Why do so many fail out of Caribbean schools?

[ayothen]

Just wondering!! Is it more rigorous at first or is it because the students aren't prepared for med school in the first place?

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[jtd2081]

I mean anything is possible. Statistically improbable, but possible. Do what you want. Just cause your doc tells you to do something doesn't mean you always have to do it. If you don't mind me asking what is your GPA?

 

[jtd2081]

Did you change this post? My original post was for someone asking why their doctor told them to apply caribbean

 

[ayothen]

Did you change this post? My original post was for someone asking why their doctor told them to apply caribbean

haha yes! I felt like my question on that post boiled down to this question. My doctor does want me to go Carib before applying to DO/SMP which I thought was weird because of the drop out rate there as well as the matches for residency, BUT he said "if you work hard and do well then you'll be fine" so in the end I'm wondering what makes people fail out of these schools? And, I guess, if I should do an SMP before Carib. I feel so old (24 in 3.5 weeks) but I feel like going SMP before Carib still.

 

[ayothen]

I mean anything is possible. Statistically improbable, but possible. Do what you want. Just cause your doc tells you to do something doesn't mean you always have to do it. If you don't mind me asking what is your GPA?

3.02 and MCAT score just came back as 500. I might apply to 7 DO and 3 MD programs just because I have a little faith. My letters are great and my EC's are unique so I'm hoping to slip in somewhere.

 

[cherubb3]

Your doctor is probably recommending that because Caribbean USED to be a (more) valid option for those who can't get into USMD.

 

[Goro]

This, and the business model of ruthlessly culling the herd. A course failure that would mean remediation and/or repeating a year at a US school is a dismissal at a Carib diploma mill.

because the students aren't prepared for med school in the first place.

 

[Lawpy]

Just wondering!! Is it more rigorous at first or is it because the students aren't prepared for med school in the first place?

It's both. Caribbean schools profit from misinformed, hasty, careless and unqualified applicants and mercilessly exploit them in the first two years. The Caribbean schools profit heavily from the student debt and skewer the students with random exams that have to be passed successfully in order to take the Steps and do rotations in US. Because sending students to clinical sites is expensive, Caribbean schools heavily filter out the students to reduce the costs.

 

[attitudeofgratitude]

please please please do not go Carib if you have any shot at an American school (including DO!) even if it takes an extra 2 years to get there! there are numerous threads on why

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/why-do-the-caribbean-schools-get-so-much-hate.1162057/ here is one that popped up under similar threads.

 

[darkjedi]

Maybe 20 years ago it was fine to do Caribbean, but a lot of new US med schools/slots have opened up while residency slots have more or less stayed the same. The number of IMGs taking up slots is getting much smaller.

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

A lot of Caribbean students are either impatient people who don't take a gap year or two to get into a US Med school or students who aren't accesemically strong enough to make it in med school.

The Carib schools are for profit so what they care most about is getting your money. They are aware a large percentage of their students will fail out, fail step, or fail to match. I wouldn't be surprised if they were aware during admissions which students were likely not to make it.

 

[osckey]

It is largely attributed to the low entrance standards these schools have. Therefore, many students in the Caribbean are not prepared for the rigor of medical school and fail out.

 

[ayothen]

please please please do not go Carib if you have any shot at an American school (including DO!) even if it takes an extra 2 years to get there! there are numerous threads on why

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/why-do-the-caribbean-schools-get-so-much-hate.1162057/ here is one that popped up under similar threads.

Oh thank you! I was looking for similar threads and must have not even seen this. Sorry for re asking a question that's already been answered!

 

[heybubbaa]

3.02 and MCAT score just came back as 500. I might apply to 7 DO and 3 MD programs just because I have a little faith. My letters are great and my EC's are unique so I'm hoping to slip in somewhere.

You will need to boost your stats if you want to go the SMP>MD route. DO seems feasible if your ECs can make up for your GPA/MCAT.

 

[Sardinia]

@ayothen Jimmy's an addict who just coasted by in school, got ok grades without really caring about his studies. One day Jimmy wants to get his life together. Goes cold turkey on the drugs, starts hitting the books, and turns around his life because of a strong dream to become an astrophysicist. Jimmy's probation officer tells Jimmy that he's proud of him but he may be biting off too much too soon. But after reconnecting with his mom and dad, they encourage Jimmy to take the first opportunity he is given because Jimmy is now responsible and has been straight for the past six months. Jimmy's a good kid, no doubt. He's passionate and focused. However would Jimmy be ready to jump straight into a PhD program where he would have to dedicate a 9-5 in and out (every second of every minute of every hour for eight of those hours at least) to forcing himself to learn and apply mathematical/physics concepts with little room for slacking off or accounting for errors of judgment when he has had issues with impulsiveness?

Why is there a tendency to give more academic credence to a field like astrophysics or a subject like abstract algebra? How accessible are astrophysicists or how many students have taken an abstract algebra course? How many people have a primary care physician who they can drop in and see if they suspect they have a garden variety of the common cold? People don't respect the intensity of a medical curriculum. The volume of material demands being digested by someone who has a familiarity with learning and/or medical paradigms. If not, then someone who is mature enough to make immediate changes to their lifestyle in order to develop the paradigms needed for them to succeed. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone can adapt or be that flexible. Not everyone has the appropriate paradigm for college and a much smaller proportion of people are ready for a fast-paced graduate education. Not everyone can become a doctor and this becomes more reflective the broader the spectrum of applicants you accept.

A lot of people refuse to acknowledge exceptionalism because of a lack of perception, objectivity, or perhaps an unhealthy amount of self-indulgence. The fire hose analogy is a good analogy. But similarly, a bad analogy because no one has been forced to drink water through a fire hose. When you only describe an experience as a euphemism the brain naturally discredits the analogy as being an exaggeration because it does not bear any semblance to common symptoms that are likely experienced by individuals: depression, fever-like symptoms, intermittent sleep deprivation/paranoia, or GERD like symptoms due to stress. It's hard to draw an analogy because nothing is analogous to the academic rigor of a medical program. A lot of people dedicate their heart and soul to it because it's a privilege to be accepted. There are very few things in life that are comparative to it making it a substantial lifetime dedication.

 

[Med Ed]

3.02 and MCAT score just came back as 500. I might apply to 7 DO and 3 MD programs just because I have a little faith. My letters are great and my EC's are unique so I'm hoping to slip in somewhere.

Based on old MCAT percentiles you essentially have a 3.02/25. Unless there are some serious mitigating factors I would strongly suggest taking a couple of years to mature and improve your application before applying. Right now your risk profile is pretty terrible, and if you stumble during medical school it could mean permanent career damage.

Not accounting for race/ethnicity, you have about a mere 15.4% chance of getting accepted to an MD program. That's not good.

Also look at the charts toward the end of the Using MCAT Data publication. Someone with your numbers has:

• An 18% chance of failing Step 1 on the first attempt (not good)
• A 29% chance of not graduating in four years (not good)
• A 14% chance of not graduating in five years (not good)
• A 5.6% chance of getting dismissed for academic reasons (not good)

Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should do a thing.

 

[FCMike11]

haha yes! I felt like my question on that post boiled down to this question. My doctor does want me to go Carib before applying to DO/SMP which I thought was weird because of the drop out rate there as well as the matches for residency, BUT he said "if you work hard and do well then you'll be fine" so in the end I'm wondering what makes people fail out of these schools? And, I guess, if I should do an SMP before Carib. I feel so old (24 in 3.5 weeks) but I feel like going SMP before Carib still.

You aren't old (if things go well I will start med school at 27- and I have seen many older than me here and met many at the hospital).

There isn't a proper short path to getting into medical school. With the new DO schools opening, if you dedicate a year even with class retakes and possibly a MCAT retake, you could stay in the US.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using SDN mobile

 

[piii]

3.02 and MCAT score just came back as 500. I might apply to 7 DO and 3 MD programs just because I have a little faith. My letters are great and my EC's are unique so I'm hoping to slip in somewhere.

I wouldn't apply MD. I honestly doubt you'd be able to get into a decent SMP with those stats. Would need a higher MCAT.

 

[ayothen]

retakes with grade replacement and a new MCAT would be less expensive than SMP and more likely to be effective to DO

Thank you so much for all the info! I really appreciate it. I was feeling pretty down and lost after my friends were telling me I'd be too old, and trying to research what I should do.

So now I'm just wondering if you advise I not send in my app and just work on my gpa and mcat? People are telling me it's worth a try to apply at some historically black colleges but I don't want to waste money if I have no chance. I did research on here about SMPs and it seemed like I could get accepted to two in CA, but that MD programs like SMPs too, so I was just going that route because it covers both DO and MD. Is this a bad idea/ do you advise I just do a post bacc?


[Edit] rephrased my question!

 

[ayothen]

Alright I'm leaning towards postbacc. Seems less risky and cheaper! I live in California so hopefully I'll get into one here and if not, I'll just try and do a DIY. Thanks everyone!

 

[Goro]

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. I graduated one last year at 50.

If you're not AA, then don't waste time and money on the HBCs. If you are, I don't recommend it. As the wise Med Ed has pointed out, no med school in the world is doing you any favors by admitting you if you can't hack the curriculum.

MD programs like SMPs, yes, but you have to ace them, (like GPA 3.7+ AND you need to ace the MCAT as well).

Your fastest path to being a doctor is by retaking all F/D/C science coursework and going DO.

Thank you so much for all the info! I really appreciate it. I was feeling pretty down and lost after my friends were telling me I'd be too old, and trying to research what I should do.

So now I'm just wondering if you advise I not send in my app and just work on my gpa and mcat? People are telling me it's worth a try to apply at some historically black colleges but I don't want to waste money if I have no chance. I did research on here about SMPs and it seemed like I could get accepted to two in CA, but that MD programs like SMPs too, so I was just going that route because it covers both DO and MD. Is this a bad idea/ do you advise I just do a post bacc?


[Edit] rephrased my question!

 

[ayothen]

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. I graduated one last year at 50.

If you're not AA, then don't waste time and money on the HBCs. If you are, I don't recommend it. As the wise Med Ed has pointed out, no med school in the world is doing you any favors by admitting you if you can't hack the curriculum.

MD programs like SMPs, yes, but you have to ace them, (like GPA 3.7+ AND you need to ace the MCAT as well).

Your fastest path to being a doctor is by retaking all F/D/C science coursework and going DO.

Definitely agree. I've done some soul searching and realized that even if I do get into some HBCs (I am AA), I really won't be ready and in general, I'd rather be a strong applicant next cycle than a very weak one now. I mostly have to re take my chem classes so I'm starting a DIY post bacc this fall at either a CC or CSU (maybe even ucla extension). I hear that DO schools don't mind CC classes, but I went to a UC so I'm still weary of CC courses.

Either way, I'm actually more excited about applying later with better stats, as I should be!

 

[Goro]

More and more MD schools are dropping their distaste for CC coursework. it used to be that I could randomly peruse MSAR and find schools that prohibit some or all pre-reqs at CCs...not anymore!

I would say that when one is at a four year school, and one takes the pre-reqs at a CC at the same time, then it looks like one is trying to avoid the weeding courses.

Definitely agree. I've done some soul searching and realized that even if I do get into some HBCs (I am AA), I really won't be ready and in general, I'd rather be a strong applicant next cycle than a very weak one now. I mostly have to re take my chem classes so I'm starting a DIY post bacc this fall at either a CC or CSU (maybe even ucla extension). I hear that DO schools don't mind CC classes, but I went to a UC so I'm still weary of CC courses.

Either way, I'm actually more excited about applying later with better stats, as I should be!