they merely provide an alphabetical list of names and phone numbers of every resident of a certain area. The Supreme Court has ruled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_v._Rural) that because this doesn't require any originality or creativity, it does not enjoy copyright protection.

I understand that studentdoctor doesn't have the legal resources to fight bull**** like this, and that furthermore they would like to stay on the good side of the AAMC, so they're unlikely to fight it. That's fine. But the fact remains that any legal threats AAMC is issuing are empty on their face. Their legal department appears to be full of scumbags. It's disappointing that the AAMC isn't a more ethical organization.

To summarize, no, you shouldn't worry about the legal repercussions of passing around this excel file. There are none. The only people who could support a copyright claim to it are the people who prepared to excel file, not the AAMC.

Do you have a background in law?
 
Do you have a background in law?
Do you? Or can you make an argument against it?

I'm guessing the answer to both of those questions is probably no. PM Law2Doc if you want and ask him if he would be willing to post here.
 
Do you? Or can you make an argument against it?

I'm guessing the answer to both of those questions is probably no. PM Law2Doc if you want and ask him if he would be willing to post here.

I'm not arguing against what he's saying. It was a simple question. If anyone had a stake in the answer to that question it would be the authors of the spreadsheet. I simply don't distribute the spreadsheet. Period. If they have no legal basis on which to make threats, that's cool. I will more freely speak of it. If they do have a legal basis for their threats, then I'm not going to help others locate copies of it. For me, it's that simple. Actual work on the project has ceased (at least from my perspective; people have, in the past, broken Excel's encryption schemes and it would not surprise me if someone were to do that and add to the spreadsheet -- that would, as far as I am concerned, be their prerogative.).
 
Well, since you guys brought it up. If anyone has a copy, might as well pass a copy to me. Much appreciated.

As I've suggested numerous times, try searching. Someone may be able to PM you a link but the best bet is to go searching online. It's a pretty viral spreadsheet.... (I absolutely do not distribute it; however, if you have the MSAR, I would encourage a google search for it.)
 
Data can't be copyrighted unless there's something original and creative in it's organization. An alphabetical listing of statistics for med schools is absolutely not covered by copyright law. AAMC is full of **** if they're claiming otherwise.

The medical school machine gets all butt hurt if you get anything for free. As if the $200,000 in tuition, $250 MCAT, $100 secondaries, and $160 for primaries isn't enough.
 
Man I have searched and searched, but I can't find it anywhere. It would be nice if a fellow pre-medical student sdent me one (i.e. early b-day gift).
 
Well, this is nowhere near the quality of Apumic's spreadsheet calculator... but here's an old link with the 09-10 MSAR data table:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=515082 (look for 'Data *****')

... I cannot attest to the quality of the information, as it is not mine and was hand-typed, which leaves it prone to error. Anyway, enjoy.
 
Wow average GPAs for NY/PA schools are higher than what I thought they would be. 😱
 
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