Which schools are entirely PBL?

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Abi123

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Hello,

I personally am not a fan of problem-based learning and am making sure I avoid these schools when I apply. I do not mind if these schools have some element of PBL in their curriculum (in fact I would like some aspect of PBL to be there), but I do not want it to be the overriding mode of instruction.

So, which medical schools are entirely PBL?

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Abi
 
Hello,

I personally am not a fan of problem-based learning and am making sure I avoid these schools when I apply. I do not mind if these schools have some element of PBL in their curriculum (in fact I would like some aspect of PBL to be there), but I do not want it to be the overriding mode of instruction.

So, which medical schools are entirely PBL?

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Abi

Students at Western told me the school is adopting the PBL curriculum. Not sure if it's true.
 
LECOM at Seton Hill (Greensburg, PA, satellite campus of LECOM) is also a PBL curriculum. The main Erie campus has other pathways, though, including traditional lecture.
 
whats the difference between the pathways?

Lecture-Discussion Pathway
Lecture presentations and laboratories are at the heart of the Lecture Discussion Pathway (LDP). Students usually spend the morning in lecture sessions and the afternoon in a combination of lectures, laboratories, tutorials, small group discussions and independent study sessions.

How Does LDP Work?
There are two phases of LDP:
  • Phase I Core Curriculum is designed to introduce students to the basic concepts of Gross Anatomy, Biochemistry, Immunology, Microbiology, Pathology, Pharmacology and Physiology.
  • Phase II Curriculum uses a systems approach to medical education. Lecturers present instructional materials that go beyond the basic principles mastered during Phase I. Primary care physicians and specialists offer clinical perspectives based on their own experiences with patient care as it relates to the particular system.
Clinical Experience
History and Physical Examination stresses a comprehensive examination of the patient while developing a proficiency in the use of diagnostic equipment. The course gives the student firsthand knowledge of the clinical aspects of medicine.
Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine
LECOM students learn the basic philosophy, principles and practice of osteopathic manipulative medicine. Hands-on diagnosis and treatment is the foundation of osteopathic whole-person health care.
Evaluation
Examinations consist mainly of multiple choice questions similar in format to licensing board exams. Quizzes may be utilized to provide feedback to students prior to larger examinations.
Is LDP the Choice for You?
LDP is ideal for students who:
  • Learn well from a combination of presentations and readings; and
  • Are more comfortable in a teacher-directed environment.
Phase 1: http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Lecture-Discussion-Pathway-Courses-Phase-1/49/2205/612/2384
Phase 2: http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Lecture-Discussion-Pathway-Phase-2-Courses/49/2205/612/2385

Problem-Based Learning Pathway
In the Problem-Based Learning (PBL) Pathway, studies are based around patient cases that provide the context for acquiring the knowledge and understanding of basic medical science. This method of learning promotes critical thinking and clinical reasoning skills, while retention of knowledge is enhanced through its contextual nature. Since the PBL process emphasizes self-directed study with a team approach, it also strongly promotes independent learning and interpersonal skills.
How Does it Work?
Following an initial course in Anatomical Sciences (Anatomy, Embryology and Histology), during which time PBL is a minor component, students in the PBL Pathway study the basic medical sciences almost completely by PBL, which occupies about 70% of the total pre-clinical curriculum.
Over the two years of the PBL preclinical program, groups of about eight or nine students, each with a faculty facilitator, meet for three tutorial session each week to study a sequence of more than 70 patient cases in paper presentation. These studies replace the major part of the traditional lecture program. The faculty members do not teach in the traditional sense, but facilitate the efforts of the student group in understanding the cases for themselves.
During the course of studying each case, learning issues — topics the students should study in greater depth in order to understand the case and the underlying medical science — are identified. Between meetings students work independently, or in small, informal groups, on these learning issues, which later form the basis for their examinations. Learning issues are selected in the form of chapters or sections of required texts for the pathway so that the material to be studied for each examination is unambiguously defined. Thus, in Problem-Based Learning, each basic medical science subject is studied, not in isolation, but integrated with other subjects in the context of the case.
Early Clinical Experience
PBL students learn proper patient history evaluation and physical examination techniques in class. From the first year of the program, PBL students gain clinical experience with standardized patients under the guidance of physician preceptors. They then apply this experience in clinical settings, such as physicians’ offices and hospitals, during preceptorships in year two, and later during rotations in years three and four.
Osteopathic Principles and Practice
LECOM students learn the basic philosophy, principles and practice of osteopathic medicine. Hands-on diagnosis and treatment are a cornerstone of osteopathic whole-person health care.
Student Assessment
In the PBL component of the program, there are two examinations in the first semester and three examinations per semester thereafter. Cases are studied in groups of up to eight. Each group of cases is followed by an examination that tests knowledge and understanding of the learning issues relating to every case in the group. A small, additional component of the student assessment is derived from evaluation of their performance in tutorial sessions by the facilitator and by their fellow group members.

Learning Modules: http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Problem-Based-Learning-Modules/49/2205/612/2387
Background: http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.p...ellence-in-Medical-Education/49/2205/612/2388

Directed Study Pathway
The Directed Study Pathway (DSP, originally Independent Study) is a unique program for medical education. It is initiated with significant daily classroom time in the first semester and allows adult learners, who are capable of learning with minimal classroom time, to gradually decrease his or her lecture attendance and utilize specific "directed study" modules to finish his or her first two years of medical school. The pathway requires the student to have well-developed organizational and time-management skills in order to complete the rigorous requirements in an independent manner.

How Does DSP Work?
The DSP stresses student self-motivation and self-learning. After attending classes in anatomical sciences in the first semester, students begin the transition to studying in small groups, in an independent but closely directed manner. This study is directed by highly structured learning objectives compiled by the faculty and incorporated into self-directed learning modules. With the absence of lectures, textbooks and other appropriate resources serve as the basis for learning. It must be stressed that DSP is not a "correspondence course" of study and requires significant on-campus presence throughout the two years. Certain courses require attendance, especially those with a laboratory portion. After initially attending classes five days per week, students are typically on-campus from two to five days each week throughout the remainder of their two years in the curriculum. As such, all DSP students are required to live within 30 miles of Erie. While students utilize their time as they see appropriate, the pathway is closely directed by the faculty. Students meet with the faculty on a weekly basis.
Though not required, DSP students may attend any or all of the Lecture Discussion Pathway classes as part of their learning experience.

Clinical Experience
DSP students are involved from the beginning in a number of courses involving clinical experience. From Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine class and lab throughout the two years, to learning how to take histories and conduct physical examinations, the DSP stresses comprehensive examination of the patient and helps develop a proficiency in the use of diagnostic equipment.

Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine
LECOM students learn the basic philosophy, principles and practice of osteopathic manipulative medicine. This hands-on diagnosis and treatment is the foundation of osteopathic whole-person health care.

Evaluation
Each examination includes national licensure board-type multiple-choice questions that are generated by the faculty and based upon learning objectives. The DSP has a regularly scheduled date and time for each module examination.

Is DSP the choice for you?

DSP is ideal for students who:
  • Are self-motivated learners with good organizational and time-management skills;
  • Learn best through reading and small-group interactions;
  • Are dedicated, above all else, to the rigor of academic activities; and
  • Have a strong science education background.
Modules: http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Independent-Study-Pathway-Courses-and-Modules/49/2205/612/2390
Advantages: http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Advantages-of-the-ISP-Curriculum/49/2205/612/2391
FAQ: http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Frequently-Asked-Questions-About-LECOM-ISP/49/2205/612/2392

Primary Care Scholars Pathway
LECOM introduced the innovative curricular pathway, the Primary Care Scholars Pathways (PCSP), as a response to the declining interest in primary care, and particularly family medicine. LECOM Primary Care Scholars will graduate in three years from the Erie, PA campus with a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine degree that is equivalent to a four-year academic program. PCSP students must make a commitment to complete an osteopathic internship and residency in family medicine or general internal medicine.*
About PCSP
LECOM’s PCSP offers one of two of the nation's only three-year medical degree programs and brings LECOM to the forefront of competency-based education. PCSP accelerates the traditional four-year medical school curriculum into three calendar years and greatly reduces the time and expense involved in earning a medical education geared toward primary care. Students will be trained in accredited graduate medical education programs in primary care and receive early clinical experiences coupled with primary care mentoring.
How PCSP Works
LECOM uses its experience with innovative teaching pathways to ensure that Primary Care Scholars receive the equivalent of four years of academic and clinical education to prepare for post-graduate training. Following unique courses and learning modules, students complete the first two years of basic science and preclinical education in under 20 months. They begin clinical training in March of the second year. Students must complete core competency-based clinical rotations that meet all the educational requirements necessary for primary care medicine. LECOM introduced new core rotations to continue OMM training and other essential medical skills. A sub-internship introduces students to the hospitals where they will continue their clinical training after graduation.
Clinical Rotations
Clinical rotations at a number of local teaching hospitals provide added support for PCSP students.
These hospitals include:
  • Millcreek Community Hospital
  • St. Vincent Health Center
  • Hamot Medical Center
  • Meadville Medical Center
  • UHHS – Richmond Heights
*The PCSP Student Primary Care Commitment
The Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine (LECOM) acknowledges the national shortage in primary care physicians in the United States. The goal of LECOM’s Primary Care Scholars Pathway (PCSP) is to attract competent students to the primary care specialties of Family Medicine (FM) and General Internal Medicine (IM) through a reduction in the time and cost of becoming a practicing primary care physician. The PCSP students acknowledge and confirm that their entry and continued matriculation in the PCSP is contingent upon the students’ commitment to enter osteopathic primary care residency programs in FM or general IM directly after graduation and practice primary care medicine for a minimum of five years following the successful completion of residency. An osteopathic residency is one approved and certified by the American Osteopathic Association. The actual practice of medicine may be delayed by a fellowship in geriatrics, neuromuscular medicine, or family medicine obstetrics.
The PCSP student acknowledges that in the event he/she chooses not to enter into an osteopathic primary care residency directly following graduation from LECOM or chooses to not practice primary care medicine for a five-year period following the completion of said osteopathic residency, the student is asked to return the scholarship award equal to the annual tuition rate paid at the inception of the student’s final year at LECOM.

How it works: http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.p...re-Scholars-Curriculum-Works/49/2205/612/2394

Strait from the horses mouth...lecom.edu
 
Hello,

I personally am not a fan of problem-based learning and am making sure I avoid these schools when I apply. I do not mind if these schools have some element of PBL in their curriculum (in fact I would like some aspect of PBL to be there), but I do not want it to be the overriding mode of instruction.

So, which medical schools are entirely PBL?

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Abi

I hate it too 😡. I'm just happy its minimal at my school of matriculation.
 
So only LECOM is 100% PBL? Might be taking them off my AACOMAS...
 
LECOM-Bradenton and Seton Hill are 100% PBL, Erie has the other pathways. Depending on your stats, and where you want to live, Erie may or may not be an option for you. I can't remember if there are any other schools that are 100% PBL, I was thinking a couple were, but upon looking them up they say they aren't... To my knowledge, most schools are NOT PBL...
 
LECOM-Bradenton and Seton Hill are 100% PBL, Erie has the other pathways. Depending on your stats, and where you want to live, Erie may or may not be an option for you. I can't remember if there are any other schools that are 100% PBL, I was thinking a couple were, but upon looking them up they say they aren't... To my knowledge, most schools are NOT PBL...

Going to take LECOM-Bradenton off my AACOMAS right now.

On AACOMAS the other LECOM site is "Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine - Erie/Seton Hill, PA"

Does that mean that you are applying to erie and seton hill even though you only have one school on the list?
 
The Erie/Seton hill admissions runs together, so you specify later on if you want Erie or Seton Hill... I didn't want Seton hill, so I was accepted to Erie...

FYI, in the LDP pathway you are required to attend ALL lectures and MUST wear business clothes at all times during business hours at school. If you cannot adhere to wearing a business clothes everyday, and do not want to sit in lectures 8hrs/day, I would say skip LECOM...
 
The Erie/Seton hill admissions runs together, so you specify later on if you want Erie or Seton Hill... I didn't want Seton hill, so I was accepted to Erie...

FYI, in the LDP pathway you are required to attend ALL lectures and MUST wear business clothes at all times during business hours at school. If you cannot adhere to wearing a business clothes everyday, and do not want to sit in lectures 8hrs/day, I would say skip LECOM...

All LECOMs are that way? Crap.
 
if I do 2 years of my medical school again, I would choose PBL. it helps integrating materials better and keeps it interesting. Just my opinion

I think lots of schools are changing their curriculum and adopt PBL more. i think it is a right way to do. Maybe it helps w/ boards? LECOM-B has a very high COMLEX passing rate
 
if I do 2 years of my medical school again, I would choose PBL. it helps integrating materials better and keeps it interesting. Just my opinion

I think lots of schools are changing their curriculum and adopt PBL more. i think it is a right way to do. Maybe it helps w/ boards? LECOM-B has a very high COMLEX passing rate

I am very interested in PBL. The allo school I'm interested in has it during year 2. The DO school I'm applying to does systems, I believe...although they did just revamp the curriculum (MSUCOM).
 
Why don't you guys like PBL?

I just didn't like the way the information was presented and learned in that setting. My only experience with it is sitting in on a PBL session (small group) at my girlfriend's medical school.
 
I am very interested in PBL. The allo school I'm interested in has it during year 2. The DO school I'm applying to does systems, I believe...although they did just revamp the curriculum (MSUCOM).

Is the allo school you are referring to MSUCHM?
 
LECOM also does things that artificially inflate their scores, like they don't allow you to take the test unless you score a certain percentage on their practice tests, that is part of the reason they have such a high first-time pass rate.

Are all LECOM's that way? Yes, at ALL LECOM campuses attendance is mandatory for your pathway and you MUST wear business attire during regular hours.

I didn't mind the PBL pathway idea, I just don't like the concept of paying 30k/yr to teach myself medicine... I would be moving to Erie right now if I hadn't been accepted to my top school... PBL isn't a bad thing, it DOES work, for SOME people, you have to be a pretty decent reader, and if you are, PBL is awesome, if you're not, it may not go so well...
 
LECOM also does things that artificially inflate their scores, like they don't allow you to take the test unless you score a certain percentage on their practice tests, that is part of the reason they have such a high first-time pass rate.

Are all LECOM's that way? Yes, at ALL LECOM campuses attendance is mandatory for your pathway and you MUST wear business attire during regular hours.

I didn't mind the PBL pathway idea, I just don't like the concept of paying 30k/yr to teach myself medicine... I would be moving to Erie right now if I hadn't been accepted to my top school... PBL isn't a bad thing, it DOES work, for SOME people, you have to be a pretty decent reader, and if you are, PBL is awesome, if you're not, it may not go so well...

I don't like the idea of being required to attend lecture. I don't mind the dress code as much though.

My girlfriend just finished MS2 and her school records all the lectures.
 
Yeah, that's how RVU is, and I was PBL at Erie because of this, I can handle dressing that way for a few hours a few times each week, but I don't want to sit in dress shoes all day every day... OH... I forgot, you can't have ANY food or drink (even water) in the lecture halls... I would die, I need snacks every 2 hours or so... all things to consider when applying...
 
Is the allo school you are referring to MSUCHM?

Yes!! I'm in love with both programs but am leaning toward CHM because it's more affordable and I'm a strong proponent of the social mission. I know I'd be happy with either program though. You are attending CHM, right?
 
Yeah, that's how RVU is, and I was PBL at Erie because of this, I can handle dressing that way for a few hours a few times each week, but I don't want to sit in dress shoes all day every day... OH... I forgot, you can't have ANY food or drink (even water) in the lecture halls... I would die, I need snacks every 2 hours or so... all things to consider when applying...

Thanks for all the LECOM info.. Sounds like med school prison.

**Mandatory attendance
**Dress code anywhere on campus
**No food/drink in class

All the LECOMs have officially been taken off my AACOMAS. I'm like you, I need to have some kind of snack every couple of hours.
 
Yeah, that's how RVU is, and I was PBL at Erie because of this, I can handle dressing that way for a few hours a few times each week, but I don't want to sit in dress shoes all day every day... OH... I forgot, you can't have ANY food or drink (even water) in the lecture halls... I would die, I need snacks every 2 hours or so... all things to consider when applying...

Screw that. Nuh uh not for me! I need food to stay awake in class. :scared:
 
Screw that. Nuh uh not for me! I need food to stay awake in class. :scared:

Yea! I mean, I know everyone is different, but what's so special about LECOM that makes people want to go there despite all the rules. It's like being in high school all over again.
 
Yea! I mean, I know everyone is different, but what's so special about LECOM that makes people want to go there despite all the rules. It's like being in high school all over again.

I'm not gonna lie, until this thread I was considering LECOM a top choice after Western-Lebanon. I'd like to be close to my wife's family in Portland. I'll prob still apply and even interview at LECOM if I can because I have to get in SOMEWHERE but dang...:laugh:
 
I'm not gonna lie, until this thread I was considering LECOM a top choice after Western-Lebanon. I'd like to be close to my wife's family in Portland. I'll prob still apply and even interview at LECOM if I can because I have to get in SOMEWHERE but dang...:laugh:

You can probably go to any DO school you want with your stats and ECs. And who knows, maybe Aug 2013 will be the first year of many changes at LECOM :xf:
 
well i dont really care about snacks or dress codes, but i dont think i have what it takes to do PBL. med school is hard. PBL seems quite daunting to me
 
You can probably go to any DO school you want with your stats and ECs. And who knows, maybe Aug 2013 will be the first year of many changes at LECOM :xf:

You are too kind. I will crap a brick if I get in. lol
PBL is intimidating to me as well. I think I might do ok with it, but I don't want to take the chance. Can you switch pathways after a little while? Obviously you'd have to be at a campus that offers multiple pathways but anyone know if it's possible?
 
I'm confused why PBL is inherently harder than the other methods. Can someone explain?
 
I'm confused why PBL is inherently harder than the other methods. Can someone explain?

Maybe i'm thinking of small groups and mostly learning on your own type of things...uh is that not PBL? I may be showing my ignorance here...
 
Maybe i'm thinking of small groups and mostly learning on your own type of things...uh is that not PBL? I may be showing my ignorance here...

That's my understanding of PBL as well, but don't most students learn the majority of first and second year on their own anyway?
 
That's my understanding of PBL as well, but don't most students learn the majority of first and second year on their own anyway?

I guess I thought that PBL you would be given a specific problem and then you go sift through loads of resources to learn about it on your own and come up with treatment options, contraindications, etc and then present to your group. Ok, maybe it's not that bad but I am so used to sitting in a lecture and just having the info presented that I think I would be more comfortable with that.
PBL sounds interesting and I would like to try it but just scared of not feeling guided enough...hmm.
 
LECOM also does things that artificially inflate their scores, like they don't allow you to take the test unless you score a certain percentage on their practice tests, that is part of the reason they have such a high first-time pass rate.

Drives me up a wall to read things like this.
EVERY school has fail-safes in place for their students, not to protect their 'first time pass rate'. LECOM makes a "mock board exam" built to run the entire 400q length of a COMLEX.
Others schools either mandate a COMSAE with a minimum passing score, and some just flat out have a GPA requirement for you to sit.

And would you like to know the reality? People are LUCKY their school will put the brakes on if you're not ready to sit for that test. You get one shot. Failure will SERIOUSLY hamper your shots at a good residency. Will it block you completely? Probably... but may as well drop those dreams of Ortho or Anesthesiology.

People have a tough time stepping back and taking a peak at the bigger picture - namely... these "minimum requirements to sit" are the things that very well may end up saving your butt. Are they inflated 'first pass' rates? Nope... they're a reflection of a school that will make sure you sit for the test when you're ready and don't tank your career.

/rant
 
My point is that PBL doesn't necessarily produce any higher scores than any other schools. It is unfair to say that it is the best method for teaching based on Comlex scores.

At LECOM you can *sometimes* switch pathways, it is NOT guaranteed.

As for PBL, you are given a case, chapters to read, and you're expected to read ~30+ chapters every day or so. Then you come back talk about what you learned and read more chapters. You have to read & learn the material yourself with limited help from faculty. It is great for some people, it is certain doom for others. It tends to be a better pathway for Non-trad students...
 
it wasn't a commentary on the pathways at LECOM... it was a general comment regarding "inflated first-time pass rates" for COMLEX. The best pathway is going to be the one that best facilitates your learning. The best school is going to be the one that offers you the education that will work for YOU.

sorry - it just drives me nuts when people accuse schools (any school) of inflating their board pass rates
 
My point is that PBL doesn't necessarily produce any higher scores than any other schools. It is unfair to say that it is the best method for teaching based on Comlex scores.

At LECOM you can *sometimes* switch pathways, it is NOT guaranteed.

As for PBL, you are given a case, chapters to read, and you're expected to read ~30+ chapters every day or so. Then you come back talk about what you learned and read more chapters. You have to read & learn the material yourself with limited help from faculty. It is great for some people, it is certain doom for others. It tends to be a better pathway for Non-trad students...

No way someone could read 30 chapters of a textbook in a single day. It takes at least 1 hour to read and understand one chapter.
 
No way someone could read 30 chapters of a textbook in a single day. It takes at least 1 hour to read and understand one chapter.

SUMMARY IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ THIS POST:

I'm explaining what LECOM's PBL is because there seems to be some debate above. I am not advocating or criticizing it, just laying out the daily process. If you have no interest, skip my post!

Yeah it's not 30 chapters a day although 30 chapters a test sounds about right depending on page length. At LECOM, when you get up and running (after anatomy, embryo, histo, etc etc) it comes out to about 40 pages a day (or 80 pages for each meeting which occurs every other day).

To clarify LECOM's PBL. Basically you're looking at an episode of House. You're given a chief complaint (they can be very vague as in "my leg hurts" or my "bite is off") and one person is assigned as the "physician." This person does their best to take a thorough history of the patient through a mock interview (another student has a "script" of what to say). Once that's done, everyone contributes a diagnosis that they think is reasonable and it goes "on the board" House style. You're then given a write up of the patient's physical (not reasonable to actually do one in the room, obviously) and you adjust your thoughts/ddx based on that.

After that it's really a session of "hey if he's feeling this and his physical showed this, we should test his x." The facilitator in the room will end up handing out the results of these "tests" and you interpret them and so on and so forth until you reach the conclusion of the case.

The cases are based on real cases from the local area.

After you reach the end or run out of time, you literally choose your own reading. You're given a page minimum and some requirements such as: must be entire headings, minimum 7 page runs, etc. So if you had a case about a guy who had pneumonia maybe you'd pick the lung physio chapters to learn the lungs. Then maybe you'd throw some path about respiratory infections in there. If it was a case of PKU maybe you throw some biochem in there.

Your exams are based on these readings plus required assigned readings from the faculty. These are based on the cases and refer to the lab tests and some other stuff presented in the case that they think is specifically important. Each group actually gets its own exam based on what it chose.

I was nervous about us "picking" our readings but you'd be amazed at how often groups choose damn near the exact same readings. The faculty has a goal in mind with each case and apparently it works.

Anyway, in the end the challenge of PBL is that your knowledge comes from your reading. To me, that's not a problem because I don't absorb info from a lecture; I do much better being able to chill in my apartment with some coffee and read through chapters myself. Even in past lectures I'd end up doing this so I figured I'd cut out the middle man.

I don't think PBL is better than LDP, just better for people like me. Some people can look at slides and memorize the material in a heartbeat. For them LDP is probably sweet.

As for the board scores, my guess is that we do so much reading and preparing on our own that prepping for the boards is kinda just like studying for another exam. Maybe not but that's just my guess (haven't taken boards...that's for next year).
 
Yes!! I'm in love with both programs but am leaning toward CHM because it's more affordable and I'm a strong proponent of the social mission. I know I'd be happy with either program though. You are attending CHM, right?

Great. I was accepted at both programs. Do not make any decisions based on cost because if you are instate the way they present the tuition during the first year totals is misleading. Just because COM is 36k the first year and CHM is 28k the first year does not mean that this is how it is every year. Tuition fluctuates between whether you are an M1, M2, M3, M4. When you actually add up the 4 years of tuition at both schools, from the 2011 tuition budget sheets which you can find online, you will see that COM is actually cheaper tuition wise (CHM $125,736; COM $122,598). So do not think you are saving money by going to either school. Take everything else into account. If you have any questions feel free to PM.
 
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My point is that PBL doesn't necessarily produce any higher scores than any other schools. It is unfair to say that it is the best method for teaching based on Comlex scores.

At LECOM you can *sometimes* switch pathways, it is NOT guaranteed.

As for PBL, you are given a case, chapters to read, and you're expected to read ~30+ chapters every day or so. Then you come back talk about what you learned and read more chapters. You have to read & learn the material yourself with limited help from faculty. It is great for some people, it is certain doom for others. It tends to be a better pathway for Non-trad students...

It does most likely produce higher scores(this isn't the best experiment ever, but not the worst). At Erie PBL has the highest scores, followed by ISP and LDP is the lowest(still very good though).

You don't have someone holding your hand through the whole process and you have to do a lot of reading outside of class. If you think about it though whether you sit in class and have a guy talk at you or you sit in class and talk through a problem with your classmates you are going to have to go home and read/study the material from that day. If you don't do that you aren't going to do well anywhere. Also whether you are in a lecture curriculum or PBL you are responsible for everything in your phys, path, immuno, pharm, biochem, microbio, behavioral science, and genetics books when it comes time for the boards. When questions are written for the boards they have to include a reference page from one of the approved texts for the topic of the question. You are going to read the material one way or another.

I personally don't think there is any magic in PBL, but from my experience here in Bradenton it appears that it's just repetition that gives us a higher pass rate and avg score than most, if not all. I am finished with my first year and I have covered every system and the related topics(pharm, path, etc) in the body. We haven't done microbio yet, but that is the beginning of second year. Then we move on to doing the systems again to complete whatever gaps we may have after the first year.

I just want to add I'm not condoning PBL for everyone. Pretty much everyone can do well in it as long as you aren't completely lazy, but lecture is/can be better for some people.
 
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There is a TON of mis-information being spread on PBL (minus Wolverine and Gator) and LECOM in general (I've already given up on defending LECOM, I'll just keep on enjoying it here despite the haters).

If it's not for you, that's fine. But the whole "I don't want to spend 30k teaching myself" is just wrong.

Many LDP students are clamoring to be in PBL after a month of LDP (I would know, I was one of them). But the whole "I don't want to spend 30k teaching myself" is just wrong. PBL have 8 students to one professor first year and separate OPP and H&P labs. PBL gets personal lectures on ekgs, neuro, micro, pharm, etc. OMS2 cases are done working with a physician in that specialty (1 per 8 students) and all of our exams are customized to our groups learning objectives which we select.

When it all boils down, you're left with the option of having class from 8AM-4PM M-F and then going home to study for 5 hours, or having a 2 hour meeting three times a week, selecting objectives and reading at whichever time suits you best.

There are definitely some cons, and as I said it's not for everyone, but make sure you know the facts before you bash. /end rant
 
Drives me up a wall to read things like this.
EVERY school has fail-safes in place for their students, not to protect their 'first time pass rate'. LECOM makes a "mock board exam" built to run the entire 400q length of a COMLEX.
Others schools either mandate a COMSAE with a minimum passing score, and some just flat out have a GPA requirement for you to sit.

And would you like to know the reality? People are LUCKY their school will put the brakes on if you're not ready to sit for that test. You get one shot. Failure will SERIOUSLY hamper your shots at a good residency. Will it block you completely? Probably... but may as well drop those dreams of Ortho or Anesthesiology.

People have a tough time stepping back and taking a peak at the bigger picture - namely... these "minimum requirements to sit" are the things that very well may end up saving your butt. Are they inflated 'first pass' rates? Nope... they're a reflection of a school that will make sure you sit for the test when you're ready and don't tank your career.

/rant

it wasn't a commentary on the pathways at LECOM... it was a general comment regarding "inflated first-time pass rates" for COMLEX. The best pathway is going to be the one that best facilitates your learning. The best school is going to be the one that offers you the education that will work for YOU.

sorry - it just drives me nuts when people accuse schools (any school) of inflating their board pass rates

It does most likely produce higher scores(this isn't the best experiment ever, but not the worst). At Erie PBL has the highest scores, followed by ISP and LDP is the lowest(still very good though).

You don't have someone holding your hand through the whole process and you have to do a lot of reading outside of class. If you think about it though whether you sit in class and have a guy talk at you or you sit in class and talk through a problem with your classmates you are going to have to go home and read/study the material from that day. If you don't do that you aren't going to do well anywhere. Also whether you are in a lecture curriculum or PBL you are responsible for everything in your phys, path, immuno, pharm, biochem, microbio, behavioral science, and genetics books when it comes time for the boards. When questions are written for the boards they have to include a reference page from one of the approved texts for the topic of the question. You are going to read the material one way or another.

I personally don't think there is any magic in PBL, but from my experience here in Bradenton it appears that it's just repetition that gives us a higher pass rate and avg score than most, if not all. I am finished with my first year and I have covered every system and the related topics(pharm, path, etc) in the body. We haven't done microbio yet, but that is the beginning of second year. Then we move on to doing the systems again to complete whatever gaps we may have after the first year.

I just want to add I'm not condoning PBL for everyone. Pretty much everyone can do well in it as long as you aren't completely lazy, but lecture is/can be better for some people.

There is a TON of mis-information being spread on PBL (minus Wolverine and Gator) and LECOM in general (I've already given up on defending LECOM, I'll just keep on enjoying it here despite the haters).

If it's not for you, that's fine. But the whole "I don't want to spend 30k teaching myself" is just wrong.

Many LDP students are clamoring to be in PBL after a month of LDP (I would know, I was one of them). But the whole "I don't want to spend 30k teaching myself" is just wrong. PBL have 8 students to one professor first year and separate OPP and H&P labs. PBL gets personal lectures on ekgs, neuro, micro, pharm, etc. OMS2 cases are done working with a physician in that specialty (1 per 8 students) and all of our exams are customized to our groups learning objectives which we select.

When it all boils down, you're left with the option of having class from 8AM-4PM M-F and then going home to study for 5 hours, or having a 2 hour meeting three times a week, selecting objectives and reading at whichever time suits you best.

There are definitely some cons, and as I said it's not for everyone, but make sure you know the facts before you bash. /end rant

👍
 
There is a TON of mis-information being spread on PBL (minus Wolverine and Gator) and LECOM in general (I've already given up on defending LECOM, I'll just keep on enjoying it here despite the haters).

If it's not for you, that's fine. But the whole "I don't want to spend 30k teaching myself" is just wrong.

Many LDP students are clamoring to be in PBL after a month of LDP (I would know, I was one of them). But the whole "I don't want to spend 30k teaching myself" is just wrong. PBL have 8 students to one professor first year and separate OPP and H&P labs. PBL gets personal lectures on ekgs, neuro, micro, pharm, etc. OMS2 cases are done working with a physician in that specialty (1 per 8 students) and all of our exams are customized to our groups learning objectives which we select.

When it all boils down, you're left with the option of having class from 8AM-4PM M-F and then going home to study for 5 hours, or having a 2 hour meeting three times a week, selecting objectives and reading at whichever time suits you best.

There are definitely some cons, and as I said it's not for everyone, but make sure you know the facts before you bash. /end rant

Thanks for the insight into the inner workings of PBL. Sounds like it could be great. The closer interaction with a professor would be great I think.
 
Thanks for the insight into the inner workings of PBL. Sounds like it could be great. The closer interaction with a professor would be great I think.

You mean facilitator? 😉 I kid, I know what you mean. Still, there is not as much "professing" going on in PBL. At least not from what I saw during my interview at LECOM.
 
PBL is inherently teaching oneself. That is the whole point of it. YOU read the chapters, YOU do all the work, and a 'facilitator' nudges you in the right direction IF you are off the path. Don't kid yourself that you aren't teaching yourself the material. It is nearly impossible to go sit in on a lecture because they may or may not be in the same spot your group is, and if you're having trouble your only options are get a classmate to explain it, or hope that a prof has time to meet with you and help you out... I was specifically told at Bradenton if you are a slow reader or have trouble learning from books you would NOT find much success in the PBL pathway... and you would not have much in the way of additional resources...

Do I 'hate' LECOM? No, but I did point out that if you're choosing LDP, there are things you should know first. Like the no food/water rule. It is ridiculous to expect that all people can or should abide by this, it is actually medically unsound as it has been proven that snacking on healthy snacks many times per day is a healthier option than eating 2-3x only. So a med school cares more about keeping it's chairs clean than it's students health? Maybe... or keeping a certain image up for certain...
 
PBL is inherently teaching oneself. That is the whole point of it. YOU read the chapters, YOU do all the work, and a 'facilitator' nudges you in the right direction IF you are off the path. Don't kid yourself that you aren't teaching yourself the material. It is nearly impossible to go sit in on a lecture because they may or may not be in the same spot your group is, and if you're having trouble your only options are get a classmate to explain it, or hope that a prof has time to meet with you and help you out... I was specifically told at Bradenton if you are a slow reader or have trouble learning from books you would NOT find much success in the PBL pathway... and you would not have much in the way of additional resources...

Do I 'hate' LECOM? No, but I did point out that if you're choosing LDP, there are things you should know first. Like the no food/water rule. It is ridiculous to expect that all people can or should abide by this, it is actually medically unsound as it has been proven that snacking on healthy snacks many times per day is a healthier option than eating 2-3x only. So a med school cares more about keeping it's chairs clean than it's students health? Maybe... or keeping a certain image up for certain...

And....breeeeaaaaathe. Deep breaths.... 😉

But you're right in that if you don't read quickly, you will a harder time than others. That said, you have plenty of time to read during the day so even if you're a "meh" reader, you'll do fine, you'll just spend more time reading. Plus, you'll get faster as time goes on.

I interviewed at Bradenton and Erie. I'm pretty sure the faculty at Bradenton purposely make PBL sound extremely difficult for a variety of reasons...maybe to weed people out? Who knows. But there was a lot of cheerleading for it down there.

As far as extra help goes, it's as simple as contacting the faculty member of the subject material. Here, at least, if we (as a group) are really stuck on something, they're more than happy to sit down and go over stuff with us. The notion that you're completely on your own is inaccurate; if you're truly stuck on something, the faculty will help.
 
Also, this is medical school, there aren't many difficult concepts. It is hard because of volume not because of complexity. Unless you are trying to brown nose there aren't many concepts that you need a professor to clarify for you(i haven't had any yet). If you need help all of the professors here are more than willing to help.

I am a slow reader and even I don't have any issues reading all my test topics at least 4 times before tests. I also have time to outline all of my test topics and read review books AND I don't study 10 hours a day. Usually I study for 5-7 hours including time spent in PBL
 
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