Will Trump win again???

[vector2]

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QOL and economic division details are relevant - perhaps especially relevant in your former home of Manhattan, where Wall Street is a large GDP driver. Now, I know that we all love savvy investment strategies in anesthesiology and radiology, but I can't say that I have a lot of love for the finance types and their daily work mindset. And don't argue based on a hypothetical; it's weak and impotent.

What you're not realizing is that QOL and economic division aren't more equitable in more rural and suburban because all the people got together and sang kumbaya and decided that that was more fair. They appear to be more equitable because those areas aren't generating 1000% more per capita in economic output, thus there simply isn't a mechanism whereby a lot of people can just rise multiple standard deviations above and acquire multimillion dollar fortunes. You can single out finance if you wish, but aside from the moral arguments, economic output is economic output and banks do a lot of that. And also as the other poster pointed out earlier, in addition to finance these liberal areas inside and outside of nyc also lead in research, healthcare, architecture, engineering, aviation, transportation, green energy, tech, and the social/cultural arts.

Not going to defend Trump on that. My suspicion is that he went along with that to mollify the corporatists in his party, and I didn't approve of it.

Just out of curosity, which parts of his agenda do go along with your presumably conservative populist principles?

Did I make a "socialist" argument for state price controls? I pointed out a reality - how you view it is up to you. I don't mind that some people are making 50k/day. I'm pointing out a phenomenon that's been understood for generations: when you have massive wealth divisions in close proximity, it's a recipe for societal instability.

Awww, don't be disingenuous with a 'oh, I was just pointing out facts, man' kind of statement. You made a prescriptive assertion that the wealth inequality in liberal metros is something not to be desired, you just railed against wall street, and now youre saying you're ok with ppl making 50k a day? Which is it?

The inference from you asserting earlier that wealth inequality is undesirable is that somebody should do something about it. You meant for a reader of your post to be taken aback that a restaurant could serve a $200 entree down the street from a subway where workers have to commute into the city. Now, if a restaurant of their own free will is able to offer a dish for that much and a diner of his own free will wants to pay for it, that is capitalism and the free market at work.

Guess what the system is called when you think the wagyu ribeye can only cost $20 and the midtown apartment is maximum $1k per month?

 

[medgator]

Can I ask

Can I ask how old you are—and I’m not being facetious? I am a longtime partner at fairly large law firm and I can tell you that most of my colleagues and good friends are conservative. This is equally true of many of my colleagues at other firms, so where you got this notion that the left controls such circles is just entirely wrong and I’ve been practicing for over 30 years. Same with my wife’s medical group where she is a partner, I would safely say that there is an equal distribution of the right and left. As for the academy, I formerly taught at the college of Eli (look it up) and while it was certainly progressive, there was no shortage of academics with conservative leanings and opinions.

I voted Romney and McCain before Trump turned me into a straight ticket Democrat. If we start seeing some non pathological GOP presidential candidates again I'd vote for them in a heartbeat (Bill weld)

 

[medgator]

QOL and economic division details are relevant - perhaps especially relevant in your former home of Manhattan, where Wall Street is a large GDP driver. Now, I know that we all love savvy investment strategies in anesthesiology and radiology, but I can't say that I have a lot of love for the finance types and their daily work mindset. And don't argue based on a hypothetical; it's weak and impotent.

Not going to defend Trump on that. My suspicion is that he went along with that to mollify the corporatists in his party, and I didn't approve of it.

Did I make a "socialist" argument for state price controls? I pointed out a reality - how you view it is up to you. I don't mind that some people are making 50k/day. I'm pointing out a phenomenon that's been understood for generations: when you have massive wealth divisions in close proximity, it's a recipe for societal instability.

Yup, which is why I honestly think Warren will be less devastating for society at this point than Trump given the choice of a left wing vs right wing populist.

Trump's policies have only exacerbated income inequality

U.S. Income Inequality Worsens, Widening To A New Gap

The gap between the richest and the poorest U.S. households is now the largest it's been in the past 50 years, the U.S. Census Bureau says.

www.npr.org

Warren would actually address the swamp head on, rather than contribute to it

Eliminate the carried interest loophole

"As part of this reform, we will eliminate the carried interest deduction and other special interest loopholes that have been so good for Wall Street…

www.politifact.com

 

[medgator]

Guess what the system is called when you think the wagyu ribeye can only cost $20 and the midtown apartment is maximum $1k per month?

Or that a business can't manufacture in another country...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

In all seriousness though Kansas shouldn’t be held up as some beacon to strive toward. The policy decisions of the last decade have been a failed experiment in conservative economics. It is only due to the repeal of such policies that the state has rebounded.

I know almost nothing about Kansas politics. But 2014 Wichita was nice.

 

[Stank811]

While you are big on pithy platitudes, if you are looking for facts, your assertions don’t really hold water, the ten most visited cities in the US and not a R among them....see:The Most Visited Cities In The US

Atlanta top 3 haha. I think they consider visitors as anyone who happens to walk into an airport.

Big cities have a bunch of people that are willing to work for pennies on the dollar even though they might have a “higher education” which is attractive to big companies bc that is how you make a ton of money.

Medicine is a pertinent example for all of us posting. People are willing to do the exact same thing I do in Atlanta or Chicago for 1/4 of what I make...?

 

[deleted643396]

Atlanta top 3 haha. I think they consider visitors as anyone who happens to walk into an airport.

Big cities have a bunch of people that are willing to work for pennies on the dollar even though they might have a “higher education” which is attractive to big companies bc that is how you make a ton of money.

Medicine is a pertinent example for all of us posting. People are willing to do the exact same thing I do in Atlanta or Chicago for 1/4 of what I make...?

Medicine is unusual in that regard. I have a few friends in NYC who either cannot find their line of work anywhere else or would make substantially less if they took a similar job elsewhere (even when considering cost of living).

 

[Stank811]

Medicine is unusual in that regard. I have a few friends in NYC who either cannot find their line of work anywhere else or would make substantially less if they took a similar job elsewhere (even when considering cost of living).

I agree often bc jobs don’t translate as well. I have several family members in similar situations in which they are so sub specialized in business or tech that moving to a smaller city often requires them to be more of a generalist in their field which makes them uncomfortable bc they no longer or feel like they no longer have those skill sets...but per hr worked they tell me they would do better moving

 

[PainDrain]

I know almost nothing about Kansas politics. But 2014 Wichita was nice.

Wichita poo problem

San Francisco poo problem

 

[BLADEMDA]

Attendees cheer as Senator Elizabeth Warren speaks at the Polk County Steak Fry in Des Moines, Iowa, on Saturday, Sept. 21, 2019. Warren was greeted on the main stage by thousands of her signature “liberty green”-colored signs and chants of “two cents” in support of her proposed 2% tax on the assets of people worth $50 million or more.
Daniel Acker | Bloomberg | Getty Images

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

The Attitudes of the American People have shifted LEFT over the past 3 years. Warren will be able to go head to head with Trump by sticking with her economic agenda.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[Mikkel]

The Attitudes of the American People have shifted LEFT over the past 3 years. Warren will be able to go head to head with Trump by sticking with her economic agenda.

The left has shifted left, but I think it scares a lot of people who didn't vote for Trump the last time around.

Is the USA really majority socialist?

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[medgator]

The Attitudes of the American People have shifted LEFT over the past 3 years. Warren will be able to go head to head with Trump by sticking with her economic agenda.

People wanted real populism, not fake populism masquerading with white nationalism

 

[medgator]

View attachment 282322

I bet it would be even more dramatic by age, rather than political affiliation

 

[sevenup]

I mentioned it earlier, Yang's main plan, a $1000/month welfare check, excludes illegal immigrants. Because Yang is targeting illegal immigrants as less deserving than poor white Americans, his plan will be considered racist at best, and white supremacist at worst.

If his plan includes illegal immigrants because of this, it will never pass, and his entire platform is gone. Unelectable.

I don't see how excluding non-citizens from a benefit of citizenship is considered "racist," and I don't think the vast majority of Democrats and independents see it that way either. Non-citizens, legal or illegal, also cannot vote or run for office.

The Freedom Dividend of $1000/month is not a "welfare check." Welfare has a social stigma and dis-incentivizes people from working out of for fear of losing their welfare benefits; universal basic income gives lower and middle class Americans breathing room so that they are not living paycheck to paycheck. For physicians, unless you are spending over $120,000 a year on VAT applicable items, you can consider it a tax credit of up to $1000 per month depending on your spending.

 

[d9sccr]

I don't see how excluding non-citizens from a benefit of citizenship is considered "racist," and I don't think the vast majority of Democrats and independents see it that way either. Non-citizens, legal or illegal, also cannot vote or run for office.

The Freedom Dividend of $1000/month is not a "welfare check." Welfare has a social stigma and dis-incentivizes people from working out of for fear of losing their welfare benefits; universal basic income gives lower and middle class Americans breathing room so that they are not living paycheck to paycheck. For physicians, unless you are spending over $120,000 a year on VAT applicable items, you can consider it a tax credit of up to $1000 per month depending on your spending.

View attachment 282364

I've listened to him speak on several podcasts. I don't really think the UBI is a bad idea, but where I really disagree with it is:

1) He asserts that people will get off all the different welfare programs because they sign up for the UBI. A condition of the UBI is you forfeit those other programs forever. A lot of those programs confer >$12k/yr. I just don't see people giving that up, even though there are no strings attached to this.

2) There's only one direction this thing is going to go and just further adds to the overall "size" of government. I get that he thinks you'll reduce different departments, I just don't buy it

 

[BLADEMDA]

We have all been warned by others from the past that once government starts giving away money to curry voters this republic won’t last very long.

The eventual downfall of this nation will be her lack of fiscal restraint combined with loss of moral compass. Once a nation starts on a road of reckless spending (both parties guilty) along with moral decay (Dems greater than GOP) combined with utter lack of respect for the founding principles the downfall is all but a certainty.

The citizens are even willing to turn to Socialism because the decay has gotten to the point that neither party has lived up to its responsibility in good governance.

These days I’m seeing the extreme wings of both parties run the show while the vast majority of us are forced along for the ride.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[medgator]

. Once a nation starts on a road of reckless spending (both parties guilty) along with moral decay (Dems greater than GOP)

The last few decades show the dems to be more fiscally conservative. Reps spend as badly as Dems do but then cut taxes on top of it. Worst example by far was gwb with Medicare part D, unfunded wars and the big regressive, unfunded tax cut.

Moral decay? Pretty sure 45 takes the cake there from either party. Amorality all around.

Richard Branson, Elon musk etc agree with yang on Ubi. They are very smart people, probably smarter than me, you or anyone else on this forum. Ai and automation are coming for us all to some degree, whether we like it or not

 

[BLADEMDA]

Both sides abuse their power. Executive orders are almost always unconstitutional in their basis.

Many policies proposed by lawmakers are also unconstitutional as originalists see the US Constitution.

As each decade passes I see more and more Federalism and reach for power. I believe the founders intended a small federal government and more control by individual states.

I realize things have changed over the centuries but liberty and our fundamental rights as given to us by God have not.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The last few decades show the dems to be more fiscally conservative. Reps spend as badly as Dems do but then cut taxes on top of it. Worst example by far was gwb with Medicare part D, unfunded wars and the big regressive, unfunded tax cut.

Moral decay? Pretty sure 45 takes the cake there from either party. Amorality all around.

Richard Branson, Elon musk etc agree with yang on Ubi. They are very smart people, probably smarter than me, you or anyone else on this forum. Ai and automation are coming for us all to some degree, whether we like it or not

The role of government as intended by our founders was not wealth redistribution. I will never agree giving govt money to those who can support themselves is a good idea.

If you want to give interest free loans for re-education programs then by all means do so.

Ask yourself what the proper role of government is for a free society as envisioned by the US Constitution and its founders. These were the smartest people ever to found a society.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The richest one percent can’t save this nation from financial ruin. The path to complete bankruptcy is filled with good intentions and social programs.

All the wealth taxes in the USA won’t make a dent in the amount of money needed for all these great ideas. More likely the rich hide their wealth and avoid taxes while the rest of us watch the value of the US dollar go up in smoke.

 

[deleted643396]

We have all been warned by others from the past that once government starts giving away money to curry voters this republic won’t last very long.

The eventual downfall of this nation will be her lack of fiscal restraint combined with loss of moral compass. Once a nation starts on a road of reckless spending (both parties guilty) along with moral decay (Dems greater than GOP) combined with utter lack of respect for the founding principles the downfall is all but a certainty.

The citizens are even willing to turn to Socialism because the decay has gotten to the point that neither party has lived up to its responsibility in good governance.

These days I’m seeing the extreme wings of both parties run the show while the vast majority of us are forced along for the ride.

What is your definition of moral decay?

 

[deleted643396]

I've listened to him speak on several podcasts. I don't really think the UBI is a bad idea, but where I really disagree with it is:

1) He asserts that people will get off all the different welfare programs because they sign up for the UBI. A condition of the UBI is you forfeit those other programs forever. A lot of those programs confer >$12k/yr. I just don't see people giving that up, even though there are no strings attached to this.

2) There's only one direction this thing is going to go and just further adds to the overall "size" of government. I get that he thinks you'll reduce different departments, I just don't buy it

I might be wrong, but I thought if you were already receiving some kind of welfare program like food stamps that was worth more than the UBI, you would continue to get it instead of the UBI, not in addition to it. It’s been a while since I looked into the details, though. He was on Joe Rogan a few months ago and did a better job explaining it.

The thing I liked about the UBI idea is that it’s not enough to live on, but enough to make a difference in the lives of the middle class. $12,000 is nothing to us, but $12,000 goes a long way for someone making $50,000 a year. It covers daycare expenses and might mean that a working mother might not have to get a second job.

 

[deleted643396]

The role of government as intended by our founders was not wealth redistribution. I will never agree giving govt money to those who can support themselves is a good idea.

If you want to give interest free loans for re-education programs then by all means do so.

Ask yourself what the proper role of government is for a free society as envisioned by the US Constitution and its founders. These were the smartest people ever to found a society.

What do you think the founders would have thought of the way corporate special interest groups have used the government to create economic advantages for themselves at the expense of the citizens of this country?

 

[deleted87051]

What do you think the founders would have thought of the way corporate special interest groups have used the government to create economic advantages for themselves at the expense of the citizens of this country?

I do believe capitalism has gone amok and needs to be reined in. Not just Google, Walmart, Amazon and FB but also in healthcare. Just look at Aetna, Tenet, HCA, Sutter, Northwell, Atrium, etc. It is not good for this country. Back in the 1990’s my group of 250 doctors was the subject of an antitrust investigation by the FTC. Nowadays a 250 doctor group is considered small potatoes. How many does USAP have? 4000+ and who does that benefit? It certainly doesn’t benefit patients or doctors for that matter.

 

[BLADEMDA]

What do you think the founders would have thought of the way corporate special interest groups have used the government to create economic advantages for themselves at the expense of the citizens of this country?

Yes, these are legitimate concerns. Many things have changed and need to be addressed. I urge you to watch the movie on the USA in the late 1800s. We are at another pivotal point in our history similar to when the wealthiest paid NOTHING in income taxes.

Free for prime Members:

America in the Gilded Age and Progressive Era

Step back in time with America in the Gilded Age and Progressive Era. Over six innovative decades marked by economic, political, social, and technological upheavals, the U.S. went from an agrarian, isolationist country to the greatest industrial power and a nascent geopolitical superpower.

 

[vector2]

. A lot of those programs confer >$12k/yr.

Gonna need a citation. A quick googling would beg to differ since only one state (NH) has TANF (welfare) benefits over $1000 a month. On the other end, Mississippi is like $180 a month. Not to mention, the federal portion of all TANF expires after 2 yrs sequential or 5 yrs lifetime...

 

[BLADEMDA]

What is your definition of moral decay?

1. Degradation of the Family Unit- More Single mothers, Higher Divorce rates, late term abortions
2. Faith- Many no longer have faith in higher power or believe in God. They have replaced religion with something else lacking the moral/ethics of personal responsibility for ourselves, our community and those around us.
3. Civility- This is more like wrestling than the politics/discourse from the 1980s when civility ruled. The only other time parties bickered this much was before the Civil War. Our govt. functions more like Idiocracy than Jefferson.
4. Charity- That has been replaced with big govt. and the nanny state. We as individuals no longer bear the responsibility for the poor or homeless. Now, Warren et al must fix the problem.
5. Sexual Deviancy- Now you can literally masturbate in the street or a public restroom with a transgender person and cry fowl if the police or another citizen reports it. No longer is it enough for the bedroom to be a sanctuary but now anything and everything in public is just fine.

Donald Trump isn't the cause of this moral decay he is just a prime example of it.

 

[BLADEMDA]

We Have Become an Idiocracy

And it only took two-and-a-half centuries

time.com

No matter who wins the election, the idiot or the socialist, both are very bad for this country. Socialism will drop our GDP significantly and prolong the recession. Our Govt. is dead broke but one side wants to cut taxes while the other wants to spend twice as much money while doubling our taxes. Clearly, Idiocracy has arrived at our door.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

This is from the Huffington Post a liberal leaning website:

"It used to be that hard work was the American way. If you wanted to lose weight, you knew it took a good diet, exercise and a lot of hard work and dedication. If you wanted to make money and achieve the American dream, you worked hard, learned everything you could about your industry and created the life you wanted.
Those days are over. Quitting and complacency are the norm. In fact, if our ancestors were alive today — the very men and women who came to this country to fight for the chance at a better life — they would be embarrassed, shocked and devastated at what we’ve turned into.
The obesity epidemic continues to spiral out of control. The rich get richer while the poor get poorer. And it’s not just around issues of money and health, but in so many ways the great spirit of going after our dreams and being the best we can be is practically dead, gone and all but forgotten. If it’s not handed to us on a silver platter it doesn’t happen. Hard work, discipline and mental toughness are characteristics seen in such a small percentage of the population."

Self-Responsibility Is Dead!

Self-Responsibility Is Dead!

www.huffpost.com

 

[d9sccr]

I might be wrong, but I thought if you were already receiving some kind of welfare program like food stamps that was worth more than the UBI, you would continue to get it instead of the UBI, not in addition to it. It’s been a while since I looked into the details, though. He was on Joe Rogan a few months ago and did a better job explaining it.

The thing I liked about the UBI idea is that it’s not enough to live on, but enough to make a difference in the lives of the middle class. $12,000 is nothing to us, but $12,000 goes a long way for someone making $50,000 a year. It covers daycare expenses and might mean that a working mother might not have to get a second job.

I listened to the Shapiro, Rogan, and Rubin podcasts with him. I'm pretty sure it was the Shapiro one he said it would replace the other welfare programs and Shapiro asked why anyone would sign up then and the response was "b/c there are no strings". Maybe he's just being a politician. Like I said, I'm dubious about many of his claims.

I don't doubt there's going to be a huge loss of jobs in the near future, I just doubt anyone's ability to predict the future regarding a complete loss of employment. With every other major leap forward, several jobs were lost while others were made. Why is this new revolution any different?

 

[deleted643396]

1. Degradation of the Family Unit- More Single mothers, Higher Divorce rates, late term abortions
2. Faith- Many no longer have faith in higher power or believe in God. They have replaced religion with something else lacking the moral/ethics of personal responsibility for ourselves, our community and those around us.
3. Civility- This is more like wrestling than the politics/discourse from the 1980s when civility ruled. The only other time parties bickered this much was before the Civil War. Our govt. functions more like Idiocracy than Jefferson.
4. Charity- That has been replaced with big govt. and the nanny state. We as individuals no longer bear the responsibility for the poor or homeless. Now, Warren et al must fix the problem.
5. Sexual Deviancy- Now you can literally masturbate in the street or a public restroom with a transgender person and cry fowl if the police or another citizen reports it. No longer is it enough for the bedroom to be a sanctuary but now anything and everything in public is just fine.

Donald Trump isn't the cause of this moral decay he is just a prime example of it.

1. More people struggling to pay bills and make ends meet. Mothers and fathers working multiple jobs. Financial strain is the biggest factor in many divorces. Abortion has nothing to do with it.
2. Religion is your morality compass? Really? I will leave this one alone as the Church continues to pay out for lawsuits for sexual abuse. As an atheist, I take major offense to the idea that religion is responsible for morality.
3. I agree. Civility could be improved. However, the way our current 2 party system is set up, it is advantageous for one side to be outraged over the other side. People with differing viewpoints are seen as enemies. Debate doesn’t exist because it makes people uncomfortable therefore biases are just reinforced.
4. Charity? Do you mean in the sense that corporations or rich can avoid paying taxes and then feel good about it...or even more cynically, use it as advertisements? What is the difference between a corporation’s charity and big government? I don’t see one.
5. What? That’s not even true. You are watching WAY too much Fox News and their obsession with trannies.

You are worried about moral decay and then vote for the guy who said this:

“I moved on her, and I failed. I'll admit it.

I did try and f*ck her. She was married.

And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, "I'll show you where they have some nice furniture." I took her out furniture—I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn't get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything. She's totally changed her look.

I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pu$$y. You can do anything.”

Please, spare me your concern about “moral decay.”

 

[deleted643396]

I do believe capitalism has gone amok and needs to be reined in. Not just Google, Walmart, Amazon and FB but also in healthcare. Just look at Aetna, Tenet, HCA, Sutter, Northwell, Atrium, etc. It is not good for this country. Back in the 1990’s my group of 250 doctors was the subject of an antitrust investigation by the FTC. Nowadays a 250 doctor group is considered small potatoes. How many does USAP have? 4000+ and who does that benefit? It certainly doesn’t benefit patients or doctors for that matter.

I am a capitalist, so are most people. The government is supposed to be the people’s (or worker’s) check on that system. End stage capitalism is not a good thing. Capitalism left to its own unregulated devices results in the consolidation that we are seeing. I think I saw something recently that there are a lot less companies listed on the stock exchanges now. There are many reasons for that, but one is consolidation. There is less competition and it is becoming harder and harder to compete. The result of that has had major ripple effects on our economy with the major endpoint being greater wealth disparity. The problem is the government as it currently exists is doing nothing to mitigate those effects, which in my mind is one of the major functions of government. Instead the government has become a tool by which powerful corporations continue to consolidate.

To put it bluntly, unless government steps in to referee the economy, we continue the march towards consolidation of wealth and what is essentially an aristocracy. History has taught us time and time again that things don’t usually end well for aristocracies.

 

[doctalaughs]

1. More people struggling to pay bills and make ends meet. Mothers and fathers working multiple jobs. Financial strain is the biggest factor in many divorces. Abortion has nothing to do with it.
2. Religion is your morality compass? Really? I will leave this one alone as the Church continues to pay out for lawsuits for sexual abuse. As an atheist, I take major offense to the idea that religion is responsible for morality.
3. I agree. Civility could be improved. However, the way our current 2 party system is set up, it is advantageous for one side to be outraged over the other side. People with differing viewpoints are seen as enemies. Debate doesn’t exist because it makes people uncomfortable therefore biases are just reinforced.
4. Charity? Do you mean in the sense that corporations or rich can avoid paying taxes and then feel good about it...or even more cynically, use it as advertisements? What is the difference between a corporation’s charity and big government? I don’t see one.
5. What? That’s not even true. You are watching WAY too much Fox News and their obsession with trannies.

You are worried about moral decay and then vote for the guy who said this:

“I moved on her, and I failed. I'll admit it.

I did try and f*ck her. She was married.

And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, "I'll show you where they have some nice furniture." I took her out furniture—I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn't get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything. She's totally changed her look.

I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pu$$y. You can do anything.”

Please, spare me your concern about “moral decay.”

I’m pretty sure blade was not saying Trump has any moral high ground- you may want to re-read his post.

Also I agree with him -whether you are an atheist or not -that religion used to be a thing that united communities and was a check on behaviors behaviors bad for society. I’m not particularly religious, but childbirth outside marriage (and divorce) is probably the #1 thing destroying our society. And this is the MAIN thing religious communities mitigated against (perhaps, some would say, the actual reason why religion arose was to stabilize/bind family units). Study after study show that children raised outside of marriages do orders of magnitude worse in every category. They are less productive, more criminal, lower IQ, more addicted to drugs and more likely to have similar offspring, thus perpetuating the cycle.

If you can think of a societal construct that binds communities and preserves family units better than religion I’m all ears though— as religion definitely has it’s downsides (and generates it’s own problems with bigots/ crazies / extremists / sexual deviants).

 

[pgg]

1. Degradation of the Family Unit- More Single mothers, Higher Divorce rates, late term abortions
2. Faith- Many no longer have faith in higher power or believe in God. They have replaced religion with something else lacking the moral/ethics of personal responsibility for ourselves, our community and those around us.
3. Civility- This is more like wrestling than the politics/discourse from the 1980s when civility ruled. The only other time parties bickered this much was before the Civil War. Our govt. functions more like Idiocracy than Jefferson.
4. Charity- That has been replaced with big govt. and the nanny state. We as individuals no longer bear the responsibility for the poor or homeless. Now, Warren et al must fix the problem.
5. Sexual Deviancy- Now you can literally masturbate in the street or a public restroom with a transgender person and cry fowl if the police or another citizen reports it. No longer is it enough for the bedroom to be a sanctuary but now anything and everything in public is just fine.

Donald Trump isn't the cause of this moral decay he is just a prime example of it.

This is firmly in "old man yells at cloud" and "get off my lawn" and "grrr, kids these days!" territory.

1. Abortion rates have been steadily declining since the 1980s. The right's talking point about an epidemic of "partial birth abortions" (as if that was a real thing) is and always has been made-up nonsense.
2. No comment
3. Those around during the civil rights movement / Vietnam era might disagree. The fire's burning hot right now, but it'll die down.
4. Charitable giving tends to follow the stock market - in good economic times, more is given. Annual increases in charitable giving have substantially outpaced inflation over the last 10 years. Givingusa.org reports that from 2017 - 2018, giving increased by 5.2% for individuals, 6.0% for foundations, and 8.0% for corporations. Other organizations report similar numbers.
5. Fowl? Kinky. Perhaps if Republicans weren't so interested in what happened in bedrooms and which ultrasound probe was used in OB/GYN offices, there would be less of a need for public activism.

 

[Splenda88]

A really smart, crooked politician would have not made the same mistake as Trump. That said, a slick Willy type would have just asked The Ukrainian President in private (personally) the same exact thing which Trump did over the phone. I think they all engage in highly unethical behavior from Clinton to Obama to Biden and Trump. The only difference being Trump is an idiot and the Dems hate his guts.

That is assassin comparing trump to Obama when it comes to corruption...

 

[deleted643396]

I’m pretty sure blade was not saying Trump has any moral high ground- you may want to re-read his post.

Also I agree with him -whether you are an atheist or not -that religion used to be a thing that united communities and was a check on behaviors behaviors bad for society. I’m not particularly religious, but childbirth outside marriage (and divorce) is probably the #1 thing destroying our society. And this is the MAIN thing religious communities mitigated against (perhaps, some would say, the actual reason why religion arose was to stabilize/bind family units). Study after study show that children raised outside of marriages do orders of magnitude worse in every category. They are less productive, more criminal, lower IQ, more addicted to drugs and more likely to have similar offspring, thus perpetuating the cycle.

If you can think of a societal construct that binds communities and preserves family units better than religion I’m all ears though— as religion definitely has it’s downsides (and generates it’s own problems with bigots/ crazies / extremists / sexual deviants).

Blade did say the Democrats are more responsible for “moral decay,” which was clearly a way to associate abortion and gay rights as “moral decay.”

Child birth outside of marriage is the #1 thing destroying our society? I thought it was immigration. I tend to think the cause is more economic. Vibrant, small town commerce binds communities pretty well...with or without Sunday mass.

 

[pgg]

Blade did say the Democrats are more responsible for “moral decay,” which was clearly a way to associate abortion and gay rights as “moral decay.”

Child birth outside of marriage is the #1 thing destroying our society? I thought it was immigration. I tend to think the cause is more economic. Vibrant, small town commerce binds communities pretty well...with or without Sunday mass.

It's hard to not look at the correlation between single parents and not think fatherless children are a root cause of the crime, violence, and poverty.

2/3rds of black children are born out of wedlock in the US. Two thirds!! Compare that to about 15% for Asians and 25% for whites. Native Americans are around 50%.

I'm not one to throw around moral judgment lightly, but fathers abandoning their kids to live in poverty is Exhibit A for moral horribleness on a cosmic scale. We can debate the reasons for why these disparities exist, and 100s of years of racism and exploitation are a big part of it, but whatever the root of this moral decay is, it's there.

 

[BoolaHI]

Given that for people like me, an older man of color, many don’t realize that Jim Crow laws were still with us, within this generation. Meaning- in many places you could not get the same public services as the rest of the population, including but not limited to the following: transportation, health services, public universities, voting, who you could marry, just going to a library, public funding for black neighborhoods....etc

 

[Mikkel]

Blade did say the Democrats are more responsible for “moral decay,” which was clearly a way to associate abortion and gay rights as “moral decay.”

Child birth outside of marriage is the #1 thing destroying our society? I thought it was immigration. I tend to think the cause is more economic. Vibrant, small town commerce binds communities pretty well...with or without Sunday mass.

Moral decline:

Back in my day, "bastard child" was considered a bad thing.

 

[Mikkel]

What happened in the 1960s that precipitated moral depravity?

 

[BoolaHI]

Hmmmn, so is this so called “moral decline” taking into account for whom? Just glimmer the window of what the country looked like 50 years ago and it really depends who you were: not for women, not for people of color, not for infants, etc. For a entire host of basic societal metrics, life was not better 50 years ago...

 

[Mikkel]

Hmmmn, so is this so called “moral decline” taking into account for whom? Just glimmer the window of what the country looked like 50 years ago and it really depends who you were: not for infants

Infants had a better chance of not getting murdered 50 years ago.

 

[BoolaHI]

By way of specific examples: African Americans today are much better educated than they were in 1968 but still lag behind whites in overall educational attainment. More than 90 percent of younger African Americans (ages 25 to 29) have graduated from high school, compared with just over half in 1968—which means they’ve nearly closed the gap with white high school graduation rates. They are also more than twice as likely to have a college degree as in 1968 but are still half as likely as young whites to have a college degree.
The substantial progress in educational attainment of African Americans has been accompanied by significant absolute improvements in wages, incomes, wealth, and health since 1968. But black workers still make only 82.5 cents on every dollar earned by white workers, African Americans are 2.5 times as likely to be in poverty as whites, and the median white family.

The inflation-adjusted annual income of the typical African American household increased 42.8 percent between 1968 and 2016, slightly outpacing income growth for the typical white household (36.7 percent). But the typical black household today still receives only 61.6 percent of the annual income received by the typical white household

The share of African Americans living in poverty has declined substantially in the last five decades. Using the official federal poverty measure as a benchmark, over one-third (34.7 percent) of African Americans were in poverty in 1968. Today, the share in poverty is just over one in five (21.4 percent).

The typical black family had almost no wealth in 1968 ($2,467; data refer to 19637). Today, that figure is about six times larger ($17,409).

Over the last five decades, African Americans have experienced enormous improvements in infant mortality rates. The number of deaths per 1,000 live births has fallen from 34.9 in 1968 to 11.4 in the most recent data. Over the same period, whites have also seen dramatic reductions in infant mortality, with rates falling from 18.8 to 4.9 by the same measure.

African Americans’ life expectancy at birth has also increased substantially (up 11.5 years) between 1968 and today, outpacing the increase for whites (up 7.5 years).

 

[BoolaHI]

Infants had a better chance of not getting murdered 50 years ago.

And black infant mortality 50-60 years ago....crickets?