Why are DO schools easier to get into ?

[Kuba]

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SAnd, by the way, do you ever read anything I post or are you just so damn angry that you just type the first thing that comes to your mind?

your right. but im not angry, lol. I always just write(or say) the first thing that comes to mind. Sure, it can get me in trouble, but thats just my style😎 .

 

[Jamers]

seriously guys? can we agree to disagree and stop yelling through a forum...

both of you are correct...the MCAT and your GPA are important for getting into medical school and both are important factors that most likely correlate with board scores. you are both good candidates in your own ways so be proud of what you have accomplished. there is no need to fight about things that you clearly worked hard to attain and you are not going to change them in the future. go out and have a drink or something...both of you seem to need it.

I offered him a hug, he refused 🙁 I even gave him a dollar to go see a movie 🙁
I feel used

 

[Jamers]

your right. but im not angry, lol. I always just write(or say) the first thing that comes to mind. Sure, it can get me in trouble, but thats just my style😎 .

Well I must admit, this was the first free weekend we have had and I mayyyyy, stress the may and make it a did, drink when I wrote the inital responses. This is most likely why I didn't check my 15% argument and why I used the word sweetheart far too often. That is why I was trying to cool everything down these past few posts haha. These kind of arguments always start up on SDN and they never go anywhere. Plus, I am the hired ballbuster, not the arguer.

 

[Kuba]

Well I must admit, this was the first free weekend we have had and I mayyyyy, stress the may and make it a did, drink when I wrote the inital responses. This is most likely why I didn't check my 15% argument and why I used the word sweetheart far too often. That is why I was trying to cool everything down these past few posts haha. These kind of arguments always start up on SDN and they never go anywhere. Plus, I am the hired ballbuster, not the arguer.

fair enough

 

[QofQuimica]

Maybe my inital post was not worded correctly, I didn't throw in anything about life experiences in there. I could easily understand someone who is in their 30's with a lower GPA but with enough experiences to even it all out. However, my comment was pointed towards people who just graduated. You can choose to take offense to it if you want and, if you do, I have a tissue right here. 😍

Hon, no tissues needed; I'm not offended all that easily. But I did want to point out that it's not very consistent to laud the holistic consideration of applicants, but then not even be willing to listen to anyone's story about why their GPA might be below a 3.0. 🙂

Personally, I think that both MCAT and GPA are not great predictors of success as a physician. What they are good predictors for though is whether an applicant will be able to make it through the medical school curriculum. Those are two different animals though. 😎

 

[RollWave11]

No offense, If you really learned the materiel well you would be able to acheive higher than a 22 without studying.

I'd have to agree here. I have a 3.0 undergrad GPA and got a 29 without studying the first time (I was a ******* then for not studying...😡 ). While my grades in a lot of sciences classes may indicate poor performance, I have to say that my MCAT (before and after kaplan prep) proved that I knew the material better than most.

Interpret that as you will, I dont mean to flame/slam anyone. Just throwing it into the fray.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Because they give the people that didnt give a **** about getting straight A's in undergrad because the experience was more important to them - the chance to do what it is they were made to do.

 

[Instatewaiter]

2) There is not enough of a valid correlation between true academic capability and a single test. Instead, they will be putting greater emphasis on GPA and the rest of the application. Osteopathic schools already do this and so I think that they are years ahead of the allopathic schools in terms of their way of thinking.

The difference in 'academic capability' between someone who gets a 1100 vs someone who gets a 1500 is definately there. Same thing with MCAT. You cannot say that a person who has a 22 is going to be able to absorb the info in medical school as well as a person who got a 35 will. Proof is already in the test. They couldnt do it the first time with premed classes. Perhaps there is little correlation between 33 and 34 but when the numbers are far apart you would be hard pressed to prove that there is a weak correlation.

Basically having r=.4 it is saying this. There is not a 1 to 1 correlation but when scores are far apart there is a distinct difference on performance on boards (which btw account for around 40% of how competitive you are for residency)

I don't really understand the logic behind putting such a heavy emphasis on a single test. There are some really great people with high GPAs and great ECs who will make excellent doctors someday that may never get a chance to attend medical school due to their performance on a single test.

The logic is that if you can't absorb the info and perform tests on the info you will probably have a very diffficult time on the boards. There are also people in medical school who could be decent doctors but will never get that oportunity because of their performance on a single test: step 1. There is a reason you have to jump through the hoop when you're a pre-med.

I think, in part, DO schools have lower requirements because some of the schools are newer and less established. Moreover, there are fewer DO schools and practicing physicians than allopathic.

In no way should DO applicants or students feel or be illustrated as "left-overs" from MD programs or less qualified students.

There are lots of other reasons including price, fewer opportunities after school, less pay, less prestige so DOs are going to get weaker applicants. If you had the option to go to school A and have more prestige, better opportunities with more pay and less debt than school B why the Fu(K would you choose school B?.

I call bull**** on the second part, at least on the east coast.

This is a great response! But just out of curiosity does anyone know on average how many MD seats and DO seats are available each year?

MD schools have about 16,000 seats but that will soon increase as they are trying to meet the demand of the baby-boomers.

Until I see some real hardcore proof, I will continue to believe that a four year performance in a hard major carries more weight than a performance on a single test.

In terms of admissions it does carry more weight. That is why you see kids getting in with lower MCAT and a high GPA but very few with high MCAT and low GPA.

No offense, If you really learned the materiel well you would be able to acheive higher than a 22 without studying.

Mean but true

Sure, you win the bigger penis competition... feel better? ... doesn't bug me, if it did, I wouldn't tell people about it. You can say anything you want .. it is... why I am... so damn angry ... can we move onto something else. How about some more MD vs DO arguments,

haha... i deleted some of his post to make a funny one. Jamers has a small penis.

 

[Taus]

instate: opinions are opinions and thats fine.....but in no way, shape or form do we make less money for doing the same job....

 

[Kuba]

instate: opinions are opinions and thats fine.....but in no way, shape or form do we make less money for doing the same job....

I think Instate meant better specialties that make mroe money. But even that is a dubious statement.

 

[Dr JPH]

He's living in Virginia...cut the guy some slack. I would be upset with my life too. 😉

 

[Jamers]

The difference in 'academic capability' between someone who gets a 1100 vs someone who gets a 1500 is definately there. Same thing with MCAT. You cannot say that a person who has a 22 is going to be able to absorb the info in medical school as well as a person who got a 35 will. Proof is already in the test. They couldnt do it the first time with premed classes. Perhaps there is little correlation between 33 and 34 but when the numbers are far apart you would be hard pressed to prove that there is a weak correlation.

Basically having r=.4 it is saying this. There is not a 1 to 1 correlation but when scores are far apart there is a distinct difference on performance on boards (which btw account for around 40% of how competitive you are for residency)




The logic is that if you can't absorb the info and perform tests on the info you will probably have a very diffficult time on the boards. There are also people in medical school who could be decent doctors but will never get that oportunity because of their performance on a single test: step 1. There is a reason you have to jump through the hoop when you're a pre-med.




There are lots of other reasons including price, fewer opportunities after school, less pay, less prestige so DOs are going to get weaker applicants. If you had the option to go to school A and have more prestige, better opportunities with more pay and less debt than school B why the Fu(K would you choose school B?.

I call bull**** on the second part, at least on the east coast.




MD schools have about 16,000 seats but that will soon increase as they are trying to meet the demand of the baby-boomers.




In terms of admissions it does carry more weight. That is why you see kids getting in with lower MCAT and a high GPA but very few with high MCAT and low GPA.





Mean but true



haha... i deleted some of his post to make a funny one. Jamers has a small penis.

Hung like an earlobe baby

 

[Instatewaiter]

instate: opinions are opinions and thats fine.....but in no way, shape or form do we make less money for doing the same job....

True, but looking at the whole, MDs on average make more money just because they are more likely to specialize while a larger proportion of DOs will go to primary care. For the same job they will make about the same.

Oh and for the record Virginia is pretty sweet, not gonna lie. What's not to love about beautiful scenery, excellent state schools and a high standard of living for little money.

 

[MaximusD]

Look:

This much I will say: The difficulty of any given course... of any given courseload...and of any professor's testing style is HIGHLY variable. Not just a little... there is no quality control taht assures that each professor from university to university even closely teaches the same subject matter nor does it control the difficulty at which each professor chooses to test. Even within universities, as is borne out on ratemyprof.com, there is a high amount of variability in test difficulty and teacher efficacy. To say that GPA is a more fair and equalized manner of evaluating a student is ludicrous.

The MCAT, however, is uniform with a small margin of CALCULATED error betwen test forms and exams, etc. These tests are constantly monitored to assure fairness and impartiality by the AAMC.

Can you HONESTLY say the same about your undergraduate courses?

I mean, with a straight face anyway...

I AM NOT arguing that with my 3.25, I am as qualified as an applicant with a 3.9. Rather, I am arguing that there is a much larger margin of error and much less precision with regard to GPA as a measurement. Thus, if two students are being compared from different universities... one has a 3.4 the other has a 3.6... is this really a SIGNIFICANT difference?

If a student gets a 28 and the other student gets a 31, I assure you, there is a large statistical difference on the magnitude of ~10 percentile nationally (pulled out of my ass, but you can check your AAMC MCAT scores). You won't find this consistency or reliability in GPAs from school to school.

End of story.

 

[UIC Killa]

why does everyone argue about this DO and MD thing...if you all just sit back and look at the bigger picture you are all physicians!!!...some 98% (Just a guess so dont jump on me) of the population are not going to be doing what you are doing....yeah...higher proportions of DO's goes into primary care...yeah we make the same money...blah blah...we are going to be doctors...be happy!!!🙂 ...be proud of what you all have accomplished...

 

[smohamma]

Wow, I was just reading everyones post -

DO schools are more forgiving if your lacking something - such as your mcat/ or your GPA- I think they realize not everyone who will make amazing physicians will have the most amazing gpa and mcat.. and allopathic schools demand excellence in both.. not that there is anything wrong with that.

MD schools can do that - well because they have greater name recognization and more people are likely to attend their schools, so they have more reasons to discriminate between a 34 MCAT and a 35 MCAT score.. or 3.99 and a 3.89 GPA. Greater applicant pool... means harder to get in... means more competition..... = why MD schools GPA/MCAT score tend to be much more higher.

Does it mean its easier to get into a DO program? No. In the end when you apply to any school - there are 2000 more people applying .. and chances are of that application pool there are going to be a lot of people with better scores than you, so in the end... you may have a better chance of getting into a DO program vs. MD program, but that does not mean you will get in. At the end of the day ... you are still competing for 150 seats ...against 2000 + more people.


So getting into any MED school (MD or DO) is an accomplishment on its own.. I mean they did reject someone...who would have loved to sitting where you are!

 

[lysosome]

since we're on the topic. i just opened up my acceptance letter from KCUMB and my aunt was over at my house.

My moment was ruined when she said that they only accepted me because no one wants to go there. I don't even know how to take that.

This mentality people have about DO schools is already starting to bug me and I barely got accepted.

 

[tncekm]

since we're on the topic. i just opened up my acceptance letter from KCUMB and my aunt was over at my house.

My moment was ruined when she said that they only accepted me because no one wants to go there. I don't even know how to take that.

This mentality people have about DO schools is already starting to bug me and I barely got accepted.

Did you smack her in the face with a pan fresh out of the autoclave? What a b1tch.

DO = Medical Doctor of Osteopathy & MD = Medical Doctor of Allopathy...note they're both medical doctors. I don't understand what peoples problem is.

 

[jkhamlin]

since we're on the topic. i just opened up my acceptance letter from KCUMB and my aunt was over at my house.

My moment was ruined when she said that they only accepted me because no one wants to go there. I don't even know how to take that.

This mentality people have about DO schools is already starting to bug me and I barely got accepted.

You'll still be a doctor. She'll remember that when asking you for free medical advice. 😉

 

[Kuba]

good post, smohamma👍

 

[Doc2007]

since we're on the topic. i just opened up my acceptance letter from KCUMB and my aunt was over at my house.

My moment was ruined when she said that they only accepted me because no one wants to go there. I don't even know how to take that.

This mentality people have about DO schools is already starting to bug me and I barely got accepted.

Your aunt is bitter because her son/daughter did not get into any medical schools.

 

[Kuba]

Your aunt is bitter because her son/daughter did not get into any medical schools.

haha, its probably true! shes so jealous

 

[scpod]

Oh and for the record Virginia is pretty sweet, not gonna lie. What's not to love about beautiful scenery, excellent state schools and a high standard of living for little money.

Except for Richmond where they don't know the war is over yet. There's actually a restaurant there that plays "Dixie" at the top of every hour and all the patrons stand and salute the rebel flag. There's some other classy businesses too. Take a look on your way to the VA hospital. There's a strip club that has breakfast specials posted outside and strip-karyoke on Wednesday nights. Henrico County's not too bad, though.

 

[MJB]

since we're on the topic. i just opened up my acceptance letter from KCUMB and my aunt was over at my house.

My moment was ruined when she said that they only accepted me because no one wants to go there. I don't even know how to take that.

This mentality people have about DO schools is already starting to bug me and I barely got accepted.

I just have to laugh at your aunt...sorry..

🙂

 

[pguin]

since we're on the topic. i just opened up my acceptance letter from KCUMB and my aunt was over at my house.

My moment was ruined when she said that they only accepted me because no one wants to go there. I don't even know how to take that.

This mentality people have about DO schools is already starting to bug me and I barely got accepted.

hahaha...i just laughed for the past 5 minutes after hearing that. Make sure shes around when they send you the letter wanting a credit check (and they do) ...im sure she'll have a hilarious comment about that too.

if i were you id be hoping i was around her in 8 years when she has a heart attack and is looking for u to help her. Then you can just tell her that you dont know how cause you're just a lowly DO and you're not even sure how to dial 911. Then you can just sit back and laugh like a hyena (if you could bring yourself to laugh while your aunt is having a heart attack...i could)!!

for the record, I really liked KCUMB...beautiful facilities...friendly students...and an awesome 7-11 across the street!! 😀

 

[premed2007]

Did you smack her in the face with a pan fresh out of the autoclave? What a b1tch.

DO = Medical Doctor of Osteopathy & MD = Medical Doctor of Allopathy...note they're both medical doctors. I don't understand what peoples problem is.

I agree 100%. It is nothing more than snobbery. Osteopathic physicians are just as qualified sometimes even more than allopathic. allopathic has all the reputation, big name schools etc. etc. but BOTH are still medical doctors and no one should be ashamed of being accepted to or attending a D.O. school. Whether you are D.O. or M.D. you can be more than qualified in your field.

 

[tncekm]

I agree 100%. It is nothing more than snobbery. Osteopathic physicians are just as qualified sometimes even more than allopathic. allopathic has all the reputation, big name schools etc. etc. but BOTH are still medical doctors and no one should be ashamed of being accepted to or attending a D.O. school. Whether you are D.O. or M.D. you can be more than qualified in your field.

Yep...the only thing that's stupid about osteo school is that damn COMLEX. They dont' prep you for the USMLE and most residencies wanna see USMLE scores, not COMLEX.

 

[Bluemirage]

since we're on the topic. i just opened up my acceptance letter from KCUMB and my aunt was over at my house.

My moment was ruined when she said that they only accepted me because no one wants to go there. I don't even know how to take that.

This mentality people have about DO schools is already starting to bug me and I barely got accepted.

Don't worry about what your aunt said. If she says something like that again you need to defend yourself and give her the facts. This is a typical comment from someone who does not know what they are talking about! DO school admissions are no longer what they used to be 20 years ago. The admissions standards of the top DO schools now surpass quite alot of MD schools. This year is a rough year for medical school applicants, both MD and DO. It would not surprise me if the average MCAT scores of matriculants increase by a point across the board in all DO schools this year. It is quite frightening to see the number of MCAT 29+ scores at some schools. KCUMB is an excellent school that produces alot of great docs....they matched a whole bunch of ppl in very competitive specialties last year. One person matched into radiation oncology at Fox Chase Cancer Center....this is extremely difficult even for an MD student at IVY League schools. This is a testament to the quality of education you will receive if you attend. Now go celebrate!

 

[lysosome]

for all the support from SDN users. It's great to have a bunch of people/strangers/colleagues who I can relate and vent to.

this explains why i'm obsessively checking the updates on this forum.

 

[MJB]

After reading through all of this thread, I have to wonder if med schools should require maturity tests in addition to the MCAT. 🙂

 

[Taus]

After reading through all of this thread, I have to wonder if med schools should require maturity tests in addition to the MCAT. 🙂

if that was possible I don't think you would find anyone to oppose it.....though thats what the interview should sorta be for already...

 

[jkhamlin]

After reading through all of this thread, I have to wonder if med schools should require maturity tests in addition to the MCAT. 🙂

OMG, I would fail.

 

[MJB]

if that was possible I don't think you would find anyone to oppose it.....though thats what the interview should sorta be for already...

Pretty much. 🙂

I would give an opinion on the MCAT/GPA thing, but I don't think I wanna get into the fray.

 

[Fermata]

Oh and for the record Virginia is pretty sweet, not gonna lie. What's not to love about beautiful scenery, excellent state schools and a high standard of living for little money.

It's no North Carolina, but hey. 😀

 

[tigre21]

for all the support from SDN users. It's great to have a bunch of people/strangers/colleagues who I can relate and vent to.

this explains why i'm obsessively checking the updates on this forum.

I was thinking the same thing as I was reading through the posts. 👍

 

[smohamma]

lysosome... (cool name) .. I totally get your feeling, everytime I tell my friends or whatever that I am applying to DO schools .. and actually now going to be going to LECOM/Bradenton.. they go why??? ..Or make it seem like I got in .. becuz anyone can get into those school.. tho .. obviously they had no idea how much i was stressing about every school i applied to.
People who usually mock DO's or whatever are two kinds of people : completely ignorant of the amount time/committment/devotion we pre-meds have put in over the years to get to this point or too Arrogant to see past two letters.

Again, the way I see it .. why do you want to be a doctor? Becuz of the two letters after your name..or becuz this is the field you find fulfilling... (hope the latter is true for all of us, MD's and DO's)

 

[NonTradMed]

DOs still experience stigma, especially at the premed level, hence there are fewer people applying to DOs than MDs (proportionally), and so the top students tend to apply to MD schools rather than DO schools. There's also some ignorance regarding MD vs DO. I attend an MD school and a couple of my fellow students were talking about it.

One said the only reason people apply to DO schools is because they can't get into DO schools but that he didn't do it when he got rejected the first time because 'DOs can only do primary care'. The other guy swore that DOs were not 'real doctors' and could only do 'some type of holistic medicine....acupuncture....?'. And at my undergrad, which had a 'prestigeous' MD school attached to it, our premed advisor put DO schools as 'alternatives to medical school' on their webpage.

So the anti-DO attitude is pretty pervasive in some areas. As a result, many students (including myself) were discouraged from doing DO, or even considering it. At my school, I knew of no one who would admit to doing DO. It was MD, even out of the country. As a result, a lot of students who may otherwise have considered DO did not even know it was a viable alternative to the MD degree. And this also meant that students who had the creds to go MD did not even think about doing DO even if they may have liked the DO school's location/philosophy/etc.

 

[DragonWell]

Except for Richmond where they don't know the war is over yet. There's actually a restaurant there that plays "Dixie" at the top of every hour and all the patrons stand and salute the rebel flag. There's some other classy businesses too. Take a look on your way to the VA hospital. There's a strip club that has breakfast specials posted outside and strip-karyoke on Wednesday nights. Henrico County's not too bad, though.

This reminds me of a store I know in TN where you can buy a KKK uniform off a clothes hanger. Or the first time I went to a "historical" reenactment of a civil war battle...and realized that around here the South always wins! Gotta love Cocke county moonshine, though!

 

[Orthodoc40]

since we're on the topic. i just opened up my acceptance letter from KCUMB and my aunt was over at my house.

My moment was ruined when she said that they only accepted me because no one wants to go there. I don't even know how to take that.

This mentality people have about DO schools is already starting to bug me and I barely got accepted.

I'm with ya there!! Anyway, you can tell her some things like:

More than 7,000 physicians have graduated from KCUMB-COM since its founding. - So people clearly want to go there, at least 7,000 so far..

More than 95 percent of KCUMB graduates commonly match to their first choices in postdoctoral programs across the country. (MAN AM I JEALOUS!! DMU claims only 88% matched into 1st or 2nd choice!!)

The KCUMB pass rate on national board examinations is significantly above the national mean — 98 percent in 2004. -

You tell her: So what about not wanting to go there, Auntie?? How ya like me now?? Huh?!!

 

[babycapybara]

so, if an MD and a DO are about the same, why do they have different titles? they should both be MDs. from what i've read osteopaths are supposed to manipulate the body manually...i guess something like a chiropractor. anyhow, if they do a full medical degree along with this extra manual therapy, shouldn't osteopathy be considered a specialty?
what's the history behind the separation of the fields..it seems a little weird.

 

[tranzformer]

DOs still experience stigma, especially at the premed level, hence there are fewer people applying to DOs than MDs (proportionally), and so the top students tend to apply to MD schools rather than DO schools. There's also some ignorance regarding MD vs DO. I attend an MD school and a couple of my fellow students were talking about it.

One said the only reason people apply to DO schools is because they can't get into DO schools but that he didn't do it when he got rejected the first time because 'DOs can only do primary care'. The other guy swore that DOs were not 'real doctors' and could only do 'some type of holistic medicine....acupuncture....?'. And at my undergrad, which had a 'prestigeous' MD school attached to it, our premed advisor put DO schools as 'alternatives to medical school' on their webpage.

So the anti-DO attitude is pretty pervasive in some areas. As a result, many students (including myself) were discouraged from doing DO, or even considering it. At my school, I knew of no one who would admit to doing DO. It was MD, even out of the country. As a result, a lot of students who may otherwise have considered DO did not even know it was a viable alternative to the MD degree. And this also meant that students who had the creds to go MD did not even think about doing DO even if they may have liked the DO school's location/philosophy/etc.

I can resound with this post 100%. This is exactly how it was for me in undergrad. I really didn't know/learn about osteopathy until I was out of college and in the real world. Sure happy I had the opportunity to learn more about it.

 

[MJB]

so, if an MD and a DO are about the same, why do they have different titles? they should both be MDs. from what i've read osteopaths are supposed to manipulate the body manually...i guess something like a chiropractor. anyhow, if they do a full medical degree along with this extra manual therapy, shouldn't osteopathy be considered a specialty?
what's the history behind the separation of the fields..it seems a little weird.

If you truly want to know the answer, I'd start here...

 

[mitawa]

Back in the 1800's a doctor (MD) by the name of AT Still was a little dismayed at the state of medical care offered by medical doctors. There were many schools of thought back then on how medicine should be approached, but no uniform body until the founding of the AMA in 1841. Most schools of medicine joined and conformed to the AMA. Still himself was an allopathic physician, but with a different vision.

Still believed that often the were over medicating and treating symptoms while not the actual disease. (He had this whole preventative medicine philosophy) Around 1874, He began to formulate several principles that included the importance treating the musculoskeletal system to restore function and aid in maintaining health. At the time there were still other schools of thought out there pertaining to medicine, including the Homeopathy (one of their main schools Drexel Medical School which eventually became allopathic).

The first school of Osteopathy opened in 1892 in Kirksville, Mo. For those who like to compare osteopathy to chiropractic medicine--> the first school of chiropractice medicine was founded in 1898 by a former patient of Still's who was not a doctor (as far as I know) but liked some of his teachings. The schools of osteopathy were not founded in the larger cities and most other medical schools that had been founded upon homeopathy or other belief had become allopathic by the turn of the century. This meant that osteopathy was not a well-known and was definitely a minority in terms of the numbers of doctors that had graduated from its schools and practiced its thoughts.

The 1900's brought about alot of changes for DOs: treating pts during the influenza epidemic, surviving the Flexner(1910), being recognized by the military, etc. During WWII osteopaths took over a large amount of primary medical care on the homefront during a shortage of doctors. This put the spotlight on the osteopathic philosophy.

I could go on but I think I am long winded already. Suffice it to say that broad misconceptions still persist about the schools, their philosophy, and education. However the fact that there is discussion helps to dispel some of the myths, falsehoods, and brings enlightenment!😀

 

[brookliner7]

If you truly want to know the answer, I'd start here...

x's 2 on this one.

 

[Dr.HessD.O.]

For the posts about MCAT or GPA.
The big thing for me about the MCAT was that every single test I took was slightly different in what they focused on. This should not matter however different colleges focus on different subjects. I would score five to 6 points different depending on which test I took and which areas I knew well. On my test I did not do badly on sciences I did terrible on verbal. Why I have no freaking clue. Does that mean the test I did extremely well on reflects what I studied at my university. I would most likely have to agree.
I have a 4.0 and have 15 credit hours left of my undergraduate career. I have more A+'s than A's.
So why in the hell did I get a 27? I am not sure; however, I know that there are certain tests that do a lot for certain people. I am at a loss of what is a better predictor of performance in medical school. I studied far less than what I should have because my practice MCAT's were well above the 30 range.
The test I took in April was not the one I was going to do well on. Does this mean I should think that I will perform poorly in medical school or even on the boards? I highly doubt it.
The point of my post is just to say it's a freaking crapshoot like getting into medical school. There are so many different factors other than one test or a bazillion of classes. You are ultimately in charge of how you will perform in med school and on the boards. Most likely your board and class scores will depend on the particular version you get and what your school has focused on during your training. That being said, I still think a four year at a 4.0 is a better indicator, but then again, there is always that guy in the back of the class who doesn't study and gets an A-. He is just as smart as me if not smarter.
After my sentence I really have no idea which side I am on....., but the point is no one knows which a better indicator is.
Lastly, a correlation of 0.4 is not a great indicator of future performance in medical school. Are you kidding me....? Most scientific studies do not tout a 0.4 correlation.
That being said we are all amazing for most of us we have been accepted and are approaching our dream of becoming the greatest physicians of our time.
Now it's time for a Coor's Light and some Colts Football

 

[Kuba]

For the posts about MCAT or GPA.
The big thing for me about the MCAT was that every single test I took was slightly different in what they focused on. This should not matter however different colleges focus on different subjects. I would score five to 6 points different depending on which test I took and which areas I knew well. On my test I did not do badly on sciences I did terrible on verbal. Why I have no freaking clue. Does that mean the test I did extremely well on reflects what I studied at my university. I would most likely have to agree.
I have a 4.0 and have 15 credit hours left of my undergraduate career. I have more A+'s than A's.
So why in the hell did I get a 27? I am not sure; however, I know that there are certain tests that do a lot for certain people. I am at a loss of what is a better predictor of performance in medical school. I studied far less than what I should have because my practice MCAT's were well above the 30 range.
The test I took in April was not the one I was going to do well on. Does this mean I should think that I will perform poorly in medical school or even on the boards? I highly doubt it.
The point of my post is just to say it's a freaking crapshoot like getting into medical school. There are so many different factors other than one test or a bazillion of classes. You are ultimately in charge of how you will perform in med school and on the boards. Most likely your board and class scores will depend on the particular version you get and what your school has focused on during your training. That being said, I still think a four year at a 4.0 is a better indicator, but then again, there is always that guy in the back of the class who doesn't study and gets an A-. He is just as smart as me if not smarter.
After my sentence I really have no idea which side I am on....., but the point is no one knows which a better indicator is.
Lastly, a correlation of 0.4 is not a great indicator of future performance in medical school. Are you kidding me....? Most scientific studies do not tout a 0.4 correlation.
That being said we are all amazing for most of us we have been accepted and are approaching our dream of becoming the greatest physicians of our time.
Now it's time for a Coor's Light and some Colts Football

I realy like your posts, but I just wanted to point out that you have the statistics a little mixed up. .4 in this particular case is not that low. There are a lot of factors is medical school success, and the fact that ONE of them has a .4 correlation is pretty big. If it were in the .7-1.0 range then it would be the ONLY factor. A study would throw out a .4 correlation because they only focus on ONE variable to see how something works. This does not apply here. If you dont believe me, believe the editors of the journal that published that study. They would not have if it were not significant.

Note: by success I mean board score, which I dont necessarily agree with as an indicator of success, but it is the simplest measure.

 

[MaximusD]

Still believed that often the were over medicating and treating symptoms while not the actual disease. (He had this whole preventative medicine philosophy) Around 1874, He began to formulate several principles that included the importance treating the musculoskeletal system to restore function and aid in maintaining health. At the time there were still other schools of thought out there pertaining to medicine, including the Homeopathy (one of their main schools Drexel Medical School which eventually became allopathic).

Drexel wasn't a medical school previously (at least as it stands today). It has been a combination of many medical schools of the past... Here is Wikipedia's account of Drexel's history:

History

Medical College of Pennsylvania (MCP)
1850 - 1867: Female Medical College of Pennsylvania
1867 - 1970: Woman's Medical College of Pennsylvania
1970 - 1993: Medical College of Pennsylvania

Hahnemann University (HU)
1848 - 1869: Homeopathic College of Pennsylvania
1869 - 1982: Hahnemann Medical College
1982 - 1993: Hahnemann University

Drexel University College of Medicine
1993 - 1998: MCP Hahnemann School of Medicine (merger of MCP and HU)
1998 - 2002: MCP Hahnemann University
2002 - present: Drexel University College of Medicine

It's complicated, but sufficive to say Drexel's precursor, Homeopathic College of Pennsylvania, was only a Homeopathic institution for 21 years out of its 150+ year existence. (source: wikipedia)

or for Drexel's historical account go here: http://www.drexelmed.edu/About/History/tabid/639/Default.aspx

 

[czanetti]

I agree and disagree with the above MCAT posts. I think that although it is not a perfect measure of one's ability every school is different and there needs to be a standardized tests. I had a 4.0 for a year then I picked up some more difficult classes and it went down. Its not easy to maintain a 4.0 or get one but it is a little easier when you consider the classes that you are taking and your time commitments. The MCAT tests you on material that you need to know for medical school and its standardized so you don't get hints on what might be on the exam, or what to concentrate on, its an all or nothing crapshoot for everyone. You either know it or you don't if you are lucky you might do really well. This test doesn't determine weather or not you will be a good doctor, but in competitive enviroment it might determine if you get into a competitive school. How much better are competitive schools than not so competitive schools, I don't know.

 

[Dr.HessD.O.]

I realy like your posts, but I just wanted to point out that you have the statistics a little mixed up. .4 in this particular case is not that low. There are a lot of factors is medical school success, and the fact that ONE of them has a .4 correlation is pretty big. If it were in the .7-1.0 range then it would be the ONLY factor. A study would throw out a .4 correlation because they only focus on ONE variable to see how something works. This does not apply here. If you dont believe me, believe the editors of the journal that published that study. They would not have if it were not significant.

Note: by success I mean board score, which I dont necessarily agree with as an indicator of success, but it is the simplest measure.

Agreed, which Journal so I can check your sources? lol

 

[Orthodoc40]

I realy like your posts, but I just wanted to point out that you have the statistics a little mixed up. .4 in this particular case is not that low. There are a lot of factors is medical school success, and the fact that ONE of them has a .4 correlation is pretty big. If it were in the .7-1.0 range then it would be the ONLY factor. A study would throw out a .4 correlation because they only focus on ONE variable to see how something works. This does not apply here. If you dont believe me, believe the editors of the journal that published that study. They would not have if it were not significant.

Note: by success I mean board score, which I dont necessarily agree with as an indicator of success, but it is the simplest measure.

Wasn't this thing paid for BY the freakin' company that puts out the MCAT? Of course they will make sure there is a correlation. C'mon.
It's just as bad as drug companies paying for "studies" to show there's no correlation between their drug and heart disease, or there IS correlation with lowering cholesterol and their drug. You'll find another 4 studies done by someone else proving there is NO correlation at all. 🙄 Gimme a break. This is hardly conclusive proof.