I'm intolerant of fascist neonazis like Orban no matter what country they hail from
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I'm intolerant of fascist neonazis like Orban no matter what country they hail from
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deleted171991
Orban is not a fascist, he's an autocrat. Orban is a formerly moderate right leader who had to move more to the (populist) right to prevent the real fascists/neonazis to come to power. He's more like Putin whom he admires. And he's absolutely right about mass Muslim immigration into Hungary. They don't belong there, and the locals are not responsible for what's going on in Muslim countries. What's wrong with you?
Eastern Europe (including Hungary) was under Muslim rule for hundreds of years. They don't yearn for more.
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Based on what you're writing, it's clear that you think that I, as a Jew of European ancestry with relatives wiped out by German National Socialists, am a part of a vast international conspiracy to put down other ethnic minority, and that I should be "put down" for my ideas and my race.
Based on what you've written, you've espoused a deep-seated fear or hate of Muslims no matter which background you hail from.
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deleted171991
You have to realize you're talking about issues you have no idea about. It's like me telling you about Malaysia (never been there).
And, while I usually disagree with Mikkel, I doubt he's a white supremacist. He probably just prefers certain cultures and values to others. This bullsh-t that the whole humanity should be a big happy loving family, and everybody should mix with everybody else, is just that, bullsh-t. We have to celebrate our common traits, and also our differences (the latter only with people who really do want to celebrate them with us).
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I've traveled to a dozen different European countries. I'm moderately well-read on the issues that Europe faces with refugees. My German used to be OK 10 years ago. There are a plethora of people who disagree with you on Muslim immigration into Europe, and just because they disagree with you doesn't mean they have "no idea" about it.
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deleted171991
Via Drudge (Is he becoming an anti-Trumper?):
thehill.com
How to shut down your Trump-supporting family member at Thanksgiving dinner
With Trump siding with authoritarians and dictators around the world, American credibility and popularity on the international stage has plummeted to historic lows.
thehill.com
Happy thanksgiving to you all,
Just a few points to add,
If you don’t want refugees, don’t **** up their countries and destabilize their societies. The current mass refugee crisis is the direct ramification of wars and economic policies of the west to protect their interests.
Agree, that Europeans have the right to live in their homogenous societies, it’s their native land, they are right to protect it.
Muslims in North America are much different than Muslims in Europe. They are much more educated, seek to assimilate, and have high incomes. Muslims in Europe are largely isolated, are less educated, and resist assimilation and reproduce at higher rates. This inherently creates a problem.
Also, Muslims in France is not a recent phenomenon and is not due to refugees. You can thank French colonialism of Algeria and Morocco for that. Please stop politicizing it.
Just a few points to add,
If you don’t want refugees, don’t **** up their countries and destabilize their societies. The current mass refugee crisis is the direct ramification of wars and economic policies of the west to protect their interests.
Agree, that Europeans have the right to live in their homogenous societies, it’s their native land, they are right to protect it.
Muslims in North America are much different than Muslims in Europe. They are much more educated, seek to assimilate, and have high incomes. Muslims in Europe are largely isolated, are less educated, and resist assimilation and reproduce at higher rates. This inherently creates a problem.
Also, Muslims in France is not a recent phenomenon and is not due to refugees. You can thank French colonialism of Algeria and Morocco for that. Please stop politicizing it.
I don't think I'd call Malaysia highly secular. Islam is the state religion. It has Sharia courts that take precedence over civil courts - granted, they only have authority over Muslims, and they don't have jurisdiction in all matters. But they do have jurisdiction over apostasy, religious conversion, and what we'd usually see in family courts (marriage, divorce, custody, etc). I'm a little skeptical that Muslims punished by the Sharia courts take any solace in the fact that only Muslims can be abused thusly.
3 weeks ago in Malaysia: Housewife Charged With Six Counts Of Insulting Islam
6 months ago in Malaysia: Malaysian Jailed For 10 Years For Insulting Islam
Sounds like a great place.
What majority Muslim nations can really be called secular? Tunisia, I suppose, though they're just a few years out from deposing a dictator, so not sure where that'll go long term. Egypt. Syria was 😉 when Assad had his boot on everyone's neck. Looks like he'll get another chance. Turkey used to be.
Iran ... obviously isn't a secular state now, but it seems like there's potential. Of course, I've been hearing for 30 years now that "the young people of Iran don't like the ayatollah and a popular revolution is imminent" ...
I agree tolerance is a virtue. I try to see the best in everyone and I'm an optimist at heart. I confess my patience is a little thin though.
lmao are you dumb?
Agree with alot of this. Well articulated.
Hmmmmmmm... seems like people want to talk alot about problems and not solutions... makes you wonder about their intention for arguing..
Almighty Lord,
Never let us forget that 2 to 3 hundred years ago the West was extremely barbaric, and didnt actually adhere to the values of freedom and liberty that it advertises. Also never let us forget that cultures that have been ravaged by war, colonialism, and greed of the West were at the forefront of progress in all walks of life while the West was in the dark ages, and that the West took influence from these cultures that they now see as backward.
Thanks for everything you do 4 me.
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deleted50478
Here’s a good start in bringing backward cultures into the modern era (or into the 18th century/enlightenment era at least!) and in stopping modern western society from its continued back-sliding, anti-intellectualism.
Religions don't deserve special treatment
AC Grayling: It is time to reverse the prevailing notion that religious commitment is intrinsically deserving of respect.
I didn't say it was perfect, but you can't have a country that has 25% ethnic Chinese and 10% ethnic Indians (like my Hindu gparents who moved there 60 yrs ago, were govt employees, and who love living there) and then try to argue with me that the country doesn't have some significant degree of secularism. Yes, it is a Muslim country with a Muslim government. It has problems with the intertwining of state and religion (just like a particular country I know of where a bunch of conservatives on the supreme court are about to ban abortion any day now).
But, it's also a country where the constitution expressly states a person has the right to profess and practice his religion. It's also a place where you can go out clubbing in downtown KL, get hammered drunk, and order order some pork noodles without repercussions.
Beyond nitpicking about the definition of securalism, the main point I want to make is that a country like Malaysia (and some parts of Indonesia) are proof that there are places other than America where multiculturalism works and Muslims and non-Muslims coexist relatively peacefully, and that all the scaremongering about Muslim refugees or immigrants is based more on tropes and stereotypes than fact.
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deleted126335
I am sure that absent European colonialism, Muslim lands would be flowering, tolerant, peaceful societies and leading the world in contributions to science, art, philosophy, literature.
If you look at the atrocities of colonialism and other involvement of the west in Muslim lands, that you can come to the conclusion they would be far more tolerant, vibrant societies than they are today. If everything was in reverse, and Europe was the one being subjugated for centuries, there is absolutely no way it would be where it is today.
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deleted171991
Europe WAS subjugated for centuries, i.e. Eastern Europe by the Ottoman Empire (they almost conquered Vienna). Let's not mention the natural resources present in many Muslim countries, far beyond Europe.
And I am sorry, but I don't think it's colonialism that stays between Muslim countries and democracy. It's the religion. Most countries that are "left behind" (including my native one) usually have problems with customs, traditions, lifestyle, VALUES/MORALS, EDUCATION AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP, that are strongly related to the local brand of religion. The same way the Christian protestant religions have been very successful for their believers (I am not one of them).
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deleted171991
The main difference is that it was longer ago. All those Europeans with their noses, ears, tongues, heads etc. cut were not laughing, I am sure. How about the Janissaries and other army conscripts? Etc.
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deleted171991
I am not supporting any wars, especially not "revenge" ones. But stop looking for excuses. There are REASONS why some societies/groups rise and others don't. Sometimes it's (bad) luck; usually it's more than that, it's good or bad HABITS.
Evolution is not called survival of the luckiest for a reason.
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deleted171991
Money can fix problems anywhere, short-term. For long-term success, money is not enough (look at all those petrodollars).
Yes, infrastructure is important, but putting the peasant in the palace doesn't make him a king overnight. Look at what happens to inherited wealth along generations: more often than not, it disappears.
The main reason certain groups are successful in America (and all around the world) is their good HABITS (stuff like hard work, entrepreneurship, focus on education, working together for common success - instead of infighting etc.).
Have you ever wondered how a small country such as The Netherlands (or the Italian city-states, e.g. Venice) could be so successful historically? Sorry, survival of the fittest.
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deleted126335
If that were true the OPEC oil revenues would have fixed things in Saudi Arabia and Iran long ago.
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
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deleted126335
I would argue that we are superior to them and they know it which is why they hate us. BTW, it is not about skin color but culture.
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deleted171991
Whispers: I grew up in a developing country, we were not among the fittest either.
And I did post above what (I think) matters, beyond just being lucky (right place, right time) or the opposite (in the middle of the Civilization game map, surrounded by all the blood-thirsty conquerors).
Come on, this is almost like businesses. Why do most disappear while others flourish?
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deleted87051
Meh. Iran had Rumi and Hafiz before any westerners showed up.
List of scientists in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia
🙂
Whole lot of deservant nobel prize Muslims in a time before white supremacists colonialized... just saying... sips tea
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First of all you're not superior because you were given the tools to succeed when compared to 3rd world Muslim kids. And the point I was making was that the situation in the world today IS based on race, and the oppression from whites, which is why they enjoy a higher standard of living and less hostile views about life.
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deleted126335
That's what they used to be. We are now everything that they once were. Our technology, Science, Engineering and Culture lead the world. We do it by doing almost everything their religion says is wrong. We've deeply sinned yet we've won. They can't save face. It is not even that we win, but the their score is virtually zero.
Muslims are no less brilliant than anyone else. But they are incapable of making world class contributions in Islamic societies. Those countries need to own it instead of blaming the West and Israel for thier utter complete failures.
Muslims are no less brilliant than anyone else. But they are incapable of making world class contributions in Islamic societies. Those countries need to own it instead of blaming the West and Israel for thier utter complete failures.
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deleted171991
Thank you for your input, comrade.
Let me just suggest to you that a bad workman always blames his tools. The first thing you'll see with successful people is that they are not interested in blaming others, they are interested in fixing the problems. If life gives them lemons, they make (and sell) lemonade. By the way, that's such an American saying (and illustrates so well why this country is successful).
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deleted87051
I believe a historical figure named Jesus Christ also hailed from the Middle East and was probably not a white dude. But yeah they didn’t make any significant cultural contributions.
fallacy after fallacy. Whos we? like really. Keep pushing the we vs them mentality like its some type of competition. Muslims HAVE made world class contributions while being deeply devoted to Islam. And yea you can blame the West for alot of turbulence in the middle east, africa, etc.
Will Trump win again???
It is possible but can't say with confidence since it's currently impossible to predict.
It is possible but can't say with confidence since it's currently impossible to predict.
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deleted171991
We all know that Jews and Muslims have never done anything good for human civilization. And that they are never White.
</sarcasm> (to be clear)
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deleted171991
Yes, many centuries ago, may Allah bless them for algebra, astronomy and all the other good stuff. Nobody denies the greatness of some past civilizations or scientists for many countries. Stop feeding on the past, carpe diem!
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deleted171991
You and your whiteface... 😛
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deleted171991
I am sure religious fundamentalism and closed-mindedness contributes to the lack of progress in ANY country. It has, historically, for many countries and religions (dogma is a natural enemy of enlightment and progress). Liberal democracies have been successful exactly because they were LIBERAL, which included an element of laissez-faire so important for business and commerce and economic growth. Autocracies/theocracies usually don't do so well.
Anyway, the discussion was about the place of Islam in Europe. And you're a bit paranoid about me. I really do wish the best to Muslims, I just don't think they are good for Europe in large numbers.
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Fredo from the Godfather, and Donald Trump Jr agree
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deleted171991
That was AGES ago. This is loser mentality, to paraphrase Donald Trump. The folks in my native country do the same stupid thing: sing praises to the glorious past and blame other nations.List of scientists in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
🙂
Whole lot of deservant nobel prize Muslims in a time before white supremacists colonialized... just saying... sips tea
Let me tell you, like a practical American (J.R. Ewing): that's very nice, but almost nobody else gives a sh-t (I personally do, because I respect great minds). What matters is TODAY, the present, and the future. Realpolitik, business mindset. That's why Donald Trump does business with murderous Saudi princes.
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deleted50478
The next few generations of Muslim Americans will be pretty religious and forthright citizens, with success in their fields and embodying enlightenment ideals, however what I worry is that religiosity may be lost. We were learning in AP gov the other day, that the US is much much more religious than any of the European countries, and I think we are better because of it ( whether the symbolism of religion or even active practicing) because the US is liberal compared to the other "Western" countries, yet hold on to certain beliefs which kind of hold it together. Another one of these values is diversity. Myy point is that I hope the US stays religious in the way it is.
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