Who here regrets med school?

[tdram]

Your friends will have more savings than you do when u graduate from med school.

And as much as they hate their jobs, they have far more free time to enjoy than you will for a very long time, if ever. Work never goes home with them. They don't look forward to weekends and days off as opportunities to catch up on studying for the next board exam. They're very rarely if ever not going to be well rested. Their job isn't their life.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[KnuxNole]

At least they're getting paid....

True, plus they have crazy amount of free time + not as stressed :O

 

[tdram]

True, plus they have crazy amount of free time + not as stressed :O

Yes, time really is = to money. A lot of money and no time to enjoy it is pointless. A lot of time and no money is also a bad situation to be in. You want something in the middle, enough money and enough time to enjoy it. Medicine is heavily skewed to the first situation.

 

[PsychPod]

Yes, time really is = to money. A lot of money and no time to enjoy it is pointless. A lot of time and no money is also a bad situation to be in. You want something in the middle, enough money and enough time to enjoy it. Medicine is heavily skewed to the first situation.

I think that's an overgeneralization though.

You can have a life and have a good time during med school. The biggest lacking piece is that you won't have 40k+ of spending money like those guys have. And probably dedicating an average of 60-65 hours a week towards medical school/studying. (not bad at all compared to Big4, Consulting, Investment Banking).
The problem is that people like to go med school route to make money.
And all the things they really enjoy require money (traveling, sports cars, etc) so med school sucks for them.
While others enjoy simpler pleasures (lifting/working out, reading, sleeping, basketball, whatever) so they have a good time living modestly during med school and view it as a job.

Med school is like investment banking.
4-7 years of crappy living conditions to be set up for the rest of your life.

Enjoy the journey and not just the destination.

 

[tdram]

I think that's an overgeneralization though.

You can have a life and have a good time during med school. The biggest lacking piece is that you won't have 40k+ of spending money like those guys have. And probably dedicating an average of 60-65 hours a week towards medical school/studying. (not bad at all compared to Big4, Consulting, Investment Banking).
The problem is that people like to go med school route to make money.
And all the things they really enjoy require money (traveling, sports cars, etc) so med school sucks for them.
While others enjoy simpler pleasures (lifting/working out, reading, sleeping, basketball, whatever) so they have a good time living modestly during med school and view it as a job.

Med school is like investment banking.
4-7 years of crappy living conditions to be set up for the rest of your life.

Enjoy the journey and not just the destination.

60-65 hours a week only? You must be really efficient at studying. I have been doing a lot more than that and still only getting mediocre scores. In 3rd year rotations + studying left me with almost no time at all, ever. I may be dumb, but given that I am scoring right in the middle of the class, seems that at least half of the class must be in a similar boat.

 

[PsychPod]

60-65 hours a week only? You must be really efficient at studying. I have been doing a lot more than that and still only getting mediocre scores. In 3rd year rotations + studying left me with almost no time at all, ever. I may be dumb, but given that I am scoring right in the middle of the class, seems that at least half of the class must be in a similar boat.

I'm saying it can bump up to well over 70-80 depending what is happening but from what I've heard (once again I'm not in it so I'm not sure exactly) that actual study + classroom time tends to be about 60-65 hours a week on the norm. You say you do a lot more, but how much of your time is actually spent learning/studying, not counting lunch/dinner/hanging out, etc. Just the studying/lectures/etc.

I don't now how 3rd year works at all so I'm unsure of how that goes exactly.

 

[DermViser]

I think that's an overgeneralization though.

You can have a life and have a good time during med school. The biggest lacking piece is that you won't have 40k+ of spending money like those guys have. And probably dedicating an average of 60-65 hours a week towards medical school/studying. (not bad at all compared to Big4, Consulting, Investment Banking).
The problem is that people like to go med school route to make money.
And all the things they really enjoy require money (traveling, sports cars, etc) so med school sucks for them.
While others enjoy simpler pleasures (lifting/working out, reading, sleeping, basketball, whatever) so they have a good time living modestly during med school and view it as a job.

Med school is like investment banking.
4-7 years of crappy living conditions to be set up for the rest of your life.

Enjoy the journey and not just the destination.

Status: Pre-Podiatry

And no med school is not at all like investment banking. This very much depends on specialty with respect to being "set up for the rest of your life". The best you can shoot for with any specialty is job security (at a minimum).

 

[PsychPod]

Status: Pre-Podiatry

And no med school is not at all like investment banking. This very much depends on specialty with respect to being "set up for the rest of your life". The best you can shoot for with any specialty is job security (at a minimum).

Set up for the rest of you life. In other words being middle class to upper middle class to upper class.
Even FP can do that
The average MD is going to make around 180k to 220k a year.

It's JUST like IB in the way you sacrifice your 20's to have a great time in your 30's.

EDIT: You all have more active forums. Being pre-podiatry doesn't mean anything.

 

[PL198]

Set up for the rest of you life. In other words being middle class to upper middle class to upper class.
Even FP can do that
The average MD is going to make around 180k to 220k a year.

It's JUST like IB in the way you sacrifice your 20's to have a great time in your 30's.

EDIT: You all have more active forums. Being pre-podiatry doesn't mean anything.

Yes except the job market for both is completely different. I'd say that IB is much more boom and bust.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Set up for the rest of you life. In other words being middle class to upper middle class to upper class.
Even FP can do that
The average MD is going to make around 180k to 220k a year.

It's JUST like IB in the way you sacrifice your 20's to have a great time in your 30's.

EDIT: You all have more active forums. Being pre-podiatry doesn't mean anything.

I really wouldn't consider medicine or IB in you 30s as having a "great time." You may get to work "less hard," but you still have to work pretty damn hard.

 

[Arkangeloid]

My friends who are out working keep telling me to come visit them, or join them on their trips to the Caribbean.

And I have to say no because "I have to study."


I'm getting pissed.

 

[notbobtrustme]

60-65 hours a week only? You must be really efficient at studying. I have been doing a lot more than that and still only getting mediocre scores. In 3rd year rotations + studying left me with almost no time at all, ever. I may be dumb, but given that I am scoring right in the middle of the class, seems that at least half of the class must be in a similar boat.

60-65 hrs/week is really inefficient though. If you can organize the information well, you can easily get away with half that.

 

[ChEMD]

60-65 hrs/week is really inefficient though. If you can organize the information well, you can easily get away with half that.

I'd like to meet the person that performs at a high level by only studying 30 hours per week (including test weeks).

 

[SierraMist14]

I did NOT regret med school until I started third year two weeks ago...

 

[tdram]

60-65 hrs/week is really inefficient though. If you can organize the information well, you can easily get away with half that.

If you can do 30 hours a week and that's enough studying for you, you are definitely far above average.

 

[EmCEm]

I did NOT regret med school until I started third year two weeks ago...

Can you elaborate?

 

[DermViser]

I did NOT regret med school until I started third year two weeks ago...

I thought SDN folklore says that third year is so much better than the first 2 years?

 

[BurghStudent]

I don't regret it. I just get sad whenever I realize how many more years I have ahead. I know, one at a time.

 

[loltopsy]

The kind of regrets I see often in people I know (and I admit to this to some extent) is the typical imposter syndrome crap. Stuff like 'Maybe I'm not cut out to be a doctor, and I should drop out because X scored two points more than me on that biochem test.'

It's silly, but it's prevalent. Especially those weeks in the spring when you feel burnt out as ****.

 

[Trod]

I thought SDN folklore says that third year is so much better than the first 2 years?

The impression I get from SDN is that 1st and 2nd year are easy compared to 3rd.

 

[DermViser]

The impression I get from SDN is that 1st and 2nd year are easy compared to 3rd.

I guess it depends. There are some people just LOVE MS-3.

 

[Ismet]

The impression I get from SDN is that 1st and 2nd year are easy compared to 3rd.

It's a different kind of difficulty. And longer hours. And your schedule is not your own anymore.

At this point the schedule thing is the kicker for me. I didn't go to class in 1st or 2nd year so my schedule was my own. Now in addition to whatever hours we have to work (hasn't been horrendous yet) our didactic lectures are mandatory. 4 hours of lecture every Monday morning is agony for someone used to podcasting at 2x speed!

 

[Dires]

60-65 hrs/week is really inefficient though. If you can organize the information well, you can easily get away with half that.

I'm assuming we are not including class time. I don't learn **** from watching 2x speed. Might as well casually watch a ted talk.

 

[atomi]

You will go through 10 years of training and incur huge personal and financial expenses to work in one of the most regulated industries in the country (second only to banking) and also one of the most politically screwed up industries in the country. You will go through all of this so you can one day maybe make an extra $50-100k per year, maybe even less. You must absolutely love clinical medicine. How you figure this out without going through M3, M4, and PGY1, I'm not really sure. But you need to be willing to do this without the $250,000/year income carrot hanging in front of you. Because if that's what motivating you, you're in for a world of hurt because (1) you will soon realize that some of your buddies less smart than you who went down different career paths are making close to that by their mid 30s and while they own their own house and business, you are still driving the car your parents gave you when you were 19, and (2) the work isn't worth it if you don't love it. There is no shortage of awful physicians out there who complain about how much they hate their jobs, do as little work as possible, miss obvious diagnoses, take as little responsibility as possible, order unneeded tests, and otherwise practice half-assed evidence-ignorant medicine and surf the web for their next vacation and luxury car while at work. If you go to med school without an active interest in clinical medicine, chances are you'll end up being one of these burned out docs, counting the hours till the day is over and the years until you can retire.

 

[atomi]

You will go through 10 years of training and incur huge personal and financial expenses to work in one of the most regulated industries in the country (second only to banking) and also one of the most politically screwed up industries in the country. You will go through all of this so you can one day maybe make an extra $50-100k per year, maybe even less. You must absolutely love clinical medicine. How you figure this out without going through M3, M4, and PGY1, I'm not really sure. But you need to be willing to do this without the $250,000/year income carrot hanging in front of you. Because if that's what motivating you, you're in for a world of hurt because (1) you will soon realize that some of your buddies less smart than you who went down different career paths are making close to that by their mid 30s and while they own their own house and business, you are still driving the car your parents gave you when you were 19, and (2) the work isn't worth it if you don't love it. There is no shortage of awful physicians out there who complain about how much they hate their jobs, do as little work as possible, miss obvious diagnoses, take as little responsibility as possible, order unneeded tests, and otherwise practice half-assed evidence-ignorant medicine and surf the web for their next vacation and luxury car while at work. If you go to med school without an active interest in clinical medicine, chances are you'll end up being one of these burned out docs, counting the hours till the day is over and the years until you can retire.

 

[SierraMist14]

Can you elaborate?

I thought SDN folklore says that third year is so much better than the first 2 years?

It just sucks. Well, for me at least. Like an above poster said, my time is not my own anymore. I feel like I barely have enough time to study, and most of all, it's just mentally exhausting. I'm only on my first rotation though (and I just so happened to start off with one of the WORST attendings at the hospital) so hopefully it gets better along the way. I actually enjoy interacting with patients and their families; it's everything ELSE that blows (hazing/pimping attendings, cocky fellows, miserable residents and interns). So far, second year has been the absolute best as far as free time and overall happiness (sans step 1 of course).

 

[BestDoctorEver]

60-65 hrs/week is really inefficient though. If you can organize the information well, you can easily get away with half that.

Wut? May be if that school has no mandatory attendance... If the school has mandatory attendance like mine, you should be in the ballpark of 70+ hours just to keep your head above water...

 

[graviton]

 

[tiedyeddog]

I have sometimes felt slivers of regret during MS3. Some of the rotations made me want to literally stop going to school. Starting my Sub-Is have been WAY better. I am working harder on my sub-Is compared to any time during MS3 (100+ hours weeks, I am Q3 call) but I love what I am doing now.

 

[NervousNerd]

Hey guys/gals. Don't attack yet, I'm just a pre-med.

Basically I've gone my whole undergrad career gunning for MD. I'm in the application cycle right now, sitting on 5 interview invites already.

BUT

Today something blind sided me. I began to worry. Cold feet kicked in. I began to think of the work-life balance of physicians. I've heard horror stories but I never took them to heart. And now I guess because I'm surprisingly doing well in applying, this is all hitting me...

What do you guys think of the work life balance as students? What do you know or assume it will be like after? Is it realistic to be able to settle down and start a family after? Is free time or family/significant other time a thing of the past?

I'm even going as far to possibly apply to PA programs incase I withdraw my interviews.... I know you guys are going to call me crazy but hear me out. Work life balance is a huge thing for me. I've seen my father marry his job and it took everything from him. I want to be able to be the kind of person who comes home at night and can still live outside of my career. How do you guys deal with this as medicine has potentially terrible work life balance?

 

[DermViser]

Hey guys/gals. Don't attack yet, I'm just a pre-med.

Basically I've gone my whole undergrad career gunning for MD. I'm in the application cycle right now, sitting on 5 interview invites already.

BUT

Today something blind sided me. I began to worry. Cold feet kicked in. I began to think of the work-life balance of physicians. I've heard horror stories but I never took them to heart. And now I guess because I'm surprisingly doing well in applying, this is all hitting me...

What do you guys think of the work life balance as students? What do you know or assume it will be like after? Is it realistic to be able to settle down and start a family after? Is free time or family/significant other time a thing of the past?

I'm even going as far to possibly apply to PA programs incase I withdraw my interviews.... I know you guys are going to call me crazy but hear me out. Work life balance is a huge thing for me. I've seen my father marry his job and it took everything from him. I want to be able to be the kind of person who comes home at night and can still live outside of my career. How do you guys deal with this as medicine has potentially terrible work life balance?

Why would we attack you? You're asking a perfectly valid question. I think work-life balance is best in the first 2 years, iffy during MS-3 depending on rotation, and then pretty good in MS4 mainly bc you're interviewing and applying for residency. As far as work life balance, it depends what specialty you're eligible for and matching into.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Hey guys/gals. Don't attack yet, I'm just a pre-med.

Basically I've gone my whole undergrad career gunning for MD. I'm in the application cycle right now, sitting on 5 interview invites already.

BUT

The answers to a lot of these questions depend on you, and it's certainly better to be asking yourself now than later.

I'm going to echo Dermviser for the most part.

A lot of people have a relatively easy time in m1/2...as long as you're efficient and organized, you'll probably be one of them. You'll still be in class/studying a ton, but it's not the end of the world. If you enjoy biology as a general rule, you will probably also enjoy m1/2 (though there will be low points where you wish you had never seen a textbook).

M3 will suck, based on all accounts. However, even m3 will probably have some easier rotations. They aren't all surgery. M4 is a better balance, but mostly on the second half of the year.

Internship/residency vary hugely by specialty.

My personal advice: don't write off medicine because of the hard work upfront. It's certainly possible to "marry your profession" here, but many do not. Entire specialties have relatively low hours: anesthesiology, derm, opthalmology, psych, PM&R, radiology, Emergency (although calling it a "lifestyle" specialty is debatable), etc.

You aren't alone in feeling the way you do. Many of these specialties are competitive because they offer a good lifestyle. Medicine does not require you to marry your job.

Having said that, understand that many doctors feel it does: therefore, when you mention lifestyle, they'll treat you like you're "cheating" on medicine.

Good luck!

 

[kexy]

I didn't regret it until third year. What really sucks is that by the time you are in a position to feel regret, you have invested too much and are so close to finishing that it would be completely insane to quit.

 

[Kahreek]

4-7 years of crappy living conditions to be set up for the rest of your life.

what !? bro

 

[NervousNerd]

The answers to a lot of these questions depend on you, and it's certainly better to be asking yourself now than later.

I'm going to echo Dermviser for the most part.

A lot of people have a relatively easy time in m1/2...as long as you're efficient and organized, you'll probably be one of them. You'll still be in class/studying a ton, but it's not the end of the world. If you enjoy biology as a general rule, you will probably also enjoy m1/2 (though there will be low points where you wish you had never seen a textbook).

M3 will suck, based on all accounts. However, even m3 will probably have some easier rotations. They aren't all surgery. M4 is a better balance, but mostly on the second half of the year.

Internship/residency vary hugely by specialty.

My personal advice: don't write off medicine because of the hard work upfront. It's certainly possible to "marry your profession" here, but many do not. Entire specialties have relatively low hours: anesthesiology, derm, opthalmology, psych, PM&R, radiology, Emergency (although calling it a "lifestyle" specialty is debatable), etc.

You aren't alone in feeling the way you do. Many of these specialties are competitive because they offer a good lifestyle. Medicine does not require you to marry your job.

Having said that, understand that many doctors feel it does: therefore, when you mention lifestyle, they'll treat you like you're "cheating" on medicine.

Good luck!

Thank you for this! I am rethinking my entire decision and will most likely withdraw my interviews to pursue PA instead. I am just struggling personally with the balance of it all for medicine and where I could be happy practicing as a PA and still have a life outside of medicine

 

[DermViser]

I didn't regret it until third year. What really sucks is that by the time you are in a position to feel regret, you have invested too much and are so close to finishing that it would be completely insane to quit.

THIS. THIS. THIS. All the more reason to figure whether medicine fits you before going into it.

 

[NervousNerd]

THIS. THIS. THIS. All the more reason to figure whether medicine fits you before going into it.

Yes I have taken this to heart. I fear it the most. Half of me says change now and the other half is saying giving up 5 II is crazy

 

[alpinism]

The answers to a lot of these questions depend on you, and it's certainly better to be asking yourself now than later.

I'm going to echo Dermviser for the most part.

A lot of people have a relatively easy time in m1/2...as long as you're efficient and organized, you'll probably be one of them. You'll still be in class/studying a ton, but it's not the end of the world. If you enjoy biology as a general rule, you will probably also enjoy m1/2 (though there will be low points where you wish you had never seen a textbook).

M3 will suck, based on all accounts. However, even m3 will probably have some easier rotations. They aren't all surgery. M4 is a better balance, but mostly on the second half of the year.

Internship/residency vary hugely by specialty.

My personal advice: don't write off medicine because of the hard work upfront. It's certainly possible to "marry your profession" here, but many do not. Entire specialties have relatively low hours: anesthesiology, derm, opthalmology, psych, PM&R, radiology, Emergency (although calling it a "lifestyle" specialty is debatable), etc.

You aren't alone in feeling the way you do. Many of these specialties are competitive because they offer a good lifestyle. Medicine does not require you to marry your job.

Having said that, understand that many doctors feel it does: therefore, when you mention lifestyle, they'll treat you like you're "cheating" on medicine.

Good luck!

Exactly. Agree with all of this with a couple additions:

1. Step 1 prep will also suck unless you know you're going for primary care in a noncompetitive location. Even if you're efficient and begin studying early, there never is truly enough time to cover everything. Expect to have much less free time for family and friends at the end of M2.

2. Be aware that the "low hours" of some specialties is relative to the other more time consuming specialties. After going through med school and residency, even 60hrs per week seems light when you have most weekends off and minimal call responsibilities. But, overall most physicians work more than the average 40hrs per week office worker. That even includes ROAD specialties.

 

[DermViser]

Yes I have taken this to heart. I fear it the most. Half of me says change now and the other half is saying giving up 5 II is crazy

I don't know that 5 II stands for. I guess it depends what your doubts are.

 

[DermViser]

Exactly. Agree with all of this with a couple additions:

1. Step 1 prep will also suck unless you know you're going for primary care in a noncompetitive location. Even if you're efficient and begin studying early, there never is truly enough time to cover everything. Expect to have much less free time for family and friends at the end of M2.

2. Be aware that the "low hours" of some specialties is relative to the other more time consuming specialties. After going through med school and residency, even 60hrs per week seems light when you have most weekends off and minimal call responsibilities. But, overall most physicians work more than the average 40hrs per week office worker. That even includes ROAD specialties.

As a general rule, I would say for primary care (Gen IM, Gen Peds, and Family Med) you're better off doing NP or PA, with respect to time, money, amount of regulatory burden, amount of debt burden, MOC requirements, etc.

 

[NervousNerd]

As a general rule, I would say for primary care (Gen IM, Gen Peds, and Family Med) you're better off doing NP or PA, with respect to time, money, amount of regulatory burden, amount of debt burden, MOC requirements, etc.

Yes this would be the goal. Time to find out if I am even a competitive PA applicant...

 

[DermViser]

Yes this would be the goal. Time to find out if I am even a competitive PA applicant...

I'm referring to if your heart is set on primary care with no possibility of wanting to go for a specialty. That being said PAs go into specialty practice all the time, so even that isn't closed off.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I don't know that 5 II stands for. I guess it depends what your doubts are.

II = interview invite

 

[DermViser]

II = interview invite

How much debt would you be looking at?

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

How much debt would you be looking at?

Think you meant to quote NervousNerd. Or you wanted to remind me of my own crippling debt, in which case...touche.

 

[DermViser]

Think you meant to quote NervousNerd. Or you wanted to remind me of my own crippling debt, in which case...touche.

Yes I was replying to @NervousNerd. Didn't realize you were explaining his abbreviation. Definitely not the latter.

 

[NervousNerd]

How much debt would you be looking at?

My undergrad is paid for. And 3 of my 5 interview invites are at state schools so...debt under 150k.

 

[DermViser]

My undergrad is paid for. And 3 of my 5 interview invites are at state schools so...debt under 150k.

150 K total debt after med school isn't that bad. I guess it could be much worse. Even then if your sole and only goal is primary care, then I would be wary, mainly bc the practice model is changing where as the physician you will be more an administrator.

 

[NervousNerd]

150 K total debt after med school isn't that bad. I guess it could be much worse. Even then if your sole and only goal is primary care, then I would be wary, mainly bc the practice model is changing where as the physician you will be more an administrator.

I am mainly wary of my life during and after residency. I need to be able to have a family life and be there for my spouse/kids, something my father has failed to do. I'm risking this balance with MD as marrying the profession is common.

 

[DermViser]

I am mainly wary of my life during and after residency. I need to be able to have a family life and be there for my spouse/kids, something my father has failed to do. I'm risking this balance with MD as marrying the profession is common.

Well I would expect a good work/life balance in IM, FM, or Peds DURING residency, for sure, although this is rotation dependent. That being said it is for a set period of time.