Is it because of loans, time, etc?
Who here regrets med school?
- Thread starter Kale01
- Start date
- Joined
- May 22, 2008
- Messages
- 17,394
- Reaction score
- 9,129
It's important to remember that medical school is a means to an end. Medical school is not the entirety of your career as a physician. Medical school hasn't been the most pleasant and enjoyable experience, but it's a necessity to what I think will ultimately be a pleasant and enjoyable career.
Take that for what you will.
Take that for what you will.
This is true, it is just difficult when the training lasts so long and uses up almost all of your time and the best years of your life. I often regret it.
- Joined
- May 17, 2009
- Messages
- 1,354
- Reaction score
- 761
I regret it some days and wonder if it would have been better for me to do shorter programs like PA, or pursue other interests. It's not an easy process, and I often wonder if it will be worth it.
However, I could end up being very happy with this choice years from now also. Time will tell...
However, I could end up being very happy with this choice years from now also. Time will tell...
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 9,907
- Reaction score
- 10,037
I don't think I regret MS1-MS2. Yeah it was tough, and really overwhelming at times, but overall I had time to do the things I enjoyed and didn't feel like I was wasting my life away.
When I was studying for boards, I regretted everything. It was a very miserable few months.
I'm really enjoying 3rd year so far, it feels like the light at the end of the pre-clinical tunnel. I still definitely have a LOT to learn, including developing a thicker skin for tough attendings, and a lot of rotations to get through yet, but so far I have been looking forward to going to work every day. There are still sucky days (see: tough attendings) but overall I can really see myself doing this for the rest of my life.
When I was studying for boards, I regretted everything. It was a very miserable few months.
I'm really enjoying 3rd year so far, it feels like the light at the end of the pre-clinical tunnel. I still definitely have a LOT to learn, including developing a thicker skin for tough attendings, and a lot of rotations to get through yet, but so far I have been looking forward to going to work every day. There are still sucky days (see: tough attendings) but overall I can really see myself doing this for the rest of my life.
This
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
So true. Medical school and residency can sometimes eat up at your soul. The level of delayed gratification and then being told upon graduation that the NP/PA is just as smart as you is insult upon injury. All the more reason to only do the MD route if you TRULY can't see yourself as doing anything else.
I think the best test is this: If you went thru premed and med school, and at the end you were only allowed to do Family Medicine (and not concierge/direct pay either), would you still invest 6 figures in student loans to do it?
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
Yeah, it takes a while. Attendings and residents in certain specialties.
No, absolutely not.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
The answer will be different for different people. Some people get full merit scholarships for their 4 years of medical school (not me) - so the above financial scenario doesn't apply and they'd be perfectly happy doing FM. Point is if you're ok with the FM endpoint at a minimum, then you'll meet if not exceed your expectations.
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 9,907
- Reaction score
- 10,037
Hopefully I can get tougher before I encounter the notoriously tough rotations. I welcome and appreciate constructive criticism, but I need to learn to not crumble at an insult...
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
I think that's the key. You sometimes have to look at the comment objectively and assess whether it is really a criticism or not. This might help.
I wouldn't even do it if I had a free ride to med school... But you are right in that it is a good test to see if the MD route is right for you.
The thing I came to realize most in medical school is how valuable time is. I never realized it before because I had plenty of free time in high school and undergrad and could do whatever I wanted. In med school that whole situation changed. I had to actually budget time. I really don't like that. If I could go back I'm not sure I would choose medicine again. I would choose something slower paced with a lot more free time. Yes it would definitely pay a lot less, but at this point, I'm willing to pay half my salary to just get some free time.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
Not surprising. The research has chosen that millenial medical students value lifestyle over salary (compared to prior generations). There has been a generational shift of the fields med students are pursuing in large numbers bc of this trend.
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 9,907
- Reaction score
- 10,037
I had completely forgotten about that book, I'll definitely check it out. And yeah, looking back objectively on that encounter, I can see the points he was making and although he was harsh, that's probably just his teaching style. And it forced me to step up my game, so there's that benefit too. But I guess I need to train myself to look at it objectively in the moment and not take it as a personal insult. :/
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
Helps to sometimes ask at the beginning of the rotation how that person like presentations to go. Each attending is different: Some are more traditional, others just want you to give the jist. Key is to be proactive, don't lose your cool (and there will be times you want to punch the wall - esp. with certain residents), ask for midrotation feedback, and just remember they can't stop the clock - 4 or 8 weeks and then it's over. Oh and crush the shelf exam.
The funny thing about that is that people end up working way harder in med school and residency, so they can work less later on.
I want more free time so I can read more and learn more about things other than medicine, and develop skills and hobbies outside of medicine. I don't want to just be focused in on one thing my whole life and be lacking in every other area of knowledge and experience. I also don't want to wait until I'm 60 to do this.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
Yup, pretty much put in the hard work at the front end vs. at the back end.
Yes, Slide 7: https://www.aamc.org/download/283608/data/minor-communcatingeffectively.pdf
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 9,907
- Reaction score
- 10,037
Yeah I had 3 attendings all last month so I learned quickly that I had to juggle different presentation styles depending on the attending(s) I was with that day, so this month I was more upfront about asking how they wanted me to present. My main issue is adjusting from doing the routine checklist H&P's that we were trained like monkeys to do in MS1/MS2 to all of a sudden doing a focused H&P, asking all the necessary clarifying questions, and creating an A/P on the fly while presenting not even 2 minutes after leaving the patient's room. I had never presented before last month, let alone created an A/P without being able to look stuff up first or having time to synthesize. Most attendings I've worked with have been really understanding that this is the first rotation and there will be a bit of a learning curve (while still pushing us to do it and get used to it quickly), but then I get yelled at and insulted for forgetting to ask what was apparently a common sense clarifying question for something a patient said. But hey, now I'll never forget!
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
It's a balancing act. A head-to-toe H&P is utterly useless in the real clinical world, esp. in a note. I think the stress comes from wanting to get "Honors" to where the general feeling is that you have to be perfect and on point w/o mistakes to get it. Not really true, but it can feel that way. Also getting you to think about the A/P and why things are the way they are and knowing certain nuances - antibiotic days, post-op days, etc.Yeah I had 3 attendings all last month so I learned quickly that I had to juggle different presentation styles depending on the attending(s) I was with that day, so this month I was more upfront about asking how they wanted me to present. My main issue is adjusting from doing the routine checklist H&P's that we were trained like monkeys to do in MS1/MS2 to all of a sudden doing a focused H&P, asking all the necessary clarifying questions, and creating an A/P on the fly while presenting not even 2 minutes after leaving the patient's room. I had never presented before last month, let alone created an A/P without being able to look stuff up first or having time to synthesize. Most attendings I've worked with have been really understanding that this is the first rotation and there will be a bit of a learning curve (while still pushing us to do it and get used to it quickly), but then I get yelled at and insulted for forgetting to ask what was apparently a common sense clarifying question for something a patient said. But hey, now I'll never forget!
This can also help:
http://www.amazon.com/Samir-P.-Desai/e/B001K7WMKS/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1407127752&sr=8-1
Based on what I know now, I would have gone top undergrad business school (HBS/Wharton/equivalent) to finance with no loans. People I know who did this who are in their late twenties make 500k+ in NYC. THey work a ton, but they could just work for a few years and then retire and invest the money and do whatever they really want while earning interest. Finance people in NYC from top schools make so much more money than pretty much anyone else after a few years with minimal schooling (4 years undergrad). You become a millionaire in your 30s and can retire to do whatever you want.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
And your job is very much at the whim of the economy. Just ask those who worked for Lehman Brothers.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2011
- Messages
- 221
- Reaction score
- 150
Sometimes I regret not becoming a Foreign Service Officer traveling the world for Uncle Sam or a Swiss chocolatier. But then I remember that saying about the color of the grass on the other side...
I was very close to going the FSO path, until I saw a consular officer in an East Asian country drinking a bottle of wine by himself at restaurant. It's an asocial job that requires that you say what other people want you to say at all time. You are a representative and little more. At least in medicine, you can have an opinion.
The economy is a lot better now. Plus you'd have saved up so much money in a few years, who cares if yous till have a job. All you need to do is work hard for maybe max 10 years, then retire at 4 percent interest.
That's my dream -have 10mm in the bank earning 4% interest. Then me doing whatever the **** I want. Right now I'd be happy with 2mm though.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
Except there are frequent boom and bust cycles now.
- Joined
- May 21, 2013
- Messages
- 16
- Reaction score
- 8
^THIS. If you are really good and can last longer and successfully start your own shop, you can make TENS or even HUNDREDS of millions a year. (I have a family friend in his 50s making HUNDREDS of millions a year in finance and he doesn't work very much because his employees do all the work, he just has to give talks and keep his investors happy). Yes, they don't make as money when the economy goes to ****, like in 2008-2010, but when the economy recovers such as now, they make a killing.
I so wished I gunned for an ivy league undergrad in high school.
wishing to get into an Ivy League school is like me wishing I could marry Victoria Secret supermodel Alessandra Ambrosio.
If investment banking were so easy simple and direct students would scramble to get into it, like how people are heading towards health care and engineering (specifically computer science)
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2011
- Messages
- 221
- Reaction score
- 150
I bet he's divorced.
- Joined
- May 21, 2013
- Messages
- 16
- Reaction score
- 8
No, he is happily married with kids. He says he doesn't want a divorce because he would have to divide his assets.
My example is atypical because he founded one of the top 100 funds in the country. This guy is definitely not dumb. The real money in finance is in asset management where you take a percentage of the assets as well as performance fees. The money is investment banking is actually lower because accumulated firm assets can be much larger than deal flow dollars done in a year.
Regardless, if one went to an ivy undergrad and got the RIGHT job out of college, gaining the RIGHT experiences, then making a ton of money in finance IS possible. I'm not saying that that path is easy to obtain, it is not, but it probably would have been obtainable to the top half of med students if they knew about it earlier on and really cared about making a lot of money.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 2,752
- Reaction score
- 657
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 2,752
- Reaction score
- 657
Haha, that's hilarious that someone had to make a presentation about how to communicate with "different types" of medical students. What a bunch of BS. One more F****** worthless powerpoint presentation.
Is "indulged" a special, confident, team-oriented, or achieving trait? (I can see it on the next exam).
It amazes me how much of academia is utterly worthless crap.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
- 6,270
- Reaction score
- 2,528
Sometimes I regret not becoming a Foreign Service Officer traveling the world for Uncle Sam or a Swiss chocolatier. But then I remember that saying about the color of the grass on the other side...
French Foreign Legion?
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2014
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 91
slide 7 and 8 is probably some of the most insulting things that I have read in quite some time.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
Yes, I thought so too, although not surprised as the person who made the Powerpoint would likely be a Baby Boomer.
Attachments
Last edited:
Yeah, in the end, I'd much rather travel on my own terms.
No, the people who work for embassies and consulates as diplomats or administrative staff (ie issues visas).
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 134
- Reaction score
- 45
Wall Street is filled with people just as smart as medical students but far more extroverted. To get to this point you're talking about, you would have to work harder than you ever have in medical school for 10+ years to make partner. And after all that work you never have any guarantee of success like you do with medicine. I'm not saying you can't do it, but to reach the top 1% of Wall Street is far more difficult than you're portraying.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2014
- Messages
- 4,509
- Reaction score
- 4,132
lol yes. I love how the sentiment is that a) making your own fund is easy b) getting that fund to generate hundreds of millions of dollars for you is easy. Like come on, are we back to pre-med? I'm pretty sure if you're someone that wants to light the world on fire from a business perspective, you'd be able do that with medicine too... It might be harder, but if you're really that much of a stud where you'd get it done in other industries, I'd wager you'd find a way to make it work with medicine too.
The people on this forum's outlook on wall street is hilarious to me. Easy advice for any situation: If something seems too good to be true, it probably is. If significant amounts of high quality HS student could do well in undergrad and get into a top business school and then make 500k in their 20s, they'd do it. That's just not reasonable on average, even for high quality candidates. I feel like the people who propagate this **** know 1-2 complete studs that are a) smart as f*ck, as in more than 2+ SD above the mean smart, ie smart as f*ck b) work their *sses off, like even more than most medical students Yes those 1-2 people are doing it, but they're a different breed, even from high quality candidates, and they hustle their *sses off to do it.
Good for them and they deserve it, just saying, if finance was all sunshine and rainbows, I'm pretty sure everyone would do it, it would become over saturated and then you'd have less sunshine and rainbows.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2013
- Messages
- 2,238
- Reaction score
- 3,214
My sister has taken the exam a couple times, but never got the complete pass (both written and oral exams). A couple of her friends from grad school have done it. They seem to be having fun as young couples travelling the world. My sister has two kids now so her plans have changed a bit.
Yeah, I know someone who took it but apparently having worked for an NGO who was critical of the US government got her application flagged and she didn't get it. Given that, I doubt I'd be successful either given my background.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2014
- Messages
- 863
- Reaction score
- 1,501
There are times where I realize I'd have been really happy making 50k at a software job, or maybe a bit more in a math/stat. based field. Especially now that I've got a SO living with me.
It kind of sucks, because if I had known I'd meet someone like her this early, I might have lived a different life. What single dadaddadabatman wanted is totally different than what I want now.
But honestly, I do love what I'm doing at the moment (rising m2, so take that for what it's worth). I think I knew what I was getting myself into, and I don't think I'd have been as happy with any other career. I guess what I mean to say is that this is the path where I will be happiest AT work, but that's really only a fragment of life. In medicine, it's a pretty large fragment.
But I think a lot of this is "grass is greener" syndrome. My SO works in one of the software type jobs I was referring to, and she's pretty unhappy. She also goes to work around 7:30 and frequently doesn't get back till 6-6:30pm...so it's not exactly a 40 hour week.
The could haves, would haves, and should haves will consume you if you let them. It's important to consider alternatives, but it's equally important to look for the positives in our current path. I'm overjoyed that I'm going to medical school, and overall, I don't regret it.
Sorry for the rambling response.
- Joined
- May 3, 2006
- Messages
- 4,698
- Reaction score
- 1,675
In regards to that PPT, the last few stuff, is stuff that although is common sense, stuff I wish attendings would focus on. Especially feedback. Frequent feedback(weekly) would make me a happy panda. But, in medical training, feedback is non-existent.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2012
- Messages
- 26
- Reaction score
- 15
Regrets, I've had a few, but then again...
I have my moments where I am not sure if all this will be worth it in the end (rising MSII). I have no physicians or college grads in the family, so I am flying blind. Most of my class come from physician families, so maybe they know something I don't or they just don't know any better either.
I worked for a few years before medical school and today my mother asked me if I wanted to go back to work for them. I think I would rather do MSI on repeat over going back to that hell hole, but second year will be another story.
I guess it is the lack of time and wondering if all this work will pay off in the end, because I just really don't know yet. I have enjoyed most of the experience so far though.
I have my moments where I am not sure if all this will be worth it in the end (rising MSII). I have no physicians or college grads in the family, so I am flying blind. Most of my class come from physician families, so maybe they know something I don't or they just don't know any better either.
I worked for a few years before medical school and today my mother asked me if I wanted to go back to work for them. I think I would rather do MSI on repeat over going back to that hell hole, but second year will be another story.
I guess it is the lack of time and wondering if all this work will pay off in the end, because I just really don't know yet. I have enjoyed most of the experience so far though.
I think the people that will have regrets are the ones that are always telling themselves that life will be better once they get to some future stage. Those people may wake up and realize that the future stage can't compare to what they idealized it to be. I'm a firm believer that you need to find a way to enjoy everything that you do, or at least some aspect of it. Sure, there are always going to be things you won't like doing, but if you can't find any happiness in what you're doing, you probably shouldn't be doing it. It's cliche, but life is too short to spend any chunk of it miserable, no matter how much better you think it'll be on the other side.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
Hope springs eternal. It doesn't necessarily get "better". It changes, but not necessarily better.
I hope it gets better. Especially in 3rd and now 4th year, it's been a constant struggle to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing, what people want from me, etc. I thought after 3rd year I'd feel a little like I know what I'm doing, but I still feel pretty clueless most of the time.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,023
I guess it depends on the specialty you're going for - and matching into it.
I'm going for internal medicine at this point, which I don't really like at all, but haven't got a lot of choice. The only thing to really look forward to is the paycheck at this point... Which I guess is true of most jobs out there. I don't think you're supposed to really "enjoy" medicine as much as tolerate it better than other jobs.
Edit: Of course I've never done another "real" job (not including the transient jobs college kids and teens do), so I don't have much to compare...
Last edited:
