Why do you, honestly, want to be a DO?

[oOKawaiiOo]

Many CCOM folks would do MD regardless, but there are other DO schools that seem to attract MD quality applicants and my school is one of them. Some of the DO schools located on the big coastal cities attract high caliber applicants with excellent stats yet settle for being DOs, you know deep down these people would rather be MDs.

So Im currently working with an emergency room physician, D.O. He is a traveler and an alumi from LECOM. He is super cool and supportive with my path to medicine. He even bought me a book from Amazon!!! AWESOME!

However, I looked at his badge....... he has an M.D on his badge........


My reaction:

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Remember, buyers remorse comes essentially in two phases. One is during 3rd year when you realize you love XYZ competitive specialty and only 4 DOs have ever matched in the ACGME and the AOA programs are either audition rotation only or located in small towns with limited pathology. The second round comes during residency interviews time when you realize you're not as competitive as you think you were while your MD friends are getting interviews from great institutions with lower stats.

It happens nearly every year around March when this or the osteopathic forum has several threads devoted to how much of a disadvantage DOs grads are compared to MD.

 

[zero0]

I constantly get junk mail from the AOA constantly telling me I made a good decision going to a DO school, I get pins, T-shirts, and other trinkets from them saying what a great choice I made to become a DO. Do you think people at LCME schools get stuff like this constantly reminding them they made a great choice to become an MD?

That's pretty hilarious considering the AOA likely won't exist in 50 years.

Anyway TL;DR

but I think it's safe to say that, all things considered being equal (location, tuition, etc.), everyone would pick MD over DO. Let's not kid ourselves people.

Don't get me wrong. I'm applying DO and would be happy to go to an osteopathic school, but you can bet your sweet ass I'll be gunning for that ACGME residency and won't bother being AOA board certified, and I'm not alone in that regard.

 

[Seth Joo]

im not saying I disagree with you, but by this logic, wouldn't the DO degree begin to become much much more main stream (and rapidly) if DO's began opening up new schools in populated areas rather than in rural locations as most seem to do now?

Most DO schools are located near major metropolitan areas, if you look at where they are located, almost all the major US cities have a DO school within an hour's drive, yet a lot of people are unfamiliar with DOs, as brand DO is like a Kia/Hyundai. The AOA is headquartered in Chicago, the third largest city in America.

Only San Diego, Houston, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Boston, do not have a DO school in their region.

Wait my bad, Pittsburgh has a DO school, a branch of LECOM is near Pittsburgh.

New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Dallas, Miami, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago, Las Vegas are all cities that have DO schools nearby. These are easily the biggest and most cosmopolitan American cities. Philly, Phoenix, and New York all three have two DO colleges in their regions. Actually NYC metro has more like three DO schools now.

If the Pasadena school opens LA will have two DO schools.

 

[el_duderino]

In the region doesn't mean in the city. There's not much awareness of those schools in those cities.

 

[Seth Joo]

In the region doesn't mean in the city. There's not much awareness of those schools in those cities.

Most of the major US metro areas have a DO school, that matters a lot, yet a lot of people out there do not know what a DO school is, its like a lot of people would not recognize a Kia.

 

[Iridescent]

Most DO schools are located near major metropolitan areas, if you look at where they are located, almost all the major US cities have a DO school within an hour's drive, yet a lot of people are unfamiliar with DOs, as brand DO is like a Kia/Hyundai. The AOA is headquartered in Chicago, the third largest city in America.

Only San Diego, Houston, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Boston, do not have a DO school in their region.

Wait my bad, Pittsburgh has a DO school, a branch of LECOM is near Pittsburgh.

New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Dallas, Miami, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago, Las Vegas are all cities that have DO schools nearby. These are easily the biggest and most cosmopolitan American cities. Philly, Phoenix, and New York all three have two DO colleges in their regions. Actually NYC metro has more like three DO schools now.

If the Pasadena school opens LA will have two DO schools.

Even with a big DO school, it's still hard to raise awareness of the DO degree. Most just don't care and automatically assume MD.

Furthermore, most DOs do not practice OMM. So how do you explain what the difference is between a DO and an MD?

 

[asdf123g]

Most DO schools are located near major metropolitan areas, if you look at where they are located, almost all the major US cities have a DO school within an hour's drive, yet a lot of people are unfamiliar with DOs, as brand DO is like a Kia/Hyundai. The AOA is headquartered in Chicago, the third largest city in America.

Only San Diego, Houston, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Boston, do not have a DO school in their region.

Wait my bad, Pittsburgh has a DO school, a branch of LECOM is near Pittsburgh.

New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Dallas, Miami, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago, Las Vegas are all cities that have DO schools nearby. These are easily the biggest and most cosmopolitan American cities. Philly, Phoenix, and New York all three have two DO colleges in their regions. Actually NYC metro has more like three DO schools now.

If the Pasadena school opens LA will have two DO schools.

maybe they should build in the city then?

 

[NotYou20]

Most DO schools are located near major metropolitan areas, if you look at where they are located, almost all the major US cities have a DO school within an hour's drive, yet a lot of people are unfamiliar with DOs, as brand DO is like a Kia/Hyundai. The AOA is headquartered in Chicago, the third largest city in America.

Only San Diego, Houston, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Boston, do not have a DO school in their region.

Wait my bad, Pittsburgh has a DO school, a branch of LECOM is near Pittsburgh.

New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Dallas, Miami, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago, Las Vegas are all cities that have DO schools nearby. These are easily the biggest and most cosmopolitan American cities. Philly, Phoenix, and New York all three have two DO colleges in their regions. Actually NYC metro has more like three DO schools now.

If the Pasadena school opens LA will have two DO schools.

Minneapolis doesn't have one either

 

[Seth Joo]

Minneapolis is a city? They got the Mayo Clinic.

As I said when it comes to brand recognition, the DO degree is like a Kia, its not even a Hyundai, its a Kia, at least it will get you to point A to B but it will impress nobody.

 

[applejackcrunch]

Broke my lurking cycle to post this.. woo.

I want to be a DO because I don't want to just treat a symptom or disease. I want to make sure that my future patients wellness is the focus- from diet to musculoskeletal manipulation- to achieve their health goals and maintain them. I want to be a team member with my patients and coworkers, not someone who simply prescribes a medication and takes 10 minutes to discuss a complex issue. I want to have the knowledge to educate my patients- not on their diseases or problems, but how to manage it and how to avoid issues in the future. You can be that and more as an MD but just the fact that there is so much more taught on the humanistic side of medicine in DO schools is worth it for me.

I plan on going into family practice specializing in weight management, diabetes education, and possibly addiction rehabilitation. These are my passions and my undergrad degree will be in Rehab studies.

 

[Iridescent]

Broke my lurking cycle to post this.. woo.

I want to be a DO because I don't want to just treat a symptom or disease. I want to make sure that my future patients wellness is the focus- from diet to musculoskeletal manipulation- to achieve their health goals and maintain them. I want to be a team member with my patients and coworkers, not someone who simply prescribes a medication and takes 10 minutes to discuss a complex issue. I want to have the knowledge to educate my patients- not on their diseases or problems, but how to manage it and how to avoid issues in the future. You can be that and more as an MD but just the fact that there is so much more taught on the humanistic side of medicine in DO schools is worth it for me.

I plan on going into family practice specializing in weight management, diabetes education, and possibly addiction rehabilitation. These are my passions and my undergrad degree will be in Rehab studies.

You can be honest with us. This isn't a why DO essay

To put it nicely, everything you just mentioned are emphasized in an MD program. There is little to no difference when it comes to empathetic care or whole body approach. Therefore you can't say one program does it better than the other.


Going into primary care is a decent reason. Many programs focus on that.


Barely anyone uses OMM btw.

 

[applejackcrunch]

View attachment 195325


You can be honest with us. This isn't a why DO essay

Haha this is the complete and honest truth. I've spent a long time trying to find my path and now that I know where I'm going.. I have good reasons to do so. Possibly wishful thinking on some of those reasons but it's really the most honest I can be. I've been on all sides of healthcare and have seen the good and bad. I know what kind of physcician I want to be.

 

[el_duderino]

Haha this is the complete and honest truth. I've spent a long time trying to find my path and now that I know where I'm going.. I have good reasons to do so. Possibly wishful thinking on some of those reasons but it's really the most honest I can be. I've been on all sides of healthcare and have seen the good and bad. I know what kind of physcician I want to be.

It might be "true" but it's based on incorrect information. It just sounds silly. DO training doesn't place different emphasis on "the whole patient" or anything like that. There isn't more training on "the humanistic side." I'm really not even sure where that stuff comes from.

 

[applejackcrunch]

View attachment 195325


You can be honest with us. This isn't a why DO essay

To put it nicely, everything you just mentioned are emphasized in an MD program. There is little to no difference when it comes to empathetic care or whole body approach. Therefore you can't say one program does it better than the other.


Going into primary care is a decent reason. Many programs focus on that.


Barely anyone uses OMM btw.

You're right. I've seen many MDs that are the most kind and caring individuals. I've also seen many MD students who began to see the patient not as a person but as a case. Not so many DO students like that. I may be generalizing here but at least at the school that is my goal to attend there is a huge emphasis on the holistic qualities of medicine.

As for OMM I think it's easy to assume I will be using in my future practice. Not many use it but it is still a useful tool for diagnosis and treatment.

 

[Iridescent]

You're right. I've seen many MDs that are the most kind and caring individuals. I've also seen many MD students who began to see the patient not as a person but as a case. Not so many DO students like that. I may be generalizing here but at least at the school that is my goal to attend there is a huge emphasis on the holistic qualities of medicine.

As for OMM I think it's easy to assume I will be using in my future practice. Not many use it but it is still a useful tool for diagnosis and treatment.

Please don't mention this in interviews. When I was intervening for my DO schools, some of my interviewers were MDs. You'll come off really wrong, even though you mean it well.

 

[zero0]

Broke my lurking cycle to post this.. woo.

I want to be a DO because I don't want to just treat a symptom or disease. I want to make sure that my future patients wellness is the focus- from diet to musculoskeletal manipulation- to achieve their health goals and maintain them. I want to be a team member with my patients and coworkers, not someone who simply prescribes a medication and takes 10 minutes to discuss a complex issue. I want to have the knowledge to educate my patients- not on their diseases or problems, but how to manage it and how to avoid issues in the future. You can be that and more as an MD but just the fact that there is so much more taught on the humanistic side of medicine in DO schools is worth it for me.

I plan on going into family practice specializing in weight management, diabetes education, and possibly addiction rehabilitation. These are my passions and my undergrad degree will be in Rehab studies.

Can I copy/paste your post when I'm filling out my secondaries? It's just such a nice summary of the most popular DO cliches.

 

[235009]

You're right. I've seen many MDs that are the most kind and caring individuals. I've also seen many MD students who began to see the patient not as a person but as a case. Not so many DO students like that. I may be generalizing here but at least at the school that is my goal to attend there is a huge emphasis on the holistic qualities of medicine.

As for OMM I think it's easy to assume I will be using in my future practice. Not many use it but it is still a useful tool for diagnosis and treatment.

Why does it seem acceptable to insult 90% of practitioners in the profession you are hoping to enter. In no other field would this be applauded.

 

[applejackcrunch]

I'm not insulting anyone. It is a well known issue that medical schools have historically lacked in teaching compassionate care- unsurprisingly, something that does need to be taught, just like anatomy or pharmacology. Some schools are remedying this, from what I've heard. I speak from my experiences with medical students over the past 10 years along with a small number of US- educated MDs who seen to have been the most heartless people I had the displeasure of encountering. The most compassionate physician I've ever worked with was a MD (though he was educated elsewhere). I don't think this is in any way the norm in medicine- I know it's not- but there is a definite issue in that area. DO schools have had more to gain by returning to the qualities upon which they were established. Again, that may not be the norm but it seems like it might be trending that way by the time I enter med school.

Edit: Apologies for typos and autocorrect errors from my phone.

 

[Iridescent]

I'm not insulting anyone. It is a well known issue that medical schools have historically lacked in teaching compassionate care- unsurprisingly, something that does need to be taught, just like anatomy or pharmacology. Some schools are remedying this, from what I've heard. i speak from my experiences with medical students over the past 10 years along with a small number of US- educated MDs who seen to have been the most heartless people I had the displeasure of encountering. The most compassionate physician I've ever worked with was a MD (though he was educated elsewhere). I don't think this is in any way the norm in medicine- I know it's not- but there is a definite issue in that area. DO schools have had more to gain by returning to the qualities upon which they we're established. Again, that may not be the norm but it seems like it might be trending that way by the time I enter med school.

My entire curriculum is centered around compassionate care, as is just about every other curriculum I have read about. Update your sources because things change

 

[applejackcrunch]

My entire curriculum is centered around compassionate care, as is just about every other curriculum I have read about. Update your sources because things change

Clearly, based on the demeanor here.

 

[Iridescent]

Clearly, based on the demeanor here.

Our intention isn't to be mean. So if it came off that way, I apologize. It's just that there are a lot of ideas in and about medicine. There are many different points of views and we simply offered you ours. Our views may be the general consensus, but we have not offered you peer-reviewed proof (also not saying it does or does not exist).

 

[el_duderino]

You're right. I've seen many MDs that are the most kind and caring individuals. I've also seen many MD students who began to see the patient not as a person but as a case. Not so many DO students like that. I may be generalizing here but at least at the school that is my goal to attend there is a huge emphasis on the holistic qualities of medicine.

As for OMM I think it's easy to assume I will be using in my future practice. Not many use it but it is still a useful tool for diagnosis and treatment.

Oh, I'm sure you've seen hundred of MD and DO students interact with patients.

 

[67552931811]

You're right. I've seen many MDs that are the most kind and caring individuals. I've also seen many MD students who began to see the patient not as a person but as a case. Not so many DO students like that. I may be generalizing here but at least at the school that is my goal to attend there is a huge emphasis on the holistic qualities of medicine.

As for OMM I think it's easy to assume I will be using in my future practice. Not many use it but it is still a useful tool for diagnosis and treatment.

Please, do expound on your personal experience with omm.....

 

[Praxis8]

@applejackcrunch, I think your attitude towards how you want to practice is awesome. But the way you deliver the message by saying MD's don't do this or that can really step on some toes as seen by the responses to your statements. Tbh, you really can't generalize and say that MDs don't teach compassionate care. I think it's definitely being emphasized. Just look at the courses on physicians as healers, started by Rachel Remen, MD: http://www.ishiprograms.org/about/rachel-naomi-remen-md/. We all have the same goals as physicians, to care for our patients.

Just some objective things that I have noticed about my DO classmates, we really don't have many straight outta college students...there's a lot more life experience, and varied backgrounds, different journeys through life to get where we are. I absolutely love my school. It is insane how collaborative the class is, and how you don't feel like people are total gunners, we honestly do a lot of resource sharing etc. I think it helps that tests aren't curved. It's kinda great. That said, you have to balance the regular medical school curriculum that MD's go through AND you have an additional 4 hours of OMM...that is hard.

The idea about viewing the person as a whole is constantly being emphasized from Day 1 because it is a fundamental philosophy of osteopathic medicine and how it's been taught for the past 100 years so really...you can't escape it. Hope you're ready for that. It's definitely something that drew me to osteopathic medicine. The caveat is that in order to practice medicine these days especially primary care, you have maybe 30 minutes or less...I think it might be 15 minutes sometimes to see a patient...and that's it. It is EXTREMELY difficult to "assess the whole person" in 30 minutes or less. Our professors try to teach us how to do this in med skills with questions about social determinants of health, diet, and exercise for the medical history, but in the real world, I really don't know how likely it would be to fit these questions and get meaningful answers. Unless you are able to find a practice/start a practice/make less money to deliver quality care which requires more time with the patient. It's a sad state of affairs and I blame corporate america for making medicine into a business and physicians for allowing it to move in this direction...that's another story.

Not many people plan to use OMM, that is very true. I think you need to come into school with both an open mind, but also remain objective and scientific. There are many techniques you will learn that do not have solid scientific backing -- this is an inherent weakness and I think there is a huge push to conduct more research and find the evidence to back up some of the more effective techniques. I think as more research comes out, we will see many of these techniques incorporated into medicine in general. I shadowed a DO that had a private practice doing OMM only and spent an hour with each patient. His patients loved him and were constantly telling me about how they were benefitting from OMT treatments for fibromyalgia, musculoskeletal trauma, etc. It's anecdotal, but I swear, call it the placebo effect whatever, there is something about certain OMM techniques that work. So don't completely discount it. I'm definitely using it in practice.

Final note: You can easily see the MD rejects stick out like sore thumbs (on SDN too) because they obviously bs-ed their way into an acceptance at an osteopathic school. Don't be one of those self loathing DOs that settled for an osteopathic medical school. I genuinely wanted to go the osteopathic route and it was the best decision I ever made. Good Luck!

 

[IslandStyle808]

Clearly, based on the demeanor here.

Don't compare MD and DO what so ever. Just say what you liked from your shadowing experiences with DOs and end it.

 

[Promethean]

Here on SDN, I hear a lot of folks who aren't able to distinguish between their own thoughts, feelings, and prejudices and those of "most." Some go a step further and conflate the "most" they imagine with "all." I'm not sure if it is just solipsism or whether they just feel threatened by difference.

I am in a DO school because I want to be a DO. I am not the only person in my class who decided that this is the right route to becoming a physician for me. I do see value in the OMM/OPP component of my education. If others don't, that is fine. I would thank them to stop talking as if I don't exist, or if I do, then I must be surpassingly rare, a unicorn not worth figuring into discussion of the matter. Or suggesting that just because many DOs don't use OMM in their practices, that none will. Many of my classmates aren't in these seats because we didn't have alternatives, but because we wanted to be, because we want to learn what we are being taught, and because we plan to use it in practice.

That should be no skin off anyone's back. It doesn't demean your degree if I get a different one. Most of my class is shooting for those positions that many DO-haters deride because we actually want to provide primary care in places that y'all don't want to go... like, we want that, it isn't a consolation prize for not being able to score well on boards. Since it isn't like we are going to be in competition with you, why the DO hate?

 

[el_duderino]

I do see value in the OMM/OPP component of my education.

How much of that education have you had?

 

[Promethean]

How much of that education have you had?

Enough to want more.

There is a difference between healthy skepticism and prejudice. I came in with an open mind, but with the expectation of being shown proof. I've already personally experienced relief of pain from receiving OMM. I balance that against people who haven't experienced it telling me that it is all hocum and bunk.

I'm not saying that there isn't room for reasonable debate about the finer points, mechanism of action, etc. But my professors do seem to know something useful, and I want to learn as much of it as possible before I start dismissing it, rather than the other way around, which is most of what I see on SDN.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

Enough to want more.

There is a difference between healthy skepticism and prejudice. I came in with an open mind, but with the expectation of being shown proof. I've already personally experienced relief of pain from receiving OMM. I balance that against people who haven't experienced it telling me that it is all hocum and bunk.

I'm not saying that there isn't room for reasonable debate about the finer points, mechanism of action, etc. But my professors do seem to know something useful, and I want to learn as much of it as possible before I start dismissing it, rather than the other way around, which is most of what I see on SDN.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

I can voucher this. Shadowing a D.O. who did OMT on a female patient for neck and back pain. She was excited for the treatment and told the physician and I, "Its better than s*x."

Good lord......

 

[zero0]

"Its better than s*x."

Eh I wouldn't go that far. But it does feel pretty good.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

Eh I wouldn't go that far. But it does feel pretty good.

I never received OMT on my end, so I wouldn't know. Im just quoting to what the patient said. I dont know if she was exaggerating or being sarcastic, but she did say it.

 

[lyana]

I would go that far.
I shadowed a DO over many days. And most of the patients benefited from the treatment. There were two ladies who literally cried because they have not felt pain free in a long long time. Some patients complained that manipulations relieved their pain for only TWO weeks, but hey can one pill do that? That DO is booked out for the next 4 months completely, so that means something.
So yes, I would go that far because I have seen it with my own eyes.

 

[Praxis8]

I would go that far.
I shadowed a DO over many days. And most of the patients benefited from the treatment. There were two ladies who literally cried because they have not felt pain free in a long long time. Some patients complained that manipulations relieved their pain for only TWO weeks, but hey can one pill do that? That DO is booked out for the next 4 months completely, so that means something.
So yes, I would go that far because I have seen it with my own eyes.

The DO I shadowed was booked out for a year with a waitlist. He's that good.

 

[Roxas]

The DO I shadowed was booked out for a year with a waitlist. He's that good.

That's been my experience as well. Our school's clinic has a PM & R floor with 5 physicians and 4-5 fellows, and it's still at least 4 weeks to get in to see anyone for OMM

 

[Roxas]

I never received OMT on my end, so I wouldn't know. Im just quoting to what the patient said. I dont know if she was exaggerating or being sarcastic, but she did say it.

Aren't you a new MS1? If so, you'll find out pretty soon.


My favorite treatments to receive so far are HVLA for tender posterior ribs (I always have 1 in the same place), and any of the cervical soft tissue stuff. I'm as skeptical as anyone about OMM, but there have been a lot of moments in the past year that have made me realize that there is in fact something to this.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

Aren't you a new MS1? If so, you'll find out pretty soon.

Who said I was an MS1? Did I get an acceptance? Unless you foreseen the future

 

[Roxas]

Who said I was an MS1? Did I get an acceptance? Unless you foreseen the future

idk, for some reason I thought you had the "med student (accepted)" thing for a while. Perhaps I'm just delirious

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

idk, for some reason I thought you had the "med student (accepted)" thing for a while. Perhaps I'm just delirious

You must have me confused with someone else. Sigh......Broken hopes.......

 

[Roxas]

You must have me confused with someone else. Sigh......Broken hopes.......

Whatevs. I'm not really wanting to dig through your post history to look for any gpa/MCAT score info you've posted, but I think most people that apply themselves can get in somewhere. Why would you be any different?

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

Whatevs. I'm not really wanting to dig through your post history to look for any gpa/MCAT score info you've posted, but I think most people that apply themselves can get in somewhere. Why would you be any different?

Less than 3.25 GPA/MCAT 28/Scribing in the emergency room with +13 MD, 1 DO (2000 hours)/ 5 LORS, possibly 6/ NonURM/ugly

 

[Roxas]

Less than 3.25 GPA/MCAT 28/Scribing in the emergency room with +13 MD, 1 DO (2000 hours)/ 5 LORS, possibly 6/ NonURM/ugly

I think you'll be just fine

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

I think you'll be just fine

Hopefully my acne would distract them, interviewers, from listening to me. And thanks! I hope I get some love this cycle!!!

 

[Seth Joo]

Less than 3.25 GPA/MCAT 28/Scribing in the emergency room with +13 MD, 1 DO (2000 hours)/ 5 LORS, possibly 6/ NonURM/ugly

You will get in somewhere.

 

[Gandyy]

So, then the big question in my mind is why do many Residency Program Directors treat DO students like they are inferior to MD students even when a DO student does better than his MD counterpart on Step 1? That really makes 0 sense to me. If anything, doesnt that show that the DO student will be a better candidate since these same program directors also think that the quality of DO school education is somehow worse? I mean think about it... Holding such a stigma..... is so childish. Dont you guys think so?

Do they think that the MCAT and UGPA are harder to obtain than surviving med school and scoring a 240+ on USMLE step 1?

Do they have any logical reasons besides this irrational stigma? I am genuinely trying to understand what is going on in these Residency Program Director's minds when they throw DO applications in the trash just because they are DO.

Maybe its not because of academics and they dont like the clinical training thats provided to the average DO student? Thats the only reason I can see them having any grounds or basis for having a stigma.

 

[el_duderino]

So, then the big question in my mind is why do many Residency Program Directors treat DO students like they are inferior to MD students even when a DO student does better than his MD counterpart on Step 1? That really makes 0 sense to me. If anything, doesnt that show that the DO student will be a better candidate since these same program directors also think that the quality of DO school education is somehow worse? I mean think about it... Holding such a stigma..... is so childish. Dont you guys think so?

Do they think that the MCAT and UGPA are harder to obtain than surviving med school and scoring a 240+ on USMLE step 1?

Do they have any logical reasons besides this irrational stigma? I am genuinely trying to understand what is going on in these Residency Program Director's minds when they throw DO applications in the trash just because they are DO.

Maybe its not because of academics and they dont like the clinical training thats provided to the average DO student? Thats the only reason I can see them having any grounds or basis for having a stigma.

A lot of assumptions in this post. Who said that PDs think that DO education is worse?

I think the "stigma" probably comes more from the clinical education than the preclinical education. MD schools, in general, seem to have ties to stronger clinical education programs. They're almost all directly affiliated with large research hospitals that themselves host numerous residency programs. Most COMs seem to have to ship their students off to other places and let them get some of their rotations in at smaller non-research community or outpatient institutions. I'm just guessing here, but to the extent that any "stigma" exists among PDs that's probably where it comes from. I'm sure there's some straight-up letters discrimination/superiority but probably not much.

 

[Gandyy]

A lot of assumptions in this post. Who said that PDs think that DO education is worse?

I think the "stigma" probably comes more from the clinical education than the preclinical education. MD schools, in general, seem to have ties to stronger clinical education programs. They're almost all directly affiliated with large research hospitals that themselves host numerous residency programs. Most COMs seem to have to ship their students off to other places and let them get some of their rotations in at smaller non-research community or outpatient institutions. I'm just guessing here, but to the extent that any "stigma" exists among PDs that's probably where it comes from. I'm sure there's some straight-up letters discrimination/superiority but probably not much.

I see. I'm not making any assumptions, I'm asking questions not making statements. In this thread alone, many have indirectly said that PD's have a stigma against DO's. I'm trying to figure out what logical reasons they have. I thought it was the clinical education. You say it probably is the clinical education, and some superiority complex bull****.

 

[notbobtrustme]

So, then the big question in my mind is why do many Residency Program Directors treat DO students like they are inferior to MD students even when a DO student does better than his MD counterpart on Step 1? That really makes 0 sense to me. If anything, doesnt that show that the DO student will be a better candidate since these same program directors also think that the quality of DO school education is somehow worse? I mean think about it... Holding such a stigma..... is so childish. Dont you guys think so?

Do they think that the MCAT and UGPA are harder to obtain than surviving med school and scoring a 240+ on USMLE step 1?

Do they have any logical reasons besides this irrational stigma? I am genuinely trying to understand what is going on in these Residency Program Director's minds when they throw DO applications in the trash just because they are DO.

Maybe its not because of academics and they dont like the clinical training thats provided to the average DO student? Thats the only reason I can see them having any grounds or basis for having a stigma.

Step 1 is not the only measure by which applicants are judged.

 

[Gandyy]

Step 1 is not the only measure by which applicants are judged.

But its the largest part isnt it?

 

[Iridescent]

So, then the big question in my mind is why do many Residency Program Directors treat DO students like they are inferior to MD students even when a DO student does better than his MD counterpart on Step 1? That really makes 0 sense to me. If anything, doesnt that show that the DO student will be a better candidate since these same program directors also think that the quality of DO school education is somehow worse? I mean think about it... Holding such a stigma..... is so childish. Dont you guys think so?

Do they think that the MCAT and UGPA are harder to obtain than surviving med school and scoring a 240+ on USMLE step 1?

Do they have any logical reasons besides this irrational stigma? I am genuinely trying to understand what is going on in these Residency Program Director's minds when they throw DO applications in the trash just because they are DO.

Maybe its not because of academics and they dont like the clinical training thats provided to the average DO student? Thats the only reason I can see them having any grounds or basis for having a stigma.

Your entire post is based off of one of the factors in the grad app, USMLE. There is so much more to it, which more knowledgable people can chime in on.

What if med schools just looked at MCAT scores? Those who got the highest get accepted.