Which Foreign Medical School Should I attend?

[MNurse2MD]

I am interested in pursuing a career in Medicine. I graduated with a Bachelors of Science in Nursing, but I messed around during my pre-requisite courses/pre-nursing college career and hence my cumulative GPA is 3.27. I would literally have to re-take an entire bachelors degree to bring it up to speed/competitiveness.

In the province that I live in (BC), it is crazy competitive and most people need to have a cGPA of 3.8-.3.9 to even be considered/invited for an interview along with an amazing MCAT score. Aside from this, I have looked at many traditional MD schools in the United States and applications range in the thousands (one medical school i looked at had received over 7500 applications for its program which holds less than 195 students per intake).

I am interested in applying for medical school abroad and some of the locations that have me interested are:

- Saint James School of Medicine (St. Vincent and the Grenadines)
- Caribbean Medical University (Curucao)
- University of Witwatersrand (South Africa)
- University of Medical and Health Sciences (St. Kitts)

I am aware that if you graduate form a foreign medical school, you are deemed as an IMG and have to fight like hell to earn your place in residency amongst thousands of other applications (in particular, strong step 1 USMLE score) and I am fine with having to actually study and work my butt off (didnt study for my entire nursing career).

I was wondering if anyone had experience with this educational institutions, reviews, ratings, tuition fee's etc. I am aware there are other forums on this website that have the following information, but specifically information on Saint James School of Medicine and the others tend to have very outdated information. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I am very interested in doing my residency back in my home province but am also completely open to doing residency in the U.S and coming back here once completing my residency (am interested in family medicine, internal medicine, psychiatry, otolaryngeology, general surgery[lets be honest, very unlikely to match unless amazing step scores] and other fields such as diagnostic radiology). Suprisingly enough, the MATCH for this year on the CaRMS website, there were numerous unfilled residency positions, some very attractive. Im particularly interested in the top three universities listed above due to financial considerations. Professional student line of credit for medical students only extends up to 150,000 CAD for international foreign medical students opposed to the traditional 270,000 for local medical students.

Thoughts, opinions, any former students attend? help and thank you!

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[LebronManning]

Who told you about those caribbean schools? Going to the caribbean is already a very risky decision but you're also choosing horrid schools there. The only carib schools any one should ever consider are St. George's and Ross.

Regardless, Caribbean schools are very risky and you will likely not be a practicing physician in the US/Canada if you go there. You can improve those odds by proving you are a good test taker (which theoretically will translate to USMLE) by doing well on the MCAT and by at least going to a good Carib school (SGU/Ross).

Unfortunately, you have 0 chance at US or Canadian med schools no matter your mcat score without at least doing a special masters program or some sort of post-bacc work. Even then, the odds aren't in your favor. Perhaps the carib will be the only choice you will have left; at least don't go to the schools you have mentioned.

 

[A_Garrr]

@Goro I think this person could use some of your wisdom

 

[Goro]

@Goro I think this person could use some of your wisdom

II'm not familiar with the Canad-> Carib-> Canadian residency pathway. If you're looking for a US residency, my gut tells me that you have two strikes against you (Where's the wise @aProgDirector when you need him???): being a non-US citizen, and then a Carib grad...which make you an FMG, not IMG.

I can't recommend the Carib schools under any circumstance. Perhaps try schools in Ireland/UK/Australia?

 

[Lawpy]

II'm not familiar with the Canad-> Carib-> Canadian residency pathway. If you're looking for a US residency, my gut tells me that you have two strikes against you (Where's the wise @aProgDirector when you need him???): being a non-US citizen, and then a Carib grad...which make you an FMG, not IMG.

I can't recommend the Carib schools under any circumstance. Perhaps try schools in Ireland/UK/Australia?

I thought being a non-US IMG could actually be more advantageous than being a US IMG. Of course, this scenario obviously doesn't apply to OP should he go to Caribbean, but a non-US IMG who studied hard and dominated their medical coursework and had a very strong research productivity and letters can be a very attractive candidate for essentially all programs of any specialty of interest in the US. @mimelim mentioned that he had a few stellar non-US IMG residents who were simply outstanding, which is saying something as his program only has 1-2 residents per year for 1000 applications!

In OP's case, this means he should actually go to medical school in his province, do very well, build up a very strong application, and he could have a very good chance matching somewhere strong in the US.

 

[Mwooster]

In the province that I live in (BC), it is crazy competitive and most people need to have a cGPA of 3.8-.3.9 to even be considered/invited for an interview along with an amazing MCAT score.

In OP's case, this means he should actually go to medical school in his province

Very true, applying to Canadian med schools, to my knowledge, is even more numbers-based than American MD programs, who in general have a more holisticc (yes, with 2 c's) application process with emphasis on ECs as well.

Best bet for OP is take some post-bac classes, get the cGPA and sGPA up. Then, do as well as (s)he can on the MCAT (500+, preferably 505+) and apply American DO schools that are Canadian friendly such as Michigan State.

 

[FlameGrilledChicken]

Hey!! So I may actually be able to provide some advice since I'm also from BC and am currently finishing undergrad at UBC. I also know a few people that have gone abroad to Ireland or Carib and I actually have family that attended med in South Africa including Wits.

First, what is your percentage grade average? I ask because UBC looks at the percentage and It will give me a better idea of where you stand. Second, the MCAT at UBC is only used as a cutoff pre-interview and you only need a 124 in each section (496) which should be achievable for anyone who wants to be a doctor. Nonetheless you should still aim for a decent score since you will likely want to apply to other schools. Next, yours ECs play an incredibly important role at canadian schools. Having a large number of long-term quality experiences can make up for a lower GPA ESPECIALLY at UBC where it is 50% GPA and 50% ECs used to determine whether individuals get an interview. I'd recommend applying to just see what your EC scores would be. You may be surprised. Also its about 300 accepted out of 655 interviewed out of 2200 apps at UBC so its not as bad as it may seem, especially if you take one or two years to buff up your ECs.

I would highly recommend against a Caribbean school. This forum is loaded with info about why you should avoid that option.

With regard to other schools in Ireland or South Africa, they are great if you want to remain and practice in those countries. If you do not, then I'd personally recommend Irish schools over other international schools if you want to return to Canada since most Canadians that go abroad choose the irish route and so more program directors etc. will be familiar with those schools and their grads back here in Canada. If you want a residency in something like family med or even psych (but not really gen surg or otalaryngoly) then its possible to do that in Canada or the US but may be not in a desirable location. Gen surg would possible in the US if you have above-average research and stellar USMLE scores but you will have to work much harder compared to fellow US or Canadian grads for the same spot.

If you do end up going the IMG route you should know that Carms (the canadian residency match) has up to date info on the process for IMG vs CMGs in the match. Most provinces that have spots for IMGs require a return of service contract. Also, BC (which i assume is your home provicne) is one of the more limited provinces in terms of options for IMGs. As I understand, Alberta, Sask, Manitoba and I beleive Quebec are more open.

 

[MNurse2MD]

Who told you about those caribbean schools? Going to the caribbean is already a very risky decision but you're also choosing horrid schools there. The only carib schools any one should ever consider are St. George's and Ross.

Regardless, Caribbean schools are very risky and you will likely not be a practicing physician in the US/Canada if you go there. You can improve those odds by proving you are a good test taker (which theoretically will translate to USMLE) by doing well on the MCAT and by at least going to a good Carib school (SGU/Ross).

Unfortunately, you have 0 chance at US or Canadian med schools no matter your mcat score without at least doing a special masters program or some sort of post-bacc work. Even then, the odds aren't in your favor. Perhaps the carib will be the only choice you will have left; at least don't go to the schools you have mentioned.

I've looked at both SGU and ROSS. although they appear to be the best schools..their tuition rates along with attrition rates and class sizes are insane. SGU has hundreds upon hundred if people per incoming class with the highest tuition fees (around 300k before). ROSS reportedly has incoming class sizes of 600 students or more before the initial culling. I would be happy man if I could come back to Canada as a family medicine resident which is very likely considering BC has a family physician shortage as well as a return of service agreement which hoops IMG into doing family medicine for 2 years in an underserved areas to recruit. I'm just trying to see what my most viable options are at this point without going back t on school nd spending another 3 or so years trying to pump up my CV .

 

[MNurse2MD]

You can't stay back in Ireland as a non-EU, even if you go to a Irish med school. You could before, but it's no longer possible. And Quebec is out without proficiency in french.
I do agree these are better options for a Canadian than a Caribbean school. Unfortunately finances seems to be a concern for OP, which rules out Aus/UK/Irish schools. I'm not sure how much the banks are giving out for non-North American schools these days.

Irish schools no longer give resident placements to non eu citizens in their country. Your last place and the tuition is around 65 000 CAD per year before living accommodations etc. Would be a waste going to Ireland and doing MD if there is no chance getting residency in either countries

 

[Robin-jay]

1.) Everyone thinks they will be part of that ~20% to find residency because they will just "study extra hard" at the "Caribbeans". The only issue with this fact is that everyone going to the Caribbeans goes in with this mindset.

2.) Don't do it.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I thought being a non-US IMG could actually be more advantageous than being a US IMG. Of course, this scenario obviously doesn't apply to OP should he go to Caribbean, but a non-US IMG who studied hard and dominated their medical coursework and had a very strong research productivity and letters can be a very attractive candidate for essentially all programs of any specialty of interest in the US. @mimelim mentioned that he had a few stellar non-US IMG residents who were simply outstanding, which is saying something as his program only has 1-2 residents per year for 1000 applications!

These types of FMGs are usually either physicians in their home countries who are now trying to come to the US or are graduates of foreign schools that rival our top 20. These are not people who couldn’t get into medical school in their home country and then went somewhere else and then ultimately tried to come to the US. With the way Canadian medical school admissions work, from my understanding, OP has no chance at going to school in their province which means their scenario will be what I’ve outlined above if they were to attempt to come to the US making them basically DOA for US residencies. It appears the Carib —> Canadian residency route is extremely difficult as well.

 

[814965]

You'd have a shot at US DO schools as long as your MCAT is decent, especially the newer ones that take international applicants. A handful of DO schools like MSUCOM reserve spots specifically for Canadians. Barring that, other countries commonly mentioned here seem to be other Anglophone countries, Poland, and Israel, though I confess I don't know anything about their application processes other than that Australian med schools accept the MCAT. Maybe try France if you speak the language? Anything's better than a Caribbean diploma mill, OP.

 

[Lucca]

Didn’t read the thread, didn’t read the Op, don’t care, don’t go Carib

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Don’t go Carib. I have a classmate whose gpa was below 1.00. He put in the work and got it up to around a 3.4. He’s going to be a doctor now. You can certainly get yours up with some work and patience.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You've received some good advice here. Canadian --> carib / ireland / Aus --> US residency is a common pathway. The most common non-carib schools are UQ and RCSI. In the carib, there's the usuals of St G and Ross. Saba is reported to be less expensive, and seems to have lots of Canadians.

All of these pathways are a big risk. Even at the best carib schools, the drop out rate is somewhere around 25-30%, it's hard to get solid numbers. No one thinks they will be the one to drop out, of course. If you drop out, you still have the student debt to pay off.

To be a US medical resident, you'll need a J visa. Health Canada is dropping the number of visas they are willing to sponsor, and most of them are now in FM. If you can't get a visa, you can't do a residency at all.

All of the schools you've listed above are a bad idea.

 

[piii]

Why do you think you are gonna ace med school, boards, and win a uphill battle when you haven't shown any academic success?

 

[MNurse2MD]

You'd have a shot at US DO schools as long as your MCAT is decent, especially the newer ones that take international applicants. A handful of DO schools like MSUCOM reserve spots specifically for Canadians. Barring that, other countries commonly mentioned here seem to be other Anglophone countries, Poland, and Israel, though I confess I don't know anything about their application processes other than that Australian med schools accept the MCAT. Maybe try France if you speak the language? Anything's better than a Caribbean diploma mill, OP.

I've actually been looking at Michigan State university 's DO program. They have a Canadian student incentive in where they provide Canadian scholarships to students who participate Into the program to offset the cost. The biggest issue with Canadian students trying to marticulate into the MSUCOM is that their perceived tuition and living expenses for the program re approximately 520,000 USD. Crazy expensive when converting into Canadian currency. I am looking at special masters programs as well. In the interim, i am going to be redoing my undergraduate science courses (biologies) in an attempt to bring up my undergraduate gpa and take a 1 year rehabilitation sciences masters degree to pump up my curriculum vitae.

Thoughts on anything else I can do? I have tons of life experiences, hospital experiences, solid references. I figure if I can bump up my science/undergrad GPA and have a 1 year masters in rehab sciences, it will demonstrate scholastic aptitude. I also have certificates of recognition for undergraduate college research projects.

Thanks in advance all.

 

[814965]

I've actually been looking at Michigan State university 's DO program. They have a Canadian student incentive in where they provide Canadian scholarships to students who participate Into the program to offset the cost. The biggest issue with Canadian students trying to marticulate into the MSUCOM is that their perceived tuition and living expenses for the program re approximately 520,000 USD. Crazy expensive when converting into Canadian currency. I am looking at special masters programs as well. In the interim, i am going to be redoing my undergraduate science courses (biologies) in an attempt to bring up my undergraduate gpa and take a 1 year rehabilitation sciences masters degree to pump up my curriculum vitae.

Thoughts on anything else I can do? I have tons of life experiences, hospital experiences, solid references. I figure if I can bump up my science/undergrad GPA and have a 1 year masters in rehab sciences, it will demonstrate scholastic aptitude. I also have certificates of recognition for undergraduate college research projects.

Thanks in advance all.

Just get some community service and apply very early and broadly. The US DO schools are going to be your best shot, especially the newer ones. You will need DO shadowing and a letter from one for almost all of them.

 

[heinzeno]

I am interested in pursuing a career in Medicine. I graduated with a Bachelors of Science in Nursing, but I messed around during my pre-requisite courses/pre-nursing college career and hence my cumulative GPA is 3.27. I would literally have to re-take an entire bachelors degree to bring it up to speed/competitiveness.

In the province that I live in (BC), it is crazy competitive and most people need to have a cGPA of 3.8-.3.9 to even be considered/invited for an interview along with an amazing MCAT score. Aside from this, I have looked at many traditional MD schools in the United States and applications range in the thousands (one medical school i looked at had received over 7500 applications for its program which holds less than 195 students per intake).

I am interested in applying for medical school abroad and some of the locations that have me interested are:

- Saint James School of Medicine (St. Vincent and the Grenadines)
- Caribbean Medical University (Curucao)
- University of Witwatersrand (South Africa)
- University of Medical and Health Sciences (St. Kitts)

I am aware that if you graduate form a foreign medical school, you are deemed as an IMG and have to fight like hell to earn your place in residency amongst thousands of other applications (in particular, strong step 1 USMLE score) and I am fine with having to actually study and work my butt off (didnt study for my entire nursing career).

I was wondering if anyone had experience with this educational institutions, reviews, ratings, tuition fee's etc. I am aware there are other forums on this website that have the following information, but specifically information on Saint James School of Medicine and the others tend to have very outdated information. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I am very interested in doing my residency back in my home province but am also completely open to doing residency in the U.S and coming back here once completing my residency (am interested in family medicine, internal medicine, psychiatry, otolaryngeology, general surgery[lets be honest, very unlikely to match unless amazing step scores] and other fields such as diagnostic radiology). Suprisingly enough, the MATCH for this year on the CaRMS website, there were numerous unfilled residency positions, some very attractive. Im particularly interested in the top three universities listed above due to financial considerations. Professional student line of credit for medical students only extends up to 150,000 CAD for international foreign medical students opposed to the traditional 270,000 for local medical students.

Thoughts, opinions, any former students attend? help and thank you!

STAY AWAY FROM ROSS.

 

[MNurse2MD]

STAY AWAY FROM ROSS.

Do you have any personal experience that you can share? or your reasons and rational for such.

Much appreciated

 

[heinzeno]

Do you have any personal experience that you can share? or your reasons and rational for such.

Much appreciated

The faculty they have in their clinical department do not have the best interest of their students at heart.
They get street cred (faculty cred) from the number of students they fail.
They will start failing you and when you complain about it as unjust, they fail you even more, then they look at you like what you gonna do about it.
They are like a mafia with ring leader who is more psychopathic. They are horrible, they will make you give up on medicine. plus their security officers treat you like a criminal.
And you out there wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on them, like you paying them to abuse you.
Med school is hard enough as it is, the last thing a person like me would want is to have to worry about evil people placed in positions of power over me.
Its all done now. But I wish I read this before applying to that f---ing institution.