Why do you, honestly, want to be a DO?

[Abraxas65]

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I like that many of the schools are situated in smaller communities.

But mostly I simply want to be a physician but unfortunately I was not mature enough for college in my late teens/early twenties. DOs and their grade replacement allows me the best chance of showing how I have turned my life around and that I am ready to be a medical student.

 

[Mavs88]

I was honestly interested in DO when I was in high school. I have had two personal DO doctors since then. Best shadowing experience by far, like miles ahead was a DO.

Also, let's be honest...it does help that my retake GPA is so much higher. I just want to be a Physician of the medical variety, couldn't give two craps what the initials after my name will be.

Forgot this, but someone else mentioned it...I have had two negative research experiences. I don't see myself ever again in a lab. I respect and have an appreciation for what y'all do in there, but I have literally no interest or desire to do bench work...doesn't fit my personality at all.

 

[KyleV]

I want to be a DO because I love pseudoscience!














/sarcasm

 

[Oh_Gee]

Why does this not have all the likes?
This is so clever I'm turned on a little bit. Jk





I'm turned on a lotta bit

lol please feel free to explain it me. I've only taken undergrad level physiology

 

[lyana]

Yes I do have a lower MCAT due to verbal ( not native speaker), my grades and ECs are great tho. But becoming a physician is truly my passion, so can not let one thing stop me. I just want to be a great internist who can educate and heal patients, and there is no difference in title whether its a DO or MD.
However, I did some thinking over the past months and figured that DO route suits me because I truly believe in preventive medicine, healthy diets, exercise, etc. Based on some personal experiences I witnessed how a change of lifestyle and not medications helped a person to return to his normal life. And oppositely I witnessed how the lack of education about the disease, benefits of healthy lifestyle, exercise, (but with prescription of lots pain killers and drugs) caused a disease that could be totally manageable to take someone's life very soon.

 

[Stagg737]

^^^Lolz I'm sure @KyleV realizes DO curriculum is literally exactly the same as MD curriculum plus an extra class.


To OP, I'm interested in ortho, sports med, and PM&R so learning OMM would just give me an extra tool that can help aid in my patient's recovery and going to a school that puts a greater focus on the musculoskeletal system would be beneficial for those fields. Despite what you'll hear from other uninformed pre-meds and some professionals, there are some OMM techniques that are effective and have plenty of research to back them up such as muscle energy (just search golgi tendon reflex if you don't believe it exists). I've actually shadowed an ortho MD that used ME and had more than one physical therapist use the technique on me during rehab. Are there OM techniques that are probably bs? Sure (cranial), but if you don't believe in a treatment then you don't have to use it.

 

[KyleV]

@Stagg737 Yea I do know this! I'm just trolling the people who say OMM isn't science etc. I actually want to be a DO myself

 

[Stagg737]

@Stagg737 Yea I do know this! I'm just trolling the people who say OMM isn't science etc. I actually want to be a DO myself

Sorry, it's late and I've been awake for about 30 straight hours, so my internet skillz are already asleep for the night.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Personally, I view OMM as another tool in the toolbox. You might not always need it, but hey when the time calls for it, it's something you've got that the other guy doesn't. Particularly important for when you're working in areas with inadequate resources - any tool or skill becomes an extra asset.

 

[kenjixshadow]

@Stagg737 May I know if you are going for going for ACGME or AOA ortho? I know they will be merge, but the PDs will still look at the applications the same way they do currently. (Don't quote me on this).

 

[db4277]

I had competitive stats and great ECs, especially after getting a master's from an allopathic medical school. However, I worked as a standardized patient and lab monitor at an osteopathic school and it felt more like home.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm not going for anything terribly competitive and I liked the DO schools nearby much more than the MD. I've now realized that I probably should have gone MD, because I had the stats for it and it would have landed me much better residency options in my field of choice (even though it isn't a very competitive one, half the programs in the state don't take DOs).

 

[j4pac]

Is "to meet girls that look like the girl in your avatar, and have a chance" a good enough reason? 😉

 

[Stagg737]

@Stagg737 May I know if you are going for going for ACGME or AOA ortho? I know they will be merge, but the PDs will still look at the applications the same way they do currently. (Don't quote me on this).

So the current plan is to shoot for AOA ortho (and maybe use gen surgery as a back-up for AOA, undecided on that right now). If I didn't match there, I would still be able to go through the ACGME and shoot for something like PM&R, EM, or family med (and follow through with a sports med fellowship) which I should definitely be able to get assuming I don't completely blow boards and third year. I'm actually hoping that the merger will not have occurred by the time I match so I can use my above plan. If the merger happens then I'll have to figure out if I'll have a legitimate shot at ortho or if I should pursue something else. This will be very, very dependent on how my boards turn out.

As for the PD after the merger thing, I think it depends on the field and program. I believe ortho doesn't get many ACGME matches for a few reasons. The first is that it's extremely competitive, so not applying AOA is a huge risk for any DO. If you match AOA ortho, you are then automatically pulled from ACGME. Since the better applicants will match AOA, I think most of the less favorable applicants forgo ortho in the ACGME match and shoot for something else (as I probably would). If they did decide to go for ortho, they'd be up against a group of MDs who typically have very strong applications, usually better than theirs. Combine that with the DO bias that I'm sure exists at least at some programs, and you get the results of very few DOs going into MD ortho programs (which is what we see). After the merger, no PD will be able to explicitly say "No DO applicants allowed". I do think you are correct in the sense that the attitude about not taking a DO will likely continue at many programs, especially in highly competitive fields or some top tier programs. However, I'm guessing you'll also see many former AOA programs continue to favor DO students over MDs to offset this, but that could be wishful thinking on my part.

That being said, a DO is still capable of entering any field and can get into an ACGME residency in any field (even if some specific programs hold a ridiculous bias). Some fields, like plastics, it is incredibly difficult, but it's still possible and more dependent on the individual than anything else (just like anything in medicine).

I'm not going for anything terribly competitive and I liked the DO schools nearby much more than the MD. I've now realized that I probably should have gone MD, because I had the stats for it and it would have landed me much better residency options in my field of choice (even though it isn't a very competitive one, half the programs in the state don't take DOs).

Idk, I think you should be fine for your field. Over the past 2 years the vast majority of our 20ish people to go psych went ACGME (16-17) and 3 or 4 of them ended up in the NE. One of them even went to Harvard South Shore (can't remember if that's one of the 3 solid ones in their system or if it's one of the meh ones). MD will almost always give the edge at ACGME programs, but I would think you'll still be fine at most places for your desired field. If you don't mind me asking, any particular reason you want to stay in the state you're going to school in?

 

[Mad Jack]

So the current plan is to shoot for AOA ortho (and maybe use gen surgery as a back-up for AOA, undecided on that right now). If I didn't match there, I would still be able to go through the ACGME and shoot for something like PM&R, EM, or family med (and follow through with a sports med fellowship) which I should definitely be able to get assuming I don't completely blow boards and third year. I'm actually hoping that the merger will not have occurred by the time I match so I can use my above plan. If the merger happens then I'll have to figure out if I'll have a legitimate shot at ortho or if I should pursue something else. This will be very, very dependent on how my boards turn out.

As for the PD after the merger thing, I think it depends on the field and program. I believe ortho doesn't get many ACGME matches for a few reasons. The first is that it's extremely competitive, so not applying AOA is a huge risk for any DO. If you match AOA ortho, you are then automatically pulled from ACGME. Since the better applicants will match AOA, I think most of the less favorable applicants forgo ortho in the ACGME match and shoot for something else (as I probably would). If they did decide to go for ortho, they'd be up against a group of MDs who typically have very strong applications, usually better than theirs. Combine that with the DO bias that I'm sure exists at least at some programs, and you get the results of very few DOs going into MD ortho programs (which is what we see). After the merger, no PD will be able to explicitly say "No DO applicants allowed". I do think you are correct in the sense that the attitude about not taking a DO will likely continue at many programs, especially in highly competitive fields or some top tier programs. However, I'm guessing you'll also see many former AOA programs continue to favor DO students over MDs to offset this, but that could be wishful thinking on my part.

That being said, a DO is still capable of entering any field and can get into an ACGME residency in any field (even if some specific programs hold a ridiculous bias). Some fields, like plastics, it is incredibly difficult, but it's still possible and more dependent on the individual than anything else (just like anything in medicine).



Idk, I think you should be fine for your field. Over the past 2 years the vast majority of our 20ish people to go psych went ACGME (16-17) and 3 or 4 of them ended up in the NE. One of them even went to Harvard South Shore (can't remember if that's one of the 3 solid ones in their system or if it's one of the meh ones). MD will almost always give the edge at ACGME programs, but I would think you'll still be fine at most places for your desired field. If you don't mind me asking, any particular reason you want to stay in the state you're going to school in?

I don't want to stay in the state I'm going to school in, I want to go home to my friends and girlfriend. There's only a handful of programs in my state, all of which are not all that prestigious or known for providing top-level training, save for the one that never, ever takes DOs and ranks among the top in the country. If I went IM or anesthesia instead there's a few decent programs I could get into that are close enough, but if I go into the current field I'm leaning toward, I'm likely looking at getting training that doesn't match my focus or goals unless I go at least 2-3 hours from home.

As to the first half of your post, I see no reason for discrimination against DOs to end at programs like Harvard, NYU, Yale, etc, as they need to sort applicants somehow. I have no doubt that NYU's IM program will still read that they do not accept DO candidates even post-merger.

https://www.med.nyu.edu/medicine/education/residency-faqs

 

[DavetheMD]

I am in high school

Clearly. You didn't need to clarify.

 

[Mad Jack]

The majority of people that want to go DO got ****ty grades. I can't think of any actual reason someone would want to be a DO. Some patients know that it is easier to become a DO, and that seeing an MD may be better. I am in high school, I will go for MD, but DO is ok.

Inb4 premed crash and burn. 95% of premeds don't make it to med school, I can't wait to see you talking trash when you see what you're actually in for. As to patients preferring MDs, I've actually heard more "I'd prefer to see a DO than an MD" than the other way around, because "holistic" medicine is all the rage. That being said, I've got a lot of DO classmates that had great grades and MCAT scores in the 30s- it's more than just grades that get you into med school kid.

 

[Stagg737]

I don't want to stay in the state I'm going to school in, I want to go home to my friends and girlfriend. There's only a handful of programs in my state, all of which are not all that prestigious or known for providing top-level training, save for the one that never, ever takes DOs and ranks among the top in the country. If I went IM or anesthesia instead there's a few decent programs I could get into that are close enough, but if I go into the current field I'm leaning toward, I'm likely looking at getting training that doesn't match my focus or goals unless I go at least 2-3 hours from home.

That sucks. I'd be in the same boat for ortho. My home state has 1 AOA ortho program and from what I've heard it's pretty mediocre. If I go ortho I'll more than likely end up somewhere that's at least 4 hours from anyone I know.

As to the first half of your post, I see no reason for discrimination against DOs to end at programs like Harvard, NYU, Yale, etc, as they need to sort applicants somehow. I have no doubt that NYU's IM program will still read that they do not accept DO candidates even post-merger.

I don't think it will end at many programs like that either. I haven't read the document for the merger in depth, but does it not prohibit the exclusion of a candidate solely based on degree? I know the point of the merger is more to standardize the residencies themselves and I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, but I would just think that openly making a statement of the such like NYU wouldn't be allowed since the COMLEX will be acceptable on its own instead of needing to also take the USMLE...

 

[Mad Jack]

That sucks. I'd be in the same boat for ortho. My home state has 1 AOA ortho program and from what I've heard it's pretty mediocre. If I go ortho I'll more than likely end up somewhere that's at least 4 hours from anyone I know.



I don't think it will end at many programs like that either. I haven't read the document for the merger in depth, but does it not prohibit the exclusion of a candidate solely based on degree? I know the point of the merger is more to standardize the residencies themselves and I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, but I would just think that openly making a statement of the such like NYU wouldn't be allowed since the COMLEX will be acceptable on its own instead of needing to also take the USMLE...

https://www.nbome.org/GME.asp

1. Under the unified accreditation system, will all ACGME residencies be required to accept COMLEX-USA?
   Currently, neither the COMLEX-USA nor the USMLE physician licensing examinations are specifically REQUIRED by ACGME or AOA accreditation standards for residency program application or acceptance, as the primary purpose of both of these examinations is for physician licensure. However, the use of examinations for the purpose of residency program applications and selection has been recognized as an important and widespread secondary use. In fact, the 2012 Program Director Survey of the National Resident Matching Program® indicates that 77% of ACGME-accredited programs and 100% of AOA-accredited programs already accept the COMLEX-USA. There is increasing evidence for the predictive validity of COMLEX-USA and residency program performance. The single accreditation system agreement does nothing to alter this.

 

[DrDreams]

In no particular order:
1. I think I will fit in a bit better with older students and students with families.
2. I wasn't born perfect, as MD schools expect you to be (or at least i feel this way), there was a lot of struggle to get to where I am today and I feel like MD schools really don't consider anything except grades (and MCAT)
3. I had a horrible incident of back pain that wouldnt go away and the surgeon wanted to operate on my back. i then learned of a DO, went and saw one and he fixed my back. I was unable to take a deep breath and i walked leaning on one side for 3 months. So OMM is definitely something of interest to me.
4. Located in a smaller community.

im sure there are more reasons but im at work and cant think of any right now.

 

[MedNation907]

3. I had a horrible incident of back pain that wouldnt go away and the surgeon wanted to operate on my back. i then learned of a DO, went and saw one and he fixed my back. I was unable to take a deep breath and i walked leaning on one side for 3 months. So OMM is definitely something of interest to me.

Good PS material right there!

EDIT: Sorry about your back lol glad it was fixed

 

[DrDreams]

Good PS material right there!

EDIT: Sorry about your back lol glad it was fixed

thanks lol. I definitely talked about it in my PS and my secondaries. 🙂

 

[Stephanopolous]

For me it's DO because I have worked with DO attendings and residents and they tend to share one thing in common- down to earth and approachable. The nurses and other docs like them a lot and they tend to spend more time explaining things to their patients and providing education. I've been working with MD's and DO's for 6 years now and of course there are MD's that have these qualities as well, but the overwhelming majority of DO's share them. My goal is to become that kind of physician, someone who is easy to talk to and good at caring for people.

Another reason, I'm non-traditional and I like that DO schools value this in an applicant. I didn't come straight out of high school to college and med school. I worked for several years before realizing this is what I want.

 

[StudyLater]

I understand that there's a subtle difference between this question and, "Why do you want to be a doctor?" but for me those questions are virtually equivalent. I'd attend a DO school to be a doctor, and only if MD didn't work out. I don't frankly care about the letters after my Hancock; the only reason I'm after MD is generally wider career opportunities (no getting left out in the cold because certain residencies/attending positions are "MD only"). However, depending on what specialty I go into, it may make very little difference. Therefore, a DO would be A-OK. Not because it's a DO - their particular perspectives on things are irrelevant to me. It'd be fine because I'd get to study and practice medicine. That's all I want.

 

[KyleV]

I understand that there's a subtle difference between this question and, "Why do you want to be a doctor?" but for me those questions are virtually equivalent. I'd attend a DO school to be a doctor, and only if MD didn't work out. I don't frankly care about the letters after my Hancock; the only reason I'm after MD is generally wider career opportunities (no getting left out in the cold because certain residencies/attending positions are "MD only"). However, depending on what specialty I go into, it may make very little difference. Therefore, a DO would be A-OK. Not because it's a DO - their particular perspectives on things are irrelevant to me. It'd be fine because I'd get to study and practice medicine. That's all I want.

But there is a significant difference in how a DO views, understands, communicates, and treats patients as opposed to Their MD counterparts, no?

 

[StudyLater]

But there is a significant difference in how a DO views, understands, communicates, and treats patients as opposed to Their MD counterparts, no?

I was under the impression they received similar training; hence why they work side by side in the same institutions as equals. All in all there's going to be proper protocol (with some leeway here and there, sure) for treating case X, Y, Z, etc. The DO isn't going to have such a different way of doing things that it radically deviates from what is accepted in the wider medical community - that only risks malpractice. Maybe, if anything, the DO would add on some extra, optional care in addition to what is considered adequate by all (MDs and DOs alike). Your examples of views, understanding, communication, and (to some small degree) differences in treatment, account for differences between each and every physician, within and without the DO and MD ranks. They'll all have slightly different ways of interacting with patients and treating them. I don't doubt, however, that a DO education and especially an AOA residency will certainly have an impact on how a physician ends up treating his/her patients. I just sort of doubt how large that difference is made out to be.

 

[URMD]

But there is a significant difference in how a DO views, understands, communicates, and treats patients as opposed to Their MD counterparts, no?

I also considered this question, and I ended up disagreeing. The truth is that in practice many say that MDs are indistinguishable from DO's.
I know that the board who takes care of DO's like to say all this stuff that makes DO's different, but from what I've seen, in practice, you can't tell whether the person treating you is a DO or MD unless you actually take the inclination to ask them.

Except for OMM of course but what % of DO's use OMM in their practice? This is a question I have yet to find the answer for, but im under the impression that it is low.

 

[Roxas]

But there is a significant difference in how a DO views, understands, communicates, and treats patients as opposed to Their MD counterparts, no?

Not really. It's definitely part of the PR push by osteopathic schools to make it seem like we are unique in this regard, but really any physician who is worth their salt will focus on understanding, communication, treating the disease and not symptoms, etc.

I will say a significant difference is the push for DOs to go into primary care specialties. Not that you can't specialize, but for whatever reason every year DO match lists are chalk full of FM, IM, and Peds matches. Fine for me, as I entered med school open to pretty much anything, but the "ortho or die!" classmates of mine (of whom there are many) may be in for a rude awakening in 3 years.

 

[Monkitty]

Not really. It's definitely part of the PR push by osteopathic schools to make it seem like we are unique in this regard, but really any physician who is worth their salt will focus on understanding, communication, treating the disease and not symptoms, etc.

[...]

TOTALLY agree with this but... Do you feel DO schools put a little bit more emphasis on this?

I do. Personally I'd rather be a part of a system that does place emphasis on those "soft" skills, rather than hoping the individual physician develops them. Mind you this is me looking at it on a very macro as well as micro scale.

 

[lyana]

Also I work in a neurosurgery and you guys would be shocked how many referrals we get from primary care doctors for chronic lower back pain, some tingling, etc for patients with no images or conservative treatment first. And that's another reason I am choosing DO because first I really want to be more involved in my patients healthcare, and because I really do think OMT can be helpful in many cases especially for chronic pain.

 

[Elleiram]

I honestly think being able to use OMT on my relatives who's always complaining of back pain, soreness, whatever would be so cool. Then I'd get better Christmas presents.
Seriously though, I'm actually interested in learning OMT 😀

 

[KyleV]

Not trolling here but are there legitimate parallels between OMM and techniques done at a chiropractor? I finally found a DO to shadow and he seems to be a great mentor but hasn't used OMM while I was with him yet (he has commented though that he regularly uses it, though)

 

[Stephanopolous]

I asked one of the DO's I work with that same question. He said that it's different because osteopathic focuses on low amplitude/low velocity manipulations and chiropractors do high velocity/high impact

 

[Roxas]

I asked one of the DO's I work with that same question. He said that it's different because osteopathic focuses on low impact/low velocity manipulations and chiropractors do high velocity/high impact

I can't speak for chiropractors, but we do a lot of soft tissue techniques as well. Is this something chiros do?

 

[j4pac]

Not trolling here but are there legitimate parallels between OMM and techniques done at a chiropractor? I finally found a DO to shadow and he seems to be a great mentor but hasn't used OMM while I was with him yet (he has commented though that he regularly uses it, though)

I use OMT pretty regularly, and since I am the only guy at my base who is DO who performs OMT, I go to my base chiropractor for adjustments now and then. Like physicians...some chiropractors are good and some are bad. I am very fortunate that the one I go to is very good. I am a big time Sports Med guy so I set my expectations pretty high in regard to knowledge of anatomy, biomechanics, exam, and treatment. Treatment is actually the most simple part of the equation. My brother is a brawny non-medical soldier, and he can "adjust backs" better than most DOs I know. He learned by doing. But does he know anything about anatomy, biomechanics, and diagnosis? The answer is no. I think that most DOs knowledge base for MSK anatomy, diagnosis, and treatment are all average at best...and their understanding of biomechanics is mediocre at best. I would probably say that most chiropractors have very similar attributes. I believe that the understanding of biomechanics is really what sets an MSK clinician apart.

I don't need to know that my lower back is out of alignment...I know that...my back hurts! What I need to know is why my back is out of alignment and how do I make it better so that I don't have to come back for weekly adjustments for the rest of my life.

Like DO...chiropractors...will only be good at manipulation if they put in the work to understand anatomy, biomechanics, examination, and treatment. Most don't put in the work...but the ones who do can be very good.

 

[xBODOMx]

I was a big fan of Harry Potter growing up and I wanted to learn magic.

 

[imagine1392]

1. Never really enjoyed research -- [MD schools in my area] made research a centerpiece of education = gross. I'll do research on my own terms, thank you.
2. I fit in better; better environment.
3. OMM is [from my shadowing/consulting experience] obsolete nowadays -- but I'm none the less interested in learning it, and I'll enjoy the extra knowledge base.
4. Most are located in desirable areas for me -- busy cities make me angry and hypertensive.
5. Honestly easier to apply and compare schools -- by my completely biased judgment there are a million MD schools and 20 DO schools lol
6. I wouldn't touch surgical sub sub sub sub specialties with a ten foot pole.
7. I also want to be a doctor, I guess..

I'm shadowing a pediatric DO right now and am also seeing that OMM is not being used. My rationale for applying DO is that I want to be a physician and the extra knowledge base of OMM can only help. (Why would you see a physician who lacks a set of skills that he knows are out there?) From what I hear, though, there are still some specialties where OMM may be useful like sports medicine. How would you communicate your desire to learn and use OMM while also talking about how you are interested in primary care/OB/pediatrics and other such specialties where OMM won't be heavily needed?

I also learned that OMM isn't practical from the financial perspective. When you only have 10 minutes with each patient you can't spend 9 of them on OMM, and if you spend longer how do you bill for it? Is this something I should address in my secondaries? I just don't want to be that idiot blabbering about how I want to save the world with OMM when the healthcare system basically doesn't even allow it.

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! YOU MVP!

I also learned that OMM isn't practical from the financial perspective. When you only have 10 minutes with each patient you can't spend 9 of them on OMM, and if you spend longer how do you bill for it? Is this something I should address in my secondaries? I just don't want to be that idiot blabbering about how I want to save the world with OMM when the healthcare system basically doesn't even allow it.

You don't do it for the financial incentive, you do it for the patient's state of well-being. You might not save the world, but you COULD save people from becoming medication addicts. Don't let money drown you because you're going to end up looking like a paycheck to lawyers when you misdiagnose a finding.

 

[Grace184]

I use OMT pretty regularly, and since I am the only guy at my base who is DO who performs OMT, I go to my base chiropractor for adjustments now and then. Like physicians...some chiropractors are good and some are bad. I am very fortunate that the one I go to is very good. I am a big time Sports Med guy so I set my expectations pretty high in regard to knowledge of anatomy, biomechanics, exam, and treatment. Treatment is actually the most simple part of the equation. My brother is a brawny non-medical soldier, and he can "adjust backs" better than most DOs I know. He learned by doing. But does he know anything about anatomy, biomechanics, and diagnosis? The answer is no. I think that most DOs knowledge base for MSK anatomy, diagnosis, and treatment are all average at best...and their understanding of biomechanics is mediocre at best. I would probably say that most chiropractors have very similar attributes. I believe that the understanding of biomechanics is really what sets an MSK clinician apart.

I don't need to know that my lower back is out of alignment...I know that...my back hurts! What I need to know is why my back is out of alignment and how do I make it better so that I don't have to come back for weekly adjustments for the rest of my life.

Like DO...chiropractors...will only be good at manipulation if they put in the work to understand anatomy, biomechanics, examination, and treatment. Most don't put in the work...but the ones who do can be very good.

I completely agree with your chiropractor statement- they tend to get a lot of flack but there are awesome ones out there.

I went to one after many years of lower back pain (standing in the same spot for 10+ hrs for 5 yrs as a pharm intern) and this constant neck pain (that had been for years- I figured it was stress). he felt up and down my spine and told be to get a spine x-Ray before he would work on me. He said one of my feet was also 1/2in shorter than the other (that explained why I rolled my ankle so much in soccer!) anyway the X-ray came back and I had undiagnosed scoliosis, and cervical kyphosis. I go every week for a month, with 2 mos off while I do my own exercises, while he does leg pulls and other gentle pulls (he never really abruptly "cracks") but he won't touch my neck, although he uses the TENS on it. I don't know what to do about that, I don't have full ROM, but I digress...

If anyone has an HBO subscription and has HBO go app or has it on Hulu, I suggest checking out Penn and Teller's episode on Chriopractors- now they have a quack! This guy adjusted an 18 day old baby! He adjusts whole families, children, it's crazy.

 

[imagine1392]

You don't do it for the financial incentive, you do it for the patient's state of well-being. You might not save the world, but you COULD save people from becoming medication addicts. Don't let money drown you because you're going to end up looking like a paycheck to lawyers when you misdiagnose a finding.

I wasn't saying I'm concerned that DOs don't make money (there are much easier ways to make money than going into medicine and anyone who's in this purely for the money is pretty dumb), I'm just wondering how you rationalize the value of a skill that's rarely even used by practicing DOs.

From what the DO I'm shadowing has told me being trained as a DO gives you an additional perspective on medicine. I like what you said about the use of OMM in preventing addiction. I feel like as a culture we need a pill for everything, even when all we really need to do is get some rest. Do you think that's something I could talk about in a secondary? That I want to go to DO school because I'll gain the skills necessary to getting to the root of the problem and solving it with more meaningful (and probably less potentially harmful) interventions than just prescribing a pill for everything?

 

[ERK123]

I wasn't saying I'm concerned that DOs don't make money (there are much easier ways to make money than going into medicine and anyone who's in this purely for the money is pretty dumb), I'm just wondering how you rationalize the value of a skill that's rarely even used by practicing DOs.

From what the DO I'm shadowing has told me being trained as a DO gives you an additional perspective on medicine. I like what you said about the use of OMM in preventing addiction. I feel like as a culture we need a pill for everything, even when all we really need to do is get some rest. Do you think that's something I could talk about in a secondary? That I want to go to DO school because I'll gain the skills necessary to getting to the root of the problem and solving it with more meaningful (and probably less potentially harmful) interventions than just prescribing a pill for everything?

I think you asked a totally fair question. The few DO's who I know (for the record I do not know a lot yet) who use OMM in their practice use OMM almost exclusively. I think most of their patients pay out of pocket and I might they add pay quite a bit.

As for for the content of your second paragraph, I think that you highlight a general idea that is appropriate for certain secondary questions. The idea that DO's treat patients as whole individuals and not a list of symptoms is a mantra present in nearly every DO school's mission statement that I have read. I think there are people on SDN who will tell you that this is a load of bull**** and that all doctors, whether MD or DO, are trained to look at the patient as an whole individual. While this is probably correct, I think it is also largely irrelevant to applicants. The purpose of your application is to impress the ADCOM while also remaining honest and genuine. There is nothing wrong about drinking some of the cool aid that people in academic medicine like to hear even if you have some uncertainty about the applicability of a medical school's mission statement to the treatment of patients. There is nothing wrong with being somewhat idealistic and admittedly ignorant as an applicant, after all, how much experience do any of as have at this point to prove otherwise? I would just warn you to be forthcoming about your interests while also being cautious about expectations by quantifying that you are still, to some extent, ignorant about what it takes to be a good physician.

 

[brood910]

The majority of people that want to go DO got ****ty grades. I can't think of any actual reason someone would want to be a DO. Some patients know that it is easier to become a DO, and that seeing an MD may be better. I am in high school, I will go for MD, but DO is ok.

GPA: 3.9
MCAT: 30

And I am still going for DO.
So, you are an idiot. I am pretty sure you are not even smart enough to go to a college.

 

[ComputerGuy365]

GPA: 3.9
MCAT: 30

And I am still going for DO.
So, you are an idiot. I am pretty sure you are not even smart enough to go to a college.

I wrote that a month ago. I apologized for that if you saw one of my other threads. Your telling me you didn't do stupid things in high school? Yes I was wrong, but it's a pretty ignorant thing to tell me that one stupid thing I said automatically makes me not smart enough to go to college.

 

[ERK123]

I wrote that a month ago. I apologized for that if you saw one of my other threads. Your telling me you didn't do stupid things in high school? Yes I was wrong, but it's a pretty ignorant thing to tell me that one stupid thing I said automatically makes me not smart enough to go to college.

Relax. I am sure he or she was only joking.

 

[StudyLater]

GPA: 3.9
MCAT: 30

And I am still going for DO.
So, you are an idiot. I am pretty sure you are not even smart enough to go to a college.

Well, he/she did say the majority of people, so the presentation of your personal situation is a non-sequitur. Though "sh***y" is a relative term. If we define it as lesser than MD stats, then the high schooler is correct. If we define sh***y as a 3.0, he is incorrect about an average applicant. But we don't know what he meant. Being impulsively insulting, however, does not make this person incapable of learning at the university level. You're mad. Just breathe. People say things and don't mean them to come off how they do; I understand it's simpler to jump the gun, however. Human faults suck. You both have them.

I wrote that a month ago. I apologized for that if you saw one of my other threads. Your telling me you didn't do stupid things in high school? Yes I was wrong, but it's a pretty ignorant thing to tell me that one stupid thing I said automatically makes me not smart enough to go to college.

I believe you should be capable of knowing, by high school, that you need to have large body of information available to you from several, diverse sources before making a judgment on anything. Then in college you'll solidify the conviction that often times the number of conflicting sources you encounter means very few things are definitive and not under arbitrary dispute. I'm sure there are MD's in practice today who would have agreed with your previous statement, but again, you've got to tell us what "sh***y" is supposed to mean, first, before stating DO's get sh***y grades. Some will define what you are defining as sh***y to be a 3.1, some a 2.6, and you yourself might defne sh***y as a 3.5 (which for MD schools, admittedly, is below average matriculant stats). Nontheless, sh***y has a negative connotation; it was pointless to use such a descriptor unless you were trying to purposefully insight argument (or were truly unaware anyone would be offended, which I highly doubt).

 

[ComputerGuy365]

I better understand it now. The way I worded it was very blunt, so I will reword it in a more diplomatic way.

Most (I Said Most not all) people that go DO are on the lower end in terms of numbers, unless they are genuinely interested in osteopathic philosophy. MD's can land placement into certain residency programs that don't even consider DO's. I meant low grades relative to the average MD matriculant. 3.0 for DO is below average. For MD, 3.0 is terribly lethal. @brood910 Also, care to explain why did you choose DO with your stats? Cause I'm seriously wondering if you're the idiot. Not saying it's a bad decision, but why DO specifically?

 

[NonTrad16]

I better understand it now. The way I worded it was very blunt, so I will reword it in a more diplomatic way.

Most (I Said Most not all) people that go DO are on the lower end in terms of numbers, unless they are genuinely interested in osteopathic philosophy. MD's can land placement into certain residency programs that don't even consider DO's. I meant low grades relative to the average MD matriculant. 3.0 for DO is below average. For MD, 3.0 is terribly lethal.

Ok through here...

Also, care to explain why did you choose DO with your stats? Cause I'm seriously wondering if you're the idiot.

Back to being, as you would call it, 'blunt'? I'd focus on how to be clear without saying things in a way that will obviously result in an emotionally driven response. Something funny about younger years is impulse control. You can practice it, or not. (Note: older people can also fail to practice it, that doesn't make it a good idea.)

 

[StudyLater]

MD's can land placement into certain residency programs that don't even consider DO's.

Be careful. You've got to be up on the latest developments before making a sweeping statement; you've got to know whatever you're saying will be true ~9-12 (depends on where you are in HS) years in the future. Will DO's eventually have full access to previously MD-only ACGME residencies? I'll leave that for you to research. An important follow-up question is this: if they gain access, will there still be a hidden stigma at some programs? This is worth considering as a premed, because it is part of the decision making process of which sort of school you intend to attend.

Also, care to explain why did you choose DO with your stats? Cause I'm seriously wondering if you're the idiot. Not saying it's a bad decision, but why DO specifically?

Remember english class? Diction, man! Diction! It can mean the difference between "you're wonderful" and "I sincerely hate you." I'm not saying the corresponding rash judgment of others based on a single word can't be seen as ridiculous; I'm just saying being linguistically sensitive is an essential for dealing with gatekeepers, who intend to keep traditional professionalism intact.

 

[mimelim]

I did not say what you have quoted. In fact, I hadn't posted in this thread until now.....

 

[bartzx3]

I want to be a leader in the healthcare of my patients. I would be lying if I said that I didn't have dreams of becoming an MD but I have been unsuccessful in my attempts, so DO seems like a solution to my goal.